Obama's health-care news conference

[resonance]

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstate...atures_box_main

[celestia]

I didn't think he was defensive. The plan sounds based on common sense and without politics should be doable. Dontcha think?

[Littlewing]

I watched his conference here in the UK (at stupid o'clock) but I couldn't take my eyes off him. He's a very good speaker, and I think I'm a little bit in love with him!

It's about time you guys got better healthcare, and I really hope he gets the bill through. I really like the fact that he's trying so hard to make positive changes. You guys have GOT to be feeling a bit more positive now, haven't you? I know it's changed so many peoples' perception of the States now. George Dubya was a bit of a PR disaster for you LOL!

[beetle]

I watched his conference here in the UK (at stupid o'clock) but I couldn't take my eyes off him. He's a very good speaker, and I think I'm a little bit in love with him!

It's about time you guys got better healthcare, and I really hope he gets the bill through. I really like the fact that he's trying so hard to make positive changes. You guys have GOT to be feeling a bit more positive now, haven't you? I know it's changed so many peoples' perception of the States now. George Dubya was a bit of a PR disaster for you LOL!

We defniately have to do something to change our healthcare system in this country. But some would rather just keep things the way they are and let it destroy the country. Some don't want to pass it purely due to politics. Some scream and cry about the costs to their children and grandchildren and I say, you better be more worried about the cost of doing nothing. When junior dies because he can't afford a medical proceedure, I don't think that's a better future.

I might not like all the proposals they're coming up with but I do realize something needs to be done and I understand why it needs to be done quickly. There are some in congress who are just trying to defeat this in order to defeat Obama. Country first, my ass!

Then there are those who'd have us believe that the kind of healthcare you have and those in Canada have are nothing but horror stories and we'd have people dying all over the place while waiting for treatment. You ought to see the propaganda commercials that the opposition is running. They're trying to make the healthcare system in the UK look barbaric or something. Whatever. But people by into this shit.

It's not like we're trying to come up with a system exactly like anyplace else anyway. We're trying to come up with something that works for us. Cause clearly what we got ain't working... at least not for everyone. If you're rich then a lot of things work out for you in this country. Otherwise the hell with ya.

</rant>

[AirMarshall]

GAH, I lost a thoughtful post that was brilliant witty and charming. sigh.

PLAN? WHAT PLAN? I'm still waiting to see a reasonable detailed, complete plan with a balance costing showing taxes and costs.

Obama has been giving us platitudes and unjustified costs and benefits for over a year now.

A competent or honest HHS staff should be able to develop an detailed high level plan in a couple weeks. This is administration 101 folks.

BTW, What happened to the Single Payer plan? I want to see the same level of detail so we can have a national debate and compare the two.

I'm getting tired of being told "Pass a bill by August and we'll sort out the details later. Trust me".

a.m.

[Littlewing]

You ought to see the propaganda commercials that the opposition is running. They're trying to make the healthcare system in the UK look barbaric or something. Whatever. But people by into this shit.

It's not like we're trying to come up with a system exactly like anyplace else anyway. We're trying to come up with something that works for us. Cause clearly what we got ain't working... at least not for everyone. If you're rich then a lot of things work out for you in this country. Otherwise the hell with ya.

</rant>

Well, I have to say, that here in the UK we bitch about the NHS as well, but to be honest, they saved my life when I was 4 due to complications with my kidneys. They fixed my arm when I broke it rather spectacularly. And since I finally realised what could be wrong with me and saw my GP and was referred to the Mental Health Team, I have to do nothing but sing their praises. The staff at the MHT have also saved my life. So really, although the NHS is by no means perfect, it is certainly better than nothing.

I also have a private health plan at work, but the firm pays for that. It paid for my knee surgery two years ago within 3 weeks of being seen by the surgeon, and I would have had to wait a much longer time on the NHS, plus it would have been a further drain on their resources, so I figure that the insurance will pay for anything particularly large, thus I'm not helping the NHS go into further deficit.

Like I said, it's not perfect, but I do think it's rather fantastic that we have it. I have no idea how I would afford my meds otherwise.

I hope things get sorted out for people on low income. Not having adequate healthcare must be so worrying.

[rowen]

I also have a private health plan at work

This is something that those propaganda ads fail to mention. You can obtain private insurance in countries with public healthcare. You can see private doctors. It isn't all doom and gloom.

I think that a lot (not all of course) Americans feel that a public health plan is like giving "a free lunch" to those who cannot obtain coverage. It's not rational, but I think that's how some uninformed people see it.

I am happy that a politician is making some sort of effort to extend coverage to those who cannot obtain it. Like AM, though, I am concerned that this isn't as well thought out as it could be.

[mika]

I watched his conference here in the UK (at stupid o'clock) but I couldn't take my eyes off him. He's a very good speaker, and I think I'm a little bit in love with him!

It's about time you guys got better healthcare, and I really hope he gets the bill through. I really like the fact that he's trying so hard to make positive changes. You guys have GOT to be feeling a bit more positive now, haven't you? I know it's changed so many peoples' perception of the States now. George Dubya was a bit of a PR disaster for you LOL!

I know people in the UK who very much dislike the healthcare system there. Do you feel the same way? Just wondering.

[mika]

There are some in congress who are just trying to defeat this in order to defeat Obama

This isn't true.

[Littlewing]

I know people in the UK who very much dislike the healthcare system there. Do you feel the same way? Just wondering.

I did a post a couple of posts above yours about my views on the NHS, just scroll up as I don't want to repeat myself - I do that enough already!

[beetle]

There are some in congress who are just trying to defeat this in order to defeat Obama

This isn't true.

Yes, it is. There are some... not all. But we can agree to disagree.

[mika]

I know people in the UK who very much dislike the healthcare system there. Do you feel the same way? Just wondering.

I did a post a couple of posts above yours about my views on the NHS, just scroll up as I don't want to repeat myself - I do that enough already!

Wow, okay. Forget it.

[Littlewing]

Mika, I think you took my post in the wrong way. I just didn't want to type it all again because I'm tired. When I said I repeat myself enough already, I meant that I ramble. I just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding in the interest of harmony here on the boards.

LW

[mika]

Mika, I think you took my post in the wrong way. I just didn't want to type it all again because I'm tired. When I said I repeat myself enough already, I meant that I ramble. I just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding in the interest of harmony here on the boards. LW

Yup. Definitely misunderstanding there. I was all looking back to where you repeated yourself before. I'm glad you cleared that up. Phew!

[politicat]

Ahem.

I could go on and on about this. But I do know that I don't know what is or is not a mental health or physical (always mental health related) emergency, because I don't have the option of going to the emergency room under almost any circumstances.

Therefore I don't really know how ill, or not ill, I am.

Although one time I did have a bike accident when I was plastered. This is still mental health related because I chose to go out on my bike plastered hoping something would happen. No comments please.

Well, I did end up unconscious in the middle of a very unbusy street. I don't remember much of this, but I DO remember BEGGING the guys who found me not to call an ambulance. Abject BEGGING because I knew I would have to pay. This is almost all I remember of this.

They did call an ambulance, and I did have to pay. 700 or 900 dollars, something like that. Even in the ambulance I was begging them not to bill me.

[crazynotstupid]

There are some in congress who are just trying to defeat this in order to defeat Obama

This isn't true.

Yes, it is. There are some... not all. But we can agree to disagree.

Either name them...or shut up. Generalizations and accusations are the weapons and hiding places of those who have no true arguments or facts at hand and merely wish to throw dogshit at those they disagree with. Well I smell shit and I'm calling you out on this one.

[crazynotstupid]

Kinda following up on A.M.'s post...man, I see all this bs coming outta the White House and some on Capitol Hill, gotta pass this NOW and shit...

Why? I ask you, why? The problems started decades ago--insurance at work offered to skirt wage controls, Medicare and Medicaid dictating what doctors get paid and for what (and how they do paperwork) (not to mention other insurance co.'s paperwork), liberals blocking any reform on medical malpractice suits (wonder what would happen there under a guv'mint plan...).

And they expect us to buy the idea that all that SHIT can be undone/fixed/turned around by...August???

If the system is truly so broken, as Mr. Obama says, then he should be willing to take the time to truly fix it, and to figure out a way to pay for it that doesn't soak the rich (and they have truly been getting soaked, leave your fucking class warfare out of this) and hurt everyone else and drive private insurance out of business (great! kill MORE jobs!). Not to mention that the current fraud rate in Medicaid/Medicare is, oh, 3-4% (what, $60-72 billion? Shit, even my old eye doc got tagged for fraud), gee, imagine how that could be by adding tens of millions to the rolls...

I will tell you what: There is no One Universal Health System. People will always be getting screwed. What Obama seems to want is for everyone to be getting dragged down to the same level. Well, fuck him--hell keep getting his presidential level care even after he gets out of office cuz he'll still be rich and he'll spit on the poor public schmuck stuck in public care hell. Me, I want to keep my doctors, and if that means keeping this fucked-up system we got?

Fuck you, fuck 40-whatever-million uninsured (however you gotta subtract all the illegals outta there) and fuck all the do-gooders. It's all about me. And if you don't like them apples? There's a shitload of mofo's out there that are thinking the same fucking thing.

[resonance]

Lose his biggest domestic battle in his first year in office and the Republicans can “break him” and his broader agenda, according to Jim DeMint, a Republican senator from South Carolina. Mr DeMint says that health care is Mr Obama’s Waterloo.

(from the article)

From Senator DeMint's website:

DeMint Responds to Obama's Takeover of Health Care

In a speech on the Senate floor Monday, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) voiced his opposition to President Obama's planned government takeover of Americans' health care.

Senator DeMint doesn't explicitly say "I oppose this bill because I want to 'break' Obama", but I'm reasonably certain he's mentally connecting the two.

Anyway, that's one.

Edit: here's a headline from his blog:

DeMint on FOX with Cavuto: This is a Showdown Over the Principles of Freedom"

That sounds broader than healthcare.

[Velvet Elvis]

I think it's all bullshit if it's not single payer.

[mika]

I hate it's becoming a bi-partisan issue. Can't we just focus on the healthcare reform without it being a battle of the parties?

[Littlewing]

I hate it's becoming a bi-partisan issue. Can't we just focus on the healthcare reform without it being a battle of the parties?

Amen to that. I think everyone agrees that there should be better healthcare. It would be a shame for it to turn into a slanging match here on CB. We're better than that, people. I have enough of the political crap here in England (which, let me tell you, sucks butt), it's all about point-scoring, when it should be about the people and the public that put the bastards in office in the first place.

And that's my lot.

LW

[december_brigette]

CNS wrote:

Fuck you, fuck 40-whatever-million uninsured (however you gotta subtract all the illegals outta there) and fuck all the do-gooders. It's all about me. And if you don't like them apples? There's a shitload of mofo's out there that are thinking the same fucking thing.

I love you. and im not saying that to brighten your day. Im saying that because this is truly one of your best posts yet. im all lovey-dovey eyed.

db

[Velvet Elvis]

Republicans don't want healthcare reform. The whole idea of the Republican party is that GOVERNMENT CAN'T HELP YOU. There's a famous Ronald Reagan quote along the lines of "the scariest words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'." Republicans know that if any kind of health care reform passes and is successful it will prove one of their overriding philosophies wrong.

You see Democrats believe that government can and should help people. Republican believe that government can't and shouldn't. Effective universal health care would prove the republicans wrong so can't let effective universal health care pass at any cost. They must do whatever they can to stop it.

[nalgas]

Republicans don't want healthcare reform. The whole idea of the Republican party is that GOVERNMENT CAN'T HELP YOU. There's a famous Ronald Reagan quote along the lines of "the scariest words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'." Republicans know that if any kind of health care reform passes and is successful it will prove one of their overriding philosophies wrong.

You see Democrats believe that government can and should help people. Republican believe that government can't and shouldn't. Effective universal health care would prove the republicans wrong so can't let effective universal health care pass at any cost. They must do whatever they can to stop it.

That may have been true in the past, but it's been quite some time since the Republican party leadership and even the word "conservative" itself have been hijacked by people who seem to want just as large a government spending just as much money as their opponents. The difference these days (e.g. the past ten years or so vs. back then) between the Democrats and Republicans (the mainstream parties/politicians themselves) doesn't seem anymore like it's how much government they want, just which particular things they want it to do. "The government can't/shouldn't help/interfere with people" is more like Libertarian territory these days.

[mika]

How about this: Our government has just about pissed me off to no end. Ugghhhh!

[crazynotstupid]

Nalgas has it absolutely right. For the most part there are few difference for the majority of Democrats and Republicans. Mostly they play to the center with noises to the base just to get elected and pass whatever the hell they want with earmarks to special interests and get reelected til they decide to retire, with few exceptions (such as getting caught having an affair or a major scandal or going to prison...).

Nobody cares in a governement that has any fiscal responsibility. It's all "somebody else's money" and it's all endless. You think this shit is all free. If the governemnt can't pay for veteran's healthcare, if it can't pay for Indian's healthcare (guaranteed by decades old treaties), than how the FUCK is it supposed to pay for the healthcare of everybody else, especially when it's trillions of dollars down anyway, everybody's losing their jobs and thereofre not paying the taxes the gov't needs?

There's not even enough doctors to treat the people that there are out there. Not enough gp's, not enough nurses for all the geezers that are gonna be heading towards the nursing homes... and how much incentive do we give people to enter these fields, with low pay, high legal risk, and little respect?

I just don't understand this pie-in-the-sky bullshit. I really can't.

[Inspired_Neurosis]

He's a very good speaker, and I think I'm a little bit in love with him!

Am I the only person on earth who notices that Obama's diction is atrocious? He has a bland, monotonous drawl, he speaks unbearably slowly, his vocabulary is unimpressive, and he says "um" every other second. He's anything but quick-witted, and his public speaking spells this out pretty clearly. Did Dubya set the bar so low that Americans are willing to worship anyone who can occasionally form a coherent sentence?

Now Christopher Hitchens--there is a great orator.

[Inspired_Neurosis]

Get this: you'll lose freedom to choose what's in your plan, you won't be rewarded for healthy living, you won't get to choose high-deductible coverage, you won't be able to keep your existing plan, and you won't be able to choose your doctors.

Not only that, but the plan covers abortions...I have a feeling that this is going to piss off a lot of people. Obama is really itching to be a one-termer.

[Stickler]

Yep, I'm still on board to move to Canada. Oh Canada. CNS, you can buy our firearms at discount when we go...I'll miss my almost-antique .38 s&w pistol, and I'm sure my wife will miss her Ruger M-15 semi-auto ranch rifle; but I won't miss worrying if I'm going to croak from an easily-treatable condition, or end up losing the house I someday hope to purchase due to med bills. Yes, I'll pay more taxes. I'm o.k. with that.

I think our culture of profound individualism is a problem, but that's another topic.

Here's a scary bedtime story, kiddies:

http://www.progressivefox.com/?p=721

Look, Since it looks like the gov isn't really competent enough to do single-payer, can they at least offer me insurance that doesn't cost $635 a month? That's how much the Texas Risk Pool costs, and that's over half my income. I can't do it. I can't work two jobs until after I get surgery for my sinuses; the last time I pulled fifty hours my sinus infection exploded. I could do $250 and be able to pay rent, therefore move out of Chez Mom's. I have yet to figure out how I'll buy meds when I go full-time to college: student loans? Shit, I don't know. But I'm going, anyway. Poverty sucks. Plus, once I've gotten a degree, Canada will like me more. Oh, Canada.

Also: when I was buying my meds domestically, legal-style, I was spending over $600 a month. Kept having to bum money from mom (I was only making 7$ an hour at the time). Then I went to an online, illegal source, where I get my asthma meds-most of which are made by the same manufacturers for what works out to about $200 a month. (Clearly, the manufacturers are still making a profit on these discounted drugs, else they would not exist). Now that I quit immunotherapy, I am actually building my balance back.

I'm finishing up a course of antibiotics that would have cost around $700. Praise Goddess for samples.

If we don't start regulating med costs in this country, we really won't be able to afford Obamacare or damn near anything else.

[Kyzr]

I think I'm opting for France. It's the best rated health care, by citizens and the WHO, on the planet. Italy ranks 2nd. The US is rated 37th. Canada is rated 30th.

If the quality of health care is so poor under a socialized system, why is the life expectancy of Europe so much higher? I think, a couple things.... yes, the problem of no insurance and the cost of health care, which has been the major issue discussed in the media. And I really do believe this is an enormous issue. But, less discussed (although getting more attention recently) is the fact that Europeans, by and large, walk more, bike more, get more physical activity in their daily lives. (One of the same reasons why places like NYC have a lower incidence of obesity.) For the most part, Europeans also have healthier diets, especially as far as portion size goes. That's not to say that there aren't obese people in Europe...there certainly are. And I know the cost of living is higher, but it seems worth it for quality and length of life.

We have become such a culture of overindulgence and consumption. Our problems go beyond our health coverage issues.

The US is the 9th fattest country in the world with 74% of our population being overweight or obese...with France listed as 128th with 40% and Italy at 111th with 45%. These are not countries with the same level of poverty and hunger issues like India or Ethiopia toward the bottom of the list with 16% and 5% respectively.

And it's expensive to eat well. It's expensive to eat the foods that are healthy for you, which is why low income people/families are more likely to be overweight or obese. Crap food is cheap.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I just think this a much larger problem, as if it could get any bigger, than is being appropriately addressed.

[Stickler]

I don't think that necessarily qualifies as a threadjack, Kyzr. But I take a broad, interconnected view on everything.

Cheap, starchy, greasy food is heavily subsidized in the U.S, while veggies are not. Cheap, fatty meat is a result of corn subsidies, which make feedlots tenable. Think also government cheese. It is a USDA program to buy surplus dairy and keep the dairy farmers afloat. So the diet we eat is also part of government policy.

The diet promoted for poor people actively works against their health-which the government then has to subsidize. This only makes sense for big agribusiness and big pharma, not for the government or taxpayers.

Restaurants know that starch/grease/salt bring in more customers, so that's what they're going to serve. You really have to cook your own food the vast majority of the time to eat healthy. The education system (there's that government again) doesn't teach people how to eat right; instead it allows marketing in the classroom and the lunchroom.

T.V. promotes overconsumption and underactivity. It's a big energy sucker.

(France seems like a nice country, but I like wide open spaces with lots of animals in them, and Canada has a good supply of that. O.K.,that was off-topic)

[Kyzr]

You're so right, Stickler - read my mind.

(Except for the Canada part...though I'd definitely be willing to make the move. Canada rocks.)

[Velvet Elvis]

Get this: you'll lose freedom to choose what's in your plan, you won't be rewarded for healthy living, you won't get to choose high-deductible coverage, you won't be able to keep your existing plan, and you won't be able to choose your doctors.

Not only that, but the plan covers abortions...I have a feeling that this is going to piss off a lot of people. Obama is really itching to be a one-termer.

That's just wrong

You'll have a selection of plans to chose from, including your old one in obama's proposed plan. God only knows what's going to come out of congress though.

[Kyzr]

Get this: you'll lose freedom to choose what's in your plan, you won't be rewarded for healthy living, you won't get to choose high-deductible coverage, you won't be able to keep your existing plan, and you won't be able to choose your doctors.

Not only that, but the plan covers abortions...I have a feeling that this is going to piss off a lot of people. Obama is really itching to be a one-termer.

That's just wrong

You'll have a selection of plans to chose from, including your old one in obama's proposed plan. God only knows what's going to come out of congress though.

VE is absolutely correct. IN, I'm not sure where you got that information. As, VE said, it's impossible to know at this point what will come out of congress, but under Obama's plan, you're able to keep your current coverage should you choose to do so.

And for those of you who oppose any gov't health care at all.... are you planning on opting out of Medicare?

[mika]

why is the life expectancy of Europe so much higher?

I am confused by that thread. You started with their healthcare plans and then you started adding their diet, quality of life, genes, etc. I think those are the main reasons they live longer. Not so much the healthcare really. It's probably rated better because the costs are low. Maybe this is because they are more healthy of people and don't utilize it so much. I don't know, just a thought. to add: socialism may work in one country but not work in the other. So we need to stop comparing ourselves to countries with a socialist government. While it may work well in one country, it might not work in ours, a country with totally different background and history. Our country is very complicated. Not even close to any other.

AND LET'S JUST SAY THIS: OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS SCREWED AND NO MATTER WHAT OBAMA TRIES TO DO, IT IS NOT GOING TO GET BETTER. THE END.

[resonance]

You think this shit is all free.

I think I pay for it with my tax money.

[buddha443556]

Since I'm already on government medical assistance, doesn't matter to me a whole hell of a lot. Not sure why some of you are so eager to join me. I tried to see a doctor today and failed. I'll get up tomorrow and try again. It's impossible to schedule these appointments at my health home, so I call up for a walk-in which are limited. I tried the mental health side too. They changed their walk-in procedure and didn't tell me so I couldn't get one. Just need to get my prescription, for hydroxyzine, renewed and adjusted. Probably going to run out of Invega before it comes in, though I did get on the patient assistance program. Had a heck of a time getting on that and they were going to charge me for that. Of course, having a charge is how everything got screwed up last time when they wouldn't let me see my pdoc. That's another bucket of worms. Health and Human Services contract with local medical providers and they don't get along sometimes. On the medical side HHS has offices at the medical centers however on the mental side they don't. It's like pulling nails with a fork, trying to get anything done. I have spinal stenosis and I can't get MRI's because nothing showed on the x-rays. I've really been thinking about stepping in front of a bus ... oh not to commit suicide, for the MRI's! I'll keep fighting them but it's a full time job and I'm not in the best of health as it is.

[mika]

Since I'm already on government medical assistance, doesn't matter to me a whole hell of a lot. Not sure why some of you are so eager to join me. I tried to see a doctor today and failed. I'll get up tomorrow and try again. It's impossible to schedule these appointments at my health home, so I call up for a walk-in which are limited. I tried the mental health side too. They changed their walk-in procedure and didn't tell me so I couldn't get one. Just need to get my prescription, for hydroxyzine, renewed and adjusted. Probably going to run out of Invega before it comes in, though I did get on the patient assistance program. Had a heck of a time getting on that and they were going to charge me for that. Of course, having a charge is how everything got screwed up last time when they wouldn't let me see my pdoc. That's another bucket of worms. Health and Human Services contract with local medical providers and they don't get along sometimes. On the medical side HHS has offices at the medical centers however on the mental side they don't. It's like pulling nails with a fork, trying to get anything done. I have spinal stenosis and I can't get MRI's because nothing showed on the x-rays. I've really been thinking about stepping in front of a bus ... oh not to commit suicide, for the MRI's! I'll keep fighting them but it's a full time job and I'm not in the best of health as it is.

very true

[Kyzr]

IN: Shawn Tully is a conservative columnist. He's a writer touted by people like Rush Limbaugh. Of course he's going to argue against Obama and the current congress.

In the article you have cited, he claims he's discussing his views of a potential congressional bill, not Obama's plan necessarily.

There isn't a final bill out there yet.

[crazynotstupid]

One thing I like about my insurance: I can pick up the phone and talk to a human. No computers. Ever. Got a problem with a bill? I can bitch it out. Little bureaucracy. (if anyone wants to argue that insurance is gonna try to screw you over, than tell me that gov't won't...my dad could tell you stories about the VA...)

Gov't? Well i never did have to call Medicaid about anything for my ex. But that's cuz you just give the providers whatever, up to $5. Providing you can find someone to take it... Gawd I'd hate to think about calling anyone there, the SSA was bad enough. Stories though? Guess I never mentioned that back in the day I had a job working in a unit for state gov that processed apps for eligibility for the state-run (at the time) mental health services program. Yeah, i got to see all the fun from the inside...well shit I've got 8 years of gov't work under the belt now. I know how the game is played, and that's in one of the smallest states in the Union; fuck me if I can imagine how fucked up uit'll all be if the feds get their hands on shit.

I don't want in that system. When I lost my COBRA a few years back and was switching to the state high-risk pool a stupid fuckup nearly killed me AND got me on the 12 month pre-existing no coverage shitlist. If that can happen in Montana, what the FUCK do you think's gonna happen in D.C.???

They talk about all these great plans and all the great things that will happen but HOW the FUCK are they gonna implement them without crushing everything as we know it??? I don't get it. It's like I'm going to build a new house where mine now sits but without tearing this one down first, just cuz I think I live in a shithole. You've gotta plan everything before you start anything. That means costs, structure, implementation, personnel. I haven't seen it and I know I won't. If passed I'm afraid it's gonna be one of the biggest disasters we've ever had.