Is anyone on 5-HTP plus SSRI?

[sunburnt22]

Want to know if anyone has added 5-HTP to their SSRI therapy? And has it made a difference? I know this is potentially dangerous, but it is done at times under the care of a psychiatrist, or naturopath, because some still don't have nearly enough serotonin with just SSRIs...

[Velvet Elvis]

No.

Just No.

What part of serotonin syndrome is potential fatal do you not understand?

I'd like some evidence that it's done under the guidance of anyone who isn't a quack, which would include all naturopaths.

[Swamp56]

I don't even think there's been any actual research done on the effectiveness of it as an antidepressant. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mayteana]

That... is a kinda dumb idea.

~ May

[nonsum]

this just sounds like serotonin syndrome waiting to happen. if your SSRI is not working, maybe it's time to try something different. there are lots of other options. I'm sure you can find something pharmaceutical grade that will work. it just takes time.but adding 5HTP is generally a bad idea. for a number of reasons. 1. concentrations are not standardized. so on batch you could be fine but the next batch could be significantly more potent and send you over the edge into serotonin syndrome. 2. naturapaths are not doctors. they have not been to medical school. they do not have enough knowledge about the working of the body to make properly informed decisions and recommendations. especially when it comes to psych stuff. 3. as stated, serotonin syndrome can be fatal.

please be careful.

[sorrel]

some still don't have nearly enough serotonin with just SSRIs

You know there is no evidence that depression is a "serotonin deficiency," don't you? The effect of antidepressants is likely exerted through other means, like neurogenesis. There isn't really any such phenomenon as not having enough serotonin.

[beetle]

some still don't have nearly enough serotonin with just SSRIs

You know there is no evidence that depression is a "serotonin deficiency," don't you? The effect of antidepressants is likely exerted through other means, like neurogenesis. There isn't really any such phenomenon as not having enough serotonin.

Really? I mean I know that the whole chemical imbalance thing is just a theory but I thought research had proven that some folks do have low(er) levels of serotonin and that sometimes just happens to exist along side MI.

Just something interesting that pops up when I google "low serotonin"

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/28/17/4528

[notfred]

Really? I mean I know that the whole chemical imbalance thing is just a theory but I thought research had proven that some folks do have low(er) levels of serotonin and that sometimes just happens to exist along side MI.

Yes, really.

nf

[beetle]

Really? I mean I know that the whole chemical imbalance thing is just a theory but I thought research had proven that some folks do have low(er) levels of serotonin and that sometimes just happens to exist along side MI.

Yes, really.

nf

Huh...well, I guess all that stuff ya hear about is a bunch of witch doctorin.

[cairn]

Yes, really.

No. Really.

This whole, "There is no evidence linking serotonin levels to depression or mental illness," has taken on as much life as the original chemical imbalance of the brain is linked to depression idea, and people are pushing it with as much an agenda as is attributed to the chemical imbalance crowd.

Read Listening to Prozac, or at least Google <<"listening to prozac" monkey >> to get the background. Jamison's book on suicide also goes into the link between neurotransmitters and depression. The original drug found to help with depression was developed for tuberculosis. It was only after that it was noticed what an improvement to mood it can be. Studying its effects on neurotransmitters (it was the original MAOI) led to new, safer and more effective a/d's.

No one understands how the brain works but that there is a link between brain chemistry and its operation is clear but it's tremendously complicated.

Edited October 26, 2009 by cairn

[sorrel]

I'm not trying to imply that neurotransmitters definitively play no role in mental illness. But no knowledgeable doctor would characterize depression as a "serotonin deficiency state" that just requires more serotonin to fix it. Serotonin deficiency is not a recognized phenomenon, and depression would be a lot easier to treat if that were the sole or primary issue.

It's all multifactorial and mostly unknown.

[cairn]

... and mostly unknown.

And practically entirely.

I meant no disrespect to previous posters. There's just so much that isn't known.

[shadowswa11ow]

I took 5-HTP, Lexapro, and Tramadol at the same time without any problems at all.

Do I recommend it? HELL NO

I had one knowledgeable doctor who told me to take all of them together, and he kept track of my serum serotonin levels... which remained incredibly low despite me taking upwards of 300mg 5-HTP.

But DON'T EVER DO THIS YOURSELF IT IS A BAD IDEA AND SEROTONIN SYNDROME IS SERIOUS AND NO JOKING MATTER.

[remedy48]

Want to know if anyone has added 5-HTP to their SSRI therapy? And has it made a difference? I know this is potentially dangerous, but it is done at times under the care of a psychiatrist, or naturopath, because some still don't have nearly enough serotonin with just SSRIs...

Yes I do take celexa and 5-htp myself. I've found that it is a good combination for depression. The only thing to worry about is whether it turns you manic. Luckily myself I don't get manic.

[shadowswa11ow]

Uhh... there's also the small matter of Serotonin Syndrome, which can be DEADLY, to consider.

[notfred]

Yes, really.

No. Really.

This whole, "There is no evidence linking serotonin levels to depression or mental illness," has taken on as much life as the original chemical imbalance of the brain is linked to depression idea, and people are pushing it with as much an agenda as is attributed to the chemical imbalance crowd.

Read Listening to Prozac, or at least Google <<"listening to prozac" monkey >> to get the background. Jamison's book on suicide also goes into the link between neurotransmitters and depression. The original drug found to help with depression was developed for tuberculosis. It was only after that it was noticed what an improvement to mood it can be. Studying its effects on neurotransmitters (it was the original MAOI) led to new, safer and more effective a/d's.

No one understands how the brain works but that there is a link between brain chemistry and its operation is clear but it's tremendously complicated.

I was refering to the "serotonin deficiency" theory of sorts. I do not question neurotransmitters play a part in MI.

nf

[Guest Jpoker27]

this just sounds like serotonin syndrome waiting to happen. if your SSRI is not working, maybe it's time to try something different. there are lots of other options. I'm sure you can find something pharmaceutical grade that will work. it just takes time.but adding 5HTP is generally a bad idea. for a number of reasons. 1. concentrations are not standardized. so on batch you could be fine but the next batch could be significantly more potent and send you over the edge into serotonin syndrome. 2. naturapaths are not doctors. they have not been to medical school. they do not have enough knowledge about the working of the body to make properly informed decisions and recommendations. especially when it comes to psych stuff. 3. as stated, serotonin syndrome can be fatal.

please be careful.

i took SSRI's with 5-HTP for years, dont listen to these guys

[vanderk]

Calling all admins/mods. Would someone please put a fork in this thread. I don't doubt that someone can "safely" take 5Htp with an SSRI (crimeny, maybe five SSRI's). But still, it's stooooooopid. While you're at it, try mixing a benzo, barbiturate and vodka cocktail and post your results here. [Remember: don't try this at home...these are trained professionals]. Just remember to get yourself fitted for a dirt suit in advance.

[null0trooper]

Calling all admins/mods. Would someone please put a fork in this thread.

I'll agree with dianthus on this, and add a couple more reasons.

The anonymous guest (There is no registered jpoker27) post above yours is a perfect example of how easy it is for some people to lie to you on the internet. Wouldn't it be absolutely hilarious if some nutter took that bullshit advice and got sick or even removed herself from the gene pool?

Of course not. But obviously someone thinks it's funny enough to try.

Also, if you didn't understand why it is a bad idea (Yes, it's discussed from the start, but many people do not read the entire thread) then it would be worthwhile for your safety to try to make the reasons a little more clear.

[Guest Scott Seguin]

You're all a bunch of morons. There are people who have taken both an ssri and 5-htp with no serotonin syndrome. Articles by experts about OCD patients and others who have tried the combo. Some people still take the older MAOI's, and they can cause fatal hypertensive crises. Antipsychotics have the potential for permanent tardive dyskinesia or neuroleptic malignant syndrome, which can also be fatal. Is it worth the risk? That's for a patient and doctor to decide, not a bunch of nitwits who think they know something about the brain because they've read a little bit. I just took the combination of zoloft 100 mg and 5-htp 200 mg for the past two days. Where's the serotonin syndrome? I'm not saying it's not a risk, but the medical establishment errs on the side of safety, rather than odds. Lamictal can cause a life threating rash. Is anyone's life actually threatened? Hardly anyone. I say go for it. Live dangerously. And don't listen to these sissies. Bunch of old ladies.

[crtclms]

Scott is right. I once dropped 10 hits of acid at the same time. That very same year, I got into my first choice law school. Obviously, if you drop 10 hits of acid at once, you, too, will get into a first tier law school. Probably. Sure, it's risky. Old ladies. But don't you want to read about Civil Procedure? Life is for living!

Moron, I mean Scott, you are demonstrating a logical fallacy. You are confusing correlation ("hey, nothing bad happened to me!") with causation ("I'm am doing great because of this OTC supplement!").

The second assertion is a rather extraordinary claim, and as such, requires actual peer reviewed evidence. Not your puerile "dare" to throw sanity to the winds.

Hey guys, two people on this thread have said *they* took it, and nothing bad happened to *them!* Irrefutable Proof! Why worry about stupid things like double blind studies when we have these scientific geniuses to cut corners with their anecdotes?

Put your dick away Scott, it isn't that impressive.

[Brianarmstro]

The only thing that is going to give you serotonin syndrome is combining an SSRI with a drug like MDMA, which FLOODS your brain with serotonin. 5-HTP does not flood your brain with serotonin, or else it would be made illegal because everyone would be abusing it! 5-HTP is converted to serotonin, without 5-HTP your brain will not be able to produce anymore serotonin - hence why most people on anti depressants find them to be ineffective once they have built up a tolerance.  

[DammitJanet]

9 hours ago, Brianarmstro said:

The only thing that is going to give you serotonin syndrome is combining an SSRI with a drug like MDMA, which FLOODS your brain with serotonin. 5-HTP does not flood your brain with serotonin, or else it would be made illegal because everyone would be abusing it! 5-HTP is converted to serotonin, without 5-HTP your brain will not be able to produce anymore serotonin - hence why most people on anti depressants find them to be ineffective once they have built up a tolerance.  

Absolute and utter garbage. I hear the word moron coming around again. Well, I thank you for taking my mind off of my fucked up life for 20 seconds, sir. Never too much eye rolling for me. 

[notloki]

7 hours ago, DammitJanet said:

Absolute and utter garbage. I hear the word moron coming around again. Well, I thank you for taking my mind off of my fucked up life for 20 seconds, sir. Never too much eye rolling for me. 

Now now. He's got it mostly right, 1) MDMA + SSRI does = Serotonin Syndrome, 2) HTP-5 is used by the body to make Serotonin, that's a true statement. 3)The other stuff about HTP-5 is also true. I would quibble with "hence why most people on antidepressants find them to be ineffective once they have built up a tolerance" but the post is pretty well on point. 

You appear not to know when it is appropriate to roll your eyes. Not his post.

[DammitJanet]

1 minute ago, notloki said:

Now now. He's got it mostly right, 1) MDMA + SSRI does = Serotonin Syndrome, 2) HTP-5 is used by the body to make Serotonin, that's a true statement. 3)The other stuff about HTP-5 is also true. I would quibble with "hence why most people on antidepressants find them to be ineffective once they have built up a tolerance" but the post is pretty well on point. 

You appear not to know when it is appropriate to roll your eyes. Not his post.

That’s one opinion. 

[Catwoman]

I would not take the risk and some one does want to combine 5HTP and an anti-depressant, he should do this under supervision of his psychiatrist. 

But this is an old topic anyway :-)

[notloki]

14 hours ago, DammitJanet said:

That’s one opinion. 

No. It is the opinion of Dr. Gilman, the world expert on Serotonin Syndrome. His web page:

https://psychotropical.info/

[DammitJanet]

10 minutes ago, notloki said:

No. It is the opinion of Dr. Gilman, the world expert on Serotonin Syndrome. His web page:

https://psychotropical.info/

https://psychologydictionary.org/article/can-you-take-ssris-and-5-htp-together/

 

im not going to argue. 5htp is dangerous to self medicate with with an SSRI.  

Bye. 

[argh]

None of the 5-HTP is FDA regulated are they? So basically an OTC supplement?

I would imagine the big danger is that you aren't guaranteed actual amounts per pill or per vendor. Could be more within the stated mg of pill, less, something else, shredded newspaper, etc. 

[notloki]

1 hour ago, DammitJanet said:

https://psychologydictionary.org/article/can-you-take-ssris-and-5-htp-together/

 

im not going to argue. 5htp is dangerous to self medicate with with an SSRI.  

Bye. 

You are mirreading my posts. NOWHERE did I say ANYTHING about 5-HTP and SSRI taken together.  

BTW, a psychology page is not authoritative at all for medications.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by notloki

[notloki]

Well here is a study about using 5-HTP to augment a SSRI in TRD patients. No mention of Serotonin Syndrome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4946063/

[notloki]

There is a rate limiting step between 5-HTP making Serotonin. Given a huge dose of 5-HTP you will not make a huge amount of Serotonin due to this rate limiting step. The rate limiting step is there to protect you from a runaway reaction where floods of Serotonin are made. Take 5-HTP (see the study I posted above)with a SSRI and you will get a rise in Serotonin at certain sites. Nothing so big that you would be in a toxic Serotonin state.

I actually have had no opinion on this issue when this thread started though I think people had misconceptions as to 5-HTP to Serotonin processes. I now have seen enough proof that there is no risk of Serotonin Syndrome with 5-HTP.

There is no shortage on Serotonin precursors... you would have to not eat to be deficient.

Taking more than necessary probably means the supplements are excreted unchanged and unused. It is for this reason that I say don't bother with taking 5-HTP but if you do you are not at risk for Serotonin Syndrome. Don't put your faith is supplements. They are not tested or approved by the FDA. They could be anything. Walgreens was audited for their best selling vitamins, they tested them and found wild discrepancies in what was in them vs. what the label said. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by notloki
this changed to IT.

[DammitJanet]

5 hours ago, notloki said:

There is a rate limiting step between 5-HTP making Serotonin. Given a huge dose of 5-HTP you will not make a huge amount of Serotonin due to this rate limiting step. The rate limiting step is there to protect you from a runaway reaction where floods of Serotonin are made. Take 5-HTP (see the study I posted above)with a SSRI and you will get a rise in Serotonin at certain sites. Nothing so big that you would be in a toxic Serotonin state.

I actually have had no opinion on this issue when this thread started though I think people had misconceptions as to 5-HTP to Serotonin processes. I now have seen enough proof that there is no risk of Serotonin Syndrome with 5-HTP.

There is no shortage on Serotonin precursors... you would have to not eat to be deficient.

Taking more than necessary probably means the supplements are excreted unchanged and unused. It is for this reason that I say don't bother with taking 5-HTP but if you do you are not at risk for Serotonin Syndrome. Don't put your faith is supplements. They are not tested or approved by the FDA. They could be anything. Walgreens was audited for their best selling vitamins, they tested them and found wild discrepancies in what was in them vs. what the label said. 

Yay you win! Seriously christ. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by DammitJanet
Google SSRI, 5HTP, serotonin syndrome

[DammitJanet]

On 7/24/2018 at 12:42 AM, Brianarmstro said:

The only thing that is going to give you serotonin syndrome is combining an SSRI with a drug like MDMA, which FLOODS your brain with serotonin. 5-HTP does not flood your brain with serotonin, or else it would be made illegal because everyone would be abusing it! 5-HTP is converted to serotonin, without 5-HTP your brain will not be able to produce anymore serotonin - hence why most people on anti depressants find them to be ineffective once they have built up a tolerance.  

I want to apologize for the crude way I responded to your post. I’m going through some rough stuff and lashed out inappropriately, and I’m sincerely sorry. However, the information you did post contains some inaccurate information and even dangerous if some uninformed folks here heed its advice. Also, the point you made that it’d become illegal, that’d have to include several other otc supplements including sam-e, st. johns wort, etc  

Please see the screenshots I provided in my last post in the thread which includes a link from the nih treating a person with serotonin syndrome due to 5htp and sertraline. 

Again, my sincere apologies. 

[mikl_pls]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:38 AM, notloki said:

There is a rate limiting step between 5-HTP making Serotonin. Given a huge dose of 5-HTP you will not make a huge amount of Serotonin due to this rate limiting step. The rate limiting step is there to protect you from a runaway reaction where floods of Serotonin are made. Take 5-HTP (see the study I posted above)with a SSRI and you will get a rise in Serotonin at certain sites. Nothing so big that you would be in a toxic Serotonin state.

I actually have had no opinion on this issue when this thread started though I think people had misconceptions as to 5-HTP to Serotonin processes. I now have seen enough proof that there is no risk of Serotonin Syndrome with 5-HTP.

There is no shortage on Serotonin precursors... you would have to not eat to be deficient.

Taking more than necessary probably means the supplements are excreted unchanged and unused. It is for this reason that I say don't bother with taking 5-HTP but if you do you are not at risk for Serotonin Syndrome. Don't put your faith is supplements. They are not tested or approved by the FDA. They could be anything. Walgreens was audited for their best selling vitamins, they tested them and found wild discrepancies in what was in them vs. what the label said. 

I thought the rate-limiting step was with L-tryptophan, not 5-HTP?

[BrianOCD]

I've taken 50-100mg of 5-htp with effexor before...It's not recommended obviously, and I wouldn't recommend anyways because it didn't do a thing for me....

I would just look to increase your AD if it has come to that...