Existential thriving

[w0nderIngSparr0w]

Have you ever found yourself face to face with the question of living? Aside from the certainty of wanting to quit or just the gut feeling of fading.

Ever thought about the sense of going ahead? Is there even somewhere to go, or have we come from anywhere?

This question comes to me now and then....... when I retrive my reason from the shadow of ilusion.

Is it possible to live without hope?

I refuse to be the only one feeling this... philosophical living.....

Sparrow.

[celestia]

Is it possible to live without hope?

For myself, hopelessness is a choice. No matter how desperate and/or alone I might feel at any given time, I think back to having make a conscious decision to live--with or without hope. Hope to me is like any other state of mind. It waxes and wanes. I have to realize that when it is waning that I am going through a PHASE. Phases pass, as does my feelings of hopelessness. However, raising myself back up to a level where hope is again a tangible thing, I have to do a LOT of fucking work. At the levels of soul, spirit, intellect, etc. Nothing happens to me. I allow for whatever reaction I might feel to events or certain periods of life. I have a CHOICE. So, if I'm opting to feel hopeless (for whatever reason) the good news is at any given time I can choose differently, i.e., chose to hope. Then the forces of good start gaining momentum and thus I am able to shift the tide from hopeless to "maybe it's not so hopeless after all."

I definitely believe it is possible to live without hope. However, I would rephrase that to say, "it definitely is possible to exist without hope." Living v Existing = a warrior attitude and spirit in me that enables me to be strong and figure a way out of what might seemingly appear to be a hopeless situation. I also, and I can't emphasis this enough, get professional help. People with no real stake in what happens to me but want to help.

[Blue Morpho]

Hope to me is like any other state of mind. It waxes and wanes.

I agree with that - the idea that most of the ideas and emotions in the mind wax and wane, and that they have as much to do with how much fiber I've eaten than with 'reality', whatever the h*ll that is. I also made the choice to live at a time when I had no hope at all. In fact, I had thought hope was just a philosophical idea. I'd never experienced it as an emotion until I was 30 years old. I really did think that hope was just an idea that there was a future, and so one should be around for it. So I chose to do that, even though I was in a lot of pain. I needed meds to help me make the choice stick. But it did. I don't experience hope often, but when I do, it is great. Its okay for me, waiting around to feel it. I act like I feel it, and then sometimes I even do. I try to do things that make feeling it more likely, such as the cognitive 'fake it til you make it' idea that sounds insane but really works. i pretend to be a hopeful person, and I actually get a little more hopeful. Good luck. I hope you like the crazyboards. I like it here.

[Guest B]

I have been living with this off and on for much of my life. In the past I dealt with it mainly by stuffing it and distracting myself, but every time it came back it was worse. I have never attempted suicide but I have thought about it many times. I have examined my life and many people and have come to some conclusions. I think I may have really solved the whole "lack of hope" and "existential depression" thing.

The basic truth is that people who are misfits, overly sensitive, have weak identities, or consider suicide for psychological reasons are all suffering from inner conflict. The inner conflict saps their energy and causes outer conflict which ruins their lives. The conflict is between the way the world is and the way that they think it "should" be. This can be the result of independent creative thinking, rational analysis, conditioning, or pure delusion.

I would like to stress that being one of these people who "fail to adapt" does NOT make you inferior, although all of society will delight in denying that you have any value. In fact the dumbest animal people are the ones who adapt the easiest. However, in the real world you must be a survivor, and the environment is the ultimate dictator of what works and what doesn't. You may not want to bow to anyone and thats good, but you must bow to necessities. Furthermore, you must accept these necessities and not feel wracked with guilt over them, because that is just another form of mental illness.

Strategies:

-first stop the bleeding and sooth the pain, but avoid dogmatic religion. practice extreme self care and forgiveness of yourself. take it really easy and drop all expectations of yourself. Work on your physical as well as mental health and learn how they interact. Get clean and simple. Christianity and Islam are NOT good in this stage, they involve too much emphasis on conflict and judgement which you have already had too much of and are harming you. You need radical acceptance at this stage.

-read Nietszche. He will probably sound rediculously harsh or even sadistic at this stage. You don't have to agree with everything, but you must pay attention to your emotional reactions to his ideas and get to the root of them. Your conflict with him could also be your conflict with the realities of surviving and thriving in western civilization.

-eliminate self deception. we all have developed psychological scar tissue, or defense mechanisms, in response to negative experiences or just not wanting to face certain things. your biggest fault is going to be not facing up to your biggest fear or personal disadvantage. Having a disadvantage or weak point is either minimized or maximized by how you handle it.

-get in touch with natural feelings and desires rather than conditioned responses, and "shoulds" and "supposed to's".

-question your morality. this is the one thing that most people do not question. not all morality is actually good, a lot of it is really about social manipulation. Find out if you are a "square" or a "sucker" and if you are then you better change.

-practice "radical responsibility". practice thinking that you are responsible for absolutely everything in your life. You don't have to believe it at first, but just pretend. This is to combat "learned helplessness".

[Emettman]

Is it possible to live without hope?

Sparrow.

I'm in this territory, and have been some time, somewhat to the frustration of my psychologist.

I can't summon hope up from nowhere, without good grounds, which are difficult to find*.

And hope raised but broken is a painful thing.

Which leaves feeling around Aragorn's expression after Moria, after the fall of Gandalf.

"We must do without hope; at least we may yet be avenged..."

There is definitely something (Norse?) about purpose and duty without hope in Lord of the Rings

It's not quite trivial. There is a real strand of philosophy there.

*Old Mother Hubbard went to the cupboard, to get her poor dog a bone.

But when she got there her cupboard was bare, so the poor dog had none.

Until she'd been to the supermarket.Like Mother Hubbard, I have a bare cupboard

A definite need to restock.

I've tried eBay and Next, but still get perplexed

Does it come by the pint, pound or block?

Waitrose or Waterstones, neither can do.

Shop assistants, they really can't cope.

When I merely ask... (is it that great a task?)

Where does one go shopping for hope?