US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan

[Inspired_Neurosis]

DELETED -- Because I didn't actually start a thread and this split is unnecessary and misrepresentative of my posts. The original thread was overtly political and, as such, no distinction between the posts here and those in the original thread is possible.

Sorry for replying with a perfectly logical and appropriate segue.

[water]

Perhaps it's a mistake of me to read from that statement an implicit general indictment of the explanations from those in support of the operations, but that's just the undertone I get.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I admit I didn't think through my post much. I usually just write from my feelings and don't always think much about what I am saying.

I just wanted somehow to give mud support despite my different beliefs about the success or failure of the war. I know someone who is there now. I read newspaper articles with comments from troops who were there. I hear radio reports from politicians who were never there. And then I have my own beliefs. But I was never there. I have never been part of any military operation.

Usually I am always against any kind of invasion, violence, manipulation, participation of the U.S. anywhere else in the world. But I completely emphasize with mud. For me, there are rarely topics with blacks and whites. Just many shades of gray.

[water]

That kind of attitude("we'd be able to help our own if we weren't wasting our resources on Arabs") betrays feelings of superiority and contempt towards people in the eastern world.

Not that you're saying such. Just felt up for a political chat today.

I am definitely not saying such. In fact, quite the opposite. Too many people in this country have those feelings of superiority toward those of different skin color, different religion, different ethnicity.

I just think this f-ing country has for too long involved itself, either by invasion or supposedly discreet overthrowing, in other countries only for our own reasons of greed or fear. And usually all that happens is many people are killed, many cities are destroyed, infrastructure is demolished. For what? Who are we to decide how someone else should live their life?

And then, like in Rwanda, like WWII concentration camps, horrific atrocities happen and the U.S. just stands by. No oil to get, no need to invade. (feeling a bit cynical tonight.)

[water]

Alright, I give up. I do always contradict myself because I do not argue from logic. I argue from my feelings. My husband complains about it all the time. I don't know how to respond to you.

And I also apologize to mud. I should not have stepped into this minefield.

But before I try to quietly take leave of this thread.....

I take great offense from this statement -

[quote name='Inspired_Neurosis' date='18 December 2009 - 07:35

PM' timestamp='1261182950' post='381118'] people like you

[mudpuppy]

I'm actually glad... because water actually proved my point completely.

Regardless, it was a rant, and only intended to be such.

[r2mnot]

I have a few thoughts to share, although it's kind of confusing now that there are two threads. This is about both of them.

First off, my sympathies to mudpuppy. I'm sorry you have lost and are losing fellow soldiers. I can't imagine how hard that must be. I am also grateful to you, and to the many others who put their lives on the line to free an oppressed people.

Second. Yes. We won the war. Remember when the statue of Sudom Husein was pulled down? Remember the Iraqi people kicking that statue? The dancing in the streets? People generally don't celebrate the end of a war unless they won it. The Iraqi people now have the daunting task of hammering out their own government amidst violence and constant threat of death. Our soldiers are still there to assist that new government. If we pull out now, we are deserting the very people we sought to free.

Third. All opinions are not equal. Some are are well thought out, some are reprehensible, and some are downright stupid. (I'm NOT directing this at anyone, just to be clear.) Our opinions are, however, equal under the law. We all get to say what we want. We get to argue and debate. We get to yell at each other. We can march and hold up signs and publish what we want to. We wouldn't have these freedoms if others had not fought and died to attain them. We won that war too.