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Possible Cyclothmic Disorder ? + PPD


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This kinda fits me too...

Symptoms during a mixed state can vary, but most individuals experience a full range of both depression and irritable mania symptoms. The deep despair and hopelessness of depression often occurs simultaneously with the increased energy, and impulsivity seen in mania. Thoughts often race as in a manic episode, but the content is often dark and full of pessimism, worry, guilt, and self-hatred. Anxiety is also often a prominent feature of mixed mood states, evidenced by an increase in panic attacks and compulsions. Many persons with bipolar disorder describe mixed episodes as feeling much worse than either mania or depression alone.

in fact it would combine a lot of the aboved mentioned into 1 problem .. however I donty think the paranoid thoughts fit into it .......  ;)   ... fuck im a mess

not sure how I never came across this before..

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I dont have anything profound to say but i wanted you to know that someone read the whole thing.. i cant figure my stuff out and there are alot of folks who are MUCH more knowledgeable than I. I hope someone can offer an educated opinion

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I recently went to a shrink to get help with what most people have thought was ADD/ADHD all my life.
Holy shit dude!  You are capable of writing a post that long and people thought you had ADD?

Is it possible to have ADD/ADHD , PPD , and Cyclothymic ? Is there a possbility that a combination of those might create the illusion of the others ?

What do you think I have yourself and is there anything else I should look into ? Any other disorders ... I've looked into a several as it is.

Anything is possible.  From your symptoms, I would guess at least BPII.  BP overlaps with a lot of other disorders, so figuring out your DX would be best done by a professional.  The exact DX isn't as important as identifying your symptoms, which you seem to have done a pretty through job of, and coming up with a treatment plan to address them.

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Sometimes the DSM just seems like an elaborate set of horoscopes, doesn't it? You can see yourself in all the little stories they tell. ---> print out the above and show your psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist. Only a pro can tell the difference between pathology and our everyday quirks.

Given your experiences with ad's and suspicions of bipolar, you might want to give a mood stabilizer a try. Don't worry so much about the dx. Ultimately, it's about you feeling better.

good luck!

7

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Sometimes the DSM just seems like an elaborate set of horoscopes, doesn't it? You can see yourself in all the little stories they tell. ---> print out the above and show your psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist. Only a pro can tell the difference between pathology and our everyday quirks.

Given your experiences with ad's and suspicions of bipolar, you might want to give a mood stabilizer a try. Don't worry so much about the dx. Ultimately, it's about you feeling better.

good luck!

7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She already knows a lot of that .. Before , she wasnt listening or asking the right questions. Now she is. But I havent had a chance to talk with her about a few other things ... Though my recent visit seemed to peek concern.

Yeah she put me on seroquel if your not familliar with it it's a atypical anti-psychotic. She wants to see if she can get rid of my insomnia by treating the mania symptoms with this med when I need to sleep.

It knocked my ass out with just 50mg .. However when I wake up or when im still up after taking them it titlts my mood spectrum towards the depressed state and if I dont feel bad that way I am completely apathetic or  just to drowsy to care enough to do much.

I doubt she will keep me on it

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It knocked my ass out with just 50mg .. However when I wake up or when im still up after taking them it titlts my mood spectrum towards the depressed state and if I dont feel bad that way I am completely apathetic or
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I'm not sure the medication is beneficial at all. Like I said I could just take Benadryl (or any other Anti-Histamine thats strong) and get the exact same feeling of drowsyness and impairment.. As far as mood stablizing goes , so far it's just made me want to lay around or it's made me feel depressed (unless its just not working) despite the wellbutrin (which was causing more manic symptoms).

As far as a pill cutter goes , couldnt I just use a razor ? lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your pdoc wanted to see if getting you on a proper sleep cycle would help first, before moving on to stronger meds. If benadryl will do it, by all means, take that route--just get 8 hrs of sleep/night. Sleep deprivation alone will make people manic-y and even hallucinate. seroquel becomes a "mood stabilizer" only at higher doses, but to be honest, it works far better for the manic end & that's what it's fda approved for.

i've tried cutting little pills with an exacto knife and the results are very wonky & crumbly.

7

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I'm not sure the medication is beneficial at all. Like I said I could just take Benadryl (or any other Anti-Histamine thats strong) and get the exact same feeling of drowsyness and impairment.. As far as mood stablizing goes , so far it's just made me want to lay around or it's made me feel depressed (unless its just not working) despite the wellbutrin (which was causing more manic symptoms).

As far as a pill cutter goes , couldnt I just use a razor ? lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your pdoc wanted to see if getting you on a proper sleep cycle would help first, before moving on to stronger meds. If benadryl will do it, by all means, take that route--just get 8 hrs of sleep/night. Sleep deprivation alone will make people manic-y and even hallucinate. seroquel becomes a "mood stabilizer" only at higher doses, but to be honest, it works far better for the manic end & that's what it's fda approved for.

i've tried cutting little pills with an exacto knife and the results are very wonky & crumbly.

7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really appreciate you trying to help me with all of this. Talking about this stuff is a good wayfor me  to gather thoughts.

Funny thing is sometimes when I haven't slept for 2 - 3 days I can focus anc concentrate pretty well. It's kinda like im too tired to care about anxieties , depression , and too tired to act manic (despite thats whats keeping me up). Of course I'm tired , but I'm mentally alert (like somone on meth). I'm such a better person when I'm like that , but I can also be too tired to do much physical stuff , and driving is never a good idea when I'm like that .. I tend to get spacy.

I'm really starting to think that the doctor should find a way to treat the depression perhaps she should continue with the wellbutrin since its working for the depression. Then she should find something that I can take with that for the Paranoid thoughts and anxiety. That way my racing thoughts don't become negative ones and the Hypomania (since it doesnt go into full blown mania) would be totally beneficial. I mean the mania itself contradicts the main 2 problems unless they mix , when I'm hypomanic im confident , my thoughts come fast but I can use them , im more social , and I get more work done .. despite im easily irritated but I dont have problems with anger / violence most of the time. After knocking those 2 things out of the way since they are the REAL DANGER here for my health ... She should find something I can take to help me sleep when I start having insomnia (perhaps the seroquel or even just tell me to take benadryl since i have allergies as it is). If I still can't focus after that she really does think that I could have ADD of some form or another , maybe she could try putting me on Adderall along with those medications (ritalins side effects fucked with me) to help me focus and if the Adderall causes the mania to get worse then she could try something that was a little more sedative towards it ?

well either way I have no problem with telling my doctors anything , I will tell them whatever I need too , and try to help them find out whats up..

Do you guys think I should get disability for the durtation of my treatment , its pretty obvious I cant work right now ... not even with things I usually love doing.

is it easy to get off of (when I decide im ready to go back to work) and are there many downsides ?

if you know that is.

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I'm really starting to think that the doctor should find a way to treat the depression perhaps she should continue with the wellbutrin since its working for the depression. Then she should find something that I can take with that for the Paranoid thoughts and anxiety. That way my racing thoughts don't become negative ones and the Hypomania (since it doesnt go into full blown mania) would be totally beneficial. I mean the mania itself contradicts the main 2 problems unless they mix , when I'm hypomanic im confident , my thoughts come fast but I can use them , im more social , and I get more work done .. despite im easily irritated but I dont have problems with anger / violence most of the time. After knocking those 2 things out of the way since they are the REAL DANGER here for my health ... She should find something I can take to help me sleep when I start having insomnia (perhaps the seroquel or even just tell me to take benadryl since i have allergies as it is). If I still can't focus after that she really does think that I could have ADD of some form or another , maybe she could try putting me on Adderall along with those medications (ritalins side effects fucked with me) to help me focus and if the Adderall causes the mania to get worse then she could try something that was a little more sedative towards it ?

well either way I have no problem with telling my doctors anything , I will tell them whatever I need too , and try to help them find out whats up..

Do you guys think I should get disability for the durtation of my treatment , its pretty obvious I cant work right now ... not even with things I usually love doing.

is it easy to get off of (when I decide im ready to go back to work) and are there many downsides ?

if you know that is.

ok jpd, you're starting to drive me crazy...just when i thought the lith had stabilized me.--just kidding. i don't know how i got sucked into this, but i get awful rambly, tangential and detailed when i'm hypo too. dsm criteria for bipolar II=hypo for 4 days=mood stabilizer. pdocs tend to want to treat mania first then depression. also, paranoia & delusions can be symptoms of bipolar, ask yourself if you get this way only when hypo or depressed. stay on your wellbutrin if it's working for you. bipolars typically take a cocktail of meds. but if you're bipolar, you will need a stabilizer. since you're on the depressive side, try lamictal...lithium is also good for both ends, although some find it deadens them. it's trial and error. that's what it's like to be bipolar. this is what you're looking at for the rest of your life...unless you're cyclothymic (mild bipolar) in which case you can go med-free sometimes.

i would take one med on board at a time so that you'll know what's doing what. likewise, treat one symptom at a time. there are quite a few bipolars who also have add. look in cocktails/polypharmacy where there's a great thread on what bipolars with add take. its title is something like "what are you on?" and yes, these drugs are easy to wean off with a little patience.

if you are unable to work, definitely look into taking some paid time off. as for gov. disability, unless you can prove you were at poverty level and sick for the past, I think, 8 months or something like that, you're going to have a hard time getting it. find details on gov. site. you're evidently good at research.

7

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I'm really starting to think that the doctor should find a way to treat the depression perhaps she should continue with the wellbutrin since its working for the depression. Then she should find something that I can take with that for the Paranoid thoughts and anxiety. That way my racing thoughts don't become negative ones and the Hypomania (since it doesnt go into full blown mania) would be totally beneficial. I mean the mania itself contradicts the main 2 problems unless they mix , when I'm hypomanic im confident , my thoughts come fast but I can use them , im more social , and I get more work done .. despite im easily irritated but I dont have problems with anger / violence most of the time. After knocking those 2 things out of the way since they are the REAL DANGER here for my health ... She should find something I can take to help me sleep when I start having insomnia (perhaps the seroquel or even just tell me to take benadryl since i have allergies as it is). If I still can't focus after that she really does think that I could have ADD of some form or another , maybe she could try putting me on Adderall along with those medications (ritalins side effects fucked with me) to help me focus and if the Adderall causes the mania to get worse then she could try something that was a little more sedative towards it ?

well either way I have no problem with telling my doctors anything , I will tell them whatever I need too , and try to help them find out whats up..

Do you guys think I should get disability for the durtation of my treatment , its pretty obvious I cant work right now ... not even with things I usually love doing.

is it easy to get off of (when I decide im ready to go back to work) and are there many downsides ?

if you know that is.

ok jpd, you're starting to drive me crazy...just when i thought the lith had stabilized me.--just kidding. i don't know how i got sucked into this, but i get awful rambly, tangential and detailed when i'm hypo too. dsm criteria for bipolar II=hypo for 4 days=mood stabilizer. pdocs tend to want to treat mania first then depression. also, paranoia & delusions can be symptoms of bipolar, ask yourself if you get this way only when hypo or depressed. stay on your wellbutrin if it's working for you. bipolars typically take a cocktail of meds. but if you're bipolar, you will need a stabilizer. since you're on the depressive side, try lamictal...lithium is also good for both ends, although some find it deadens them. it's trial and error. that's what it's like to be bipolar. this is what you're looking at for the rest of your life...unless you're cyclothymic (mild bipolar) in which case you can go med-free sometimes.

i would take one med on board at a time so that you'll know what's doing what. likewise, treat one symptom at a time. there are quite a few bipolars who also have add. look in cocktails/polypharmacy where there's a great thread on what bipolars with add take. its title is something like "what are you on?" and yes, these drugs are easy to wean off with a little patience.

if you are unable to work, definitely look into taking some paid time off. as for gov. disability, unless you can prove you were at poverty level and sick for the past, I think, 8 months or something like that, you're going to have a hard time getting it. find details on gov. site. you're evidently good at research.

7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I went to see my doctor again today. Last time she said she had to think things over a little more since there was a lot of new information. This time She said she thinks I'm Cyclothymic and that she agrees that I have Mixed States (she apparently thought so already). She is still very worried about hoe deep my depression gets. She thinks that I am Depressed period because of events that have happend over time as well and that it just adds to the problem (possibly one reason the mixed states can get so bad too). She is trying me on Risperdal and boosting my dose of Wellbutrin XL to 300mg from 150mg.

Well at least Cyclothymic makes some things make more sense. Like why Wellbutrin (until it leveled out) & Ritalin made me really manic and why Zoloft almost made me lost my mind , get all suicidal , and either manic or apathetic/lathargic to a new personal extreme. Zoloft is after all supposed to be a harsh way to find out your bi-polar (or similar)

it was funny she was like , you know you put things into words really well , how you feel , most people dont open up like that. I just kinda laughed and told her well I'm a songwriter it's my job

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If it were me (which it's not) I'd wait to see if the brand-new med works before bailing on functioning in the world.  I had serious thoughts of disability during my most recent mid-med-change crash, but only two months later I'm feeling just fabulous, so I'm glad I didn't go to HRM and confess all my secrets.

I know the tendency is to try to treat the most painful symptom first, but if that symptom is tightly linked to another dangerous one, the way depression is linked to mania or hypomania, you have to watch out.  ADs alone are very dangerous for BP (likewise, I assume, for cyclothymia).  Some docs even go so far as to say ADs combined with a mood stabilizer are too dangerous for us.  But the test is what works.

Good luck with the risperdal.  Wait a while and see what happens, and in the meantime really take care of yourself.  Seven is right.  Sleep is critical .  You may have been using it to tweak or numb your mood, but that's not the way to do it.  If you don't sleep regularly, you're setting yourself up for breakthrough manias.  So set a regular time to go to sleep and take a sleep med if you need to (people seem to like seroquel for that).  Do at least that much for yourself.

And about the half-dozen diagnoses.  I've read through all that stuff and it's all stuff I've had as symptoms over the past decades.  But now that my BP is effectively treated, I'm just a BP alcoholic with poor parenting.  All the paranoia, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, social phobia, anhedonia (a symptom of depression), ADD-like symptoms, all that shit--it's all gone.  OK, I'm still not sure how to interact, because developmentally I stopped maturing about 30 years ago, but now I can get to work being a grown-up. 

You're ahead of the curve, from my perspective.  I waited for treatment until I was 40.  You will catch up faster, without doing as much damage to your life, than many of us.  So happy trails!

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Well, in that case, maybe SSI would be helpful.  I was very, very lucky to have a stable government job when I crashed.  I know I let some clients down, but I was able to go half-time for about a month and a half, and was only marginally functional even when I was there.  But I just told my boss I was having bad health problems from a new medication (didn't tell him what) and he was fine with it.  I'm good at mostly hiding my moods so I got through it.

Try not to dwell on remembering too much about the past.  Sometimes even reading the boards can be triggering for me.  So try to get to know what gets you agitated and gets the depressive thoughts going, and just avoid things for a while until you get your meds lined up.  It can be hard to avoid triggers, but it's a cheap and easy thing you can do for yourself. 

I've actually done things like taking an enforced break from reading about MI on the boards or elsewhere and taking a break from listening to disturbing news. The most important job you have is caring for your head, so do what you have to to take care of it.

And keep in touch with the pdoc.  The more he knows, the more he can help.

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I'm a satisfied customer with Lamictal.  I got manic at low doses, like some do, but at 100 settled down pretty well, and at 200 I'm feeling quite good. 

Just be straight with the pdoc, tell them how you feel, and answer questions straight.  They'll figure out how to treat you.  That's their job.  Tell them what diagnoses seem to ring true to you, but don't expect they'll necessarily pick one of your cards instead of one they've thought up.  Again, the thing that matters is what works.  Diagnosis is only a handy way of coming up with treatment options.

Good luck!

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