Frequent hypnopompic hallucinations - really "normal"?

[apoppop]

Over the last 6 months or so I have been suffering from increasingly frequent, and more severe hypnopompic hallucinations.

I have read that they are "normal", and I can buy that it is normal to have the occasional hypnopompic hallucination.

However mine escalated to the point where I usually got at least 2-3 each night and often 5-6 or more every night/morning.

I always know that they are not real (although they can still sometimes scare the **** out of me and make me scream etc).

Often when I wake up, I conciously think "I'll have a look and see if there is anything there..." I open my eyes and often there is something, this way I am prepared for it and it is less likely to scare me.

If I am sleeping in and lying in bed half-awake, I may keep seeing things each time I roll over/open my eyes.

Typically I see spiders or weird bugs, bizzare shapes, sometimes strange animal things and weird objects.

I do also see things when I am lying awake in bed, staring at the ceiling and feel wide awake (I get insomnia), however these are normally just coloured things which I think are similar to what people can get with migraines. It is only when I started to get the hypnopompic hallucinations that I really felt these coloured things were definitely hallucinations as I have seen the coloured things do totally bizzare stuff when I wake up that is obviously a hallucination. The coloured things are unique in that closing my eyes often does not get rid of them (can be very annoying when I am trying to sleep!)

I have eliminated medications etc as the root cause of these hallucinations.

I have been given zyprexa to help with these hallucinations. I took it for a short time and whilst it did not work immediately it did reduce them to almost nothing. However after concerns about side effects I stopped taking them a short while ago and they are coming back again though not yet to nearly the same frequency/level as before.

I am wondering if my hallucinations can really be considered something a "normal" person would experience?

[vanderk]

They are 'normal' in the sense that just about everyone experiences hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations at one time or another. Your's sound significantly frequent to raise some flags. Tell us about your diagnosis, treatment, meds, etc for a better read. Some meds can exacerbate a condition like this. Some headache and seizure conditions are also linked. Zyprexa will help for hallucinations due to certain brain cooties, but doubtful for what you are experiencing. Have you had a sleep study?

[Guest apoppop]

They are 'normal' in the sense that just about everyone experiences hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations at one time or another. Your's sound significantly frequent to raise some flags. Tell us about your diagnosis, treatment, meds, etc for a better read. Some meds can exacerbate a condition like this. Some headache and seizure conditions are also linked. Zyprexa will help for hallucinations due to certain brain cooties, but doubtful for what you are experiencing. Have you had a sleep study?

Thanks for your reply. I've haven't had a sleep study or any form of diagnosis. I have had a lot of pathology (blood tests) done recently and all normal. GP just gave me the zyprexa to try to see if it helped. I do suspect the GP thinks I am kind of nuts.

Only medications I had been taking were to help with insomnia (endep). I had been having hallucinations long before this though (but much less and mostly just the coloured things). I suspect the endep does make them somewhat worse but I think this is because without it I tend to wake up so frequently that I rarely get into a deep enough sleep to guarantee a really "good" one when I wake up.

Anyway after stopping the endep and taking the zyprexa they were still occurring frequently for about a week.

[vanderk]

I am not familiar with Endep, so I cannot say if it may be a factor. But your events predate your prescription for it. Talk frankly/bluntly with your doc about this. I feel strongly that a sleep study would be vastly more useful than a pannel of blood tests. I'd also ask for a Neurology consult, especially if a sleep study is inconclusive. I'm pretty certain some others here have had similar experiences and I hope they chime in. Have you done a search here at CB on this topic?

[isis]

Endep is Amitryptaline, a tricyclic.

Hallucinations are listed in the product information, but its not a common symptom. If you had them before, its probably not a cause but it might exacerbate, as you said. I would talk to your doctor about seeing someone who might have a better idea. There are lots of possibilities of things that might cause that kind of experience. I often see stuff but mainly at night before i sleep not when i wake up. I've always had that so it doesnt bother me because i only recently figured out they had a name.

A neurologist would probably be a good person to see. I would be cautious about having your GP as the primary doc for these kinds of things because you really don't want to go through the run of all the psych drugs if your problem is more neurological.

isis.

[apoppop]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Unfortunately access to specialist medical services is difficult where I live. Particularly neurologists, some people wait years just to get an initial consulation.

Therefore to me it was worthwhile trying the anti-psychotics firstly.

I am a little concerned about the fact that they definitely appeared to work. I have been wondering if this means anything, or if these drugs are effective against hallucinations from a variety of causes (not just psychiatric causes?)

[isis]

Hey apoppop,

I understand about not having much access to specialists. It can be pretty hard sometimes to get what you want/need at an appropriate time.

My knowledge of sleep and pharmacology of neuroleptics is not huge, but i have been reading about it because i'm interested. There are, of course, always several possibilities and alternatives to being hypnopompic hallucinations would be that your hallucinations are either of psychological (they don't sound like it though) or from a mass/tumor/node in some area of your brain (which isn't that common). Given that they only happen when you fall asleep/wake up, and statistically you're more likely to have exactly what you described... for the moment i'll just talk about that.

Hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations can be induced by alpha waves, in a Dream machine - they pulse light at a similar wavelength to that created by alpha waves in your brain, at it seems to reproduce these hallucinations. Alpha waves (from what i have read) appear in the first stage of sleep, or NREM1 (non-REM, first stage). REM sleep is generally the dreaming stage, and the normal pattern of sleeping is NREM1 - NREM2 - NREM3 - NREM 2 - REM. If you look around online or on wikipedia you can see diagrams/graphs that show that kind of thing.

People who have sleep paralysis experience the onset of sleep or wakefulness during NREM1. You get drowsy, start drifting off, and then your body becomes atonic, pretty much your muscles may either stiffen or go all floppy, but either way you don't move. Normally thats fine, but somepeople experience that atonia before they actually lose awareness of their surroundings, which makes them feel paralysed. Their body is moving into that sleep phase, but their mind has not.

It seems that hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations happen in possibly the opposite way, where your mind starts to begin to experience the onset of 'sleep' before you actually fall asleep. So while you lie there, feeling tired or in that 'about to sleep' or 'just woke up' state, your brain transmits these alpha waves which might lead you to feel physically awake and normal but see some really interesting things.

There are, like most things, varying opinions on this though, and that is more of a theory than a definitive explanation.

With neuroleptics/antipsychotics such as Zyprexa, they often affect sleep and patterns of sleep. People sleep more, sleep deeper, spend less time dreaming, etc. Zyprexa can reduce REM sleep, which would mean less dreaming, but it also brings on sedation and can make you fall asleep faster or fall into a deeper sleep. I'm not exactly sure on this one, but from what i understand, Zyprexa could influence neurotransmitters in your brain if you experienced hallucinations as part of a psychotic disorder, but it may also decrease the amount of NREM1 sleep you have, therefore reducing the hallucinations people experience while falling asleep and waking up.

I hope that made sense.

As far as drug therapy itself - its probably a good idea to look at the medications that are available to you, and work out whether or not their benefits outweigh their consequences. Obviously zyprexa was helpful to you but it can have some pretty significant side effects and i think it would definitely be worthwhile exploring your other options before you start it again. It might be worth asking your doctor if he could find some more information to use, or looking at any research in the area of treatment, although im not sure how much would be available. Benzodiazepines might have some benefit, but some can also cause hallucinations as a side effect, although that seems more common with non-benzo sedatives. In any case benzos are often used for their calming effects in people with hallucination anxiety - like during an LSD trip when they start freaking out.

Your doctor is probably able to talk to a pharmacist or a neurologist by phone to discuss the issue, and it might be worthwhile asking him if he'd do that, if he hasn't already. Pharmacists know a lot about the drugs they prescribe, particularly pharmacists at hospitals, and they can be very, very helpful.

Hope you can find something that works.

isis.

[Lolie]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Unfortunately access to specialist medical services is difficult where I live. Particularly neurologists, some people wait years just to get an initial consulation.

Therefore to me it was worthwhile trying the anti-psychotics firstly.

I am a little concerned about the fact that they definitely appeared to work. I have been wondering if this means anything, or if these drugs are effective against hallucinations from a variety of causes (not just psychiatric causes?)

They're effective for a variety of causes. That's one reason why good doctors go through the process of eliminating physical causes, even when the cause is most likely to be psychiatric.

[Guest anon101]

I also have the same issue as apoppop. I wake up either sleep walking or hallucinating pretty much every night and often multiple times a night. It has gotten to the point where it's mainly just annoying. I wake up and open my eyes to see crazy things (bugs, people, wierd shapes, etc) all the time, and sometimes I wake up and think I have something important to do and will be rummaging though my room trying to accomplish some strange task that only makes sense to me at the time. It's gotten to the point where it's so frequent that I recognize that I am doing it and that it's not real while it's happening. I then usually force myself to either stare at the hallucination till I fully awake or sometimes I'll even walk over to where I see this hallucination and wave my hand through it to help convince myself it's not real until I full snap out of it. I believe it is somewhat hereditary since both me and my brother (we are both between ages 25-30) experience the same thing (both pretty much exactly what apoppop described) and my parents had told storys of them dealing with sleepwalking a lot at younger ages (even though sleepwalking is quite different than these hallucinations that me and my brother get).

I do notice it happens a lot more when I am overly tired or when I did not get a lot of sleep the night before.

Thankfully last night I cleaned a good portion of my room while sleepwalking because as I woke up I thought there was a parade coming through my room and I needed to clean up for it (pretty crazy thought, but it made sense to me while I was in the middle of doing it). So if I continue to do productive things during these episodes than maybe it's not so much of a problem? haha

[Guest labgirl]

Have experienced thousands of hypnopompics since childhood, although they markedly picked up in my late teens and throughout my twenties and early thirties (I'm now 50).

Consulted a doc in my late twenties but he just attributed it to my being nuts ;-) so there ya go. I've never done any meds or drugs so nothing to blame there. These "visions"

range from scary as hell to mildly amusing and are nearly all visual. Only had 1 or 2 that had an auditory component. Always occurred within the first 2 hours of sleep. As I aged,

they cut down significantly (thank heavens). Now mostly see calligraphy across the ceiling/walls and the occasional "bug" etc. nothing spooky any longer. Had ONE hallucination 2 years back where I swore an animal was beneath the bed sheets and i observed it quickly running out into a corner. Even had the motel night clerk search the room with broom in hand! After a few minutes, I called off his search, sheepishly admitting that it was probably just a "nightmare". No alien abductions though :-) . Seems the hormones might have some influence since these hallucinations have largely disappeared as I've aged. Also, must stay away from concentrated tomato pastes/sauces as these for some weird reason tend to increase frequency of the hallucinations. 'Course M.D.s and others who have never experienced this phenomenon write it off as "craziness" or just a benign ho-hum experience, but they'd be a bit humbler were they do have a few trains race through walls, have military helicopters land in your room with armed troops streaming out (yep, had those in my younger days) or awake to be greeted by psychodelic-colored crustaceans crawling up the walls (ahem). Anyway, hope you get relief. They will wear you out 'til you do.

[Guest s gardner]

This has been happening to me as well. I am a 33 year old fairly healthy female. I do have a history of migraine headaches. I've had them most of my life as well as sleep walking, and sleep talking. It normally occurs where I remember it about once per week but my husband says it happens more frequently. The last week I have had the hallucinations, (and all the rest ever night and multiple incidents in the last three). No medication or diet changes. I have no clue what's going on. Its keeping both me and my partner from getting any sleep.

[daisy]

I have experienced them randomly for years, but there was quite a long phase where it happened nightly -- and sometimes several times each night. They're terrifying, even if you recognize at the time that it isn't real. (Sometimes I did and sometimes I didn't.) My scariest hallucination was when I saw the ghost of my grandfather (who is very much alive) telling me that he had died in a car accident. I didn't usually get such intense hallucinations during this, so I honestly couldn't figure out if I was dreaming or if I was awake. You bet your ass I called him right away the next morning, especially since he kind of is the scariest driver in the world! I then realized that the typical paralysis I experienced was the exact same as my other experiences.

They randomly went away, even while I was on the same sleeping medicine. My life certainly didn't get less stressful (more stressful, if anything) so I don't know if I can really contribute them to environmental factors, either. I still have them every now and then, but much less than I ever have in my entire life. (Oops, I hope I didn't jinx myself!)

I would consider a sleep study if it is really compromising your life. I didn't even think of a sleep study at the time, though I wish I had! I can understand how hellish they are. Even though it's "normal", if it's really a big concern, which it sounds like it is, you should definitely consider looking into it.

[Guest s gardner]

I posted a day or so ago about an huge increase in the last week of sleep disruptive behaviors (sleep walking, talking, hallucinations) and I did not know the cause. Found out something that might be influencing things this morning... I'm pregnant. Hmmm... Well. I guess hormones can trigger it for me.

[AnneMarie]

I posted a day or so ago about an huge increase in the last week of sleep disruptive behaviors (sleep walking, talking, hallucinations) and I did not know the cause. Found out something that might be influencing things this morning... I'm pregnant. Hmmm... Well. I guess hormones can trigger it for me.

Hormones definitely triggered me. I would always have hypnagogic hallucinations around my period. When I hit menopause, they stopped. I don't think it's just a coincidence.

[Stickler]

I had aural hypnogogic hallucinations for awhile during the period when my abuse was going on and being dissociated. During a period of intense emotional recall, the symptom returned for a while...and I was hallucinating the same television theme songs that I did when I was a kid-from Good Times and the Jeffersons, as heard through distortion and LSD...I also got to hear long improvised brass-band jazz ensembles playing in my ears...In fact, with a little effort, I was able to direct the hallucination. Which was pretty damn cool, and I want that symptom back!

And just once...since I joked that I was getting KLSD radio...I heard the hallucination sing out, in four-part harmony...KAAAY ELLL ESSS DEEE-eee! before it quit for the day.

[Guest Jim Rapoza]

Over the last 6 months or so I have been suffering from increasingly frequent, and more severe hypnopompic hallucinations.

I have read that they are "normal", and I can buy that it is normal to have the occasional hypnopompic hallucination.

However mine escalated to the point where I usually got at least 2-3 each night and often 5-6 or more every night/morning.

I always know that they are not real (although they can still sometimes scare the **** out of me and make me scream etc).

Often when I wake up, I conciously think "I'll have a look and see if there is anything there..." I open my eyes and often there is something, this way I am prepared for it and it is less likely to scare me.

If I am sleeping in and lying in bed half-awake, I may keep seeing things each time I roll over/open my eyes.

Typically I see spiders or weird bugs, bizzare shapes, sometimes strange animal things and weird objects.

I do also see things when I am lying awake in bed, staring at the ceiling and feel wide awake (I get insomnia), however these are normally just coloured things which I think are similar to what people can get with migraines. It is only when I started to get the hypnopompic hallucinations that I really felt these coloured things were definitely hallucinations as I have seen the coloured things do totally bizzare stuff when I wake up that is obviously a hallucination. The coloured things are unique in that closing my eyes often does not get rid of them (can be very annoying when I am trying to sleep!)

I have eliminated medications etc as the root cause of these hallucinations.

I have been given zyprexa to help with these hallucinations. I took it for a short time and whilst it did not work immediately it did reduce them to almost nothing. However after concerns about side effects I stopped taking them a short while ago and they are coming back again though not yet to nearly the same frequency/level as before.

I am wondering if my hallucinations can really be considered something a "normal" person would experience?

[Guest Jim Rapoza]

When you say you see "colored things," would they be something like prisms? The reason I'm asking is because your description of what's happening to you is almost identical to what's happening to me. I had these colored prisms that appeared, but they have pretty much dissipated.

[crazycatnapper]

Everyone experiences HH from time to time in life. People who are really sleep deprived have them more often. However, it's a major sign of Narcolepsy and some other sleep disorders. I have Narcolepsy and hate the HH. I never told any of my Pdocs about them prior to diagnosis of Narc though because I KNEW I was not psychotic and didn't want to be on that med-go-round. Even if the wait for a specialist is long, I highly recommend trying to schedule a sleep study. Sometimes a sleep specialist is better than neurologist too. I happen to see both types of docs and my sleep doc is WAY better because he has several patients with N. My neurologist, even though he does sleep studies, doesn't have any N patients and I was mostly educating him about the disease. It may be easier to find a sleep doc in your area than a neurologist and maybe easier to arrange an appointment with. I guess it depends on where you live and your health care system.

[chulupa2]

Crazycatnapper-

I understand what you mean.. I've been diagnosed with narcolepsy for 3 1/2 years now and I was quite a bit nervous to explain to my sleep dr. about the "moving mice" that I know arn't real. He explained that my mind was on the border of awake and REM sleep at the same time.. I knew I wasn't crazy and there was NO way I was telling my family practice dr. this 3 years ago! The sleep dr. has put me on a med to take at night that changes when the patterns of sleep happen. I have only had a few (2 or 3) hh since I started it 1 1/2 months ago!! WOO-HOO!!! And guess what else? I can wake up in the morning! It no longer takes my husband 2 -3 hours for me to wake/come out of sleep paralysis..

Apoppop-

No frequent hallucinations arn't normal. If it isn't a side effect to a medicine you are taking, then something isn't right. Even if your general dr thinks your "crazy" push to have a sleep test done! And don't only take the night test but the daytime multiple sleep latency test. The night test will notice issues with sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome, and other night issues. The day test is a very important as well, it measures if you can sleep in the day- how fast it takes you to go to sleep- and what type of sleep you go into. For instance- going into REM sleep in the day means it could mess up the timing at night. I would advise you to push to get it done. (Some sleep drs will allow you to refer yourself to them with out the general dr sending you... but check with your insurance before you do about coverage if self referred to a specialist) The one test might just literally change your life. Please keep us posted and good luck!

[apoppop]

When you say you see "colored things," would they be something like prisms? The reason I'm asking is because your description of what's happening to you is almost identical to what's happening to me. I had these colored prisms that appeared, but they have pretty much dissipated.

I haven't been back here in ages and see there are a few more responses to my original post. No the colored things are not like prisms, more like fireworks.

Since my original post I now have almost constant visual "disturbances" throughout the day and night, much worse when I wake up. By visual disturbances I mean weird colours, spots, and things just looking really weird. If I get up to go to the bathroom etc in the night, the wierd visuals are going nuts the whole time. I only see actual "things", as in spiders etc, for a minute or two right after I wake up though.

Anyway, I am getting used to living with them and have pretty much lost faith in doctors to bother to pursue this any further. It also helps since I learned that I can control them a bit by trying to think about nice stuff when I open my eyes, I can make the spiders etc turn into more pleasant things and have some control over them. Sometimes it is actually pretty cool. The daytime visual disturbances are irritating, but I can probably learn to live with them.

[Anna]

Are you quite sure that 'constant visual disturbances' is something you want to live with? to me that sounds extremely disruptive and maybe there is something else here going on..... I mean, it's your choice and everything but man, that sounds difficult. I'm glad you are gaining some control over the scary ones, but having constant daytime hallucinations sounds pretty disruptive to me.

Anna

[juxtaposer]

Yep, like everyone else, I've had these hallucinations. I've experienced sleep paralysis for years now, but the hallucinations have just started within the past few months. No clue what causes them, but they can be kind of fun. I talked to my guitar for a few minutes last night because he seemed like a friendly man...I was just wondering what he was doing in my room.