obsessed Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 title says it all i suppose. like my last post a few weeks back, this is more of a rant its just so frustrating not being able to sleep. ESPECIALLY when you're exhausted. my recent sleep pattern: fall asleep at 11, wake at 12-1, back to sleep, and then up at 4. my eyes are burning, and im tired, but my mind is going and going. its amazing i function like this. i dont understand why this happens to me. and i really dont understand how 'normal people' just shut their eyes and sleep for hours and hours with no problem. i cant sleep more than 2-3 hours at a time without waking up, and thats with some sort of medication. im making a doctors appointment today. ive dealt with insomnia since i was 13, and honestly, im over it. im too old for this shit, lol. seriously though, id like to achieve some sort of normal sleep pattern... the main problem is staying asleep. i used to take half a valium to fall back asleep, but my doctor didn’t want to continue with that method for whatever reason. and i felt/feel like im med seeking when i push it. does anyone else have a problem with interrupted sleep? take anything that helps you fall back asleep, without making you groggy in the morning? thanks for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistryExperiment Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I have problems with this sometimes. I find if I take a klonopin, or (several) vistaril, I can stay asleep for longer, and sometimes even achieve a decent nights sleep. I can't do trazadone or ambien. I can't wake up to an alarm clock on trazadone. Ambien I eat in my sleep, get on message boards IN MY SLEEP, try to leave my apartment in my sleep, make phone calls in my sleep.... lovely stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lachesis Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Speak to your doctor again, and again, and again. I have not slept for weeks either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_girl_revolution0622 Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 I've dealt with the same thing since junior high/high school. I describe it as my mind's on fast forward but my body's exhausted. I've tried ambien and did the whole waling up, eating, DRIVING, and having conversations with people and not remembering it. I tried Rozerem for a while and it was better than Ambien but I still woke up groggy. Right now I'm on Sonata, which doesn't put you to sleep, it just helps you sleep after you've went to bed. The only thing though, I don't think it would necessarily help in your case because with Sonata, if I wake up, I'm up. I'm not going back to sleep. Last night I didn't fall asleep until 3, got woke up at 6-ish, and I couldn't go back to sleep. The plus side is that I don't feel groggy after I take it and my doctor said that I go to bed and I wake up in the middle of the night, I can take another one. So far I like it. Even if I only sleep for 3-5 hours, I feel rested. Sometimes my biggest problem is getting to the deep sleep stage and that's the healing stage for our bodies and minds. I absolutely have to have a fan on, some light music on, the t.v. turned way down, something. White noise sometimes gives our minds something to focus on long enough for us to fall asleep. I don't know you're preference of music, but try something soothing that doesn't have a lot of crescendos or other sounds that will pierce your conscience while you're trying to sleep. My favs to fall asleep to are Silverchair, Fiona Apple, some of Paramore or Duffy's slower songs. I have to have white noise even if I take my Sonata. Aromatherapy sometimes helps too. Lavender is used in a lot of lotions and bath soaks for babies because it supposedly helps them to relax . Hope you get sleep soon! You've got plenty of fellow insomniacs that know just how bad it can suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share Posted July 19, 2010 I've dealt with the same thing since junior high/high school. I describe it as my mind's on fast forward but my body's exhausted. I've tried ambien and did the whole waling up, eating, DRIVING, and having conversations with people and not remembering it. I tried Rozerem for a while and it was better than Ambien but I still woke up groggy. Right now I'm on Sonata, which doesn't put you to sleep, it just helps you sleep after you've went to bed. The only thing though, I don't think it would necessarily help in your case because with Sonata, if I wake up, I'm up. I'm not going back to sleep. Last night I didn't fall asleep until 3, got woke up at 6-ish, and I couldn't go back to sleep. The plus side is that I don't feel groggy after I take it and my doctor said that I go to bed and I wake up in the middle of the night, I can take another one. So far I like it. Even if I only sleep for 3-5 hours, I feel rested. Sometimes my biggest problem is getting to the deep sleep stage and that's the healing stage for our bodies and minds. I absolutely have to have a fan on, some light music on, the t.v. turned way down, something. White noise sometimes gives our minds something to focus on long enough for us to fall asleep. I don't know you're preference of music, but try something soothing that doesn't have a lot of crescendos or other sounds that will pierce your conscience while you're trying to sleep. My favs to fall asleep to are Silverchair, Fiona Apple, some of Paramore or Duffy's slower songs. I have to have white noise even if I take my Sonata. Aromatherapy sometimes helps too. Lavender is used in a lot of lotions and bath soaks for babies because it supposedly helps them to relax . Hope you get sleep soon! You've got plenty of fellow insomniacs that know just how bad it can suck thats exactly what it feels like: my mind is going, but the rest of me is exhausted. during this state, my thoughts are kinda obsessive, or sometimes just incoherent, fragmented ramblings, which is VERY annoying. and i dont think i ever hit that deep sleep stage. at least it doesnt feel like it. i used to need music or something in the back ground too. actually, im laying by my wall heater and was just thinking about how the sound is comforting. well, two options... get new meds and get some nice comforting noise thanks for the feedback everyone. it really is appreciated, and nice to be empathized with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_001 Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 How much is 'half a valium' ? With high doses there is an accumulation of metabolites. If you don't abuse it, 1 or 2 mg a day shouldn't be a problem. If it works, why not ? Doctors often are biased against benzos. Perhaps your doctor would be willing to prescribe clonazepam/Klonopin ? Pdocs often like that particular benzo. Something like 1 mg a day would not be irresponsible. But check the benzodiazepine equivalence tables, 1 mg is 'equivalent' to 10 mg Valium. Clonazepam withdrawal can be very unpleasant. There are lots of drugs, they all have their side effects. Have you tried a sleep study ? It may be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 How much is 'half a valium' ? With high doses there is an accumulation of metabolites. If you don't abuse it, 1 or 2 mg a day shouldn't be a problem. If it works, why not ? Doctors often are biased against benzos. Perhaps your doctor would be willing to prescribe clonazepam/Klonopin ? Pdocs often like that particular benzo. Something like 1 mg a day would not be irresponsible. But check the benzodiazepine equivalence tables, 1 mg is 'equivalent' to 10 mg Valium. Clonazepam withdrawal can be very unpleasant. There are lots of drugs, they all have their side effects. Have you tried a sleep study ? It may be worth it. at the time, i had a prescription for 10mg, which i halved if i woke up in the middle of the night. it actually helped, but was intended for panic attacks, so when my doctor started a different treatment approach he thought it would be unnecessary. i dont want to take lunesta/ambien and the like because i can get by with melatonin until it gets bad. the problem is, i dont know i need to take something additional until ive woken up and then proceed to lay awake for hours on end... which is why a fast acting benzo makes sense. and no, havent done a sleep study, but i should. curious as to how many people do those, actually. i wonder what it would indicate. i mean, really, what causes this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowen Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I'm not one to tote natural stuff, but have you tried something like a large amount of Valerian or some l-tryptophan? I take the latter, and it seems to help regulate sleep stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I just kinda skimmed, but have you ruled out bp-II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 I'm not one to tote natural stuff, but have you tried something like a large amount of Valerian or some l-tryptophan? I take the latter, and it seems to help regulate sleep stuff. I’ve tried valerian, and it absolutely didn’t work. haven’t tried the other you mentioned though. thanks for the suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 I just kinda skimmed, but have you ruled out bp-II? ive never experienced mania or depression. my thought process is always kinda sped up... and inner dialogue is none stop. i over think and obsess bout everything. just not an at ease person, and always restless/tense. ive been that way as long as i can remember. undoubtedly, it contributes to my issues with sleep. aside from that, my moods are pretty stable i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 I just kinda skimmed, but have you ruled out bp-II? ive never experienced mania or depression. my thought process is always kinda sped up... and inner dialogue is none stop. i over think and obsess bout everything. just not an at ease person, and always restless/tense. ive been that way as long as i can remember. undoubtedly, it contributes to my issues with sleep. aside from that, my moods are pretty stable i guess. Anxiety can be a symptom as well. It might be something to talk about with a pdoc. Take a look at this book sometime if you can, be it buying a copy, looking at a library, or skimming through it at a bookstore. It's not really appropriately named in your case, but it does a good job of going over "soft" bipolar, the cases where bipolar-ii doesn't look at whole lot like bipolar. <iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&bc1=000000&IS2=1&bg1=FFFFFF&fc1=000000&lc1=0000FF&t=crazyboards05-20&o=1&p=8&l=as1&m=amazon&f=ifr&md=10FE9736YVPPT7A0FBG2&asins=0071462376" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 I just kinda skimmed, but have you ruled out bp-II? ive never experienced mania or depression. my thought process is always kinda sped up... and inner dialogue is none stop. i over think and obsess bout everything. just not an at ease person, and always restless/tense. ive been that way as long as i can remember. undoubtedly, it contributes to my issues with sleep. aside from that, my moods are pretty stable i guess. Anxiety can be a symptom as well. It might be something to talk about with a pdoc. Take a look at this book sometime if you can, be it buying a copy, looking at a library, or skimming through it at a bookstore. It's not really appropriately named in your case, but it does a good job of going over "soft" bipolar, the cases where bipolar-ii doesn't look at whole lot like bipolar. <iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&bc1=000000&IS2=1&bg1=FFFFFF&fc1=000000&lc1=0000FF&t=crazyboards05-20&o=1&p=8&l=as1&m=amazon&f=ifr&md=10FE9736YVPPT7A0FBG2&asins=0071462376" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe> thank you for the recommendation, and feedback. I'll definitely take a look at it. Ive been living at the library lately, so shouldnt be a problem. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_001 Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Perhaps some kind of cognitive or behavioral therapy, CBT or something less formal, self-help. Lots of drugs that could help. Lunesta (eszopiclone) is not a great choice. Yes, it has FDA approval for long term use. As a generalization, it has been recognized that the z-drugs (zolpidem, zopiclone, zaleplon) have no advantages over the traditional hypnotics. Eszopiclone is somewhat new, but my bet is that it's not that different from from zopiclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopiclone). I'm not so sure it's a good idea take take melatonin every night. It should be safe to take it once in a while, but every day ? That it is 'natural' doesn't mean it's safe. Melatonin is a hormone. It probably affects sleep-wake cycles. Generally the body adapts in some way to almost everything you take daily. How much do you take ? Have you tried a time-released formula ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Perhaps some kind of cognitive or behavioral therapy, CBT or something less formal, self-help. Lots of drugs that could help. Lunesta (eszopiclone) is not a great choice. Yes, it has FDA approval for long term use. As a generalization, it has been recognized that the z-drugs (zolpidem, zopiclone, zaleplon) have no advantages over the traditional hypnotics. Eszopiclone is somewhat new, but my bet is that it's not that different from from zopiclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zopiclone). I'm not so sure it's a good idea take take melatonin every night. It should be safe to take it once in a while, but every day ? That it is 'natural' doesn't mean it's safe. Melatonin is a hormone. It probably affects sleep-wake cycles. Generally the body adapts in some way to almost everything you take daily. How much do you take ? Have you tried a time-released formula ? my doctor recommended melatonin, and is aware i take it regularly. i used to take other OTC's, like tylenol simply sleep, which he was not okay with. I'd been taking it every night for years, and apparently it can cause a 'toxic levels/build up.' dunno, actually, im still unclear on it. in any case, i started with 3mg melatonin, which worked okay. tried time released, which didnt work at all. and now take 5mg, which has been most helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorrel Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Your doc's objection to the Tylenol sleep aid is undoubtedly because of the Tylenol (acetaminophen) component, which can be pretty toxic, and not to the sleep aid component (diphenydramine.) If that worked for you, take Benadryl or any other product that contains only diphenhydramine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 <iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&bc1=000000&IS2=1&bg1=FFFFFF&fc1=000000&lc1=0000FF&t=crazyboards05-20&o=1&p=8&l=as1&m=amazon&f=ifr&md=10FE9736YVPPT7A0FBG2&asins=B000OTAJTO" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 do you guys think this would be better than melatonin? and for regular use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_001 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 do you guys think this would be better than melatonin? and for regular use? Benadryl/diphenhydramine every day is probably a bad idea. It's potent stuff. For example, high doses can cause hallucinations. You don't read much about the dangers of this drug on the web, but problems probably have been underreported. In my own experience with melatonin I've noticed that it actually disrupts sleep if I take it every day. Taking any drug for insomnia every day is a problem. Some of the heavier stuff like anticonvulsants and antipsychotics may work but they are not without risks and disadvantages. While some people seem to be able to take Restoril or a low dose of Seroquel every day that doesn't work for most people. Usually, developing tolerance is a matter of time. Perhaps a much lower dose of valium like 1 or 2 mg might work ? It's best to solve this problem without taking any drug, but that's easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_001 Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Your doc's objection to the Tylenol sleep aid is undoubtedly because of the Tylenol (acetaminophen) component, which can be pretty toxic, and not to the sleep aid component (diphenydramine.) If that worked for you, take Benadryl or any other product that contains only diphenhydramine. Tylenol simply sleep doesn't contain acetaminophen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorrel Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I stand corrected. I was thinking of Tylenol PM. How many sleepytime drugs does Tylenol need to market, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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