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People who do not spay / neuter


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I think I am getting too old to be able to stand this stupidity any longer

I may have to say "time is up" and not adopt any more bullies or bully mixes or dogs period ..maybe I need to move out of this world completely and just say fuck it

this gets heartbreaking I tell you and I think people are so fucked up when it comes to animals!

my poor dog is suffering because some fucking idiots thought mixing lab/boxer/pit...a few times would turn out something "cool" .. fuck these people ..they create unneeded suffering in this world then when they get kicked out of their appartments the dogs get tossed ditched ..left ..and pits ..omg they are everywhere right now!

My silly red girl beast's mom was found as a stray and killed because she was determined to be "aggressive" well she had puppies was starving and walking the streets looking for food ..COME ONNNNN!!!

I have this love hate relationship with rescues because I am not always "PC" with these groups ...I love them all but never get too involved with one or the other because they are all caught up in the glory and sacrifice and really I love dogs and having them in my life ..but the bottom line they rescue dogs and find them homes ..so I am grateful beyond reason for them existing

so here I have my joyful "otter dog" she has the eyes of a pit ...cheeks of a pit ..but face and mouth of a boxer ..the strangest body on the planet kind of like a curved reptile shape ..skinny pit legs and the saddest thing are her lab feet on all of this!!! seriously HUGE lab feet on those skinny legs...and excuse me but this was not meant to be in any genetic pool!!! We tell her she is the most beautiful dog on the planet but Jesus she is so fucked up .she even has a wierd point on her head..

she is my grandson's best friend curls completely around him during nap time and opens her mouth like a gator when he tickles her chin and he puts his head in her giant mouth

she "boxes" with me and plays ..omg she loves to just play!!!

I am so sure her hips are shit and her knees are really iffy ..if not iffy now those big assed feet and the way she behaves she will rip ..everything ...I will not let her be in pain and have an arsenal on hand because we have been here before ...a great realationship with the vet who gives me doses and comfort measure ideas when I need them ..but HUGE surgeries I can not do that ...I will not do it ..I do not do chemo or radiation or any of that ..not because of money but because i can not explain to a dog why I will put them through hell to get a few more years out of them ...

we go for quality not quantity around here

Honestly if I had been on that rescue I probably would not have supported amount of energy and funds this rescue used to resusitate these dogs..the other ones have already had hip and knees replaced just to go for walks like "normal" dogs ..


see why I am not so PC with rescues at times?

but I love them and support them all we have good relationships because I keep my mouth shut and they know us as a resource as well ...dogs are "forever" with us

but fuck people who create this ..you can get a dog spayed or neutered for free!!!

it is never going to change... people will always be this stupid and I am getting tired of watching it anymore

I think her right hip is a huge issue ...I am so worried...I keep her weight down ..her muscle tone good by swimming ..I try to limit her delight in this world but really it is almost cruel! She gets supplements and a raw diet ..I even do accupunture on her myself

all that and I know for a fact those big feet on those skinny legs with that arched back and those sad looking hips

she is only three :( fuck fuck fuck

I have done this for 35 years not including my growing up days when my folks adopted and help run the local rescues and we tagged along

either I am becoming jaded (I Hope not) or things have gotten worse at times over the years ..like now with pits ..Dobermans in the 80's.. omg it was awful they were every where

thank you

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With regards to the sweet puppy's structural issues...

Swim her as much as possible. Any chance you get to toss her in a body of water and make her swim? Do it. Musculature can compensate for a *lot* of structural issues in a dog, and prevent a good deal of the pain and degenerative damage associated with it.

I have what are, ultimately, rather controversial feelings on spay/neuter, animal rescue orgs, etc etc.

However, I agree. Most people are probably not responsible enough to prevent unwanted litters of puppies through responsible dog ownership, and they should alter their animals to prevent them surgically.

I can't attribute piss-poor structure solely to hap-hazard back alley breedings between loose, unaltered dogs, however.

More and more, the intentionally bred, "Pure breed" dogs are also suffering severe health consequences.

The German Shepherd Dog has seen almost a total destruction of its showlines' dogs' hips, hocks and elbows. Dysplastic to the point that the dog's movement would be hysterical if it weren't for the knowledge that the dog will live a lifetime of excruciating pain, as well as be bred and sire or birth puppies doomed to the same fate.

And don't get me started on brachycephalic breeds.

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There is an explosion of the cat population going on right now where I live!

We are not taking any more! NOBODY'S taking any more! The rescue group near my house consists of five ladies with 100 cats between them!

And the people up the street had a sign out a few months ago: free kittens. And now I hear kittens meowing at their house again. *facepalm*

@ Wondernut: my big guys are both boxer mixes, but we did rescue a pit in what was some more trailer park soap opera... the pitbull in question was mostly deaf! you had to scream at him to be heard at all.

He was a good dog, but once we got weight put back on him, he got bored and ate half my socks. His ex owner (there's the trailer-park soap opera) got his aunt and uncle to take the dog-cross country trucking in a big rig. That dog liked to ride in vehicles-most do, so it worked out well.

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thanks for the responses

Mud we take both dogs swimming every day and I think you would be really impressed with the mangificant muscle tone they have ..they are both very lean healthy dogs (except girls bone structure) they are role models for raw feeding ...but the joyful bounding is what is so hard on her ..she is so exuberant it is hard to contain her joy..does that make sense ..she is like this happy bubble of energy!! once in a while she will get so excited she levatates right up in the air and ends up on the dining room table shocked that it happened! She is well mannered I can take her anywhere but she has these moments when I walk in the door or we say "let's go to the beach" that she simply can not contain herself and bursts! ..we walk her to the water then she swims and swimes for at least an hour a day it is very very good for her and fun for us! ..and I know there is difference from your world and mine in dogs but we have a whole hell of a lot we agree on as I am sure you know ..training and working a dog is an absolute must they have to have meaning and purpose in life just like we do! ...loving them goes with out saying ..raw diets ..ALWAYS the best thing

...my boy dog now is a stellar example of an Amstaff line by line you can not find a flaw in him he is a sound meatbag! He was pulled out of a drug house as a puppy by a cop who fell in love with him and gave him to a friend who had a cat rescue of 55 cats up north of Seattle... he shared his space with two kittens at 4 months old to 6 months when I adopted him ....and now this big meaty bully snuggles in and purrs :)

I totally see where good people can have sound dogs and promote good breeding of animals... but not if they do not know what they are doing ..I just think there are enough dogs that most folks that want companions should try to adopt a pure bred rescued dogs first ...instead of going to a breeder if they want a companion

what I love about rescue groups

they rescue

get the dogs/cats cared for

put in foster homes

many do testing around kids, other animals and check for aggression (VIP with bullies to have the RIGHT dog with the RIGHT home)

they also many of them actually come to your house and make sure you have a good home with a fence and the means to keep a dog (not money but means)

they do really care

what I don't like

well I am not going into all that because it is mostly personal

but some will rescue to the point of stupid

and all have this idea that the way they do it is the only way (but that is the dog world for you in general there is so much stupid ego crap I can not stand it)

Stickler I love to think of your dogs off roading :) how fun!!! we have a great rescue plan for cats here instead of removing populations so others can move in.. they just remove neuter and return them to their homes that way they keep their turf and do not reproduce ...it seems the more cats people save or pull out ...the more move in and bless your heart for doing what you can!!! but I agree that is why we tell the rescues when we can take another dog they know better than to ask us ..we set rules because we can not handle anymore ..time ..money ...energy!!!

my girl is the first boxer mix I have ever had and she hits!!! it is so funny one day my girlfriend had her lab swimming with us and he mugged her she knee'd him and my girl jumped up and womped her with one big paw like a boxing kangaroo!!!!

she uses her paws like a praying mantus it is the funniest thing I have ever seen ..I have had mostly bullies for many years prior to that I just rescued fostered or adopted any dogs that needed it

honestly I have developed some serious bias in breeds and can understand how people want certian breeds over others depending on lifestyle that is for sure

not everyone should or could have a bully dog but they fit our personalties and lifestyle perfectly

BPladybug ..thank you ..we feel very lucky to have been able to do what we can for this breed ..I love these dogs so much

it all started when my brother won the Genesis award for a story on pitbull fighting in LA it was horrific..he brought his dogs to my house (he snagged them out of a pit and ran) ...we fell in love with this breed ..learned as much as we could and then focused our efforts on them ...the issue of their popularity for people who should not have dogs at all let alone pits ..well wannabe fighters began to really take hold here and the population exploded ...now they are everywhere and it is so sad..our shelters used to put them down now they call the rescue groups first if they find ones they think have a chance so we have tons of pit resuces in Washington state now

but why???? Because people do not fucking change and i am jaded and disheartened now ..I had so much hope and ambition and now it is like this is so fucked up I can not stand it ..something should have improved but it doesn't

OK a plug for bullies ..if you have a bad back as my husband does there is nothing like a bully ...they have these thick warm muscular backs and when you lay on your side they will snuggle that nice warm thick back against yours and help with the pain

I so hope this is just tendon stuff with her ..I can not replace her hip

but she is only 3 years old this is just so worrisome right now

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I don't understand why people allow for their animals to breed. Although I suspect that it's the same people who refuse to teach their children/teenagers that there is many a birth control option?

So it all stems from the same problem.

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I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding why you wouldn't do something like a hip replacement, in an otherwise healthy dog?

..I should not have said I wouldnt because that is not for sure ..it depends on how extensive the surgical intervention is vs quality of life and I have great vets who will help me determine that

I have to explain because that did not sound like I mean it ..both her siblings have had joint replacements and their lives have not improved the replacements allow nothing but moderate leash walking because the rest of their bodies are so out of proportion that they can not do much of anything really ..

they are still in tremendous pain from joint problems that keep occuring and the one who had the knee done now needs a hip and the other is just a huge mess of constant ortho visits ...so if the vet thinks that one hip would be it for her and she could have a wonderful life ..of course I I would do it ..but if the hip leads to the knees to the to the to the and on and on ...I can't ..does that make sense? I would not put a dog through repeated surgeries

if it is ONLY the hip fine ..but if not then we have to just keep her comfortable and let her enjoy her bliss now

if you could see her you would understand .. in my heart .I know this is not just the hip we are talking about she is a sad dog structurally and I can not rebuild her ..as much as I would love to ..

trust me as I have with all my dogs I will do whatever to give them a comfortable happy life ..but if it requires too much then I will not do it ..you can not sit them down and ask ..well I do ask them all the time what they want me to do and they do tell me in their own way ..but the reality is ..no repeated ortho surgeries that I will not do ..one yes but if it the beginning of a chain of them ..I cant it is not fair to her at all ...she would not understand the constant pain and recoveries ...or the other dogs I could be taking in

see why I am not so PC with rescue groups??? I am nothing if not honest

WinterRosie I think you probably have a good point there

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I wish I could have a bully. There's a really adorable pit/husky mix at the SPCA, and a very beautiful pit at the animal control. Unfortunately, I can't do it right now. I'm thinking that I might go for it this spring, so I'll have the whole summer to train the new dog outdoors before the confinement of winter sets in.<br><br>Of course, I still might not get what I want. My boyfriend wants a GSD puppy and not a bully rescue.

<div><br></div><div>As far as spay/neuter goes, I'm pretty much in favor of altering dogs for most pet owners. Folks who want to breed their animals have greater responsibility to care for their dogs/cats/(insert species here). That said, I'm very much in favor of rescues. They're usually at least housetrained. You have a pretty decent idea of how big they'll be (if they're not fully grown already). Granted, if the willy-nilly puppies disappear, it will be more difficult to find dogs who aren't too energetic, too barky, too big, or too aggressive for their original owners.</div>

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Tazlina wait until you are absolutely sure you can handle the amount of time attention and love these dogs need before you get one ..they are terriers with alligator jaws great big smiles and can be pretty damn neurotic if you do not have a scheduled life for them, time for exercise and they do need to be in constant training ..if dinner time is at 5pm just know there is going to be a face making bully noises (a sound I can not even begin to explain) at EXACTLY 5 min till the hour! they also can and a lot do have tremendous seperation anxiety and will sob scream yell and wail when you leave if you have not worked things out with them about time and place..they can be great appartment dogs if they know and trust your schedule but if you are impulsive and things change a lot they can be really pathetic

I made the mistake one time of leaving my old girl in the house while I was gardening it was around the 4th of July and the bedroom door slammed and locked her in ..she heard fireworks going off and I had headphones on while I cut the grass..and ate her way out of the bedroom ..it took her EXACTLY 15 min to rip a hole in the door to get out and then she started wailing because she could not get out of the front door fortunatly the mower stopped and I heard her and ran in the house ...she was a mess of exploded pit bull hair was everywhere (they blow coat like crazy when they freak out) and just so upset from the firecrackers .. the house was a disaster!

she was a stable wonderful dog and passed away of a horrid canine cancer about 2 years ago ...such a good dog but firecrackers or gun shots sent her normally placid behavior through the roof ...

you can NEVER be complacent with a bully ..but in return you have endless love ...a very easy to work with dog ...they will literally kill themselves to please you ..so you have to watch things like overheating them with play or when I take them swimming it is cold here so I have to be careful they do not get hypothermia ..

learn as much as you can and if you still want one and can handle the time and attention ..you will be very rewarded because the return from them is amazing to me


thank you I feel really lucky to have them I just get angry sometimes because I really wish things would get better but they don't ...they seem to be worse lately and I am sure the economy has a lot to do with it ..even before this people who should not ..got animals ..and then when it was too much work ..or they moved or whatever lame excuses I have heard...dumped them or worse ...I just do not understand it at all ..we domesticated these animals ..we are God to them ..they depend on us and we use and abuse them ....

I think it is because I was aware of her bone structure I am older and have been through so many cycles of adoption or fostering exposure makes these things evident to myself and my husband .. so many dogs have been with us in our ..horrid irresponsible people letting these dogs breed with reckless abandon with other dogs who have completely differing needs...like a lab and a pit ..come on what the fuck is that thinking????

anyway we swim swim swim ..there is very low impact they can get the edge off their crazy (and they can be crazy!) ..have fun ..build muscle tone and feel good ...good warm up first ..then a minimum of hour at a time day of swimming or other controled careful exercise ...I believe little to no fat on a dog and really good muscle tone is the best noninvasive precaution to off set horrific bone structure ..it is not the answer but it helps prolong the need for invasive care

my rant

if you do not know what the fuck you are doing do not let two unaltered dogs be together PERIOD all you do is cause pain and suffering

second if you do breed for christs sakes learn about the breed ..LIVE THE BREED ..hang around the breed you need years and years of time with a breed and then ..only then ... breed UP ..use a very sound dog who has a good health liniage ... with an even more sound dog OF THE SAME BREED with an even better liniage! ..no lab poodle mixes.or shitz/shepherds or chihua/retrievers....there is a reason for a breed to develop certain standards for the activities they participate in ... that is just freaking cruel and then have preapproved homes set up for the puppies before you even let them mate...good breeders have a wiating line of good people for puppies!

if you want a companion dog first find a good rescue who has fostered a dog and can give you the low down and offers a trial period for you to take the dog home ...see if it works with your family and lifestyle

they are forever yours

funny thing is I know I am preaching to the choir here it just feels good to get my anger and disapointment out

I really had high hopes in my youth for things getting better in this world and really sometimes I think they are just getting worse ..or I am just a jaded old lady now

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I wasn't aware the United States *had* breed standards.

Wait... you mean this?


2009 AKC/Eukanuba Best-in-Breed

I'm not sure, but I *think* that dog might have some German Shepherd in him a few generations back.

[Okay, fine. More like 10 generations back. Maybe.]

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My neighbor had a purebred akita. My mother had a questionable mutt that never went to the vet, thus never spayed. My Lucy is a product of my neighbor leaning over the fence and asking my mom if she wanted to breed their dogs.

This was in 1999. My mom has gone through about 5-6 dogs since then that she's had since puppies and doesn't get why Lucy, who is going to be 11 in October, has outlast all of her dogs.

Um, regular vet visits, foods, treats, and flea preventative to address her allergies, and monthly heartworm meds. Plus, I keep her in my house instead of the backyard to scare off robbers!

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BTW, has anyone tried not to spay a female cat? The first cat I had as an adult, I was going to try to leave intact for a while by keeping her inside the house during her heat. To which she responded by squeezing out in the space around the dryer vent and going to get laid posthaste, returning 3 days later very hungry and with a big grin on her face.

My new kitty I'm afraid I had spayed while still in first heat...I did try to get her out of heat by the most embarrassing method you ever heard of: wanking her with a lubed Q-tip. This is actually the recommended method.

She wouldn't hold still long enough to have a little kitty-gasm-she kept squirming around in enjoyment.

I'm afraid female cats who don't get spayed are really, really determined to get themselves knocked up.

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I share many sentiments about the rescue people.

I have a cat who was rescued - and he is healthy, stays inside, and is desexed.

A while ago you might remember that I decided to adopt a puppy from a rescue shelter. Who then passed away from parvo because the rescue lady told me he was vaccinated and he wasn't. I had him put down before the parvo got bad, because I didn't want him to suffer through that. He was the most beautiful dog I'd ever met and we bonded so well.

The rescue home where my dog and cat came from is a terrible place. I didn't realise this when i got my cat, because at the time no one was there, my cat was wondering around outside and when i called the lady to ask about visiting to rescue a cat, she told me to just pick one up and take it with me. So thats how I got my darling kitty.

They have SO many dogs there it is just disgusting. They aren't clean, they live in cages and they get sick and die. They don't get to go walking every day. They are there for months and months because in this part of the country everyone either has animals or can't have them, so no one can rescue more. I think that if you don't have the money to desex, vaccinate and treat a dog like it is supposed to be treated - well fed, given love, the chance to go walking and playing and have attention - then you shouldn't be able to run a shelter that large.

If you have dogs that you can't give away, for years.. I don't think they should be kept locked up in such filthy conditions. If they get sick, they should be treated or put down, and if they are going to be there that long, they should be treated like permanent pets.

I am still so sad that my puppy died :(

And so glad that my kitty is healthy, despite coming from that place.

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I am still sad your puppy died too Isis ..I do remember that and it was so horrible

everyone who is into dogs on any level should have no less than three solid long term mentors

mine were all three seriously out of their minds ..but what I learned about living with and loving dogs from them was ..well they imprinted me early on and it stuck!

of my teachers in life ran this drill team group .. I joined and really all I did was trip over my own feet ..I just was never good at it but..I had an Eqyptian pharaoh hound who pulled my one year old in a cart so that helped add to teh fun and mission for rescued animals shown in a fun productive light ...

silly story but wanted to share ..I love peoples dog stories :)

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  • 2 months later...

Bump well I have now proof that being stupid with putting two dogs together either accidently or on purpose really is a shitty thing to do ...I am so freaking sad ..my most joyful bully the one I mentioned previously in this thread ...bully/boxer/lab..what the fuck is wrong with this world ..is an ortho mess

we finally had her X-rayed and I will admit freely I knew but put it off because I also knew once I had evidence ..well it was worse than I thought

1 left knee blown ..right knee ready to go

2 hip displasia

3 three bulging disks in her back

4 spondylosis

5 something else I can not remember the name of but will eventually cause a loss of continence and ability to walk

fuck ...fuck fuck

so we will go see the ortho surgeon and talk to him ..I do not have thousands of dollars period ...even if I did I will only do what she needs to remain comfortable and happy ...an ACL repair for sure is needed and of course we will do that

so sadly my little girl who is only 3 years old ..has a mismatched puzzle of a body that is causing a horrific number of painful problems becuase people are so fucking stupid! we domesticated animals it is our damn responsibility to take care of them and not let this happen

yes there are good breeders but mostly NO there are not :(

I am going to order some accupuncture needles today and start that and some poultices to the joints ..it also works well to help sooth them ..she has tramadol and an NSAID and looks like she feels REALLY good in the tramadol!

Dogs get such high doses of medications it always amazes me

I am so bummed about her but I will do what is best ..and there is a point I will stop and let her go I am sure ..but not until she tells me

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I am so, so, so, sorry to hear your bad news. Surprised, too, as those are the kinds of problems I tend to associate with poorly bred purebreeds.

You probably know this already, but just in case, I've seen dogs with serious joint issues benefit a lot from glucosamine. It doesn't replace surgeries or pain meds, but it does seem to increase the time before/between surgeries, and to reduce thenpain meds.

A friend of mine swears by accupuncture, for treating joint issues in her older dogs, mainly. I hope your girl benefits from it as much as hers have.

I've also known a couple of dogs who did really well with hydrotherapy - physical therapy, basically, done in water so as to work on increasing range of motion, without the risk of doing further damage to the muscles and joints. I don't know if that's available where you are, but if so, it's definitely worth a look.

I know there are other kinds of physical therapy for dogs, and other nutritional interventions, but the specifics aren't coming to me just now.

It's so hard to get that kind of news. I am always a disaster when either of my dogs has any kind of health issue. It can be so hard trying to figure out what's best for them, what's feasible for you, what's realistic, medically speaking. Awful.

I do think you have some good options, though, for increasing/maintaining bother her quality and length of life. But I'm so sorry you're having to sort it all out, especially for such a young dog.

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That is so sad, I'm sorry to hear it. Accupuncture really can be grat for animals, I have heard. Some do respond to the pain stuff well....

Awful about your dog.

The spray neuter issue.... shudder. One of my earlier bf lived in rural PA and had a bunch of semi feral cats (his family did) and they all inbred and half the kittnes were deformed and blind and it gave me the utter creeps (the whole house did actually) and they would feed them but not much else and I just wanteed to DIE when I saw them.

Take care of your pets, damn it. They deserve love and respect, too. I'm not even a dog person and I love my dogs. geez.

So yeah, he was a genetic freak. Totally high IQ trapped in a crazy rural PA land. Come to think of it, Mr. A is somewhat similar except his parents were smart too, and they didn't have feral kittens quite the reverse they had hunting dogs nad took EXTREMELY good care of them.

It was the kid they weren't so good at, heh.

I must have some weird PA thing.... derailing thread ending in 3...2... 1.... sorry.

I'm sorry about your dog, man. She's in my thoughts. It sounds like you are doign everything right. I too don't have thousands to spend on dog ccare and was SO RELIEVED when our Big Dog made it through getting rattlesnake bit without us spending 3 K. If we had done that with Mr. A's current situation, we'd be screwed totally now.


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Reminds me, time to get Dangercat nipped... his grapes need to go.

Since our cats are inside-outside, I pretty much spay the females as soon as I think they are going to come into heat...often miscalculating, meaning the vet charges more...oops. My fricken' inn is full, so I'm a total spay/neuter nazi. I end up seeing the dumped rejects of people letting their animals be "natural."

Our area is on the edge of town...and people just drive out her and dump unwanted animals...

I think that's how I ended up with the poor Lab in the yard...he's not a roamer by nature at all. Got to rehome the poor fart . I'm shelling out $60 a month for dogfood alone. He's handsome, well-behaved, housebroken, and tractable, really a good dog except for the crying. He'd make a wonderful dog for a hard-of-hearing person :P.

I spent about 3 1/2 hours working on enclosing more of the yard...when I'm completely done, my crazy goober dog ( who was ALSO likely dumped-he just showed up in the driveway as a month-old puppy in the middle of a 97-degree drought) will have a big run instead of a long tie-out...he'll have about the same sized area to romp around in, but no cable, and a better view. Plus he'll be at the back door so I can go out and play with him more.

I have to make up a flyer with a pic to rehome the latest kitten off the freeway while she's still twee and cutesy!

I haven't bought or deliberately sought out any cat or dog as an adult. They basically sort of arrive.:blink: Or in one cat's case, invade-we have a cat door, and he decided he jolly well lived here as a wee bastard. He's a big bastard now, hisses all the time.


Actually, I take that back, I bought a dog for $20 from some neighbor teens-the kids were all on drugs and they were doing an awful job of taking care of his injured tail...I gave him to someone who wanted a little terrier b/c he was way too much of a morning person for me. He walked 30 pounds off his new dogmommy :), so I think that worked out nicely.

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I'm so sorry your dog is going through this. There are a great many people in the world I dislike but irresponsible breeders top the list many days. Well, if I've been in a kill shelter recently then any breeder hits the list.

Definitely the glucosamine and chondroitin if you aren't already, it makes a huge difference. If you can arrange anywhere to do hydrotherapy I've seen many dogs respond well to it. It's good for them to be able to get the exercise, build some muscle mass while not putting additional strain on their poor joints.

I know a lot of people don't like the Hills Science Diet foods. I can understand that, the ingredients are crap. But, some of them really work. I don't think I'd ever recommend them as a company to get a maintenance diet for a healthy pet from. I've seen clients with good results from J/D though. One vet I worked with was able to half her dog's metacam dose after a few months on J/D. It's not for everyone, and it doesn't work for every dog, but it could be worth a try.

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I am so sorry to read about your poor dogs health problems!!

I'm going to borrow this thread for some of my own pet issues, hope that's ok.

On the topic of sterilizing - I'm torn. I enjoy owning pets who have been through that surgery. I don't think I, personally, would do as well with a pet who hadn't been altered. Lucky for me, there are pounds and humane societies who alter all the animals who come through their doors and I have found 2 good dogs that way. Cats I have been given I alter because I can't stand the female heats (omg the noise, and they always find a way out) nor the males need to mark (there are stray cats who spray the outside of my house, and then my males in the past found the need to mark all the windows, farking stinks and no more marking spray only does so much). At the same time, there would never be advancements in breeds if responsible people didn't take initiative.

However, as far as breeding goes, I think a responsible breeder can mix breeds and do well. I mean, that's how Flat-coated retrievers came about! My SIL found a flat-coat mix on the side of the road and he looks nearly breed perfect - mom was a lab so in the breed profile.

My friend has a dog that showed up on my door step. He's a neurotic mess due to being dumped several times. He was chipped by the pound, and according to his chip had had 5 homes in 3 years, they warned me if I brought him in, he'd likely just be put down - other than crap teeth and a little thin, he was in good health so I passed him on to the one person I knew could work with a husky mix (not me, my kids are too little for me to devote time needed to that breed). He is also clearly a husky-GSD mix. He is beautiful, tall, long sturdy legs, can "talk" like a husky and bark when he wants to too. His issues are abandonment, mostly, and now that he's medicated for anxiety, he is the perfect dog for them (been with them 5 years at Thanksgiving).

And then there is my dog, who, while likely being mixed with a pit - has the pit "smile" and cheeks, a big thick chest and is has just super musculature (is a "medium" sized dog but weighs near 60 pounds and it's all muscle and fur) - also has the coat of a flat-coated retriever which keeps him warm (and keeps strangers from noticing his pit traits, who has ever seen a black pit with a longish coat?) and oddly the softest mouth I've ever had in a dog - he doesn't do sweekie toys because he doesn't bite down on soft things (although he does chew on bones just fine).

So I have a hard time thinking that all breeders must be bad, or that mixing breeds is always bad, I just think we need more responsible dog owners who will breed with thought and care.

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they always find a way out

Ours seem to find their way out around the dryer vent. Come back later with giant satisfied grins on their faces. Then it's off to the vet's.

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For the dog with joint issues, have you looked at a joint supplement with green lipped mussels? It's kind of the new thing in Joint care. It's really high in glucosamine and condroitin. I have my 11 year old akita mix on phycox, which has the green lipped mussels and it's made a huge difference with her and my stairs. It's a little harder to find, but I think you can order it online. More readily available at both petco and petsmart is Greenies new joint care treat

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@ lilac...poor neurotic doggie...

The one I took home from the gas station, that's what he's like-I don't think he was abused, I think somebody just dumped him off up there b/c he was getting on their nerves...

Apparently, labrador retrievers just freak out when not in their normal environment, so he's only now getting calmed down.

Have to get him neutered too...it's kind of like pokemon-except in reverse, gotta snip 'em all...

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Stickler, have you talked to your vet about medication options? The dog I know is now on a doggie dose of Prozac. They've tried weaning him off, but if they have an extra long day he he gets freaked out and either tries to escape to find people, or starts to chew on his legs or lick his butt obsessively. They pretty much are at the point where they accept he'll be on Prozac for life - but hey, it is amazing the difference! On it, he can be left alone for 2-3 hours at a time and NOT destroy the house/the fence/his feet. Before medication, 30 minutes was pushing it.

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Stickler, have you talked to your vet about medication options? The dog I know is now on a doggie dose of Prozac. They've tried weaning him off, but if they have an extra long day he he gets freaked out and either tries to escape to find people, or starts to chew on his legs or lick his butt obsessively. They pretty much are at the point where they accept he'll be on Prozac for life - but hey, it is amazing the difference! On it, he can be left alone for 2-3 hours at a time and NOT destroy the house/the fence/his feet. Before medication, 30 minutes was pushing it.

I think if he's in a fenced area with Tornado, he'll be a lot happier...they can't be too close together on tie-outs. He just needs a fenced run...and eventually a new home.

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I am so sorry to read about your poor dogs health problems!!

I'm going to borrow this thread for some of my own pet issues, hope that's ok.

However, as far as breeding goes, I think a responsible breeder can mix breeds and do well. I mean, that's how Flat-coated retrievers came about! My SIL found a flat-coat mix on the side of the road and he looks nearly breed perfect - mom was a lab so in the breed profile.


So I have a hard time thinking that all breeders must be bad, or that mixing breeds is always bad, I just think we need more responsible dog owners who will breed with thought and care.

My biggest problem with breeding, particularly deliberate mixed breeds, is the pet overpopulation problem. I don't know how someone can justify pumping out more dogs when there are hundreds dying in shelters every single day. Yes, many reputable breeders will tell you that there dogs never end up in shelters. This may, or may not, be true. I've met obvious purebreds in evals and I've followed chips to breeders who no longer practice and don't want the dog back. It's hit or miss.

Even if the breeder never has dogs end up in a shelter they are still taking a home away from a dog in a shelter. If someone has room in their life for a pet then they could save a life. Or, they could go through a breeder and allow another homeless dog to die. The stakes are high in the animal world. Particularly if you happen to be a breed/cross with a bad reputation or any big black dog. Providing a humane euthanasia doesn't make the situation any more right.

There are plenty of breeds that I absolutely adore. When I'm in a position to have another dog I will put in applications with every breed specific rescue that I would be suited for. I'll also keep an eye out at local rescues and shelters. The right dog will magically appear just like every other pet I've been lucky enough to have in my life :)

Sorry if I've preached, it's a topic close to my heart. I've done vet stuff including shelter med and convenience euthanasias for far too long. I don't want to be the one helping to kill a perfectly worthy animal for the crime of being homeless. When we get to the point where shelters are not overflowing then I think we can talk about responsible breeding and developing new crosses. Until then I'm a big fan of the don't breed or buy while shelter pets die philosophy.

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I do ahave to agree here... we rescued Little Dog (hey, he was not my style, but little son picked him out) he was over 2 and totally unhousebreakable and ate so many of my shoes he had to becaome an outside dog due to fear that I might kill him.... But, he has a big yard, all his shots, a chip, and is a dear little thing. He gest plenty of attnetio from big dog and us when we go outside, and a nice little area in the garage to sleep when it's cold.

I'd rescue him all over again, although I do think he is older than the age stated by the shelters. I wish I had my shoes back, sigh. Big dog is an Australian cattle dog, we happened to pick her up fo $100 at a horse show but just because seh was the cutest puppy we have ever seen, i dont think she is that pure breed but she is so damn PRETTY we get people coming up to us all the time asking the breed. She is smart, too (hearder dogs are like that).

We have a couple of cool dogs, man, and neither of them are particularly pure bred. My brother and sis in law wnet the pure bred boxer route and she is cute and all. But, no way was I pay over a thousand dollars for a dog. Not when there are so many waiting to be killed off. A dog is a dog is a dog, you know?


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