Jump to content
CrazyBoards.org
Sign in to follow this  
withing

sometimes, nice people just suck too

Recommended Posts

I live with three people at the moment (the when and why I moved out of my RV is a long story). The lady who rents the house and rents out the rooms is originally from Germany, and recently moved here from London. The man is from France, and the other roommate is from China. This gives the house a nice international feel and not a little head-bumping as cultures clash (The German can't understand why the Chinese lady leaves her light on for the dogs, they're only dogs, right? how wasteful! Not that she's complaining or anything, she just doesn't understand it. :rolleyes: )

But their favorite topic seems to be "let's talk about how horrible America(ns) is. Seriously. Americans can't cook. Americans are overweight (um, so's the French guy). Americans are lazy. Americans are stupid. Americans don't do anything but sit around and watch TV... the list goes on. And if I so much as defend my country, then I'm being too sensitive. I mean, I'm not lazy, I'm not stupid, I'm the only one in this house that doesn't HAVE a fucking TV, and I can damned well cook -- and they fucking know it. Of course, I must be the exception to the rule. :wall:

I don't bash their countries. I don't spout stereotypical and racist ideas at them and I've asked them time and again to please not do it to me. They do it anyway. Maybe it's the only thing they can agree on. I dunno. I've taken to spending most of my time in my room. The German lady, she's worried now that I spend too much time here (I plead homework) and thinks it's something she's done. I told her flat out, more than once that I'm tired of them bashing my country - she said I was being too sensitive (she's very passive aggressive about her insults, not like the French guy who flat out says he hates it here and would go back to France if he could afford to).

How am I supposed to share a conversation with them if all they can do is tell me how stupid, fat, and lazy I and my country are??? Normally, and separately, they're pretty nice people (most of the time) but get them together and it's "let's bash America(ns)." It fucking sucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dunno what to say to that except that SUCKS. sounds like you've made your feelings quite clear and she's just not getting it (or choosing to ignore the issue). i don't know what else *reasonable* you could say... i can think of all kinds of unreasonable things though :angry2:

it's awesome you can see that they probable are just nice people with an "exclusive" way to bond with each other. they obviously see you as above these reproaches - maybe they think that *you* think you are, too? like maybe they don't get that while you might not own a TV, you still feel a common bond with American people (rather than a disdain for them).

i think it's rude in the same way that bashing someone else's family is rude... the criticisms might have merit, but dammit they're YOUR family, yanno? some sensitivity is in order.

canadians bitch about americans a LOT. yeah we do have our cultural clashes, but i really hate how it's almost part of our national identity to be anti-american. politics aside, we're all people.

maybe someone else has an effective way to get your point across so you don't have to spend so much time in your room...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, I just reread your email and I have to ask, where are you all living?

Are you living in the U.S.? Pretty incredible that they came here and now hate it.

The wanted their liberty, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Too bad they are not appreciative.

I lived in Europe for a number of years, twenty years ago. Certainly bashing americans is a popular sport there.

I think the most serious issue is how much it is disturbing you and upsetting you.

They are being rude, and you deserve your peace of mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Recluse

Oh god, that would drive me up the fucking wall.

"Derp derp! I'M MAKING A BLANKET STATEMENT ABOUT AN ENTIRE POPULATION OF PEOPLE...(but if you do it to me, I'll tear your fucking face off)."

You could always return it with equally insulting blanket-statement stereotypes about their respective nationalities and point out that they're doing the exact same thing? Maybe the reversal would be enough to wake them up to how absolutely obnoxious that is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it were me.... I think I'd try to not take the bashing personlly but would be tempted to respond with a few "and why are you here, then, again"s?

Anna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Recluse

If it were me.... I think I'd try to not take the bashing personlly but would be tempted to respond with a few "and why are you here, then, again"s?

This x >9000. Or something like, "If you can't afford to go home, you could always have yourself deported?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, I just reread your email and I have to ask, where are you all living?

Are you living in the U.S.? Pretty incredible that they came here and now hate it.

The wanted their liberty, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Too bad they are not appreciative.

I lived in Europe for a number of years, twenty years ago. Certainly bashing americans is a popular sport there.

I think the most serious issue is how much it is disturbing you and upsetting you.

They are being rude, and you deserve your peace of mind.

They wanted their liberty? Because of all that political represention they have going on in France, Germany, and England? I'd guess the Chinese girl is here for school, and will have to go back when she's done.

I have to say, I have a problem with your assuming both that people coming here, from wherever, are doing so in search of some illusory dream of liberty, and that, once here, they ought to be "appreciative." Who knows how or why anyone ends up anywhere? What they're looking for, how long they'll stay?

And honestly, I'm not a big fan of Americans as a group, myself. They aren't big fans of things like critical or analytical thought, books, science, compassion, or actually using their gym memberships. It's not entirely their fault, but it is, nonetheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Recluse

And honestly, I'm not a big fan of Americans as a group, myself. They aren't big fans of things like critical or analytical thought, books, science, compassion, or actually using their gym memberships. It's not entirely their fault, but it is, nonetheless.

Because you know 308 million people can't possibly be all that different from one another, amirite? They must all be the same, just like <insert bullshit blanket stereotypes about French, German, and Chinese people here>."

Let's not be just as bad as her roommates. The perception of Americans as fat, uneducated, and superstitious is as much an unfair blanket stereotype as saying that French people reek and don't shave, German people are all blonde, beer-sucking Hitler youth, and Chinese people have tiny penises and are all good at math.

Edited for content: I was being mean to you, and I apologize.

Edited by Recluse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest withing

They wanted their liberty? Because of all that political represention they have going on in France, Germany, and England? I'd guess the Chinese girl is here for school, and will have to go back when she's done.

I have to say, I have a problem with your assuming both that people coming here, from wherever, are doing so in search of some illusory dream of liberty, and that, once here, they ought to be "appreciative." Who knows how or why anyone ends up anywhere? What they're looking for, how long they'll stay?

Actually, the Chinese lady has lived here for about 20 years and has no plans to move back to her own country. The other two will most likely return when they can.

Me? I assume nothing. I have had friends who come here to stay because they come from countries that suck ass (their words) and friends that come for school and go back when they're done. I've had friends that just end up here because this is where they ended up and for no other reason. I have tons of friends from all over the world. Some of them aren't too fond of the USofA but some of them think it's the best place in the world. MOST of them do not make a habit of bashing my country in front of me, which is why this lot is getting on my nerves.

And honestly, I'm not a big fan of Americans as a group, myself. They aren't big fans of things like critical or analytical thought, books, science, compassion, or actually using their gym memberships. It's not entirely their fault, but it is, nonetheless.

I *like* America. I'm glad I was born here and I'm proud of my country. And I'm honest-to-god-tired of people saying that we're some kind of generic, lazy, uneducated, overweight people when we are sure as hell not. I love books. I'm fucking compassionate when the situation calls for compassion, I have a freaking gym membership WHICH I USE, and hey! so do most of the other members! I see them whenever I go to the gym! So, I can't be the only American to do so (wow, I sound like I'm talking to my roommates...)

Stereotypes are wrong and it sucks... no matter who is spouting them. Honestly, didn't think I'd come on here and see this kind of shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Recluse

Honestly, didn't think I'd come on here and see this kind of shit.

Didn't you get the memo? Digging on Americans is all the rage now. We're all a load of overweight, superstitious dumb-asses with no great worth in life, no depth or breadth of culture, and we want to destroy the world and rape its resources, taking greedy, awful capitalism everywhere we go. We are the sole reason that war exists on this planet, we are the root of evil, we are the embodiment of Satan in flesh.

Did I remember everything? Oh yeah, I'm supposed to hate myself.

After all, it's the edgy, in thing to do.

Edited by Recluse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, I can't speak for other people, but as a European I might have some inside knowledge on this.

bpladybug is right;

Certainly bashing americans is a popular sport there.

We do it all the time. I do it too. The thing is, that we critizise our own countries as well. Personally, I wouldn't feel offended at all if someone bashed my country - I would probably join in. The difference is that a lot of americans seem to think that their country is better, or as bpladybug put it;

The wanted their liberty, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Too bad they are not appreciative.

I don't even know where to begin with this statement. There are so many problems in America (look at the statistics), that even mentioning liberty, freedom, bravery and America in the same sentence is a bit of stretch. On top of that, the American government somehow keep coming to the conclusion that invading other countries is not only the right thing to do, but their duty. Why is the american government so eager to control/eliminate Iran's nuclear programme (which America helped introduce)? Amercans are told that it's a threat to America because they might develop nuclear weapons in the future, and use them against America. They tend to forget that America's nuclear programme has been developing these weapons for a long time, making America an enormous threat to the rest of the world. They also forget, that America is the only country with nuclear weapons who has ever attacked other nations with them.

So Europeans talk about all this crap with America- obesity, reality shows, poverty, politics, ignorance. There might me some statistical truth in this, but the real reason that Europeans do it, is that to the rest of world, America is delusional, bigoted, full of it self, arrogant and oblivious to it's own issues. It's this nationalism we can't stand. Of course, when Europeans meet nice, bright people from America, these are usually consdered "exceptions to the rule", as withing wrote.

ETA: Spelling.

Edited by graduation day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Recluse

Wow CB. Great job fagging up someone's well-meaning thread with the same bullshit she was venting about.

No really, you should be proud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the thing to remember, at least for Europeans; is that the European UNION is a UNION in name only. Most of these countries (or at least their peoples) were at loggerheads for most of the past 1000+ years and still have disagreements and stereotypes that they apply to each other.

Anti-americanism is one of the few topics that ALL of these nations (yes, EVEN the french) can agree upon, and is thus a non-controversial discussion point when they gather together, even in a college dorm in America.

In your specific case Withing, it IS difficult to deal with. I would find living in America difficult to deal with, much as I find my present lifestyle in my own country to be difficult, due in part to my awareness that my privileged economic/material position is based upon the subjugation of resources and people - at least in an economic sense, if no longer in an apparent colonial one - in countries where the living standards are far lower than mine.

But at the same time, I think it is appropriate to at least explain that these lines of discussion make you uncomfortable and that you feel ganged up on, and it is not something you care to subject yourself to. Especially around Germans, French and Chinese, whose own national records of colonisation (France), war (Germany - holocaust anyone?) and wholesale human rights abuses (China) should leave their own patriotic consciences far from spotless. If it was within you, on a certain level I would suggest to respond in kind, however, from the tone of your message I gather you wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

dc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point wasn't bashing individual americans based on the stereotypical notion that they are lazy, stupid and overweight. I'm trying to explain why Europeans make a sport out of bashing America in general. Personally, I think bashing America based on these stereotypes is ridiculous, as it draws attention from the real issue. While trying to explain, I absolutely did bash the american government and the image which is projected globally. A country's people is not equal to it's governement or policies, I know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously turning this into a bashing america thread is ridiculous. No one is perfect. NO country is perfect. Everyone everywhere's got issues

The thing is, American culture : the tv shows, the news, the politics... isn't representative of america as a whole.

Not everyone needs biggest looser, not everyone is a teen mom. Not everyoen is shallow and fat and lazy and stupid.

There are plenty of fat lazy stupid people form other coutnries too.

My neighborhood is filled with health conscious bike riding book reading folks. Who love to shop at the co op, many are vegan or vegetarian. There are restaurants with vegan and gluten free options in teh neighborhood. There are even restaurants that are specifically vegetarian.

We aren't all big mac eating stupid fatties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And honestly, I'm not a big fan of Americans as a group, myself. They aren't big fans of things like critical or analytical thought, books, science, compassion, or actually using their gym memberships. It's not entirely their fault, but it is, nonetheless.

Because you know 308 million people can't possibly be all that different from one another, amirite? They must all be the same, just like <insert bullshit blanket stereotypes about French, German, and Chinese people here>."

Let's not be just as bad as her roommates. The perception of Americans as fat, uneducated, and superstitious is as much an unfair blanket stereotype as saying that French people reek and don't shave, German people are all blonde, beer-sucking Hitler youth, and Chinese people have tiny penises and are all good at math.

Edited for content: I was being mean to you, and I apologize.

I missed the mean, so no worries. It happens.

But you're right, that I wasn't being terribly clear. In referring to, "Americans as a group," I thought it kind of went without saying that I was talking in generalities, and am well aware of the differences between individuals and any group.

That said, my perceptions of Americans come from, you know, living amongst them. From assorted research consistently demonstrating things like their disbelief in evolution, or their lack of esteem for education and intelligence. And then there's how easily they allow themselves, as a group, to be led to act against their own best interests.

There are always distinctions between individuals, and any group of which they might be part. Still and all, I am not a fan of Americans as a group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, didn't think I'd come on here and see this kind of shit.

Didn't you get the memo? Digging on Americans is all the rage now. We're all a load of overweight, superstitious dumb-asses with no great worth in life, no depth or breadth of culture, and we want to destroy the world and rape its resources, taking greedy, awful capitalism everywhere we go. We are the sole reason that war exists on this planet, we are the root of evil, we are the embodiment of Satan in flesh.

Did I remember everything? Oh yeah, I'm supposed to hate myself.

After all, it's the edgy, in thing to do.

No, for me at least, it's nothing to do with that. It's about the continual suck of living amongst people who insist on being not particularly smart, interesting, or attractive. My subjective experience of my fellow citizens, which is just as valid as anyone else's, however different from theirs it might be.

Notice, I'm not telling anyone who's experience has been different that he or she is somehow wromg, just stating what mine has been.

Withing, I'm sorry to have made assumptions about your Chinese roommate. It's just that there are a surprising lot of Chinese students in the sciences at my school, for most of whom staying here when they're done with school is not a viable option, for whatever reasons. And I do notice them seeming to kind of make a point of not really engaging with American culture, understandably enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll cop to the shallow, overweight, and lazy. But that's where I draw the line, I've got my pride.

Chyldedark, that is a really good point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate it when people make sweeping generalizations about Americans. It also drives me crazy though when you're friends with someone from America and you say something about say for example Bush and they freak out like he was their brother. Doesn't matter if the person is democrat or republican. Or when you can't ask someone to talk a little quieter as you've a headache because suddenly you're calling them a loud American.

I think you guys (and I love you guys) get such a hard time from ignorant xenophobes that oftentimes you can become hypersensitive.[sweeping generalization]

Edited by Antecedent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, I can't speak for other people, but as a European I might have some inside knowledge on this.

bpladybug is right;

Certainly bashing americans is a popular sport there.

We do it all the time. I do it too. The thing is, that we critizise our own countries as well. Personally, I wouldn't feel offended at all if someone bashed my country - I would probably join in. The difference is that a lot of americans seem to think that their country is better, or as bpladybug put it;

The wanted their liberty, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Too bad they are not appreciative.

I don't even know where to begin with this statement. There are so many problems in America (look at the statistics), that even mentioning liberty, freedom, bravery and America in the same sentence is a bit of stretch. On top of that, the American government somehow keep coming to the conclusion that invading other countries is not only the right thing to do, but their duty. Why is the american government so eager to control/eliminate Iran's nuclear programme (which America helped introduce)? Amercans are told that it's a threat to America because they might develop nuclear weapons in the future, and use them against America. They tend to forget that America's nuclear programme has been developing these weapons for a long time, making America an enormous threat to the rest of the world. They also forget, that America is the only country with nuclear weapons who has ever attacked other nations with them.

So Europeans talk about all this crap with America- obesity, reality shows, poverty, politics, ignorance. There might me some statistical truth in this, but the real reason that Europeans do it, is that to the rest of world, America is delusional, bigoted, full of it self, arrogant and oblivious to it's own issues. It's this nationalism we can't stand. Of course, when Europeans meet nice, bright people from America, these are usually consdered "exceptions to the rule", as withing wrote.

ETA: Spelling.

This is a fair description of the European attitude towards Americans 20 years ago. Sad that it still is today. Also sad that people missed that the issue is primarily politics and not individuals. The politics beget the attitude which did not spring out of nowhere. Also sad that this was read as anything other than an explanation of the European attitude because I don't see any bashing here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...