Jump to content
CrazyBoards.org

Do non-MI people have periods of irritability for no good reason?


Recommended Posts

Sorry this is so long, but I felt like I needed to give examples of what I am talking about.

I have been really irritable for the last 48 hours. But that is it. No other symptoms. Oh, except for one other thing. I am feeling like my husband is really invading my space a lot. A lot.

Do non-MI people have a string of days where they are just in a shit mood for no discernible reason? I know that sounds really stupid, but when I asked DH, we kind of had a "Who's on First" type conversation, which resulted in my not having any idea whether it is normal or not. In fact, it really irritated me that he couldn't grasp: "All I want to know is do normal people sometimes have a few days in a row of irritability for absolutely no reason."

Then he asked me why I was so worried about it, which upset me, because I have only told him 100 times that he needs to help me keep an eye on my mood with the Nortriptyline. I know it isn't all on him, but my p-doc says it is likely he would notice changes first. I mean, it is actually part of the diagnostic criteria for hypo that it is noticeable to others, so yeah. And he is going to suffer the brunt of any ME I have, so it is to his benefit to notice changes, too.

And then DH asked me what the symptoms of a mixed episode *were* exactly, and I got mad, because a) he has been there for every single one of my MEs, since they are a recent change in my illness and b) I asked him to help watch me a month ago, and he hasn't even bothered to look up what a mixed state is. I have researched so much on Epilepsy, so I could be as informed as possible. But I am still having to explain basic DSM-IV lists of symptoms to him.

The good thing is we both have been more love-dovey for the last few months. In spite of the headaches, quitting Depakote has improved my marriage immensely. But I feel like his hands are always on me, not even necessarily in a sexual way. I am trying not to squirm away, because I suspect it is me, not him. But at the same time I really want him to stop. I have no idea how to do that without hurting his feelings, and I am afraid it would hurt his feelings much more than his groping annoys me, if you know what I mean.

And I am not saying I don't want him to touch me ever. I just feel like he is constantly draped over me, and it is too much. And it makes me feel guilty, because I know he is just really happy that I have a libido again. Our sex life is improved and improving. I don't know what my problem is.

And all of this annoyance and irritability has been in the last two days. But no true lability of mood, no crying, my spending is entirely on stuff that we agreed on beforehand, no cleaning like a maniac, no rages, no agitation. But REALLY irritable.

What do you think? My p-doc would fit me in quickly if it is truly the beginning of a ME. But one symptom? I am not sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Vapourware

Personally, I think yes, non-MI people can have a string of days where they are irritable for no good reason. Or it could be that there are reasons - you've stated quite a few reasons why you might be irritated in your post - but you are not recognising them as reasons. Hope that makes sense. I would be annoyed too, for instance, if my partner seemed as though they weren't trying to inform themselves about aspects of my condition despite repeated requests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think non-MI people CAN have long periods of irritability, but I also think that the INTENSITY of the irritability is key. My hypomania sometimes represents itself as intense irritability (sometimes with or without cause, given the days' events)...it is the amount that it affects my daily relationships that is my tell-tale sign. Plus, for me, not wanting to be touched is a huge signal that something MI is a-brewing....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Irritability can be a mixed symptom but I think its more about intensity than anything. I get this sometimes but heavy on the depression and it leaves me really angry at everything. If I bump into something I have the urge to kick it, that sort of thing. Lately its been easier to deal with I just shrug things off which is great.

For a normal person Id imagine the irritability would have a source. something thats going on in their lives? For us its like the wind taking you somewhere and you dont have much control where youre headed.

For me only certain ADs push me mixed. prozac did it, celexa did it and zoloft when I tried to cross-titrate. But now im on two of the ADs with the worst reputation for promoting mixed, dysphoric stuff (in people who are susceptible like me) and Im doing pretty good for a change. Go figure.

topamax helped me with migraines and body pain, might be something to try if you havent already. It also helps some folks with irritability like nothing else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry this is so long, but I felt like I needed to give examples of what I am talking about.

The good thing is we both have been more love-dovey for the last few months. In spite of the headaches, quitting Depakote has improved my marriage immensely. But I feel like his hands are always on me, not even necessarily in a sexual way. I am trying not to squirm away, because I suspect it is me, not him. But at the same time I really want him to stop. I have no idea how to do that without hurting his feelings, and I am afraid it would hurt his feelings much more than his groping annoys me, if you know what I mean.

when i start feeling like i can't be touched, esp combined with being irritable, i'm headed towards a ME or mixed. pamelor made me manic as all hell, but it started with the irritability/can't be touched/angry hypomanic. after pdoc upped my lamictal it turned into crazy euphoria. not saying that's what's happening to you, but it's something to keep an eye on, especially if you feel like something's not right. i think someone on here mentioned that pamelor affects certain chemicals that can make you manic... i don't remember the post exactly... sorry.

but on your other question, yes, i think non MI people can have days where they're just crabby. the stresses of life get to everyone at times, even if it doesn't seem like anything's going on, stuff just builds up without you noticing, you know? and you have mentioned a few stressors that i can see making you irritable, but it really depends on how bad the irritability is and how bad it's affecting you, your husband, and your marriage. as annoying as it is to tell him the signs and symptoms again (believe me, i know, my hubby's the same way :rolleyes:), i think you should. lay it out for him and print/send him a cheat sheet if need be. explain to him that you're worried about the irritability because it could mean a ME is brewing, but you're not sure. ask him to let you know if it seems like it's getting worse or pissing him off. sometime husbands need it laid out for them in black and white. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, I live with non-MI people (my family) and while they seem to be irritable sometimes for maybe a few days, they snap out of it from one day to the next.

If you're not snapping out of it, or if it's interfering with your relationships more than just "grrr, oh wait I'm fine, sorry" once in a long while, then it's probably not normal.

(IANAP etc)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for answering my kind of stupid question, everyone.

Jarn, I see your point, but I feel like most of these are things that normally wouldn't bother me. Maybe it would that he is clueless about what different episodes look like, but I think the rest is unusual for me.

I am interested to hear that other people don't want to be touched when they are having an episode. I often had that feeling on Depakote, but partially because I was afraid the touching would lead to sex, which I was not enjoying on that medication. Remember, there was a thread about that the other day. So for the last 3+ years, I wouldn't have really noticed anything different about touching.

But I have never felt this way before, except while taking Depakote. And I quit that 8 months ago, and I have regained my libido. I usually enjoy that he is physically affectionate, because that is something that I missed and wanted, and never got from my my family or old boyfriends. I really feel like a shit for not liking it all of the sudden.

Also, I haven't gone to sleep yet (it is after 10:30 AM), although I am feeling like I will be able to soon. Which could mean in 15 minutes, or two hours. But sleep is something to consider, too, even though I do have bad insomnia. This is a little excessive, though.

I think I am going to wait until Friday, and then reassess to see if it is resolving one way or another. And if anything is worse, I will call my p-doc. I also think I am going to print out something about mixed states, and staple it to DH's forehead.

Irritability is a big red flag for me, but it is usually included with wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I felt like there were no other symptoms, that is why I questioned it. I think if the touching thing really is a symptom, combined with sleep disruption, there is a possibility the Pamelor is activating, so I am really going to be vigilant. But this has only been a couple of days so far. Tonight is the two week mark since I raised it to 50mg, so whatever.

I could have sworn I read that lots of people with migraines respond to 25mg. I actually wondered why my neurologist wanted me to titrate to 50mg right away, instead of giving the lower dosage a chance. But as I have said he is a very poor doctor. Maybe that is good enough reason to call my p-doc. My dad was saying given the combination of tricyclics with a terrible neurologist, it is likely that my p-doc will have a much better understanding of what to do than Dr. asshat.

I know it is my fault I still see him. I just have never had to find a neurologist on my own before. I always saw a professor of neurology at Pitt or UCLA, because my dad travelled in those circles, so he would just call the one he thought was best, and they took me on as a patient. This was also when they still practiced professional courtesy, so cost wasn't an object. I have no idea who else in my PPO has an open practice, and their biographies tell me diddly. And none of them are headache specialists.

Actually, I should just wait for my eventual UCSF appt. That is probably the best place to find out which neurologists on the peninsula are any good.

Okay, I think sleep is not quite here yet, but it is getting close enough that my typing is getting realy bad.

So, Good Morning, good morning, it's fun to stay up late. Good morning, good morning to you (and you and you and you).

ETA: And my posts sure have been garrulous lately, hmmmmm....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also think I am going to print out something about mixed states, and staple it to DH's forehead.

hah! love the imagery! :lol:

Irritability is a big red flag for me, but it is usually included with wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I felt like there were no other symptoms, that is why I questioned it. I think if the touching thing really is a symptom, combined with sleep disruption, there is a possibility the Pamelor is activating, so I am really going to be vigilant. But this has only been a couple of days so far. Tonight is the two week mark since I raised it to 50mg, so whatever.

by two weeks on 25mg/day of pamelor (and 150mg of lamictal) i was very irritable. by 6 weeks on 25mg pamelor and 200mg of lamictal i was off my rocker manic. so it could be the beginning of something even though it's only been two weeks.

then again i'm super sensitive to meds...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am interested to hear that other people don't want to be touched when they are having an episode. I often had that feeling on Depakote, but partially because I was afraid the touching would lead to sex, which I was not enjoying on that medication. Remember, there was a thread about that the other day. So for the last 3+ years, I wouldn't have really noticed anything different about touching.

this is something that's been bothering me for months, too, and i've been puzzled by it. i've been "up" and productive and social but irritable and agitated... and i haven't been able to stand being touched the entire time. having that go on this long is NOT normal for me. i really think it's part of the mood state i'm in. i don't like other people touching me, either, even people i would normally hug. i think it is a real indicator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Irritable for no reason - sure - I know a guy who will say "I'm a snapping turtle this morning" when he's irritable for no reason.

As for touching, I've noticed that when people are sick (cold, whatever), there are two responses - "cuddle me" or "don't touch me!". Depends on what makes you feel better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know anything about what sane people do. Quite possibly because I either elect to surround myself largely with the insane, or I just kind of assume everyone I know is as angst ridden under the surface as I am. The sane are mysteries, wrapped in enigmas, floating on clouds of ambiguity, to me.

I do know that the touching thing has been a very big deal for me in some hypo/mxed episodes. For me though, it's not exactly about the touching per se. It's more an extension of the irritibility that is outraged by anyone daring to breathe audibly in my presence. It's the insistence that my space is MINE, and extends just as far as I say it does. It's about being so involved with myself, my own thoughts, that any reminder of other people's existence on the planet feels like a violent intrusion. If I don't want to hear you breathe, I sure as hell don't want your hands on me. Is it any wonder I'm still single?

I can see how some of the things your husband's been doing could be annoying. But there's a very specific sort of intrusive irritation I really only experience during certain kinds of episodes, and that's kind of what I'm getting from your posts.

As far as the touching goes, I sometimes find that, if I'm the one initiating it, it's not anything like as irritating. So that's something that might help.

And as far as calling your pdoc, I would always rather err on the side of caution there. But, I think my upswings might escalate more quickly than some people's do, so waiting a day or two might be a bigger deal for me than it would be for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do know that the touching thing has been a very big deal for me in some hypo/mxed episodes. For me though, it's not exactly about the touching per se. It's more an extension of the irritibility that is outraged by anyone daring to breathe audibly in my presence. It's the insistence that my space is MINE, and extends just as far as I say it does. It's about being so involved with myself, my own thoughts, that any reminder of other people's existence on the planet feels like a violent intrusion. If I don't want to hear you breathe, I sure as hell don't want your hands on me.

yes - THIS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually sucked it up, and talked to my husband about it, and he really wasn't hurt by it. I forget how understanding he is about symptoms, especially when I am worrying about my mood. But we kind of established boundaries. I don't mind if his knee is against mine, or sitting close enough that we brush each other. It is when he puts his arms around me (god, that sounds awful) that I start to get uncomfortable. So SashaSue, I think you nailed it on that one.

In fact he told me to try to explain it to him, because he thought it would help me puzzle out what was happening, and he could be a sounding board. He didn't seem too thrilled to hear what I had to say (in terms of getting sicker, not about the touching), and we tried a couple of the more cuddly types of contact experimentally, which I think was good of him, because he knew I really might hate it, and that can't be good for his self esteem, no matter how understanding he is. and I realized my instinct was to squirm and try to get away, like I felt trapped and out of control. He thought that sounded a little crazy (again, as an observer, not as a criticism), and he has agreed he will really keep an eye on me.

But last night during talking with him, I got myself into a tizzy, and started feeling like talking about it was making it worse. I had a knot in my stomach, and went to bed early. I am not 100% sure if I didn't just wind myself up, or that the reason I got so wound up was a symptom. I am so scared of ME, that I could easily see myself just getting freaked independent of a mood change.

But I know while I can think of a rationale for each thing, the fact that it is a laundry list is telling. Again, I am not in crisis, and I think waiting until tomorrow makes sense, because now that DH FINALLY knows what he is looking for, I feel pretty confident that he will speak up. He said he realized that he would suffer from my ME, so it was important for both of us.

So my instinct is that I will be calling my p-doc tomorrow, but if I have a good day today, I can wait. I have never been hospitalized, but if it were to suddenly get that bad, I would be willing to self-admit. So I think I am covered, more or less. Thanks everyone. Really. 5 years might sound like a long time, but since the first 20 years of my illness was mostly depression with hypomania, the MEs were a huge shock: Something I had never heard of before, which was clearly more dangerous than when I was inert with depression. And something I am still learning about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now THAT is intense, its like the next step up from what Ive had.

If you ever find something that gets rid of that awful feeling I really want to hear about it. Topamax was the closest I got.

I do know that the touching thing has been a very big deal for me in some hypo/mxed episodes. For me though, it's not exactly about the touching per se. It's more an extension of the irritibility that is outraged by anyone daring to breathe audibly in my presence. It's the insistence that my space is MINE, and extends just as far as I say it does. It's about being so involved with myself, my own thoughts, that any reminder of other people's existence on the planet feels like a violent intrusion. If I don't want to hear you breathe, I sure as hell don't want your hands on me. Is it any wonder I'm still single?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I am dissociating, which I recognize from when I had PTSD. It isn't constant, it is happening for a few minutes (like 5-10) and then going away, but there is not standard interval between them, if that makes sense.

I still think that the dissociation could be my freaking myself out because I am afraid. Since I finished treatment for PTSD, I only have had two or three episodes over 12 years, and they were just random, I don't even think they were associated with any particular event. This is worse than those times, I am feeling anxious about it. So I will definitely call my pdoc tomorrow, because even if I am making myself do it, it is still not good.

I have taken both of my daily Xanax and my PRN, but I am still freaked out. Do you think it would be okay to take another mg just this once, since I am calling my pdoc tomorrow? I have never done it before, so if you think it is a stupid idea, I won't do it, but I am kind of worked up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually used cannabis tonight, because I have a headache. It psycho-active effects for me are really limited to pain relief and intoxication. I actually don't even get intoxicated from my "prophylactic" dose anymore, but I have to use more of it when there is actual pain. It does make some people anxious, but therefore, as you would expect, it also works for anxiety for some people. One of my best friends is clearly, and admittedly, self-medicating for anxiety (he lives in a non-MC state), but he holds a full time job, is raising a kid with his ex, and has published several novels. But I have seen people become agitated on it, too.

So I did take the extra Xanax, and it has calmed me down a lot. So tomorrow, out goes the call to my p-doc's never ending answering machine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, I am posting here because I feel like it is only fair to let people who have been commenting know what is going on, but if a moderator thinks its time for me to move this conversation to my blog, that is okay too.

My p-doc is out of town until the 14th. The on call p-doc is being very conservative, which I understand. I am supposed to take my prn on a schedule (so 1mg, 3 times a day, instead of 2 mg, 1 prn). He said I could use another mg. PRN, but to try not to. I have a big stockpile, because I don't use it up each month, so running out isn't a problem. I have never been on an AAP, and it wasn't suggested, but if it had been, I think I would have chosen the more benzos option anyway, rather than try a new class of meds while my p-doc is out of town, since I am not having a bad crisis.

If it gets worse, I'll call back. If it gets crazy bad, I'll go to Stanford ER, but I have never been hospitalized (I should have been once, but wasn't, long story, so whatever). So I really think that is unlikely.

When I look at my laundry list, it looks like most of it (other than the touching thing) are associated with my being anxious. So I am clearly more anxious than usual, even if I'm conjuring up some of these symptoms because I in a dither. So it is worth being in touch with his office, now they know I am alive at least. I don't think I am making things up, my question is more what symptom belongs to what ailment, but .

And I always feel better after sleep, whether it is 4 hours or 12, so even though my sleep is very disrupted, I am getting "breaks" from the more intense anxiety.

Just checking: if you have already experienced it in the past, dissociation can reappear as a defense mechanism against general stress and anxiety, right? More scary than serious?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...