NOT getting sedated/sleepy on clonazepam

[LilacOutsideMyWindow]

Things have been good since I started clonazepam. I've applied to college and registered for fall classes. I've gone to informational meetings and spoken with strangers. I'm letting my dad deal with his own alcohol problems instead of focusing on them and making them my problem.

I've also been waking nice and early every morning. The first week it was prescribed to me, I was attending a conference every morning, so was up around 5:30a - much earlier than my usual 7:30. Since the conference ended, I'm still waking earlier than normal, although just around 6:30ish.

I take .25mg in the morning, another .25mg in the afternoon if I feel I need it (maybe 2-3 days this past week) and then .5mg at night.

I don't feel that I need it for sleep, not at all.

I've read that it can have anti-manic properties, and I've been a tad worried that all my activity (I've even gone on walks!) have been signs of hypo/mania, and all meds together are just keeping it at bay (which of course is the goal - go meds).

I assume, though, that a paradoxical reaction would mean an INCREASE in anxiety, right? Since my anxiety is under control, I should just be happy I don't get sedation - right?

I almost feel that this is too good to be true - that maybe all my rage issues were more tied to anxiety and poor coping with anxiety than I ever realized, and now that the anxiety is under control, I feel so much better.

The only other change I've made is that I've quit all alcohol myself. Not that I was consuming much - but I was having the occasional beer or wine with dinner, and since starting clonazepam I haven't had any. I guess that could be related to sleep, but I was drinking, imo, too infrequently for it to have that much of an effect. My 7:30 waking time has been going on for a long time.

Ah, I feel like I've rambled too much and my real question is getting lost, sorry!

Real question - how normal is it to NOT be sedated, to not feel sleepy at all, when first starting and being on a benzo, clonazepam specifically?

[tryp]

I never felt particularly sleepy on clonazepam. It's one of the longer acting ones, so it might pack less of a punch in that respect.

Anyway, sleepiness on benzos is more of a side effect than a therapeutic effect. i wouldn't worry too much if it doesn't make you sleepy, as long as it's not making you agitated/anxious - that's when you know you're paradoxical on it. I don't know enough to comment on whether you're swinging up, so I'll leave that to others, but not being sleepy on benzos, in and of itself, isn't a huge deal IMO

[LilacOutsideMyWindow]

but not being sleepy on benzos, in and of itself, isn't a huge deal IMO

Thanks, that's really what I was concerned out

[Cade]

Everyone's side effects are different and sedation is kind of a side effect. I don't think it's a real problem if you're not tired. Xanax in my low-ish dose doesn't make me sleepy unless I'm already tired, and then it will intensify the fatigue somewhat. If I take it mid-day I'll feel fine.

[jt07]

It seems to be the opinion of many, especially those in the psychiatric profession, that the opposite of anxiety is sleepiness. No, that's not true. The opposite of anxiety is a feeling of being calm and in control. This is not sleepiness. I have been sleepy and have been quite anxious. In fact, one method I use to deal with anxiety is to sleep. It does not mean that I'm not anxious. I've found that the carbamazepine helps to calm down my mind quite a bit but not perfectly.

[Maddy]

It never made me sleepy. Granted, it didn't work for me either. But it didn't make me sleepy.

[Random Rabbit]

Real question - how normal is it to NOT be sedated, to not feel sleepy at all, when first starting and being on a benzo, clonazepam specifically?

I do not find clonazepam hypnotic (sleep inducing). Clonazepam is quite sedating (calming). Clonazepam is also a potent anxiolytic (reduces the intensity of the stimulus response). Clonazepam is a 3rd rate muscle relaxer. Clonazepam is a good anti-seizure medication.

The above are the 5 properties that mark the benzodiazepines.

Clonazepam with its slow onset (4 hours to peak serum levels) is not intended for inducing sleep. Unless clonazepam is taken sublingually its onset is too slow for panic and it is used more as a prophylactic/preventative measure.

Hence, it is normal to feel sedated (calmer mood) when taking clonazepam but it is not normal to feel sleepy (hypnosis).

[LilacOutsideMyWindow]

Random Rabbit - you got me thinking about words. I was thinking of sedation as being "too calm", the sort that I've had with alcohol or good weed. What I think I'm experiencing instead, is a more "normal" sedate temperament. Serene. Calm. Not overly anxious.

The sedation I was afraid of leaves me dis-inhibited and unable to function well - not a good combination.

The serenity I'm experiencing is instead leaving me capable, functional, and if any inhibitions have been removed, it's been to my benefit as they were shackling me before.

How funny that I was expecting the former, got the latter, and have been concerned that that was a problem.

FWIW, my anxiety is (was?) at a constant low level, with severe peaks, then stress came along and pushed me over to a constant mid/high level and I'm not sure if there were peaks or not because it was just bad all the time. If that makes any sense. Since starting clonazepam, I still shook and felt like I was tripping over my words talking to strangers, for instance, but I never felt the need to run far and fast in order to relearn how to breath.

jt - I trialed oxcarbazapine, and I couldn't handle how it totally killed my sex drive. Abilify, on the other hand, has really kept a lid on my thoughts - they no longer boil over.

I'm really interested in my own reaction to this medication. I was afraid that I'd get a high, and that I'd crave that feeling and go seeking more of this med...but instead, I have to remind myself to take it (pdoc wants me taking it at regular intervals for now). When I've missed it, the only thing I've noticed is the anxiety returns (of course) and I get some weird whacked out dreams (but I still sleep well).

[Random Rabbit]

Random Rabbit - you got me thinking about words. I was thinking of sedation as being "too calm", the sort that I've had with alcohol or good weed. What I think I'm experiencing instead, is a more "normal" sedate temperament. Serene. Calm. Not overly anxious.

I tend to be a very precise speaker/writer. I was told that with diazepam I would develop little tolerance to the anxiolytic effect while I would rapidly develop tolerance to the sedative and hypnotic effects. After trials of a few anxiolytics I finally learned what the words meant. Hypnosis is making one sleepy. Sedation changes how you feel. Anxiolysis affects the intensity of the stimuli.

Sedation makes one go from freaking out to calm. Without tolerance, diazepam will sedate/calm one down in about 15 minutes (rapid onset).

Anxiolysis dampens/softens our response to external and internal events. When diazepam stopped sedating me, it stopped calming me down. But what I found was that I could instead calm myself down faster than I could without the medication. What would scare me and make me upset for 4 hours, I can now resolve in 15 minutes.

The sedation I was afraid of leaves me dis-inhibited and unable to function well - not a good combination.

The serenity I'm experiencing is instead leaving me capable, functional, and if any inhibitions have been removed, it's been to my benefit as they were shackling me before.

How funny that I was expecting the former, got the latter, and have been concerned that that was a problem.

If you take too much, then you get the former, dis-inhibited and irresponsible (and perhaps blacked out).

Benzos when taken at proper dosages for anxiety are not intoxicating. The only indication of intoxication at proper doses might be a slight euphoria which is caused by the cessation of anxiety and not by the drug itself. Taking more will make you intoxicated like alcohol does in a different fashion as both affect GABA. The problem is many benzos create poor insight into their effects. i.e., you may not notice you are talking and thinking slowly even though others will take clear note of it.

Another factor is many people take benzodiazepines for anxiety daily for years without needing dosage increases. But if you abuse them, then you will rapidly increase your tolerance and ruin what can be a wonderfully helpful medication.

FWIW, my anxiety is (was?) at a constant low level, with severe peaks, then stress came along and pushed me over to a constant mid/high level and I'm not sure if there were peaks or not because it was just bad all the time. If that makes any sense. Since starting clonazepam, I still shook and felt like I was tripping over my words talking to strangers, for instance, but I never felt the need to run far and fast in order to relearn how to breath.

<snip>

I'm really interested in my own reaction to this medication. I was afraid that I'd get a high, and that I'd crave that feeling and go seeking more of this med...but instead, I have to remind myself to take it (pdoc wants me taking it at regular intervals for now). When I've missed it, the only thing I've noticed is the anxiety returns (of course) and I get some weird whacked out dreams (but I still sleep well).

Clonazepam is best taken regularly and it takes about 5 days of regular dosing to load to its therapeutic level. I also get the hypersalivation side effect from it and that left me drooling on myself and not caring. My saliva glands actually grew larger due to clonazepam and retain that capacity even though I no longer take it.

Clonazepam is scary potent. Lorazepam would really scare me if it was longer acting. Diazepam is moderately long acting with a long acting metabolite and takes a couple weeks to load to the therapeutic level for a given dosage. Diazepam is weaker than the others leaving the user with more insight into its effects. But diazepam's active metabolite, nor-diazepam, leaves one with no insight into its effects.

[sleeper]

this is where people go wrong on benzos - the anti anxiety property is most likely still working but the sedative property is puttering out which is typical...it's the first property to go on the road to tolerance.... people think the pill is not working anymore since they don't get sleepy then they up the dose and dig their hole... these pills are not sleeping pills in the first place.

[lysergia]

Clonazepam is scary potent. Lorazepam would really scare me if it was longer acting. Diazepam is moderately long acting with a long acting metabolite and takes a couple weeks to load to the therapeutic level for a given dosage. Diazepam is weaker than the others leaving the user with more insight into its effects. But diazepam's active metabolite, nor-diazepam, leaves one with no insight into its effects.

"scary potent" is not the most helpful description of clonazepam (or any other drug imo). i have no issues with comparing benzo properties, as people need different things (something every day, something PRN, something quick, something long-lasting, etc). i'm on clonazepam, have used it off and on as i needed it (sometimes for months at a time), and nothing about clonazepam's potency is "scary" unless i were foolish enough to take way more than i needed or try to stop taking them far too quickly. yeah, getting off clonazepam when you've been taking a high dose for a long time is no picnic - that's what slow tapers are for.

i'd like to know where the idea that benzos are different in the arena of "insight" comes from, if you have a source you can share? or even what you mean by "insight" in this case.

i struggle with taking my clonazepam as directed because of my fear of addiction and withdrawal. i'm not the only one, i'm sure. these kinds of posts would fuel my irrational fear, if i didn't have the insight to know that i'm under the care of a very responsible doctor who goes out of his way to assure me that clonazepam is NOT scary when properly prescribed/consumed.

(edit for spelling)

[AnneMarie]

Real question - how normal is it to NOT be sedated, to not feel sleepy at all, when first starting and being on a benzo, clonazepam specifically?

I do not find clonazepam hypnotic (sleep inducing). Clonazepam is quite sedating (calming). Clonazepam is also a potent anxiolytic (reduces the intensity of the stimulus response). Clonazepam is a 3rd rate muscle relaxer. Clonazepam is a good anti-seizure medication.

The above are the 5 properties that mark the benzodiazepines.

Clonazepam with its slow onset (4 hours to peak serum levels) is not intended for inducing sleep. Unless clonazepam is taken sublingually its onset is too slow for panic and it is used more as a prophylactic/preventative measure.

Hence, it is normal to feel sedated (calmer mood) when taking clonazepam but it is not normal to feel sleepy (hypnosis).

Point of clarification. Although clonazepam is classed as an anticonvulsant, it is not considered a particularly good anti-seizure med.

Epilepsy.com

Because clonazepam has a high degree of tolerance it will work well for brief periods of time, but its effectiveness may decrease over time. In addition, since the dosage must be increased to maintain the same degree of seizure control the side effects associated with clonazepam may increase too.

WebMD

In general, benzodiazepines are not usually the first choice for long-term treatment of epilepsy. Although clonazepam or clorazepate may be quite helpful for a few people, most people do not respond very well to them over the long term.

I realize that sedation and calm are synonyms in the dictionary, but I think the more common interpretation of sedation is sleepy, dopey, drugged, tranquilled. Calm is usually thought more of as serene, still, at peace. My .02 fwiw.

[Random Rabbit]

Clonazepam is scary potent. Lorazepam would really scare me if it was longer acting. Diazepam is moderately long acting with a long acting metabolite and takes a couple weeks to load to the therapeutic level for a given dosage. Diazepam is weaker than the others leaving the user with more insight into its effects. But diazepam's active metabolite, nor-diazepam, leaves one with no insight into its effects.

"scary potent" is not the most helpful description of clonazepam (or any other drug imo). i have no issues with comparing benzo properties, as people need different things (something every day, something PRN, something quick, something long-lasting, etc). i'm on clonazepam, have used it off and on as i needed it (sometimes for months at a time), and nothing about clonazepam's potency is "scary" unless i were foolish enough to take way more than i needed or try to stop taking them far too quickly. yeah, getting off clonazepam when you've been taking a high dose for a long time is no picnic - that's what slow tapers are for.

i'd like to know where the idea that benzos are different in the arena of "insight" comes from, if you have a source you can share? or even what you mean by "insight" in this case.

i struggle with taking my clonazepam as directed because of my fear of addiction and withdrawal. i'm not the only one, i'm sure. these kinds of posts would fuel my irrational fear, if i didn't have the insight to know that i'm under the care of a very responsible doctor who goes out of his way to assure me that clonazepam is NOT scary when properly prescribed/consumed.

(edit for spelling)

I call clonazepam scary potent due to 2 factors of lack of insight.

1. Accidentally taking too many simply slows your thoughts and actions down like a slow motion replay while not getting a greater sense of the medication acting on one's mind. You can accidentally double dose and not realize it. This can lead to a DUI and resultant criminal complications.
2. I have absolutely no insight into the effects of alcohol when taking clonazepam. You could be very drunk and think you were just fine to drive as you do not feel drunk or even buzzed. This lack of insight totally freaked me out, so I totally stopped drinking alcohol while taking clonazepam. I drink only in moderation* as I do not like being drunk and clonazepam turned me into a teetotaler. With some medications, one drink is one drink too many to drive.

If clonazepam is taken as prescribed and other CNS depressants that affect GABA are avoided, then there should be no issues.

The scariest drug I ever took was lamotrigine. YMMV

As far as addiction potential, benzos are not something to worry about when taken for anxiety so long as you do not continue to raise your dosage to chase the buzz/sedative effect. I would not worry about addiction to benzos when taken as prescribed. I would worry about driving when taking them and not be being tolerant to the sedative and hypnotic effects.

As to my source about the level of insight, I say all this from personal experience and close observation of how drugs affect me mixed with external references to my state from others. (added in edit)

* 1 or 2 drinks per occasion and less than 8 drinks per month total.

[Random Rabbit]

Point of clarification. Although clonazepam is classed as an anticonvulsant, it is not considered a particularly good anti-seizure med.

Epilepsy.com

Because clonazepam has a high degree of tolerance it will work well for brief periods of time, but its effectiveness may decrease over time. In addition, since the dosage must be increased to maintain the same degree of seizure control the side effects associated with clonazepam may increase too.

WebMD

In general, benzodiazepines are not usually the first choice for long-term treatment of epilepsy. Although clonazepam or clorazepate may be quite helpful for a few people, most people do not respond very well to them over the long term.

I realize that sedation and calm are synonyms in the dictionary, but I think the more common interpretation of sedation is sleepy, dopey, drugged, tranquilled. Calm is usually thought more of as serene, still, at peace. My .02 fwiw.

I agree that benzos are not a good maintenance choice as anticonvulsants, but they are effective short term anticonvulsants.

The reason I differentiate the terms sedative (changing how one feels), hypnotic (making one sleepy), and anxiolytic (changing what one senses) is twofold:

1. Doctors and the FDA could care less what a thesaurus says, or what common usage implies. Without a precise and accurate understanding of what the words in a PI sheet mean, one can get very confused.
2. Clearly defining the sedative effect versus the anxiolytic effect helps one see whether or not a med is working and this can help avoid the dose escalation that leads to addiction.

This is very similar to the difference between dependence and addiction. Without knowing what the terms mean and the associated sensations one can easily get addicted to benzos by chasing the sedative effect while unaware of the anxiolytic effect that the drug was prescribed for.

[klingon001]

...

[lysergia]

I call clonazepam scary potent due to 2 factors of lack of insight.

1. Accidentally taking too many simply slows your thoughts and actions down like a slow motion replay while not getting a greater sense of the medication acting on one's mind. You can accidentally double dose and not realize it. This can lead to a DUI and resultant criminal complications.
2. I have absolutely no insight into the effects of alcohol when taking clonazepam. You could be very drunk and think you were just fine to drive as you do not feel drunk or even buzzed. This lack of insight totally freaked me out, so I totally stopped drinking alcohol while taking clonazepam. I drink only in moderation* as I do not like being drunk and clonazepam turned me into a teetotaler. With some medications, one drink is one drink too many to drive.

If clonazepam is taken as prescribed and other CNS depressants that affect GABA are avoided, then there should be no issues.

if i double a dose of clonazepam by accident, i most certainly DO notice. i also most certainly do feel insight into the effects of alcohol and ANY medication i'm taking. that's why i currently don't drink. is it honestly that common to not notice you're too drunk to drive? i'd be quicker to blame that on lack of insight about the amount of alcohol consumed - or even one's mood state to begin with (i'm thinking about being closer to the manic end, where you might think you can drink a gallon of wine and drive).

The scariest drug I ever took was lamotrigine. YMMV

one of the best drugs i've ever taken is lamotrigine. the scariest one i've ever taken was effexor. so yes, YMMV.

As far as addiction potential, benzos are not something to worry about when taken for anxiety so long as you do not continue to raise your dosage to chase the buzz/sedative effect. I would not worry about addiction to benzos when taken as prescribed. I would worry about driving when taking them and not be being tolerant to the sedative and hypnotic effects.

i agree if you're chasing a buzz from anything, from benzos to stimulants, you're not helping yourself at all in the long run. i would hope that most people have good judgment about whether they're too impaired in any way to drive, but then again i don't drive so i can't say personally.

As to my source about the level of insight, I say all this from personal experience and close observation of how drugs affect me mixed with external references to my state from others. (added in edit)

* 1 or 2 drinks per occasion and less than 8 drinks per month total.

thanks. your initial post seemed to indicate this was researched rather than anecdotal, and it sort of surprised me. not that i think anecdotal information isn't valuable. thankfully, this place is full of it, and it helps so long as the YMMV is applied.

[AnneMarie]

Point of clarification. Although clonazepam is classed as an anticonvulsant, it is not considered a particularly good anti-seizure med.

Epilepsy.com

Because clonazepam has a high degree of tolerance it will work well for brief periods of time, but its effectiveness may decrease over time. In addition, since the dosage must be increased to maintain the same degree of seizure control the side effects associated with clonazepam may increase too.

WebMD

In general, benzodiazepines are not usually the first choice for long-term treatment of epilepsy. Although clonazepam or clorazepate may be quite helpful for a few people, most people do not respond very well to them over the long term.

I realize that sedation and calm are synonyms in the dictionary, but I think the more common interpretation of sedation is sleepy, dopey, drugged, tranquilled. Calm is usually thought more of as serene, still, at peace. My .02 fwiw.

I agree that benzos are not a good maintenance choice as anticonvulsants, but they are effective short term anticonvulsants.

The reason I differentiate the terms sedative (changing how one feels), hypnotic (making one sleepy), and anxiolytic (changing what one senses) is twofold:

1. Doctors and the FDA could care less what a thesaurus says, or what common usage implies. Without a precise and accurate understanding of what the words in a PI sheet mean, one can get very confused.
2. Clearly defining the sedative effect versus the anxiolytic effect helps one see whether or not a med is working and this can help avoid the dose escalation that leads to addiction.

This is very similar to the difference between dependence and addiction. Without knowing what the terms mean and the associated sensations one can easily get addicted to benzos by chasing the sedative effect while unaware of the anxiolytic effect that the drug was prescribed for.

I was referring to your use of sedation and calm, not so much to the use of sedative, hypnotic and anxiolytic.

I believe that Ativan is the immediate go to med for seizure, not Klonopin, but I'm not an expert. Also, although I did not address it earlier, referring to Klonopin as "scary" is a bit of an overstatement, IMO. It is effective, safe medicine. The sedation wears off for many. Driving for many if not most is safe once this happens. Drinking on any one of many meds is not safe. That said, a drink on Klonopin is fine for many. So, overstatement.

In general, when you are speaking from your own experience, say so. You initially presented your info as fact when it has opinion and conjecture mixed in. That's not cool. Much better to be clear up front about your sources for a number of reasons, including that someone could take your words to heart in a way that causes harm, and because we here at Crazyboards sort of insist on it.

[crtclms]

Ativan is what my husband uses PRN when he has seizure aura. It doesn't work all the time, but it does help. But he has to take 2mg at once, and since he doesn't take it often, it knocks him out.

I have managed to start dropping ativan in the pocket between his teeth and cheek even while he has a seizure. Dropping it into his cheek pocket avoids putting my fingers in the way of his teeth, and it is almost the same as taking it sub-lingualy. FYI, his neurosurgeon said it wasn't a large enough pill to worry about aspiration, for those of you with partners with epilepsy. He usually starts calming down about 5 minutes after I drop in the pill.

[That Girl]

Benzos don't make me sleepy either - but they do shut my brain up / quiet my mind, which is generally why I can't sleep. So, while not a sleeping pill, they can assist me in that way - as prescribed of course...

[AnxietyGirl74]

I don't get sleep on .5 mgs of Clonazepam, only on 1 mg. However, it relaxes me at both those doses. I use the .5 mgs to help me if I start having bad anxiety at work at the 1 mg at bedtime to help prevent panic attacks, which I tend to get in my sleep if I don't take it. As long as it works to keep you from being anxious, it is doing its job.