crtclms Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 DH and I went away for a couple of days, and stayed at a B&B that did not have tv, or wireless, or phones, and only got local papers. We came back this afternoon to The Nightmare on Pennsylvania Ave. I am very afraid the Republicans are going to allow a default. I don't think enough people realize how it is going to affect everyone's lives but the wealthiest. I am seriously on the edge of panic. I took my prn Xanax, and practiced breathing exercises. I am scared for our country. I feel like I myself am being held hostage, which is pure anxiety talking. I am not even trying to pretend I am not partisan, but I sincerely believe that if the US defaults, loses its stellar credit rating, etc., that it is the middle class and *especially* the poor that are going to be suffering the brunt of the economic disaster. There will be consequences, but not for the CEOs of Exxon or Walmart. And again, I am not pretending I am not partisan. Although I should say, I am way, way left of Obama. I knew he was a centrist when I voted for him, people who didn't realize that didn't look at his actual record. I know that the budget is created by congress, but come on Obama, really? This is like a slow motion ideological assassination: Obama's political influence has been terminated as effectively as if a gun had been used. Believe me, I prefer economic assassination to the real thing, but I am appalled, and yes, ashamed of what is going on. And you can see I blame one side more than the other, but I know the Democrats are just limp and pathetic. ETA: I know this is about politics, but politics are making me super, super anxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Festerion Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wish I could say something to provide some comfort. Got another bit of news this morning that no news outlet seems to be reporting yet...I would otherwise post it because it is very significant, but I don't want to make you or any others worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Crtcims - This, too, shall pass. If the nation could survive the tumult and chaos and blood of the Civil War, it can survive this. Even if the worst happens, and we drop back into recession and the stock market tanks, things will improve in time. The only constant in life is change. Plus, I will be shocked - shocked - if the Republicans' Corporate Masters allow them to destroy the nation's credit. Cerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laume Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 How do the republicans expect to get out of this without raising taxes? Canada, although rocked by the financial melt down south of the border, was spared a lot of your pain down there. Why? Because we all pay more taxes. Which is okay by me and many others if it means we can keep our standard of life. We also have very tight reins on our banking industry that Bush et al and Clinton thought were too heavy handed and got the ball rolling to financial mess. Yes, our super-rich and corporations should pay more in taxes, but cutting social programs like medicare and social security is going to do irreparable harm to the citizens of the States - especially the most vulnerable. In other words, I don't blame you for being anxious in the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm sorry critcms that you are feeling so anxious. I understand. I am of the opinion that the low to middle classes are slowly and surely shifting into worse and worse straits, which is why I refuse to listen to the news. I mean, the wealth distribution in this country is exactly the same as it was before the great depression, which scares me a bit. That said, we will all survive. We will. It happens. Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtclms Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Cerebus, our credit has already been damaged: Moodys has downgraded our credit score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 crtclms: It will probably be resolved at the last minute. Besides, it's one of those things we can't control, right? I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. And I believe I was in range of the Soviet missiles, if fired. This too will pass, regardless of what the children in DC do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yeah, there will be a last-minute deal. That's how politics is played. Just a big game of chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
december_brigette Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I've been so tied up about this I think Im losing my perception of reality. I cannot watch or hear the news anymore. If this shit is not straightened out by aug 3 there will be no ssi or ssdi checks. WHAT THE FUCK AM I TO DO????? There is also a whole hell of paranoia and that i save for my blog. Thank you John Boehner for inciting a crazier crazy me, db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 db, I'm sure you're too young to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. I might be crazy (you think?) in comparing this impasse to that crisis, but in a way the two are similar. Both sides have too much to lose by letting this go over the brink. There will be no winners, and both sides know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Crtcims - This, too, shall pass. If the nation could survive the tumult and chaos and blood of the Civil War, it can survive this. Even if the worst happens, and we drop back into recession and the stock market tanks, things will improve in time. The only constant in life is change. Plus, I will be shocked - shocked - if the Republicans' Corporate Masters allow them to destroy the nation's credit. Cerberus It's the newly elected Tea Party lunitics who are running the show. They don't answer to the traditional Republican business base. They are populists and are as anti Wall Street as they are anti-government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Yeah, there will be a last-minute deal. That's how politics is played. Just a big game of chicken. Procedurally, it's already too late. Even if they reached a deal right now there wouldn't be time to get a bill through and signed by the president in time. Remember it's go to go through all the layers of posturing in both houses and then conference committee before the president can sign it. Since the house and senate are proposing substantially different bills, the time in conference committee could be lengthy. I fear it's already too late and default is a near certainty. The FAA has already shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SashaSue Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 DH and I went away for a couple of days, and stayed at a B&B that did not have tv, or wireless, or phones, and only got local papers. We came back this afternoon to The Nightmare on Pennsylvania Ave. I am very afraid the Republicans are going to allow a default. I don't think enough people realize how it is going to affect everyone's lives but the wealthiest. I am seriously on the edge of panic. I took my prn Xanax, and practiced breathing exercises. I am scared for our country. I feel like I myself am being held hostage, which is pure anxiety talking. I am not even trying to pretend I am not partisan, but I sincerely believe that if the US defaults, loses its stellar credit rating, etc., that it is the middle class and *especially* the poor that are going to be suffering the brunt of the economic disaster. There will be consequences, but not for the CEOs of Exxon or Walmart. And again, I am not pretending I am not partisan. Although I should say, I am way, way left of Obama. I knew he was a centrist when I voted for him, people who didn't realize that didn't look at his actual record. I know that the budget is created by congress, but come on Obama, really? This is like a slow motion ideological assassination: Obama's political influence has been terminated as effectively as if a gun had been used. Believe me, I prefer economic assassination to the real thing, but I am appalled, and yes, ashamed of what is going on. And you can see I blame one side more than the other, but I know the Democrats are just limp and pathetic. ETA: I know this is about politics, but politics are making me super, super anxious. I'm so with you on this. I really can't even think about this too much, or my head starts to implode. The thing that makes this, to me at least, so much scarier than any politics as usual game of chicken, is the huge influence of the teabagger freshman members of the house. They are completely ideologically driven, and a big part of their ideology is to shrink the federal government, until it's small enough to drown it in a bathtub. They don't care about reelection, they just care about their own agenda. Since they're not concerned with reelection, there's nothing preventing them from doing whatever batshit thing they're doing, and no incentive for them to come to compromises. P.S. I'm moving this to the current events board, let me know if you mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Not understanding billions and trillions, I tend to scale this down, and see a family squabbling over a credit card bill. And from my perspective (subject to other perspectives throwing more light) is that it has to be better to pay the interest on the bill (which is all the raising of the credit limit is) but the bigger issue by far is addressing the credit card lifestyle which has let such a bill accumulate. That is going to mean that some things the family were accustomed to doing or enjoying aren't going to be affordable, at least not so often. Cue more rows. Me, I'm far from a socialist. (except in the USA, I suspect) firmly believing in the importance of a mixed economy. But I'd want to see the rich (individuals and businesses) paying at least the same proportion of their income in tax as the less well-off do. Currently (in the UK as well as the USA) there are too many ways for their profits and incomes somehow to not be as taxable as those of ordinary people. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's the newly elected Tea Party lunitics who are running the show. They don't answer to the traditional Republican business base. They are populists and are as anti Wall Street as they are anti-government. The United States government is under the control of populists? Bwahahahaha! Oh, me... *wipes tear* VE, when did you hand in your Cynics & Skeptics card? Money = Power, and populists don't have money, or they wouldn't, by and large, be populists. And Speaker Boehner isn't a populist, he's just a spineless loon. (Thanks a heap, Ohio.) I'm still looking for some sort of last-minute procedural fix. The FAA has already shut down. The FAA shutdown has nothing to do with the debt ceiling crisis. Congress simply didn't get around to passing a renewal authorization before the current authorization expired. I would gently suggest that all this alarmist speculation may not be doing much to alleviate the strain expressed by the OP... Perhaps a little distraction would be useful - for instance: Why don't eggs taste like chicken? Cerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurochs Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Note to Republicans: Job creators won't create new jobs if they don't get their bond payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It's the newly elected Tea Party lunitics who are running the show. They don't answer to the traditional Republican business base. They are populists and are as anti Wall Street as they are anti-government. The United States government is under the control of populists? Bwahahahaha! Oh, me... *wipes tear* VE, when did you hand in your Cynics & Skeptics card? Money = Power, and populists don't have money, or they wouldn't, by and large, be populists. And Speaker Boehner isn't a populist, he's just a spineless loon. (Thanks a heap, Ohio.) I'm still looking for some sort of last-minute procedural fix. The FAA has already shut down. The FAA shutdown has nothing to do with the debt ceiling crisis. Congress simply didn't get around to passing a renewal authorization before the current authorization expired. I would gently suggest that all this alarmist speculation may not be doing much to alleviate the strain expressed by the OP... Perhaps a little distraction would be useful - for instance: Why don't eggs taste like chicken? Cerberus Like it or not, the tea party is a true bottom-up populist grassroots phenomenon. It just happens to be a conservative. The freshman representatives elected last November have a greater allegiance to tea party values than they do to GOP leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeMinded Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Maybe a default won't be so bad, after all. We'll have massive hyperinflation, and the resulting worthlessness of the dollar will cause offshore jobs to come back home. And with gas prices 10 times what they are now, there'll be less traffic to deal with and cities will build more public transit. Oh who the fvck am I kidding. The rich and powerful will always get away with their assets covered, regardless of how they claim to treat the rest of the population. R.I.P. USA, 1776-2011. fml. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
december_brigette Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 What will happen to the sick and old????? I won't have enough money to kill myself or medicate myself. ARG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SashaSue Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Plus, I will be shocked - shocked - if the Republicans' Corporate Masters allow them to destroy the nation's credit. Cerberus These aren't your normal Republicans. They are part of the Tea Party. They hold no allegiance to anyone. They do as they please. Basically, they don't give a shit what the rest of us want. It's their way or the highway. Just look at Cantor. He is a prime example. Honestly, I think the freshman tea baggers make Cantor look like an elder statesman. Which is just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 argh. makes me even more nervous about keeping my health insurance. sigh. at least I'm on FMLA til Dec.... I have some time to see how this plays out. Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtclms Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 Cantor is a giant putz. I saw a joke bumpersticker the other day (I cannot remember where). "'If Obama's for it, I'm against it.' Cantor 2012" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SashaSue Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Plus, I will be shocked - shocked - if the Republicans' Corporate Masters allow them to destroy the nation's credit. Cerberus These aren't your normal Republicans. They are part of the Tea Party. They hold no allegiance to anyone. They do as they please. Basically, they don't give a shit what the rest of us want. It's their way or the highway. Just look at Cantor. He is a prime example. Honestly, I think the freshman tea baggers make Cantor look like an elder statesman. Which is just not right. True. Cantor is just way up there on my list right now. Can't stand the guy and his smug face. Oh, I couldn't agree more that he's a creepy, crawly, self-important, self=promoting, little man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
december_brigette Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hi, apparently last night (monday), obama gave a speech. I missed it because NickJr doesn't break for presidential speeches. (another post for another time...) Anyway, I read of it today. And I promptly sent emails to all the government-type people (who btw are all democrats) saying to push this now. I don't care who they are. I'd send lollipops saying "I love you." Someone has to PUSH these people. I should have wrote "I don't care who you or I have to fuck to get this to pass." I think I'll save that one for tomorrow. feeling a bit patriotic, summer HOT, and crazy, db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurochs Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 If it were just Boehner, there wouldn't be a huge issue. But it's not just Boehner, it's also Cantor and all the freshmen Republicans who think we shouldn't raise the debt limit at all. I can tell you this much: regardless of the outcome of this debt limit debacle, the 2012 election is going to be an enormous mess. EDIT: I'm somehow reminded of the budget showdown between Clinton and Gingrich. That one wound up being a huge score for Clinton, but it's hard to predict where this one is going to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammakanin Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 what the us forgets is that what it does will / does affect the entire world. case in point, the banking crisis of 2008. some of my friends over here lost their jobs because of the aftermath of that. our news media does not say much about it right now, norway has knocked it off the front page, which is to be expected. but what i have read it that most economic/politcal analyists here feel that it is too late. the us will default because there is no way they can get anything passed by tuesday. and they say that it is the elderly and poor who depend on government support that will be affected first, no pension or disability payments (i assume they mean ssi and ssdi, as well as medicaid/medicare) this will be followed by international industry, since most affairs are done in us$ and if this happens the dollar will be worthless, which means lower prices for the products. i work indirectly in international industry, and there is not enough domestic customers to keep the companies afloat. the first people to go will be the consultants. (that's me) and there will be no other companies to send us to. i fear for my job if this is not resolved, as i am the low man on the totem pole, so to speak. in good times i am easy to place, in bad, hard, as they will keep the engineers since they can do our jobs and get rid of the technicians. i can not believe that there will not be a resolution eventually, but i truly hope that it will come sooner rather than later the view from over here is that the tea party ideology is keeping a resolution from being passed. i don't know much about the tea party, except that it is very conservative. the ultra conservatives scare me. look at what happened in wisconsin in january. and now with the budget stalemate. i know some people in the us who (belong? is that the right word?) to the teaparty. they are all, if not wealthy, then certainly well-off, and to me, seem to only be concerned about themselves, not about the greater good of the us. well, okay, they CLAIM that limiting government will only help the us, but they forget about how many people are dependant on government programs, and what limiting government will do to those programs. and that makes me sad. oh, yeah, about taxes, if they knew what i paid in taxes they would be shocked. yeah, it's a pain to see the tax bill at declaration time, and yeah, it takes a big bite of my income, but i still have enough to live on (as long as i can keep the hypomanic shopping under control, this month is really tight because of that) the taxes went down and also the amount paid out from social programs down when the non-socialists came to power, as an unemployed person, i lost a lot of my benefits, including a retraining program that i was in after the election. and now they passed a law limiting the amount of time you can be on disability, so a lot of people are being forced out of that and into the labor market. i'd rather pay a little more and know that i have this safety net if i have to go on disability or lose my job. we are defininately starting to see a gap between the wealthy and non-wealthy that is getting bigger and bigger here. but nothing like the us. i fear that the us will become a land where a small amount of people will hold all the wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confused Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 What will happen to the sick and old????? I won't have enough money to kill myself or medicate myself. ARG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! db I'm worried about my parents. My father is 78 and blind and works part-time to make ends meet. If they don't get their social security check they won't be able to pay their bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMarshall Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 These petty politicians are playing musical chairs while the ship sinks... I'm not worried about the bills getting paid eventually. Thing is the long term damage they have already to the nation's financial reputation. There are countries (Russia for one) who were already working to get monetary exchange done in another unit besides the dollar. These shenanigans play right into their hand. The US will suffer mightily if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldneon Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Part of me, the more nihilistic me, would like to see the whole fucking mess come crumbling down. Our government has become so corrupt, is so indentured to corporate interests, that nothing short of hitting the reset button will have any sort of appreciable effect in moving us forward. The people have spoken, and they chose to cast their lot with the fucking backward-assed tea party crazies. We share this continent with willfully ignorant bitchbags who display little more than disdain for intelligent leadership in favor of allowing batshit crazy asshats like Michelle Bachman to (potentially) run the country – at this point, on most days, my feeling is, fuck em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 My favourite novel of all time, goodoldneon. I knew you were cool. You must write blogs! MUST. Anna Okay, I'll stop being bossy now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
december_brigette Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Is there somewhere I can hide? Im FREAKED OUT about it. I've been forced by others to try to explain this situation to my full-of-questions 4 yr old. you know how that is going? not so good. Its a good thing she is cute. Hopefully that will keep us in a place to live. but what shall we do about food? db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seniortooold Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Anyone else reminded of "Nero fiddling while Rome burns"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurochs Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 According to the Washington Post, the Treasury Department is expected to have enough money to issue Social Security checks on Wednesday, even without a raise in the debt ceiling. Beyond that, nobody can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Had to share this - a superb comment on a CNN story about the debt crisis from a reader named Cindi: We are not deadbeats because of the debt ceiling, rather we are deadbeats for permitting such ludicrous waste of our public, taxpayer money. We are deadbeats for not paying better attention to the votes of those who are supposed to be representing us. We are deadbeats for throwing ethics and morals out of the window in exchange for amassing more stuff, gaining access to greater amounts of pleasure, and one-upping our neighbors. We are deadbeats for enabling laziness in ourselves, our children, and our society. This situation shows that we are already deadbeats. But it does not have to be the final chapter. Instead of pointing fingers and labeling people, we need to place the blame squarely where it belongs - in our own laps. Republican and Democrat alike. The problem is an American problem. July 29, 2011 at 12:57 am Word. Cerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 One side had to blink in this stare down. Obama blinked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seniortooold Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I agree, Will. Why have the Dems always wimped out since 2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtclms Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 The fat lady has yet to sing. The House is still going to be an obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodoldneon Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 ^Apropos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeMinded Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 "God We Look Good, Going Down In Flames" -- The Exies (nb, slightly queasy and racy content in spots.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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