Epictetus Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'm new and trying to get off a benzo-this siter has been so helpful to me-thanks. I have been looking up info on how to get off the benzo and saw this: Aims: To explore the rationale for claiming that benzodiazepines cause dependence while selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) do not. Methods: We analysed the definitions of dependence and withdrawal reactions as they had appeared over time in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Diseases (DSM) and the International Classification of Diseases (ICD). We also compared the discontinuation symptoms described for the two drug groups in a systematic review. Results: The definition of substance dependence has changed over time in both the DSM and ICD. In the most recent classifications, several criteria, including behavioural, physiological and cognitive manifestations must be fulfilled. This change was published with the revision of the DSM-III revision in 1987 (DSM-IIIR), after the recognition of benzodiazepine dependence and just before the SSRIs were marketed in 1987-88. We found that discontinuation symptoms were described with similar terms for benzodiazepines and SSRIs and were very similar for 37 of 42 identified symptoms described as withdrawal reactions. Conclusions: Withdrawal reactions to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) appear to be similar to those for benzodiazepines; referring to these reactions as part of a dependence syndrome in the case of benzodiazepines but not SSRIs does not seem rational. © 2011 The Authors, Addiction © 2011 Society for the Study of Addiction Are they saying AD's are as hard to get off of as benzo's??-whats a dsm-IIIR I thought Ad's were not addictive-I took a cuple for many weeks and got right off of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetest1 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 You can develop a dependance on AD's and have withdrawals coming off them just like with benzo's. I had wicked withdrawals coming off of Effexor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yes one can become dependent on AD's meaning that one can experience withdrawal syndromes coming off them, yes. One doesn't tend to become "addicted" in the sense that one needs more and more of the medication to achieve the antidepressant effect, usually. Some ADs are harder to come off than others. I wouldn't exactly compare them to benzos personally, there are some significant differences in my opinion. One can also experience return of symptoms when stopping an AD, that can sometimes be mistaken as a w/d effect. Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The tolerance to benzos and associated withdrawal syndrome is not the main worry. Benzodiazepines can be abused, that is, massive doses are used by abusers to get "high" which leads to dependence on very large doses. You can't really get "high" from an antidepressant no matter what dose you take (unless it triggers mania in a bipolar person). However, that does not mean that it is easy to stop taking them. Typically when one talks about addiction, one is talking about seeking to get high and needing that high to get through life. This is not the same as suffering a withdrawal syndrome. People every day take benzos and AD's and people every day stop taking them. It's really not a problem unless you require a massive dose and a next "hit." Taken as prescribed both AD's and benzos are useful and therapeutic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epictetus Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Wow thanks-this can all be so damn confusing, but I think I have a clearer pictur now of what is meant. I guess taking a benzo all the time is really not so bad-right or am I still confused cause I had on psychiatrist tell me the opposite of what my regular doc said. He said benzo's were ok all the time and my regular doc said i would become addicted. but if its ok to give ad's which have not worked for me wouldn't the psychiatrist be right that benzos are too okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Many people take benzos long term to manage things like anxiety without ill effect. Often some effects will wear off-- such as sleepiness or feeling euphoric-- while the anti anxiety effects remain. Taking benzos long term really only leads to a problem if one seeks higher and higher dosages. But, usually, if things are working as they should, this is not a problem. This is not to say that if you're taking benzos long term you won't experience a w/d effect if you stop, you possibly will, but such effects are often vastly overblown. I'd follow pdoc's advice on this one. Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epictetus Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thank You Anna, I guess we all search for the perfect drug and there just isn't one for most people most of the time. I think my psyche doc looks at it that way. I'm gonna just keep on trying to get off the ativan on an everydy basis for now-I have gone almost 7 days with only one dose on Thanksgiving 1/2 mg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I've been on klonopin for about 8 years and never felt euphoric from it (I don't think) and also never had a problem if I skipped a dose. I am on 4 mg. a day with 2 additional mg. PRN. I almost never take the PRN. All the klonopin seems to do is ease my anxiety a little bit. Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epictetus Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Hi Tom -have you had to increase your dose to keep it working for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 One increase, about 5 years ago, went from 2 mg. plus 1 mg. PRN. So basically we doubled it, but before I took the PRN every day and now I rarely take it unless I am speaking in front of a crowd (a crowd is 3 or more ) or going to a big deal meeting. Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epictetus Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thanks Tom-it seems these drugs work well for some people and not for others. Ive been lookin at a site lately called Askapatient.com and it is so cool to see and read about peoples impressions and experiinces with different drugs. the site rates the drugs from 0-5 based on the input from patients. Xanax had a 3.9 which is very high compared to other meds for MI-Ad's etc. Ativan had about 3.5 and lexapro as i recall was 3.1 Another thing i like is they ask the patients to tell how long they been on a the drug their rating so you can see and read the people's experience who been taking say xanax for decades even and what they think of it and side effects etc. and the responses are all over the place-like from the most devilish drug known to man to a life saving modern miracle drug and this from experienced users not folks who have been on it for 2 weeks whose opinion I would not value much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epictetus Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 I just went to the site and looked up lexapro and began reading-all these nightmare stories-if i had read that stuff before I took it a few years ago i never would have took it. Fact is I took 20 mg for a whole year-did nothing for my anxiety though-but the only side effect was yawning a lot-my sleep was even better-it got rid of my headaches and best of all it made sex better-cause i lasted longer. gettin off it was a breeze-i just cut down a 5mg a week never had brain zaps Morale-ya just caNT go on other peoples expreience i guess-i mean any drug on that site gets totally different responses like night and day different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muriel Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I've been on Ativan for probably a total of almost 15 years, taking doses that range from 1mg a day to 5mg a day. I've had periods where I've been completely off of it. For the most part, I take 2-3mg a day but will go up or down as the situation warrants. What I don't do is take more unless I really, really need it. Having a bad day or a crying fit or not sleeping or whatever isn't enough for me to take an extra milligram or two. I wait out most panic attacks. I try to use coping skills as much as possible before resorting to increasing the benzos. I think this is why I'm able to still get by with a relatively small dose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfred Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Like the others say I have taken 1-4 mgs Ativan for decades with no increase or problems with tolerance or dependence. nf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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