terrydrives1979 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've been reading and researching about " Tardive Dyskinesia " concerning the long term use of antipsychotics. Things I have found out: - Atypicals are a lot less likely to cause it than the typicals - IF in the very unlikely case you develop TD with an atypical 1: It is more reversible 2: The symptoms of TD will not be as severe as on the typicals The thing about TD is that there is no certain timeline when OR IF you develop it. It could be months, years or decades. It is very individual. There is no real treatment for TD. The offending drug can only be stopped or reduced to see IF it will go away. The elderly are more likely to get it, especially elderly women. Also the atypicals were originally developed to be free of EPS coz of what the original typicals were well known for causing. The majority of us are on the atypicals and they haven't been around long enough to know their REAL long term effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Congrats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedoubt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Congrats? What do you mean by that? I appreciate reading any information I can get about TD (since I am on a typical) and see nothing wrong with terrydrives sharing that information here. Not everyone will have known it, and may not be motivated/able to go find that information. terrydrives-- Something else I just learned from my pdoc is that the risk of TD continues to go up with each exposure to an AP/AAP. So if someone takes one for three months, another one for six months and another for two months, that person would be starting the next one already having eleven months of exposure to APs. ETA-- Oh yah, and pdoc also said that "long term" means three months or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It would be nice if you could cite some sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 It would be nice if you could cite some sources. GOOGLE, Also my pdoc told me " TD is dose related " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedoubt Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 jt07, I'm not sure if you meant me or terrydrives, but when I get information from my pdoc, I don't bother to look up references for it. His Harvard educated brain is bigger than all the interwebs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Generally, there is more to TD than just being " twitchy looking ." I've seen a few old timers whose arms, legs and torso were affected and the pdocs were powerless to stop it. Some get painful muscle spasms aswell. You can't just blow it off and think " Oh I would rather have TD than have diabetes with one of the atypicals. " Actually you could blow it off and come back on this site and tell us about your " TD " experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedoubt Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Oh I would rather have TD than have diabetes with one of the atypicals. " That is exactly what I say and have written here on CB. I don't *want* TD, but I would rather have that than diabetes. Both of my ex-husbands have Type 1 diabetes, and one of them got it from Zyprexa. Their lives, health, future, life span, etc. are all severely impacted by the diabetes. I have no doubt that both would be willing to take on TD if they could get rid of diabetes. I'll ask them next time I see them. Regardless of the diabetes risk, my pdoc won't try AAPs on me anymore, because I've had horrible responses to every one I've tried. My only option is a typical AP, or dealing with psychosis and a brain that won't ever shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Both of my ex-husbands have Type 1 diabetes, and one of them got it from Zyprexa. Their lives, health, future, life span, etc. are all severely impacted by the diabetes. I met a girl who has been on Zyprexa for nearly 12 years straight and she doesn't have diabetes. I also have a friend who has been on Risperidone since 1997 and he doesn't have diabetes either. Yes, people are MORE likely to get diabetes from atypicals but I don't think everyone will ? not everyone who smokes pot will end up with schizophrenia? EDIT: not everyone who is thin suffers from bulimia? not everyone who uses street drugs ends up dead? and on and on... AND I had severe akathisia with the typicals which made it nearly impossible to sleep properly or to actually " do " anything coz I had to keep " moving ". My pdoc told me at the time that if I stayed on it long enough that it " might " be permanent and that all he could do would be lower the dose or switch AGAIN to " something else " which I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I just started Haldol, and I'm really worried about TD, so thank you for posting this! My pdoc also said that you usually see TD in cases with higher dosages...I'm hoping that's the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I just started Haldol, and I'm really worried about TD I don't know why they are still using Haldol- at least out in the community, one of my previous pdocs warned me that taking drugs like Haldol " eventually " leads to TD, it is only a matter of time. However, when it comes to aggressive patients on a psych ward NOTHING has replaced the old fashioned Haldol shot. You usually have to take it with Cogentin. I've been on it once and I couldn't talk and my tounge was paralysed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It would be nice if you could cite some sources. GOOGLE, Also my pdoc told me " TD is dose related " There's a lot of bullshit on the web. The info you provide isn't far off, but just saying "Google" isn't a credible source. Stuff like medical books and peer reviewed journals are a credible source. EPS (of which TD is a form) is not just rare on APs, it's very rare. It's not enough of a risk to justify nothing taking. More people get an allergic reaction from Aspirin than get TD from AAPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 It would be nice if you could cite some sources. GOOGLE, Also my pdoc told me " TD is dose related " There's a lot of bullshit on the web. The info you provide isn't far off, but just saying "Google" isn't a credible source. Stuff like medical books and peer reviewed journals are a credible source. EPS (of which TD is a form) is not just rare on APs, it's very rare. It's not enough of a risk to justify nothing taking. More people get an allergic reaction from Aspirin than get TD from AAPs. You are correct, I have a recent edition of a MIMS book (Aus. drug book) and it says under adverse side effects for Seroquel XR as an example: tardive dyskinesia(very rare) Also from my experience coz half the people on google haven't actually taken an AAP yet they make bad comments about them, that I've been on atypicals for more than 12 years and I don't have TD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 There's a lot of bullshit on the web. Such as getting obese and turning diabetic with atypicals is such a sure thing. When clearly the majority of people I've met are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The reason I asked for sources from the OP is because I'm trying to find data (as opposed to anecdotal evidence) on the incidence of TD among the various atypicals. They all have the same warning without much specifying how many go on to develop TD for their particular drug. And in general, I think that when posting information about a serious condition, it's nice to back up the claims. edit: Where is SashaSue when we need her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 The reason I asked for sources from the OP is because I'm trying to find data (as opposed to anecdotal evidence) on the incidence of TD among the various atypicals. They all have the same warning without much specifying how many go on to develop TD for their particular drug. The incidence of TD among atypicals I've read can't be determined yet coz they have not been around long enough and scientists guess, just keep in mind it's just a " guess " of a rate of 1% per year compared to the typicals of 5% per year. There is no doubt that there is alot lower risk, however there is still a risk. Maybe someone who actually has encountered it in person can step in and give the exact rate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The reason I asked for sources from the OP is because I'm trying to find data (as opposed to anecdotal evidence) on the incidence of TD among the various atypicals. They all have the same warning without much specifying how many go on to develop TD for their particular drug. The incidence of TD among atypicals I've read can't be determined yet coz they have not been around long enough and scientists guess, just keep in mind it's just a " guess " of a rate of 1% per year compared to the typicals of 5% per year. There is no doubt that there is alot lower risk, however there is still a risk. Maybe someone who actually has encountered it in person can step in and give the exact rate ? I find it unlikely that all typicals have a 5% chance per year and all atypicals a 1%. There's got to be some variation from drug to drug. I've been meaning to do a research post on EPS for a while now. Maybe I'll get to it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I find it unlikely that all typicals have a 5% chance per year and all atypicals a 1%. There's got to be some variation from drug to drug. Well, just as an example you can't say with weight gain on the atypicals that Zyprexa you will gain " x " amount of kilos. Some gain alot, some gain a little and some who are in the minority don't gain any weight. There's got to be some variation from drug to drug. Most of the time there is a variation from " person to person " Do you expect the experts to say for example that Zyprexa has a rate of exactly " x " % for TD and Risperidone has a rate of exactly " x " % for TD and so on and so on. Some people who develop TD it may be permanent, some it may go away and some the TD may reduce over a certain period of time. And then again how " long " that time will be will vary again from " person to person. " We can also start a new thread and argue about dosage aswell of each drug, hell everyone is on different doses and there is no average dose of a certain drug. I think with any side effect everything is individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sure side effects are individual. That doesn't mean you can't state that of (x) patients (y)% had side effect (z). The PDR has listings like that for every medication. If you don't measure stuff like that you're not being scientific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I apologize, I was wrong I was off by 2.9% Under Adverse Effects http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Quetiapine Both typical and atypical antipsychotics can cause tardive dyskinesia. According to one study, rates are lower with the atypicals at 3.9% as opposed to the typicals at 5.5%. Another source about TD http://en.wikipedia....dive_dyskinesia EDIT: " According to one study,... " There must be alot of studies out there on this.... I give up... who knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Er, Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, particularly when it comes to controversial subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Er, Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source, particularly when it comes to controversial subjects. Maybe you can post a reliable source website to prove me wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydrives1979 Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry A LOT of editing: MY THEORY is " I " believe TD is inevitable. If you could live long enough to stay on the same antipsychotic. Typical or Aypical DOESN'T MATTER coz the % chance keeps going up and going up the longer you are on it. I believe that just with the atypicals that genuine cases ( not that crap on youtube or anything off the net - no offence ) will EVENTUALLY happen mostly not sooner but A LOT A LOT LATER. We are talking DECADES, could be even centuries. So realistically most of us won't live long enough to get it or would stay on the same drug long enough. Most of us will just die of some illness and the rest will just die of old age. Put it this way, IF you could live forever you will get it... one day. This is just My theory. Plz point out the loops holes if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.