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Rose Tyler

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You can't run away from yourself. You're attached to yourself at the back.

I understand exactly what you're saying. The thing is, you're already halfway to the point where you can start to overcome this. What I mean is that you have reached a point of introspection and self-awareness that you can abstractly recognize that your disordered thinking patterns are disordered, point out what isn't normal about them, identify their direct influences on your mood, and speculate on their origins. This is all very good. The next step is to train your dominant cognitive awareness to form an objective distance from the patterns it observes, to consider them as a phenomenon rather than as an expression of normality.

Remember - everything that voice says is a lie. It is always a lie. It is either a lie of falsehood, or a lie of omission, or a half-truth construed to ill, but regardless, it is a lie. You must reach the point at which you realize without even thinking about it that that voice is lying, and immediately challenge anything it says. For example:

If you can't accept yourself, then why would anyone else want anything to do with you?

Are we expected to simply take the premise of that at face value? I might well ask, If someone else seems to want something to do with you, why, then, shouldn't you accept yourself? The argument is a simple reflexive equivalent, but is actually stronger because it draws upon empirical observation rather than an unsupportable assumption like the first argument does.

This is the hardest part. This is where the heavy lifting comes in. You can overcome this negative thinking, but you may have to become adversarial with a part of yourself in order to do it. Some part of you is going to have to stand up for the rest of you and tell the liar to fuck off. I don't have a formula for how to arrive at that personal watershed, but ultimately it will be a decision you make whether or not you're conscious of making it, and an action you take whether or not you're aware of acting on it.

I always keep coming back to the quote from Milton at the bottom of my signature here:

The mind is its own place, and in itself / Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

I'm not going to pity you. I'm just going to wait for you to decide how you're going to live.

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On 6/6/2021 at 4:19 AM, Cerberus said:

You can't run away from yourself. You're attached to yourself at the back.

I understand exactly what you're saying. The thing is, you're already halfway to the point where you can start to overcome this. What I mean is that you have reached a point of introspection and self-awareness that you can abstractly recognize that your disordered thinking patterns are disordered, point out what isn't normal about them, identify their direct influences on your mood, and speculate on their origins. This is all very good. The next step is to train your dominant cognitive awareness to form an objective distance from the patterns it observes, to consider them as a phenomenon rather than as an expression of normality.

Remember - everything that voice says is a lie. It is always a lie. It is either a lie of falsehood, or a lie of omission, or a half-truth construed to ill, but regardless, it is a lie. You must reach the point at which you realize without even thinking about it that that voice is lying, and immediately challenge anything it says. For example:

If you can't accept yourself, then why would anyone else want anything to do with you?

Are we expected to simply take the premise of that at face value? I might well ask, If someone else seems to want something to do with you, why, then, shouldn't you accept yourself? The argument is a simple reflexive equivalent, but is actually stronger because it draws upon empirical observation rather than an unsupportable assumption like the first argument does.

This is the hardest part. This is where the heavy lifting comes in. You can overcome this negative thinking, but you may have to become adversarial with a part of yourself in order to do it. Some part of you is going to have to stand up for the rest of you and tell the liar to fuck off. I don't have a formula for how to arrive at that personal watershed, but ultimately it will be a decision you make whether or not your conscious of making it, and an action you take whether or not you're aware of acting on it.

I always keep coming back to the quote from Milton at the bottom of my signature here:

The mind is its own place, and in itself / Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

I'm not going to pity you. I'm just going to wait for you to decide how you're going to live.

Sorry, only just noticed your response Cerberus. Talking good sense as usual. There's quite a way to go after self-awareness though, and it brings it's own problems. It can be easier to accept the miserable thoughts rather than start a civil war in your own head. If things can be better then I'm a fuckwit who has wasted my life. Easier and safer to keep thinking the same old shit. "Everyone hates you blah blah blah". So no need to ever try, because you're only going to fail anyway. And yes this is bullshit, but that makes me fucked up and unstable for thinking such things and taking them seriously. Rubber banded. Think I'm getting away but "boing!" right back there. Empirical evidence is important. You can tell yourself that you're a wonderful and intelligent person but where's the evidence? Still alone. Still hate being alone but also afraid of the alternative. I was making progress before Covid happened. Providing evidence that I really am human and can get along with my fellow apes. People are OK, and they don't seem to agree with your miserable, self-loathing appraisal of yourself. I guess the evidence has dried up, for obvious reasons. Gone a bit numb. And that's not good.

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7 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

It can be easier to accept the miserable thoughts rather than start a civil war in your own head.

Yes. It most certainly can. The civil war in my head has been raging for nearly 35 years, and got so bad that I had to invent an arbitrator to impose a peace so that the two sides didn't savage each other to death. I split my psyche into two warring halves (and dear God, they abhor one another), and then later had to create a third persona to mediate between them. It's more of a cold war now, but there's no sign of a reconciliation on the horizon. Yet, I consider this state of affairs preferable to the self-loathing I once endured. That was a different kind of warfare, but more like a self-genocide. It couldn't continue.

I'm not suggesting any of this is going to be easy. I'm just saying it's doable. It's within your reach. The actual barriers to your making the change are things you will either overcome, or not, entirely because you decide you decide to do it.

7 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

I was making progress before Covid happened.

I'm going to stop you there. Nothing that happened because of COVID-19 counts. The entire planet got set back on its heels by the pandemic, so to whatever degree you feel you were set back or constrained, the guy standing next to you was set back and constrained as well. If we all had to take two steps back at the same time, we're all still in the same position relative to one another as when we started. If you were making good progress before COVID forced you into isolation again, then resume those things that were making you successful now that Flop-Headed Boris isn't keeping you in a bubble anymore. If it worked then, why won't it work now? That's the thing about empirical evidence - now that it's proved something works the first time, you have to either accept it or actively disprove it. And if it was true the first time, you'll have a tough time disproving. That's why acknowledging empirical experience makes it tougher to simply slip back into miserable thinking - you can, but the evidence to the contrary is sitting there staring at you and isn't going away.

7 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

I'm a fuckwit who has wasted my life.

That is a) a premature statement, and b) not for you to decide. Your life is still in progress. While you live, it doesn't matter in the least what you've done. The only thing that matters is what you do next. Only when you have, as it were, left the building, will it be possible for those who remain to evaluate whether you wasted the time you had on Earth, and they will not evaluate it by the effect your actions had on you, but by the effect your actions had on others. It's impossible for any of us to know the full effect of our actions. Me unknowingly kicking a pebble as I walk could change the direction of a beetle so that it walked along a different path in such a way that it attracted the attention of a bird that flew down to eat it only to distract the driver of a car who veered into the oncoming lane and struck head-on the vehicle carrying the Prime Minister, killing him dead on the spot. Had I not taken that step at that place at that moment, the Prime Minister would have gone on his way without incident. As it is, I would read about it in the news and never know I had anything to do with it. That is to say, this would have happened, had you not inadvertently dropped a shiny coin out of your pocket which attracted a magpie to pick it up, and in its haste to take its new treasure back to its nest, flew by and became entangled in the Prime Minister's hair, causing a five-minute delay in the motorcade getting underway, and preventing it from being in the road at the moment when the previous distracted motorist swerved - and thus, quite unawares, you become a hero to Tories everywhere. Naturally, any action of yours could just as easily save a life, shape the destiny of a nation, or just make somebody's day. You may never know it, but your life will not have been wasted.

I am a published author of children's books. Eleven of my picture books for children and two of my novels for young adults were published. When I wrote them, I told myself that if one book of mine could just help one child to learn to love to read as much as my favorite book did for me, I would be successful, even though I realized it was highly unlikely that I would ever know whether that happened or not.

Until one day, years later, someone told me that one of my books made them love reading for the first time.

No one else has ever said it, but at least for one person, to that extent, my effort was not wasted. It almost makes up for killing the Prime Minister.

 

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10 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Until one day, years later, someone told me that one of my books made them love reading for the first time.

That is a lovely thing to hear. I did not know that you're a published author. I knew it! You are J.K. Rowling! Nah, not transphobic enough. I've only ever met one other published author before. That didn't turn out well. I got on OK with him and we talked about books. Bit excitable though. He ran a literature group, which is where I met him, but that fell apart after he said something really offensive about the children of one of the women who attended. Not sure why I'm mentioning this. I do wonder what lessons you taught in your books. Lessons I'd want to teach a kid - nobody is perfect, everyone fails sometimes, some people are just cunts and aren't worth thinking about. "Harry Potter and the bunch of cunts."  Sorry. I'm never going to be a children's author. Too pessimistic and sweary.

Anyway, back to talking about me. Yay! I guess a problem has always been that I can think objectively and rationally, but that this ignores and denies what I'm feeling. I was thinking that that's maybe a positive of mental illness in some ways. Although it doesn't usually feel like one. Too fucking rational - have to think about everything. When I've expressed some opinion on here my brain comes up with counter arguments as to why I'm talking shit. Uncertainty is a good thing in a lot of ways. People just accept the shit they're told and get on with being human. I had to learn to walk by thinking of putting one foot in front of the other. In some ways. Try to be rational like normal people. Normal people aren't at all rational. But this is all crap. In some ways I am hyper-rational, but in other ways I know I'm completely irrational. "Everyone hates me?" Haven't met everyone. I don't know if I'm a good person but I don't think I'm a bad one. Depression makes you numb and you disengage from other people. Don't care, nothing matters. Now beat yourself up for being so insensitive and uncaring.

I need constant reminders that I'm not a worthless prick. That's not easy to achieve when you think you're a worthless prick. You're just boring people! Leave them alone, they aren't interested in your shit. Don't invest yourself in relationships and it won't bother you so much when they fail. Told you so! Self-fulfilling prophecy. Expect nothing from anyone and never be disappointed when they live down to your expectations. But it doesn't work like that. Blame myself. Been spending too much time alone recently. Wake up too early in the morning and my brain won't shut up. "Let's think about the Israeli-Palestinian problem, the gender question, why Piers Morgan is such a dick". I just want to get back to sleep. But how can I sleep when I'm trying to reconcile my support for the rights of trans-women with the thought that maybe it is unfair to allow them to compete as women in the olympics. Ahhh! Go to sleep!

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I love the adverts here. Shop at Cotosen.com if you're dumb as fuck. Looks like a catalogue for fuckwits who stormed the capitol. Tactical T-shirts? What the fuck is a tactical T-shirt? Oh you can buy tactical shorts and trousers too. I think I know what tactical means. Am I wrong? Tactical T-shirt? Tactical pants? "Women's outdoor tactical printed sweatshirt." Firstly - oh you can fucking wear it outdoors. Wow! Amazing! That's a great selling point. And it's tactical in some undefined way. Doesn't seem to have any pockets so not that fucking tactical there dickhead. That's a tactical belt. It's just a fucking belt! Where does the word 'tactical' come into it? Well I have this tactic of keeping my pants up. Is that what you mean? Can't see any tactical underpants. I'm wearing a tatical t-shirt, because I think the earth is flat and Trump won the election. Let other people know how fucking dumb you are by shopping at Cotosen.com.

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6 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

People just accept the shit they're told and get on with being human.

Somewhere, I came across some sort of study, that claimed the higher your IQ, the more likely you were to be unhappy. Reading your post, it's like looking inside my own brain.

1 hour ago, Fluent In Silence said:

Tactical T-shirts

I couldn't help myself, and had to google them. At first, I was like, I could totally wear this shit, especially the Holy Dragon Printed Fashion T-Shirt :D. It would save me buying new clothes, then wearing them for 3 years until they're soft enough not to drive me bonkers.  After scrolling down a bit more I was laughing out loud.

 

Oh, you're not a worthless prick 😉

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9 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

I do wonder what lessons you taught in your books.

I didn't teach any lessons. Children loathe lesson-y books, and rightly so. An author who sets out to write a book for children to teach them a lesson has no business writing books for children. And no, I'm nothing like on the level of Rowling - you can publish a dozen books and still nobody will have any idea you exist. It's only the rare few authors whose work gains that kind of notoriety and following. I would love to invent a fictional character or setting that so fundamentally spoke to the human condition that millions of people would identify with it and make it their own - it would be a signal to me that I might actually be a part of the same species. So far, however, no luck.

It sounds as though your brain works much as mine does. Very regrettable.

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On 7/2/2021 at 5:46 PM, Fluent In Silence said:

 

I love the adverts here.

 

I find I get the really ridiculous ones… like I hate Tarot cards and think psychics are kinda bullshit. But those are the ads I get and they seem directed almost intentionally to annoy me.

 

 

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11 hours ago, DogMan said:

i'm wondering if at any point, ever, somebody was told "try not to worry" and had it help them

 

like a "why didn't i think of that?" moment

My brain “try not to worry”

also my brain “ ooohh crowds!  Let’s throw a panic attack here”

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On 7/5/2021 at 3:17 AM, DogMan said:

i'm wondering if at any point, ever, somebody was told "try not to worry" and had it help them

 

like a "why didn't i think of that?" moment

Amazing advice. Have you tried not letting things get you down and just getting on with life too. Such wisdom. Cheer up! #heavyfuckingsarcasm.

I was thinking that if homosexuality really did cause natural disasters then I'd probably give it a go just once to feel that sense of power. Note to religious bigots - you're making homosexuality sound pretty damn cool.

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Imbecile: "Try not to worry."

Me:   "Try not to speak." [Instantly begins focusing sharply on the thing I'm not supposed to be thinking about in an effort not to think about it]

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On 7/4/2021 at 5:29 PM, wookie said:

like I hate Tarot cards and think psychics are kinda bullshit. But those are the ads I get and they seem directed almost intentionally to annoy me.

Because they read your mind😬

 

I am a single male, living alone, who to my certain memory has not purchased a single article of clothing for myself beyond underwear and an Irish day coat for the last 40 years. What I wear I receive as gifts from other people. Why, then, am I besieged with ads for ladies' apparel? The closest I've ever come to putting on a dress is considering wearing a kilt in honor of my Scots heritage—and genetically I'm only 25% Scottish.

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I worked as a jeweler for six years. If crystals and/or gemstones had any medicinal properties, jewelers would be the healthiest, most well-balanced people on the planet. Let me assure that they are not.

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17 minutes ago, Gearhead said:

I worked as a jeweler for six years. If crystals and/or gemstones had any medicinal properties, jewelers would be the healthiest, most well-balanced people on the planet. Let me assure that they are not.

I'm going to have to share this information with my crystal buying 18yr old.

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On 7/12/2021 at 2:19 AM, Gearhead said:

Have you tried going for a walk? Maybe doing yoga? 

I remember waiting an hour and a half for some fucking psychiatrist to tell me I needed to relax and exercise.  I was division 1 athlete and I still exercise 5-7 days a week.  I wasn’t sleeping.  When I acted annoyed at his response he said that was a borderline tendency, and labeled me with borderline. He spent about 5 minutes with me.

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18 minutes ago, wookie said:

I remember waiting an hour and a half for some fucking psychiatrist to tell me I needed to relax and exercise.  I was division 1 athlete and I still exercise 5-7 days a week.  I wasn’t sleeping.  When I acted annoyed at his response he said that was a borderline tendency, and labeled me with borderline. He spent about 5 minutes with me.

Jesus.

 

Ruminating about the horror show of Dr's I've had. So fortunate I've found my Forever Pdoc.

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On 7/13/2021 at 4:17 PM, wookie said:

I remember waiting an hour and a half for some fucking psychiatrist to tell me I needed to relax and exercise.  I was division 1 athlete and I still exercise 5-7 days a week.  I wasn’t sleeping.  When I acted annoyed at his response he said that was a borderline tendency, and labeled me with borderline. He spent about 5 minutes with me.

This is why I'm afraid to try therapy again.  They need to come with a return policy so if I go in and they tell me to do deep breathing and exercise I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars for something I could have gotten by asking for advice from a guy sitting next to me on the bus.

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