Benzos and Memory Problems?

[YinPhases]

Hey gang,

I've been on Klonopin for over 3 years now (currently at 2.5mg taken before bed each night).  I started taking it after having anxiety-related  persistent dp/dr symptoms to the point where I couldn't swallow solid food, drive, sit through classes without panic attacks, or even just walk around the house without feeling like I was constantly about to fall over.

While the Klonopin got rid of the problems the largest tradeoff was my memory which has continued to get worse over the last 3 years.  My uncle has similar memory problems taking 1mg of Klonopin/night and he's been on it for a few years more than I.  I took Aricept which helped marginally for a while but after a year or so the benefits seemed to peter out.  I've recently stopped the Aricept entirely since insurance decided to stop covering off label uses.

To get to the question, would attempting to switch to a different Benzo such as Valium likely leave me with the same memory issues or is it worth a try?  Any input/suggestions would be appreciated.

Jason

[Annabegins]

well, jason,

ive only been on 2 benzo's. i used to be on xanax, and currently taking kolonopin as well. ive had memory problems with both, ive never taken valium, so i dont want to give you the wrong info on that, but i think that it probably would be the same. hopefully someone who has been on it can tell you thier experience. but dont take xanax, it really messed me up. it was almost to a point where i didnt know what was going on around me. and i got addicted, and id have major panic attacks and all sorts of problems with it. and memory loss, hell yes. but kolonopin hasnt been too bad for me. i have noticed a bit of a blurry memory though. why dont you try lowering the dose a little? then a little more. ask your pdoc.

[YinPhases]

Thanks much for the input.  I have been trying to lower the dosage over the course of the past year.  I had been up to 3mg/night and I got down to about 2mg/night a couple months back (with the help of neurofeedback, cbt, exercise, a good diet, and strong work ethic) but the past couple months it seems like I've had one thing after another going wrong for reasons I've had trouble pinning down and my anxiety levels have been getting up enough that I've had to raise it a bit again.

I realize I'm likely to have to add in another medication to help lower the Klonopin but the question is what to try next.  I have OCD (mostly obsessiveness, ruminating, minor hoarding tendencies) which may or may not be the umbrella that all my other anxiety-related problems fall under so I have tried adding meds to target that such as Zoloft and Luvox.  The Zoloft was a complete nightmare and Luvox didn't get a fair trial really because it made me so tired I was falling asleep basically everywhere which I couldn't afford to be doing at that time.  About 10 years ago I had been on Prozac and then Effexor... I never thought they really helped me at the time (my dxs were different) but I can't be sure and I tolerated them quite well.  I was on a very small amount of Celexa with the Klonopin for a couple years but I've been off it since July due to the side-effects.  Right now I'm awaiting a meeting with one of my pdocs to go over recent QEEG results at which point we'll likely discuss possible courses of action.

Oh, and to clarify on my memory problems... I seem to have trouble now forming new memories very well and have constant tip-of-the-tongue syndrome (especially with names of people, things, or any kind of label really).  The past few years are a complete blur to me while most of my life before that I still remember every detail of extremely vividly.  I was looking to try to return to school in the fall and finish my CS degree (which I've been working on since 96, gah) but I fear I may have serious problems if my memory doesn't improve.  I should probably post this part elsewhere, but has anyone else had experience with dealing with memory problems at school or trying cognitive rehab for memory issues?

Thanks again,

Jason

[bleululu]

Jason

I can definately tell you from my experience that your memory loss will not be helped with Valium.  Of course you should speak to your pdoc, but I have been on Xanax for around 7yrs, along with a gammit of anti depressants like the ones you had mentioned.  I also didn't find they did much for my anxiety.

I am now on 5x5mg Valium a day (I was on 8) for the last 4 years.  Yes, I still function, but it is not the answer I want to always have.  The effectiveness of the Valium are probably non exsistant by now, as I am psychologically and physically dependant on them.  I was not informed enough of the long term usage/dependance issues associate with Benzo's when I was prescribed them.  Now I am struggling to minimise my usage.

Anyway, back to your dilemma.  As for the memory loss as being one of your major side effects.  Valium, in my experience, definately has that same affect.  I choose when to drive the car depending on how alert I am.  I sometimes have realised that I might get to a store and forget completely what I went to get.  Simple tasks for some, not so easy for us on Benzo's.

What I have found helpful in my life is to write lists and have visable calendars.  This way it helps getting through the day and not concerning myself and making myself more anxious about forgetting tasks, etc.  The more I worry about my memory worries, then I tend to send my anxiety levels sky high and I end up doing nothing.

So for the moment I hope you find a way to cope with the memory loss, and also I think like the others said, consult you pdoc about your concerns.  We are here too!

Take care, Bleu

[YinPhases]

Thanks very much for your reply Bleu.

Very good tips about keeping lists and a visible calendar.  That's actually precisely what I've been doing for the past year.  I refined my methods a bit thanks to CBT and reading David Allen's book "Getting Things Done" which really emphasizes getting everything out of the head and into a trusted system.

Like you said though, this isn't what I want as a long-term solution either.

Jason

[Annabegins]

i have that tip of the tounge prob too,. i'll be like, im going to go to the fridge, i mean bathroom. if thats what your meaning by that. i do that all the time,. i usually do it when i HAVENT taken my kolonopin though.

[chimpmaster]

Regular benzo use has an amnesic side effect, unfortunately,

If you can limit usage to a couple of days per week, or every other day, its better.

But for most people, including me, there is some memory impairment (not severe) when taking either xanax or diazepam regularly.

[YinPhases]

Regular benzo use has an amnesic side effect, unfortunately,

If you can limit usage to a couple of days per week, or every other day, its better.

But for most people, including me, there is some memory impairment (not severe) when taking either xanax or diazepam regularly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hrm, you wouldn't happen to know the cause of this effect or why it's better if used on a less frequent basis would you?  Would dosage time likely effect it?  For example, I take the full 2.5mg Klonopin before bed every night... now if I switched to taking it in the morning instead, could that make any difference at all in terms of the amnesic effect?

At the moment I can't function if I don't take it daily but perhaps it's something I can work on if taking it less regularly during the week will help at all.

I'm going to get my QEEG results in a couple hours and I'll be discussing things with my pdoc.  Wish me luck, heh.

Jason

[Guest BOB]

Regular benzo use has an amnesic side effect, unfortunately,

Hrm, you wouldn't happen to know the cause of this effect or why it's better if used on a less frequent basis would you?

[groovyone]

Well, I guess I must be a bit of an exception.  I don't seem to have any serious memory issues.  Perhaps I'm not that much of a regular benzo user? How long are we all talking here? I've seen a few people throw around a few figures in years.  I've been on/off for periods of months at a time.

I'm more quick to blame my other meds (both past and present) namely anticonvulsants for all the memory problems that I have ever had.  Plus my actual diagnoses--ADD especially.  Although when I'm flipping out in conjunction with the bipolar the two are inseparable so it's just one big mess.

So I don't know...hard to blame just one culprit for memory loss?

Devil's Advocate,

Karen

[eveningniteshade]

So I don't know...hard to blame just one culprit for memory loss?

Devil's Advocate,

Karen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my case, nothing much else has happened and I don't take any other medication.

I started taking Xanax in 2000, and I think it was 2002 that myself and family and friends started noticing memory problems and decline in ability to learn new things, loss of drive , and a completely disorganised mind owing to the fact that it's hard to have organisation if you don't remember what you were planning to do 5 seconds ago, or if you suddenly do, you see something which reminds you about another task that needs doing, you start doing that and forget you ever were planning on doing something else and believe the current task is the one you set out to do. This can branch off many many times.

In the end you do nothing.

I have been known to have a shower then 30mins later have another shower, as I have no memory of previously having a shower. The memory is there, however I believed that memory was of a shower I had maybe the night beofore. I have to check my toothbrush to see if it's wet to deduce if I"ve brushed my teeth, taste my coffee to check if I put sugar in it already. This memory thing is quite debilitating.

I've not had any physical head trauma, nor any illness. I do concede there is no direct evidence Xanax is to blame, but as it's not organic brain injury I think it's the most likely

[Libby]

I was seeing a Neuro psychologist about my memory problems (I'm on Xanax) . She was of the opinion that long term use of benzodiazapines re-wires the brain and will cause a loss of intellect. She works with elderly people and believes those on nightly temazepam medication fade away faster intellectually than those that aren't on Benzo's.

omg, this scares the hell out of me.  I used to be considered "smart."  People used to comment on it all the time, that I was a walking encyclopedia.  Now, after at least 10 yrs of daily benzo use, I feel like an IDIOT.  I honestly feel that my brain is messed up.

A friend was talking about churches in Europe and "flying buttresses."  I used to know exactly what flying buttresses were, from elementary school, for pete's sake.  I could not remember at all.  I knew it was some architectural feature, but had NO CLUE what kind.

furthermore, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.  People ask me how my weekend was, and I LITERALLY CANNOT remember.  I get confused on the day of the week.  On Tuesday, I thought it was Friday all day.  I even left phone messages for people, stating that I was calling on Friday.  Another thing, I've been putting "October" on correspondence even though it's November.  I was CERTAIN that it was October.  Even though my computer automatically put November, I manually changed it to October.  The worst part is that these letters are "signed" by my boss.  I just pray that no one mentions it to her!

I've had it!  I'm going to ask pdoc about Seroquel tomorrow, and pray that he says yes, and also yes to SAMPLES because I have NO insurance.  I think Seroquel is about $600 a month.

Can anybody compare Seroquel and benzo's in terms of memory impairment?  And is this impairment reversible? Might I become "smart" again?

[Jemini]

This is emphaitcally not advice, but I've been tapering off Clonazepam, have been on it for about 4 years, and am down to .5 mg, about ready to try lowering to .375. At this point I am really noticing memory improvement and greater clarity in other areas. Better concentration. My guitar playing has returned to a greater level of ability again. I'm actually a bit shocked at all this. I had never read of such memory impairment, depression, and other cognitive problems from benzos. That I can recall.

It has been difficult to get down to this dose, to say the least, but I've learned more about how to taper off benzos. There's more about this in other of my recent posts. I don't want to repeat all that. Anyway yeah it does seem to impair memory over time, and in very subtle and insidious ways. Also, from my experience, it does make a difference taking it in the morning as opposed to night. I think it interferes with REM sleep somehow. Also I've occasionally had a little hangover from taking it too late; I have always tried to spread the dosages so that I'm sort of coming off it by bedtime. Even though it does take longer than this to metabolize.

[chimpmaster]

Benzo's have an amnesic effect very similar to alcohol. That's why regular, heavy use can cause some memory loss or less than ideal memory function.

By taking a standard dose daily or every few days, you arent going to feel like you drank 2 bottles of vodka by any means, but over time you will notice some degree of reduced memory performance.

[Penny Century]

does anyone happen to know of any studies on this?

i take xanax xl about 5 days a week.  i'm also a graduate student.  while i can not at all imagine functioning without benzos, i also will never get a job if i loose my brain.

i know that i've seen family members turn to brain mush after years of usage, but i assumed this was because they were (imho) over using their meds, and so i assumed that as i don't take it every day and don't use it in doses higher than my doctor things is appropriate, that i would be fine.

is this brain fade from benzos reversable, or am i perma mushing my brain.

[Jemini]

There is no definitive answer to your last question, and no one is funding any research that I'm aware of to look at such things for ANY DRUG, with the exception of alcohol, cocaine, nicotine, heroin, and certain psych meds as related to specific conditions like tardive dyskinesia. However much of what is known about the brain shows that it can recover from an amazing range of effects. Post-addiction studies tend to show that given enough time and proper health, people can return to normal levels of functioning after years of drug-induced dysfunction, and often the most lingering effects are "psychological" rather than physical -- e.g. learned habits must be unlearned; missed stages of development must be addressed.

My own experience with benzos (currently Klonopin, which only a little over a year ago I firmly believed I could not function without) is that the negative effects did subside relatively quickly. Right now as I am withdrawing from Klonopin I have noticed my memory actually surprising me with how good it is. My senses are sharper, and I notice more going on around me. I'm having some mild difficulties from withdrawal too, but it's encouraging to see the improvements.

Most critical if and when you decide to get off any benzos (or any drug) is to learn about how to safely do this. Part of the reason I'd come to believe I would always need some drugs in the past was that my attempts to come off them resulted in such chaos and disturbance. I really didn't know (nor did my doctors) how bad withdrawal could be. Benzos are considered among the hardest drugs to get off among many doctors -- people on high doses sometimes require inpatient detox. Taking xanax PRN as you are is better than if you were taking it daily, but depending on the dosage and how long you've been on it you may have built up a physical dependency.

Hope this helps.

[Jemini]

BTW cool Love and Rockets avatar

[Penny Century]

BTW cool Love and Rockets avatar

gotta love love and rockets, and all of the spin offs.  though i am of course thrilled that the brothers decided to restart love and rockets.  i think i have a near complete collection of their stuff (missing a few issues of girl crazy, etc.)  they make me happy.