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If you are taking either of these medications and are experiencing suicidal feelings, I want you to hold on, and tell yourself it is the medication and not you. Hold on: you have a precious human life - taper gradually off the drugs, and find other ways of dealing with the symptoms for which the medication was prescribed.

After my experience with the world of psychiatry, I have this to say: if you can find a way of functioning without antipsychotics, then don't be pressurised into taking those medications. I found in my case that even when I was largely functional, and not suffering too much, there was some zeal on the part of the psychiatric profession in trying to push antipsychotics at me, simply by virtue of the diagnosis. The diagnosis was an episode of psychosis, or with psychotic elements, and therefore antipsychotics were strongly recommended. This was even after I was experiencing these strong suicidal feelings which were so uncharacteristic of me, and which I hadn't been experiencing before taking the drugs.

I decided to try an extremely low dose of Abilify - less than the so-called "effective minimum dose", since I found it hard to function on the dose originally prescribed (something which the prescribing psychiatrist didn't really accept.) On this "below minimum" dose of Abilify, I started to experience strong agitation - one of the side-effects. Therefore I doubled my dose of Clonazepam. As a result, I became very tired - my energy levels plummeted, and I found myself having to limit my sporting activity to about a third of previous levels. My walking became relatively slow. I started to develop symptoms associated with schizophrenia which I hadn't had previously: less mobility in my facial expressions, it started to be a struggle to look after myself, to clean my home, to go shopping - though I forced myself through it all. I started to go to bed early because of extreme tiredness, and stopped going out in the evening, and as a result became socially isolated, and felt myself spiral into a depression. Weeks before becoming depressed, I already started to experience suicidal feelings - disembodied: unlinked to depression. My depression was so severe that I found it hard to eat, and rather than gaining weight as is the tendency on this drug, I rapidly lost weight. I found it hard to write fluently - the drug seemed to affect my muscular ability, and lost my articulateness, finding it relatively hard to express myself (and as you can see, this is something I have no trouble doing without the antipsychotics!). I lost my creative ability, and was unable to engage in the activities that made my life meaningful. These also contributed to my spiralling downwards. Deep inside the depression, I lost interest in all the things that had made my life meaningful up to that time.

Instead of accepting my view that the suicidal feelings and depression were linked to the drug Abilify, the psychiatrist described it as "the evolution of an illness".

Another psychiatrist decided to transfer me instead to the antipsychotic Seroquel, even though it states in the contra-indications that this drug may intensify existing suicidal feelings, and surely enough, it intensified mine. Since (I presume) I was on such a low dose of Abilify, the psychiatrist didn't instruct me to taper Abilify, but simply to stop it, and start Seroquel. I was taking half a tablet with the minimum dosage. Since I didn't like feeling suicidal, and I guess I didn't want to end up going that way, I decided I wanted to discontinue the antipsychotic medication. I was told that I could simply stop taking the medication: I suppose it wasn't felt necessary to advise me to taper the medication as it was below the minimum effective dose as recognized by the psychiatrists. (As a result of my experience, I would advise anyone to taper when coming off an antipsychotic - however small the dose. If, like me, you are taking half a tablet a day, you could then take it every other day for a while, and then every third day, etc.) I started to experience almost total insomnia which lasted about 6 weeks. At every stage, it was not acknowledged by psychiatrists that the manifestations I was experiencing were caused by medication, or withdrawal from it. Thus, the insomnia was attributed to my depression, rather than to withdrawal from the medication. It was on the internet that I was able to learn that chronic insomnia is a withdrawal effect from Abilify and Seroquel, and since I had only taken Seroquel for a few days while still having Abilify in my system, I must have been withdrawing from both. I was prescribed the highest dose of the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) intensified by an extra Clonazepam tablet at night; this provided me with about two hours of sleep a night. While affected by this insomnia, I was still experiencing suicidal feelings, and would be lying awake almost the whole night thinking of the pros and cons of various ways of killing myself.

After about 5 or 6 weeks, with the antipsychotics out of my system, the insomnia ended, and by this time, I had started taking an antidepressant, and my suicidal feelings subsided. By now I have come off all medication - including the antidepressant: Citalopram, since it was affecting my memory. If I feel the need, I take the very occasional half a tablet of Clonazepam.

I firmly believe, following my experience, that a proportion of psychiatric patients are being misdiagnosed based on the manifestations of the side effects of antipsychotic medication, and the expression of beliefs which have nothing to do with brain chemistry. I further believe that for all the lives that may be saved as a result of the administration of antipsychotics, there is a significant proportion of patients who commit suicide not because of their illness, but because of the side effects of medication which they may be unnecessarily or inappropriately prescribed. These numbers then get lumped together with the numbers who commit suicide as a result of their illness, and is used as further evidence that suicidal action or attempts are symptoms of psychotic illnesses.

If you are feeling suicidal, you will not believe that your life is precious. But hold on - because it is.

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deep sigh

this is a site which is promedication, pro treatment, and pro psychiatry

some people do have rare side effects on ALL types of meds

many of us here at CB are profoundly grateful for Seroquel or Abilify

Seroquel has definitely reduced my dark thoughts

please don't come here and scare people with your personal anecdotal experience

and there are plenty of other AP's than those two

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I don't believe a word of what the OP posted. First he begins by stating that he took a dose of Abilify that is below the minimum, but nowhere does he say what dose he was exactly taking. Surely it couldn't be hard to include that detail especially since he is so adamant otherwise. Then he starts taking about how he began to exhibit signs of SZ from taking Abilify. Please, APs don't give anyone SZ. Along about there, I stopped reading. This is just anti-psychiatry BS.

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OP also mentions doubling their clonazepam, *then* experiencing depression and so forth.

Additionally, it seems quite likely to me that one could develop symptoms of SZ because one *has* SZ, and not have found the right med(s) and/or dose yet, thereby experiencing breakthrough symptoms despite being on a med.

I am not (currently) on an AAP, but many here are helped greatly by them.

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deep sigh

this is a site which is promedication, pro treatment, and pro psychiatry

some people do have rare side effects on ALL types of meds

please don't come here and scare people with your personal anecdotal experience

and there are plenty of other AP's than those two

^THIS

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Also, after an episode of psychosis, there is a well know development of a "post-psychotic depression". How does the OP know it was the meds or rather a natural post psychotic depression?

Also - meds save my life every day, so don't push anti-psychiatry on me.

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There is a black box warning on Abilify about suicidal ideation like there are for antidepressants. Presumably, it is the same with Seroquel. So, yes, these meds can cause suicidal feelings. But the OP doesn't want to talk about antipsychotics acting like antidepressents. Instead, he posts just anti-psychiatry BS.

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To the OP:

This is a pro-medication site. We have a lot of members that have a tough enough time doing what their pdocs are telling them without reading crap like what you posted. As far a most of what you posted goes? I'd say you have an active imagination.

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(As a result of my experience, I would advise anyone to taper when coming off an antipsychotic - however small the dose. If, like me, you are taking half a tablet a day, you could then take it every other day for a while, and then every third day, etc.)

No. Please don't advise ANYONE about doses and tapering. You are not a medical professional.

While I don't doubt that you felt different on medication, you state that you changed your doses without consulting with your pdoc. This is irresponsible, dangerous, and likely to lead to more difficulties.

Please don't suggest that anyone change their medications. Especially here where people may already be struggling with medication compliance. For many people the meds substantially improve their length and quality of life in spite of unwanted effects.

I'm not an apologist for meds. Just requesting that you follow the agreements of this board.

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I've got a ten spot that says we probably won't ever hear from Angel again, regardless if we had responded or not.

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Seroquel saved my life and did not cause me to end it. Think carefully before making comments like this which may scare people away from getting the treatment they need

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I apologise for apparently upsetting some people. I am not anti-psychiatry per se - but I am anti many aspects of the way it is practised. My post was directed at people who may be prescribed anti-psychotics inappropriately, who may be mis-diagnosed, or who may be experiencing suicidal feelings as a side-effect - something which is much more common than is acknowledged. I am glad if you are benefiting, and I wish you all recovery, which I believe is possible. By the way, what I developed as a result of the medication, and no other cause, was a flat affect, and difficulty in caring for myself - this is what I refer to by symptoms associated with schizophrenia. These symptoms have gone now that the medication is out of my system.

I wish you all well.

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I've got a ten spot that says we probably won't ever hear from Angel again, regardless if we had responded or not.

Well, I lost that bet.

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A person with little clue plus a narrow-minded psychiatrist do not make a good combination. So angels got a point.

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The History of the Pharma-Cartel

1911, May 15

John D. Rockefeller

The supreme court of the U.S. finds John Rockefeller and his Trust guilty of corruption, illegal business contact and racketeering.

As a result of this decision, the entire Rockefeller Standard Oil-Trust, the world’s largest corporation of this time, was sentenced to be dismantled. But Rockefeller was already above the supreme court and did not care about this decision.

1913

In order to disperse public and political pressure on him and other robber-barons Rockefeller uses a trick called “philanthropy”: he uses the illegal gains from his robber-practices in the oil business to launch the Rockefeller Foundation.

This tax haven was used to strategically take over the health care sector in the U.S..

The Rockefeller Foundation was the front organization for a new global business venture of Rockefeller and his accomplices. This new venture was called the pharmaceutical investment business. Donation from the Rockefeller Foundation went only to medical schools and hospitals, which had become missionaries of patented pharmaceutical drugs, developed by a new breed of companies, manufacturers of patented, synthetic drugs.

This was also the time, when the first vitamins were discovered. It soon became clear, that these natural molecules had live-saving health benefits and were able to prevent many chronic health conditions. The first books appeared with abandoned research about the health benefits of vitamins.

These newly discovered molecules had only one disadvantage: they were non-patentable.

Thus, already in its first years of existence, the pharmaceutical investment business faced a mortal thread: vitamins and other micronutrients promoted as public health programs would prohibit the development of any sizable investment business based on patented drugs.

The elimination of this unwanted competition from natural micronutrients became a question of life and death for the pharmaceutical business.

1918

The Rockefeller Foundation uses the Spanish flu epidemic and the media they already controlled at this time, to start a witch hunt on all forms of medicine, which were not covered by their patents.

Within the next 15 years essentially all medical schools in the U.S., most hospitals and the American Medical Association all became pawns of the chess board of Rockefellers strategy to subjugate the entire health care sector under his monopoly of the pharmaceutical investment business.

Disguised as a “Mother Theresa”, the Rockefeller Foundation was also used to conquer foreign countries and entire continents for the pharmaceutical investment business - just as Rockefeller had done it a few decades ago with his petrochemical investment business.

1925

On the other side of the Atlantic, in Germany, the first chemical/pharmaceutical cartel is founded in order to compete with the quest for control of the global drug market by the Rockefeller trust.

Lead by German multinationals Bayer, BASF and Hoechst, the I.G. Farben cartel was founded with a total number of employees surpassing 80.000. The race for global control was on.

1929, November 29

The Rockefeller cartel (U.S.A.) and the I.G. Farben cartel (Germany) decided to divide the entire globe into interest spheres, the very same crime, Rockefeller had been sentenced for 18 years earlier, when his trust had divided up the U.S. into “interest zones”.

1932 / 33

The I.G. Farben cartel, equally insatiable, decides no longer to be bound by the 1929 constraints. They support an uprising German politician, who promises I.G. Farben to militarily conquer the world for them.

With millions of dollars in election campaign donations, this politician seized power in Germany, turned the German democracy into a dictatorship and kept his promise to launch his conquest war, a war that soon became known as WWII.

In each and every country Hitler’s wehrmacht invaded, the first act was to rob the chemical, petrochemical and pharmaceutical industries and assign them - free of charge - to the I.G. Farben empire.

1942 - 45

In order to cement its global leadership with patented drugs, the I.G. Farben cartel tests their patented pharmaceutical substances on concentration camp inmates in Auschwitz, Dachau and many other sites.

The fees for conducting these inhumane studies were transferred directly from the bank accounts of Bayer, Hoechst and BASF to the bank accounts of the SS, who operated the concentration camps.

1945

I.G. Farben’s plan to take control of the global oil and drug markets has failed. The U.S. and the other allied forces won WWII. While many U.S. and allied soldiers lost their lives, their reward was little compared to the rewards of others. The corporate shares of the losers, I.G. Farben, went to the Rockefeller trust (U.S.A.) and Rothschild/J.P. Morgan (U.K.).

1947

In the Nuremberg war crime tribunal 24 managers from Bayer, BASF, Hoechst and other executives of the I.G. Farben cartel were tried for crimes against humanity, including leading wars of aggression, slavery and mass murder.

In his final pleading U.S.-Chief Prosecutor Telford Taylor summarized the crimes committed by these corporate criminals with the following words:

“without I.G. Farben, the second World War would not have been possible”.

Amazingly the real culprits for the death of 60 Million people in World War II - the I.G. Farben executives - received the mildest verdicts. Even those executives directly responsible for the crimes in I.G. Auschwitz received a maximum of twelve years in jail.

Surprised? Not really.

Nelson Rockefeller

Already in 1944 Nelson Rockefeller had entered the executive branch of U.S. government.

He started off as Under-Secretary of State and ended few years later as Special Adviser of President Truman for Special Affairs. In other words at critical junctures of the 20th century, the Rockefeller interests took direct charge. They decided the post war shape of the world and the distribution of its wealth.

Under the influence of the state department, the verdicts in Nuremberg against the I.G. Farben managers can easily be explained.

In return for taking over the corporate shares of I.G. Farben and thereby global control of the oil and drug business, Nelson Rockefeller made sure that the real culprits of World War II were not hanged. In fact, they were needed.

1949

The Federal Republic of Germany was founded.

This was the first time in history, that the constitution and society of an industrialized nation could be planned and modeled as a fortress of the pharmaceutical investment business - an transatlantic outpost of the Rockefeller interests.

Within a few years the I.G. Farben managers sentenced in Nuremberg were released from jail and put back into their previous positions as stakeholders of the Rockefeller interests.

Fritz Ter Meer, sentenced to twelve years in jail for his crimes in Auschwitz, was back as chairman of the board of Germany’s largest pharmaceutical multinational, Bayer. Already in 1963!

1945 - 49

The role of the Rockefeller brothers was not limited to taking over the global monopoly of taking control of the global oil and drug business.

They also needed the political framework for this. Under their influence the United Nations were founded already in 1945 in San Francisco. To seize political control of the post war world, they used a trick to fight countries, three of them leading drug export nations, had all the say, while 200 other nations were rendered spectators.

Founded as organizations to allegedly serve the well being of the people of the world, the UN sub-organizations, like the World Health Organization (WHO) and World Trade Organization (WTO) soon turned out to be nothing else than the political arms of the global oil and drug interests.

1963

David Rockefeller

On behalf of the Rockefeller interests, the government of the pharmaceutical banana republic Germany spearheaded one of the most infamous efforts ever made within the United Nations.

Under the pretense of consumer protection, they launched a four decade long crusade to outlaw vitamin therapies and other natural, non-patentable health approaches for all member countries of the United Nations. The goal was to simply ban any and all competition for the multi-billion dollar business with patented drugs.

The plan was simple:

copy for the entire world what they had accomplished in America in the 1920s - a monopoly on health care for their investment business with patented drugs.

Since the market place of the pharmaceutical investment business are ongoing diseases, the drugs they developed were not intended to prevent, cure or eradicate diseases.

Thus, the goal of this global strategy was to monopolize health for billions of people with pills that nearly cover symptoms but hardly ever address the root cause of disease.

The deprivation of billions of people from having access to life saving information about the health benefits of natural health approaches and - at the same time establishing a monopoly with largely ineffective and frequently toxic patented drugs, caused disease and death in genocidal proportions.

This epidemic of unnecessary disability and death by the pharmaceutical business with disease is unparalleled in history.

Linus Pauling and other eminent scientists deserve the credit of having kept the door of knowledge about the health benefits of vitamins and other effective natural health approaches open. If it were not for them, we would be living in a health prison already today, guarded by the gatekeepers of pharmaceutical business with disease in medicine, politics and the media.

Linus Pauling also gets the credit of having identified the significance of my early research in vitamins and cardiovascular disease and having invited me to join him during his last years and to continue his life’s work.

1990 - 92

This years will go into history as the beginning of the end of pharmaceutical business with disease.

In a series of scientific publications - for some of them I invited Linus Pauling as co-author - I could identify micronutrient deficiency as the primary cause. These diseases included heart attacks, high blood pressure, diabetical circulatory problems, cancer and even diseases like immune deficiencies, including AIDS.

Like a Sherlock Holmes of science, I traced the real cause of these diseases and found that these causes had been deliberately nebulized or even hidden away from millions of people for one purpose only: to feed the insatiable greed of the pharmaceutical business with disease.

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Angel of Life is right. 

However, I would suggest stopping meds IMMEDIATELY if you are on low doses and feeling suicidal. It is the meds. 

DO NOT KILL YOURSELF. THAT IS A TERRIBLE AWFUL PLACE YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO. PRAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, WHO WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS AND ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY AND ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN.

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Angel of Life is right. 

However, I would suggest stopping meds IMMEDIATELY if you are on low doses and feeling suicidal. It is the meds. 

DO NOT KILL YOURSELF. THAT IS A TERRIBLE AWFUL PLACE YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO. PRAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, WHO WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS AND ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY AND ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN.

... you could try an anti-depressant with it; I did this once with Loxapine and Zoloft. It didn't work out, in the end, because of different side effects, but the Zoloft did take away the suicidal impulses of Loxapine.

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28 minutes ago, jesusandrainbows said:

Angel of Life is right. 

However, I would suggest stopping meds IMMEDIATELY if you are on low doses and feeling suicidal. It is the meds. 

DO NOT KILL YOURSELF. THAT IS A TERRIBLE AWFUL PLACE YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO. PRAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, WHO WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS AND ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY AND ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN.

... you could try an anti-depressant with it; I did this once with Loxapine and Zoloft. It didn't work out, in the end, because of different side effects, but the Zoloft did take away the suicidal impulses of Loxapine.

Or, conversely, you could try NOT stopping meds immediately without consulting your psychiatrist or doctor. On these boards we never recommend to our members that they discontinue a treatment regimen prescribed by a professional mental health provider.

By all means pray in the name of Jesus if you are so inclined, but remember that Jesus was a carpenter, not a psychiatrist. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

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On 6/20/2017 at 10:16 PM, Cerberus said:

Or, conversely, you could try NOT stopping meds immediately without consulting your psychiatrist or doctor. On these boards we never recommend to our members that they discontinue a treatment regimen prescribed by a professional mental health provider.

By all means pray in the name of Jesus if you are so inclined, but remember that Jesus was a carpenter, not a psychiatrist. The Lord helps those who help themselves.

Amen!

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The anti-psychiatry "movement" is fucking ridiculous. Those people literally endanger lives (by encouraging people to not take their meds). But, but, but, they'll say it's psychiatry that's endangering lives. Sorry, but that argument is just fucking stupid....and pathetic. They would gladly tell a schizophrenic that his/ her medications are "bad," but then wouldn't have to be there to deal with the repercussions. They would tell someone with bipolar disorder that psychiatry/ meds are "bad," but then wouldn't have to be there to pick up the pieces when mania lands someone in jail, the hospital, or dead.

Anti-psychiatry zealots are not welcomed here. Please go away and stay away. 

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