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B-12 Deficient - I THINK THIS IS IT! Need Input PLEASE


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Has anyone been treated with B-12 for their depression???

 

After months and months of fighting depression thinking I might be bi-polar I finally realized that I'm in top mental condition the 2 weeks following my b-12 shot and then I go to hell the next two weeks while waiting for my next shot. 

 

I want to try and convince my P-Doc to write me a script for a weekly b-12 shot.  insurance pays 100% for it.  (Otherwise I will go to a local clinic and pay 15 for it)

 

I thought the Effexor was the miracle drug because I was amazingly happy and anxiety/stress/ocd/adhd free for the 2 weeks following my initial dose... and then BAM back in hell.   Well, I just took another B-12 shot 2 days ago and I'm back on top of my game.  I checked my journals and it's been like that since August when I started doing the B-12 shots.  (I had a gastric bypass and malabsorb... my B-12 was 200 and from what I'm finding, those of us with mental issues should have a B-12 level at the 1000-2000 range)

 

Hopefully someone on this board is familiar with this?  I just want to know what the dosing is.  I want to show up Saturday to my P-Doc appointment ready to plead my case.   I want a weekly shot and not a monthly.  If this is the reason my mind is all wonky then praise be.  

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my daughter doesn't have a diagnosis, but she does suffer from mild depression and quite a bit of anxiety (my opinion, not a doc, she won't talk to them anymore about psych stuff because she hates the meds they keep giving her - she seems to react to SSRIs like i do and she hates benzos with a passion).  anyway, she SWEARS by her B12 and takes a decent dose daily.  she can tell if she misses one dose (and it's obvious in her attitude and behaviour).  placebo or not, it works very well for her, and she's tried every supplement possible.  so i tend to think there's something helpful about it. 

 

personally, i've tried it for depression and it did nothing.  but my flavour of depression isn't so mild.  apparently i need the big guns.

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The only thing a vitamin can cure is a vitamin deficiency.

 

A deficiency of any of the B complexes does not cause depression, unless it is a SEVERE deficiency. As in, a strict vegan diet for several years.

Edited by goldfish
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I take injectable B12 weekly and sublingual, 6,000 mcg twice a day. I have not found it to alleviate depression except that without the therapy I have decreased energy and staying power. Decreased physical energy always adds to my depression.

 

There is always the "problem" of taking too much of any supplement/vitamin and damn, those side effects can be disastrous. However, as with any other med, vitamin, or supplement, YMMV.

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I get regular B-12 injections and I missed two (oops) and I'm a lot more worn out.. Get tested for low iron, as well. I usually get diagnosed with that a couple times a year (iron anemia) and take supplements. Proper diet does play a factor in MI. B12 is found in many foods, but it depends on how well you absorb it. Injections are a sure way of getting it into your system. (My doctor injects it intramuscular)

 

I find a difference with the shots, its free for me, it doesn't hurt, and I feel better. If you physically feel better, you'll probably feel better mentally as well. Like I said, if I miss a shot or two, I don't feel as good. For me, its mostly physical. Anyone can have a deficiency, meat eater, vegan, whatnot. An injection is generally less of the b-12 into your system and more gets absorbed, I believe. If you take it sublingually or just a normal pill, you need to take more, more often. Again, YMMV, but for me, its free, it doesn't hurt, I don't go out of my way for it, and i feel better, so why not?

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I take injectable B12 weekly and sublingual, 6,000 mcg twice a day. I have not found it to alleviate depression except that without the therapy I have decreased energy and staying power. Decreased physical energy always adds to my depression.

 

There is always the "problem" of taking too much of any supplement/vitamin and damn, those side effects can be disastrous. However, as with any other med, vitamin, or supplement, YMMV.

That's totally me too....I take a strong b12 sublingual(liquid).  It's the only thing that's been able to boost my energy and more energy means more ability to fight off depression. The less often I take my B, the more tired I get, which makes the depression stronger and harder to fight off.

 

The vitamin itself doesn't do anything *about* the depression though...just gives me more strength to fight it. 

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Do you think you could get by with more of the sublingual, and no injection, or does it not work that way?

 

Not for me. One without the other and I plummet to the basement . The sublingual, according to my haemotologist, keeps blood levels, instigated by the injections, at a reasonable level.

 

There have been times over the last several years when I had injections every other day just to maintain a low norm blood level. I should add that I have a couple of chronic physical conditions that deplete both B12 and Vitamin D along with RBC, WBC, patelets, et al.

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There ia a syndrome caused by the deficiency of b vitamins called wemicke-Korsakoff syndrome. This has been linked to alcoholics drug addiction and MI. lamictal has been known to cause a drop in patients folic acid

I personally believe that I am better taking a B complex stress vitamin every day

B12 shots are common to those undergoing a calorie reduction or just diet Dr's in general give them for more energy

I have no idea if these b complex vitamins work or if they do not but I believe that they do so maybe it is placebo effect. If my body does not utilize these vitamins then they will be flushed out

I hope this helps

D

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I would also like to chime in about this. I know that because when I was very anemic in the past I had no energy at all. I'd lay in bed all day and all night. I'd be lucky if I could get out of bed to have dinner. Now I am still anemic but I am taking iron supplements per my dr's instructions. I am starting to feel like I have energy again! I know this helps the depression because for me, isolating and lying in bed all day did a number on my mood. Now I am even able to exercise some during the week!

 

I think having more energy from the b-shots is probably similar in that more energy may = less depression because you actually will feel like you have energy to get out of bed and do things.

 

I could be wrong but that has been my experience with energy and depression.

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I googled "vit B12 deficiency mental illness" and it comes up with a lot of links relating to B12 deficiency and MI.

 

Here are some:

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/303069-vitamin-b12-deficiency-mental-illness/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency#Psychological_symptoms_and_mental_disorders

 

scroll down to the

Psychological symptoms and mental disorders

 

At levels only slightly lower than normal, a range of symptoms such as fatigue, depression, and poor memory may be experienced.[8] However, these symptoms by themselves are too nonspecific to diagnose deficiency of the vitamin.

Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause symptoms of mania and psychosis, fatigue, memory impairment, irritability, depression and personality changes.[9][10][9][11][10][12] In infants symptoms include irritability, failure to thrive, apathy, anorexia, and developmental regression

 

There are a lot of other articles related to this.  I have a B12 deficiency and get monthly shots, but I hadn't associated a low level with MI until now.  Doesn't mean for me my MI is related to it, just is something to think about.

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My pdoc, my neuro, and my paindoc all requested that I take a B spectrum vitamin. Also, fish oil and a multi-vitamin. But they don't think it will actually improve my headaches/MI, they just want me to take it as general support. I have never noticed any difference if I miss it for a few days, or even weeks, personally.

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I have to make it clear, sorry I forget not everyone knows how this works, I had a gastric bypass.  The section of my intestines responsible for absorbing B-12 are GONE.  the food doesn't go down that channel any more so I don't absorb B-12 like a normal person.  I also rarely eat red meat.  I've been sticking to fruits and vegetables to maintain my weight. 

So with regards to B-12 I definitely have a known medical condition that hinders absorption and maintenance.

 

I did all that research and that's when I found that B-12 can be responsible for MI.   I can't mess around with Serrotonin any more.  I'm tired of the issues associated with it.  The next drug they want to try is remoran, but right now I want him to give it a 2 month trial with B-12 injections.   I just need to find information on dosage for him.

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Most literature says that a lot of MI drugs have reduced effectiveness after any kind of bariatric surgery. Could this be a factor?

 

 

ETA

Wait. That took a minute to sink in.

 

You need to find information on dosages FOR him, him being your pdoc? WHY?? He's your doctor, why are you doing his medical research on dosage for him?? He's your doctor and doesn't even know about dosages without your help?

 

You need a different pdoc, and I don't care if that's "medical advice" or not.

Edited by goldfish
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I get B-12 shots now too. It took almost 18 months before my levels of B-12 were depleted. Are you still taking the special vitamins for baritric surgery patients? I know that I was given sublingual B-12 as well as the chewable vitamins. The chewable vitamins have well over the RDA amount for every vitamin and mineral.

 

I haven't noticed the B-12 making a difference for me. I know my level had dropped quite a bit because both the oncologist and my GP caught the problem at about the same time and both ordered B-12 shots for me.

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Why is your Pdoc prescribing B12 rather than your surgeon or your GP: better yet a haemotologist who could do all the assays and fully understand them and exactly what does you should be taking at any given time?

 

 

I have to make it clear, sorry I forget not everyone knows how this works, I had a gastric bypass.

 

Ah, yes, well then, my response was both uniformed and worthless. However, I read Sylvan's response with great interest as I know zip about nutritional supplementation post bariatric surgery.

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Thought I'd add some more info about what I take wrt vitamins.  I take: http://bariatricfusion.com/supplementnutrition.php. The info is for 1/day. With gastric bypass you take 4/day. They also have sublingual B12.

 

When you have gastric bypass surgery a lot of things about your body change. Vitamins and protein become very important. With the smaller stomach size there is no possible way you can get all the vitamins you need solely through what you eat. Supplementing becomes mandatory. I have blood work done every three months. This way the doc can usually catch things before I notice any problem.

 

To the OP, do you have a GP that keeps track of all of this for you?  I rely on my GP to be the captain. She makes sure that all the specialists are on track and that I'm getting what I need. When it comes to the treatments, she lets the specialists do their thing and update her. This way, at least one doctor knows about everything that is going on and can monitor. 

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B12 is crucial for the synthesis of the catechelomines - dopamine and norepinephrine.  So beyond just giving 'energy', it can boost your neurotransmitters and give you more mental 'energy'  I know when I take a b12 shot I feel a lot more alert and sometimes a little more anxious (PTSD issues) that night.  I would rather take a smaller dose more frequently, but they either seem to come in the mondo doses or the completely insignificant.  You should try the sublingual though between shots and see whether that doesn't give you the same effect.  The ones that emphasize they are methylcobalamin can go directly to the brain without being metabolized first by the liver. 

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