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Snowden holed up in Moscow airport hotel


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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23138073

 

It seems like Edward can take a breath for now.  Hubby says the Russians will eventually make it know that he is not wanted.  Snowden did break the law but it is evident there will be no justice here.  The US will bundle him somewhere never to be seen again.  I am rooting for safe asylum - Iceland?- for this courageous and perhaps idealistic young man.

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I hope that Snowden will be ok. He is a great man who did the right thing. I already knew long ago that the government was spying on us all and people called me crazy. I am glad that Snowden exposed the corrupt government. :)

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Russia is currently playing the card that he's technically not in Russia, but I'm sure he could be arrested perfectly easily if Russian authorities changed their viewpoint.

 

Yes, he should get asylum.  

The chances of America putting its hands up and saying "yes, our spies were doing what everyone's spies are doing, but we've just had our cover blown" seems minimal.

Change the nations around a little and would American authorities be outraged or in favour of whistle-blowing?

If the latter, this is just a case of "... but not in my back yard."

 

But while not having anything like the full story, I don't understand why Snowden did not wait till in Iceland or Ecuador before going public.

 

Chris.

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But while not having anything like the full story, I don't understand why Snowden did not wait till in Iceland or Ecuador before going public.

 

Chris.

 

I don't know the full story either but my guess is going public was a bit complicated and maybe he thought Hong Kong would be the best place to be at first.

 

Snowden is still in the Moscow airport hotel I believe, after a erroneous siting on a Bolivian plane.   I wonder what will happen now. I forgot that Julian Assange has been in the London Embassy for two years.  I don't think he can go outside.  Edward will either end up hidden in a deep dark bunker in Virginia or living in someone's embassy.   The U.S. has revoked his passport so he is citizenless.

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I find these 'Room for Debate' pieces by the IHT (or NY Times as it is know in the USA) very interesting. They put together short articles by experts that are both in favour and against a certain position. On Snowden being a criminal or a so-called whistle-blower, check this out: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/06/11/in-nsa-leak-case-a-whistle-blower-or-a-criminal

 

They also have one on where he should go: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/06/25/where-should-a-fugitive-like-edward-snowden-hide -- I found this hilarious: "Havana? Too humid. Quito? Too high. Pyongyang? Pass".

Edited by Lemmiwinks
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"...after a erroneous siting on a Bolivian plane.   I wonder what will happen now."

I'm still trying to get my head around the implications of that.

It wasn't just "a Bolivian plane", it had the Bolivian president on board.

I'm attempting to imagine the outcry if Air Force One with President Obama aboard was denied airspace and forced to divert so it could be searched because of a suspicion that a wanted Bolivian criminal was also being transported...

 

BBC article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23158242

 

 

Edited by Emettman
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"...after a erroneous siting on a Bolivian plane.   I wonder what will happen now."

I'm still trying to get my head around the implications of that.

It wasn't just "a Bolivian plane", it had the Bolivian president on board.

I'm attempting to imagine the outcry if Air Force One with President Obama aboard was denied airspace and forced to divert so it could be searched because of a suspicion that a wanted Bolivian criminal was also being transported...

 

 

exactly. What a ridiculous assumption.  Even if Bolivia was going to offer Snowden asylum, which they weren't, I don't imagine the president would fly on the same plane as Edward.  

 

Maybe Iceland can give Snowden a visa which will allow him to fly there from Russia.  Can you go anywhere without a passport?

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Iceland has already said no.  He's got nowhere to go other than back to the US and stand trial. 

 

Frankly I think civil disobedience requires that you take your lumps to be valid.  MLK wrote "letter from Birmingham jail," not "Tweet from a Hong Kong Hilton."   It demeans the act if you remove the element of self-sacrifice.

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The U.S. has revoked his passport so he is citizenless.

He's not stateless as he claims, he's still a citizen of the U.S., and he can fly home anytime. If you were charged with any crime and considered a flight risk, the court would take your passport if they allowed you out on bail. The sequence of events is a bit out of whack, but in effect that's what has happened - he's been charged with a crime and he's out on bail.

What's surprising to me is that anyone is surprised by this. Besides the Patriot Act and FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), both of which give ridiculous amounts of power to the government to spy on us, just think about all the info you allow to be collected on you with your authorization.

Between Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc., they basically know everything about you, your physical location, and probably what you're doing at that moment. I'm not sure that the NSA worries me too much more than Mark Zuckerburg does. And when the next terrorist act occurs, everyone will be asking why the government wasn't able to prevent it.

Snowden seems incredibly naïve to me. Did he not realize that the U.K. gave Hong Kong back to China? If he's as smart as he claims to be, I'm surprised he didn't think things through a bit more first. It will be the ultimate irony if he ends up taking refuge in someplace like Ecuador, not exactly known for their free press, human rights, or light-handed government.

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I heard yesterday on the news that Snowden was accepted for asylum in Venezuela.     Another country not exactly known for its' progressive free press!

 

For some reason, I keep thinking about his girlfriend, with whom he shared a home in Hawaii.  I wonder if she'll fly over to Venezuela or if she's finished with him?

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I heard yesterday on the news that Snowden was accepted for asylum in Venezuela.     Another country not exactly known for its' progressive free press!

 

For some reason, I keep thinking about his girlfriend, with whom he shared a home in Hawaii.  I wonder if she'll fly over to Venezuela or if she's finished with him?

 

She's got competition.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/sexy_spy_anna_chapman_to_nsa_leaker_269duh15dXoveRJt9SdKyJ?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost

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"...after a erroneous siting on a Bolivian plane.   I wonder what will happen now."

I'm still trying to get my head around the implications of that.

It wasn't just "a Bolivian plane", it had the Bolivian president on board.

I'm attempting to imagine the outcry if Air Force One with President Obama aboard was denied airspace and forced to divert so it could be searched because of a suspicion that a wanted Bolivian criminal was also being transported...

 

BBC article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23158242

 

I know! What a shocking breach of diplomacy. And going into his plane to search? There's a time when that might have been considered an act of war. 

 

So let me get this straight: The area *inside* the airport, before Customs is "no man's" land (a la Snowden). But on the runway, let's just fuck the sovereignty of another country? He was not even "in" Austria technically when they searched the plane. What the fuck.

 

I understand why all of South America (dogwhistledogwhisle) is furious, too. I don't think most people around me understand the significance of what happened, or the level of insult.

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"...after a erroneous siting on a Bolivian plane.   I wonder what will happen now."

I'm still trying to get my head around the implications of that.

It wasn't just "a Bolivian plane", it had the Bolivian president on board.

I'm attempting to imagine the outcry if Air Force One with President Obama aboard was denied airspace and forced to divert so it could be searched because of a suspicion that a wanted Bolivian criminal was also being transported...

 

BBC article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23158242

 

I know! What a shocking breach of diplomacy. And going into his plane to search? There's a time when that might have been considered an act of war. 

 

So let me get this straight: The area *inside* the airport, before Customs is "no man's" land (a la Snowden). But on the runway, let's just fuck the sovereignty of another country? He was not even "in" Austria technically when they searched the plane. What the fuck.

 

I understand why all of South America (dogwhistledogwhisle) is furious, too. I don't think most people around me understand the significance of what happened, or the level of insult.

 

 

 

Apparently the plane was not searched.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/07/us-usa-security-snowden-austria-idUSBRE96605K20130707

Snowjob could have been on there.

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I understand why all of South America (dogwhistledogwhisle) is furious, too. I don't think most people around me understand the significance of what happened, or the level of insult.

 

 

That's why I described the hypothetical reciprocal situation: US public/media reaction to the US President plane being diverted for a search?   "Who do these people think they are?"  or words to that effect in less temperate language.

 

edit: a range of stories covering the time at Vienna, I'd guess at trying to save face or avoid adding heat...

"One airport officer did board the aircraft on Tuesday to find out why it had landed in Vienna reporting technical problems, but "there was no formal inspection", Austrian President Heinz Fischer told Kurier newspaper."

 

I saw another source which reported that those on board apart from the president had their passports checked, but the aircraft was not searched.

 

Chris.

Edited by Emettman
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What's surprising to me is that anyone is surprised by this. Besides the Patriot Act and FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), both of which give ridiculous amounts of power to the government to spy on us, just think about all the info you allow to be collected on you with your authorization.

Between Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc., they basically know everything about you, your physical location, and probably what you're doing at that moment. I'm not sure that the NSA worries me too much more than Mark Zuckerburg does. And when the next terrorist act occurs, everyone will be asking why the government wasn't able to prevent it.

Snowden seems incredibly naïve to me. Did he not realize that the U.K. gave Hong Kong back to China? If he's as smart as he claims to be, I'm surprised he didn't think things through a bit more first. It will be the ultimate irony if he ends up taking refuge in someplace like Ecuador, not exactly known for their free press, human rights, or light-handed government.

 

this is precisely where I've come to fall on this issue.

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I'm not a fan of the NSA but I'm not a fan of Snowjob either.

 

He's not in the "Nobody does it better" class, for certain.

 

No decent plan for getting out of a situation having decided to get into it

(Hang on, he was employed by...)

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