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Gay men are BPD and Straight men are ASPD with same exact symptoms and behavior


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Am I the only gay male having noticed over the years that psychiatrists and clinical psychologists have as a group - not each one individually - but overall as a group tend to diagnose more straight males with personality issues as ASPD and more gay males with personality issues as BPD?

 

There is still a disproportionate number of straight men labeled ASPD and gay men labeled BPD with both groups having and showing the same symptoms and behaviors and personality style.

 

Do you think sexual orientation be it heterosexual or homosexual influences diagnoses in the world of personality disorders?

 

I was once diagnosed with having BPD, it was years ago.  I laughed it off as I don't have a borderline personality and I knew it was only because the clinical psychologist was, how can I saw it nicely - outwardly not overly fond of my answer to being asked about if I had a girlfriend......

 

When I saw another clinical psychologist, he and he was a very straight, manly man, also chuckled at my being diagnosed as BPD and told me it's common for gay men to be labeled BPD and I was not.  I state for the record I have nothing but complete compassion and support for anyone with BPD and any mental illness and am not picking on those with BPD in the least.

 

I'd like to do a study with professional and experienced male actors, have one who is straight in real life and have one who is gay in real life with neither having any mental illness.  Have the straight male actor learn about BPD symptoms and play the role of a man with active BPD symptoms during a comprehensive psychiatric diagnostic interview and then have the gay male actor learn about BPD symptoms and play the role of a man with active BPD symptoms during a comprehensive psychiatric diagnostic interview each one going to the same psychiatrist or clinical psychologist and then several more in different areas each seeing the same shrink to see if my theory holds any truth.

 

Again I have nothing but genuine compassion, support and concern for those with BPD and all people with any mental illness.  I'm just sometimes disgusted at the very high number of gay men wrongfully labeled BPD and also of the very high number of straight men wrongfully labeled ASPD.  I really think there is a diagnostic pre-judging going on. 

Edited by Brian803
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Yes I do but not online. I have many books on many mental illnesses from schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, PTSD, personality disorders and more.  When I was younger and very sick with mental illness we didn't have the internet at all.  So I went to the library and bookstores and bought books.

 

If you have access to a good public library or university library check out Imbroglio: Rising to the Challenges of Borderline Personality Disorder by Janice M. Cauwels Ph.D.  Ms. Cauwels quotes several studies supporting the 'gay bpd, straight aspd male'.   Also, Working with Traits by Joel Paris M.D. in which he examines several large scale studies at major university hospitals having inpatient psych units and concludes there is a diagnostic bias. He also in his book confesses that as a young right out of residency psychiatrist years ago he also did the 'knee jerk' diagnoses of BPD in most gay men.

 

Also there are many books, mostly memoirs, of gay men and many write of being misdiagnosed as BPD when seeking help for depression, anxiety and other symptoms of mental illness and all state the first dx given was BPD and after reading the DSM laughed at the dx not being them at all  and found another shrink.  A good one to read for this is Becoming a Man: Half a Life Story by Paul Monette. 

 

I'm also asking more of any personal experiences and/or thoughts of those having been in the trenches for years, knowing many people with many different mental illnesses and if they have a take on my question.  Not really looking for studies or such.  Just thoughts based on experience and/or knowing people over years.

Edited by Brian803
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Um... Well...

 

 

 

There is still a disproportionate number of straight men labeled ASPD and gay men labeled BPD with both groups having and showing the same symptoms and behaviors and personality style.

Could you please cite something specific to back this up? Like even better if you have one of them old fashioned books on your book shelf and can give a citation to a specific page and or passage.

 

It's weird because ASPD and BPD really don't share traits. If people are being misdiagnosed, the practitioner CLEARLY needs more training.

 

I don't NOT believe there is a diagnostic bias that gay men will tend to be labeled BPD more often than they actually have BPD... however the way you are trying to talk about it is confusing to me because you are putting gay/straight on one continuum and saying gay = BPD and straight = ASPD. 

 

I've actually heard many practitioners talk about how straight men with BPD "give them the willies" or otherwise somehow creep them out. I don't personally understand that, but I imagine it has something to do with stereotyped gender roles and how invested the practitioner is in those stereotyped gender roles.

 

It is pretty rare to find someone who actually has diagnosed ASPD because they've either evaded detection or are running a major corporation. ;)

Edited by Wooster
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There is a cultural continuum for some psychiatric diagnosticians based on their preconceived ideas of what behaviors are 'manly' and what diagnosis are 'manly'.  BPD still, I think, has somewhat of a more female connotation to it and ASPD still, I think, somewhat of a more male connotation to it.  I have never heard of a man, straight or gay, being diagnosed HPD for example.  The mere word 'histrionic' is from the latin for womb, uterus.  A male histrionic is a borderline! 

 

The DSM is and always has been a mess in my opinion in regards to gender, culture and even race.  But I know there must be an official diagnoses for third party reimbursement.

 

My question is of personal thoughts based on personal experience by gay men with mental illness and I'm not looking for stats and studies rather personal opinions.  I don't place much value on a book - the DSM - which has very obvious built in cultural, gender, age, race and age bias.  So I don't like to get into stats and studies too much as most are based very heavily on DSM guidelines.

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I did come up with it on my own years ago!  And then soon found out other gay men also came up with it themselves too! 

 

I'll quote my initial post

'I was once diagnosed with having BPD, it was years ago.  I laughed it off as I don't have a borderline personality and I knew it was only because the clinical psychologist was, how can I saw it nicely - outwardly not overly fond of my answer to being asked about if I had a girlfriend......

 

When I saw another clinical psychologist, he and he was a very straight, manly man, also chuckled at my being diagnosed as BPD and told me it's common for gay men to be labeled BPD and I was not.'

 

I'm also done with this thread as I'm asking this of the personal experiences and opinions of gay men with mental illness to include those having and not having BPD and those having been misdiagnosed BPD due to the cultural ignorance of gay men in the mental health care system.  It's being read into way too much.  If you have experienced this diagnostic discrimination you won't need supporting stats or studies to understand!

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I have not personally experienced this because I'm not a gay man, but I DO understand it.

 

 

If you have experienced this diagnostic discrimination you won't need supporting stats or studies to understand!

 

I was nearly misdiagnosed with BPD as well, due to overlap with PTSD features and coping strategies.

 

 

And it's legit here to ask not just for personal experiences, but also academic resources if they exist.

 

I'm sorry that you are not getting what you want from this thread.

 

However the way you have approached the topic leads those of us with curious minds to seek more information... which is why we are asking for citations so we can read more.

Edited by Wooster
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I'm a gay man and I was once diagnosed with BPD. I have no way of knowing whether it was because I was gay that I was diagnosed with it, really. I suspect not. I wasn't displaying any of the BPD symptoms that kind of overlap with ASPD. I'm not sure if I still have BPD, or if I ever had it. Looking at the diagnostic criteria my thoughts are that I have too few of those things for a diagnosis, but enough that I could have some sub-clinical form or "traits" of BPD.

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I've heard this before several times from both gay men diagnosed with BPD and others, but I've never seen a study or article or book on it, so if you can, OP, please link us to more specific sources or studies. I think it's interesting and I'd like to read more.

Edited by radicalfeminist
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I'm not seeing the Dx of BPD running rampant among gay men and that is based on my experience of being a gay man. I don't see BPD and ASPD sharing much to the degree that it is a either/or situation. Depression and stress are common among minorities of any kind, especially those who experience oppression and discrimination.

Edited by notfred
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I have no sources nor have I heard of this particular variation before.

 

I could see some situations leading to it.  My direct personal experience is that BPD in some places can tend to be rather readily diagnosed on the barest of possible symptoms, in my last IP experience near half the ward was slapped with a BPD label usually based on "do you or have you ever cut yourself" and other similar singular points.  However it was a label slapped onto some guys as well.

 

I don't have a link to sources on this one but I think I recall, like with major depression for example, that the statistical majority of people who have a diagnosis of BPD are women.  This could, in theory, lead to the association of BPD with stereotypical feminine/female behaviours.  Gay men being already linked with stereotypical feminine/female behaviours, I could see BPD being more readily linked to a man known to not be straight rather than a man who is known to be straight -- though this might also apply in BPD being more readily linked to a straight man if he had more effeminate mannerisms and/or interests, etc.

 

I do know some guys who have honest BPD diagnoses, and none of them are straight (bisexual,) but as far as I know they are not open about their sexuality with most people including their diagnosing and/or treating docs.

 

I think notfred makes a good point here:

 

 

Depression and stress are common among minorities of any kind, especially those who experience oppression and discrimination.

 

I haven't personally seen BPD diagnoses rampant among gay men communities either, and I say this as a queer/pansexual trans guy who tends to associate more with queer & gay dudes than anyone else.  But if one were to take my experience/thoughts about the overdiagnosis of BPD in some areas (like in my last IP experience) and the above quote my notfred, I could see those perhaps leading to a higher diagnosis rate of BPD in gay men.  All as a crazy speculated random theory, of course.

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I'm a gay man with a diagnosis of BPD, and I do believe it's legitimate. Whether my sexuality factored into the diagnosis or not, I'm not sure. My mental health team was certainly aware of my sexuality from the beginning, so it's possible. I've met other gay guys with the diagnosis while IP and a few straight guys with it as well. I can definitely see your point, though.

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