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Mild Negativism like that seen in catatonic stupors? (but mild?)


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Hi,

So recently, as smart as I am (not particularly smart obviously) I noticed that I'm extremely reluctant to do ANYTHING useful. It's not laziness, it's not demotivation. It's extreme aversion against anything that I believe is good for me (like goig to college, like learning the guitar. like going out, getting to know new people.) the more my head sais something i could do is good for me, the bigger the aversion (goes with stuff people tell me to do). I read a book (somehow i found it on the web. I didnt even try to download it but it was just there) listed the different types of Avoidant Personalities and i dont fit any of them.
Then I read about Negativism schizophrenics with catatonia and babies have and they basically do the opposite of what they are told to do. I read somewhere else that the rebelious behaviour of teenagers is somewhat similar. 
So, my question is, is it possible to have a mild form of the Negativism seen in Catatonic Stupor and always do the opposite of what you wanna do? or not to do what you/ others want you to do ACTIVELY and WILLFULLY? I bet what i have is NOT negative symptoms. I refuse to do stuff Actively, and with very strong will. Whenever I want to do something i get this strong feeling to do the opposit! only if i could reverse the direction of this "will".
So basically is it possible to have (mild form of catatonic) negativism? and what could be the reason? or do I just have avoidant personality disorder unrelated to the schizophrenia?

Some copy pasta: 

 

Besides this outer negativism there is also an inner, which most 

frequently affects the will. The patient can not do exactly what 
he wishes to do. In the stage between thought and expression an 
inhibition, a contrary impulse, or a cross impulse can make the 
action impossible.
Hoche 3 defines negativism as "the systematic resistance 
against external influencing of the will and also against impulses 
arising from within."

cheers 

bear.

Edited by Überpolarbear
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You should definitely ask a doctor about this instead of relying on what I tell you, but what you're describing doesn't mesh with my mental image of what negativism is. I'm fairly certain that you would also be experiencing other catatonic symptoms if you were experiencing negativism. Do you have periods of immobility or other catatonic symptoms? Have you ever had a doctor tell you that you had been in midst of a catatonic stupor?

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When people have an extreme aversion to doing what's good for them, I often believe it's self-sabotage. For example, not studying because you're afraid if you DO study, and subsequently don't do well on the test, then you will have a bruised ego. No one wants a bruised ego. 

 

Just my 2 cents, talking out my ass, etc. I have seen this kind of behaviour in people close to me. 

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catatonic negetavism has to do with physical movement.

 

Also you cant self diagnose yourself, what you are describing sounds like amotivation.

 

You can understand its value, know its good for you, assume yourself competent but just not care to do it.

 

Here is a question, if someone told you to do something you already do such as eat when you are hungry, would you not eat?

Edited by ScrambleHead
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catatonic negetavism has to do with physical movement.

 

Also you cant self diagnose yourself, what you are describing sounds like amotivation.

.

You can understand its value, know its good for you, assume yourself competent but just not care to do it.

 

Here is a question, if someone told you to do something you already do such as eat when you are hungry, would you not eat?

You are right about movement. I thought about it myself after reading a bit more into it.

your question about eating, I haven't been in that situation yet. but i dont think i would do so. on the other hand i cant get my feet to go out of the house or my hands to touch my guitar, doesn't that count?

alos, if i'm talking with someone and someone tells me an idea i was about to say myself i will becoume very defiant and try to despute the idea. for whatever reason. isn't that similar somehow??!

p.s.:i was once very motionless. i was sitting in a couch and no matter what i did i couldnt stand up. as i was disconnected from my body and the world. went for 10 minutes, and never happend again. it actually felt nice. i think K-holing is the same thing. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, i'm new to the board but have been lurking a while and what you say is really interesting.

 

If only psychiatry would start listening more, it'd make more progress for sure. being able to describe your position so lucidly is a real skill :-)

My son has asperger's syndrome with periodic catatonia and I've been doing a lot of research around this area and i think you have hit the nail on the head with what you're describing... you could call it a sort of "catatonia ultra lite" in that just some circuits are affected. He has this sort of thing when not in full episode.

Some science:

Apparently our GABA system starts off in reverse for the first few months of life i.e it is not inhibitory but rather the opposite and this is fundamental to neuronal circuitry wiring up. I've been finding out bits and pieces about this, starting with trying to work out the how of my daughter's juvenile myoclonic epilepsy with photosensitive seizures (under control after a few years of Modified atkins/sub-ketogenic diet). The eyes and their circuitry rely on a sort of synchronised firing, similar to seizure activity, to develop and the same sort of thing applies with the rest of the brain. The theory is that some GABAergic neurons either get stuck with this mechanism, or regress to it.

Here's a really interesting piece of research/hypothesis that describes the mechanisms and points to a possible immaturity in certain brain regions resulting in this limited catatonic effect (partly my extrapolation there...i also think that some delusions are narrative responses to exactly this type of sensation: i want to but i can't, or conversely i don't want to but I must...so who's controlling me?!!).

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1783434/#!po=59.0909

This guy is a neurologist and it's really interesting what he has to say here, re GABA and chloride channels.

 

There is a long history of diuretics helping in epilepsy (bromide worked this way, causing chloride loss and it's still used in dogs) and bipolar (acetazolamide) and more recently Bumetanide, another diuretic/saluretic in autism (Lemmonnier is the researcher for this, if you look it up). I see all these phenomena (epilepsy, bipolar, autism) as being different purely on a time scale, the same mechanism with or without relief, acute or more chronic.

 

 

I also have mild mood disorder , have had convulsions...avoided more by drinking constantly-7 years- til I got pregnant when progesterone took over the inhibitory job...(NOT a recommendation to anyone, btw, just the way my own shit panned out); I can get by with a lot of down time to make up for all the effort passing for normal, but would rather be a horse ^_^ so spectrum.

 

I also have to trick myself in to doing things, sometimes a massive list of stuff results in me doing one or two less resistence-inducing things, or using a kind of bait-and -switch and the element of surprise helps, basically doing it, while thinking about something else. It's the lack of inhibition thats the problem, it raises anxiety automatically.

 

I also think it relates to what's a normal human tendency: procrastination and performance anxiety, which is where the edge of neurotypical is, at least in this area (see comment re. self-sabotage also).

At root all actions provoke a reaction. in order to perform any action our motor areas have to inhibit all other possible associated but not-needed movements/actions and there is the problem . Hence the other side of the coin: automatisms. Like when you're thinking about something else and you put the milk in the kettle for e.g :rolleyes:

 

sorry for how long this is :blush: ,

 

 

 

 

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I've just reread the guidance for using the forum so,

just to make clear, what I posted is about my own experience of this negativism (it even affects eating and going to the loo in my case :o ), researching  led me to think about it in relation to other things that affect my family, no man/woman/horse is an island after all.

Precisely the milder forms of things are what allow a window of understanding of the more acute/serious episodes.

sorry if it's inappropriate

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