Woody Allen

[water]

Discovering that art I love was created by an artist who committed despicable and unforgivable acts has always been confusing.  Last night my hubby and I discussed the latest revelation about Woody Allen.  His daughter wrote a letter to The New York Times.

 

There is a long sordid public history to this story and I have followed the details from the beginning.  Mr. Allen is not the only artist I admire who has done disgusting things.  And I know there must be many many more I know nothing about. I have read upsetting stories about Degas and his family that are hard to ignore while I gaze at his ballet dancers.  But movies are very different from paintings.

 

Do you love Woody Allen's movies and can you still love them the same way knowing about these accusations?

 

[olga]

I do love Woody Allen movies, but he lost me the day he took up with Soon Yi Previn.  Granted, he never married Mia Farrow, but they had a long-term relationship and adopted children together and had a biological child together.  So he essentially took up with his step-daughter when she was 19 and he was well into his 50s.  I think that his abuse of his daughter was hideous.

 

His son with Mia Farrow, who goes by the name of Ronan, tweeted on Father's Day "Happy Father's Day, or as we call it, Brother-in-law day."

 

Woody is sick, sad to say.  I haven't seen one of his movies in years.

 

olga

[Indigo 'n dye]

I am jaded: the sensationalism of the lives of "stars" does not influence my enjoyment, or lack thereof, of their craft.

 

It is, however, always interesting when stars who  overdose on drugs, killing themselves, are mourned as heroes and/or victims...that says a great deal about society, me thinks.

[vanderk]

I wish I could say I'm of two minds, but one mind is tough enough.  I've not seen any of his movies since "Hannah And Her Sisters".  But I used to be a big fan of his writings back in the day.  I'm mostly glad that I have no celebrity ststus.  Everybody is capable of anything, I suppose.  I'll try to generate an opinion at somw point....

[water]

I am jaded: the sensationalism of the lives of "stars" does not influence my enjoyment, or lack thereof, of their craft.

 

It is, however, always interesting when stars who  overdose on drugs, killing themselves, are mourned as heroes and/or victims...that says a great deal about society, me thinks.

 

It does say something about life as we know it now.  Philip Seymour HOffman, who just passed away, was not anymore a victim than my friends who passed away from HIV.  Though I do believe my friends were heroes, fighting a war that no one recognized. 

 

edit: I think you are a hero too Indigo.  Creating a fulfilling life for yourself in the midst of many different types of battles.

Edited February 2, 2014 by water

[water]

I'm mostly glad that I have no celebrity ststus.  Everybody is capable of anything, I suppose. 

 

I value my privacy so much.  If I ever won a huge lottery, which is as unlikely as becoming famous any other way, a lawyer would collect the money in anonymity.

 

 

I do love Woody Allen movies, but he lost me the day he took up with Soon Yi Previn.

 

This marriage was unbelievable to me until the day I watched Wild Man Blues.  That was sixteen years ago. I wonder how I would feel about that movie now.

[Indigo 'n dye]

Did not a platoon of independent mental heath specialists and physicians rule that here was no sign of molestation when the accusations were first leveled?

 

It seems that Hoffman is being deified and Allen demonized both for being "stars".

[water]

Did not a platoon of independent mental heath specialists and physicians rule that here was no sign of molestation when the accusations were first leveled?

 

It seems that Hoffman is being deified and Allen demonized both for being "stars".

 

I have no idea what people are saying about Hoffman. I can't read any of it.  I heard it on the news in the kitchen and then shut off the radio.

 

Allen was demonized by the press at the time, I believe. And once again, I have no idea what people are saying about Allen except for us.

 

edit: Are you saying that because Hoffman possibly od'd that makes him a victim/hero and because Allen was a child molester that makes him a monster and that something is wrong with that statement?  I do see how child abusers can be victims of their past just like drug abusers, and deciding to abuse a child is a fck'ed up thing as well as choosing to shoot yourself with heroin.  I cannot compare the two beyond that.

Edited February 2, 2014 by water

[Indigo 'n dye]

All I know about either the Hoffman or Allen situations is what I am reading here on CB. My expressed opinions are formulated from comments herein. 

 

Allen is despicable: Hoffman is wonderful. Yet, in truth, they both obviously are/have been troubled.

[water]

All I know about either the Hoffman or Allen situations is what I am reading here on CB. My expressed opinions are formulated from comments herein. 

 

Allen is despicable: Hoffman is wonderful. Yet, in truth, they both obviously are/have been troubled.

 

absolutely.

 

edit again: this is why I get confused about the art question.  I am confused about how I feel about my father.  same reason. how do I deal with people who have done unforgivable acts yet remain in my life for some reason or another and occasionally do the right thing.

Edited February 2, 2014 by water

[Indigo 'n dye]

 

All I know about either the Hoffman or Allen situations is what I am reading here on CB. My expressed opinions are formulated from comments herein. 

 

Allen is despicable: Hoffman is wonderful. Yet, in truth, they both obviously are/have been troubled.

 

absolutely.

 

 So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?

 

I admit to spending little time lamenting the latest star scandal or sensation.  I have so many real life concerns that what takes place with celebrities does no register on my radar.

[water]

 

 

All I know about either the Hoffman or Allen situations is what I am reading here on CB. My expressed opinions are formulated from comments herein. 

 

Allen is despicable: Hoffman is wonderful. Yet, in truth, they both obviously are/have been troubled.

 

absolutely.

 

 So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?

 

 

 

I don't know. I don't even know these people.  For all I know Philip beat his wife and kids and Woody's daughter is lying.  But one of the things i do to relax is read gossip blogs, just like my hubby plays freecycle.  There are some people I cannot STAND to read about and never will.  I am picky. 

 

However I do form my opinions and based on Woody's movies and based on what I have read about Philip, my guess is that Seymour Hoffman was a lovely dad and it is a tragedy for his family and for his fans.

 

Woody Allen is much more troubling figure for me. Because of my father. (see above edit)

 

I am fascinated by people.  I would rather read about a local serial killer however than the atrocities happening right now in Syria.  I do admit a rather large amount of embarrassment about my celebrity fascination but I have come to terms with my little secret. 

[Hadeharia]

So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?

 

I'm baffled by your posts. Are you insinuating that Dylan Farrow is lying about being sexually abused? Why would someone dying from an overdose make them any less wonderful than if they died of natural causes if they were a good person in the first place?

[kateislate]

 So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?.

People who overdose are victims. It's tragic. Chemical dependence is an illness just as real as any mental illness.

Woody Allen, on the other hand, is accused of doing something absolutely despicable to a child. I don't see anything wrong with the press portraying it that way. And I find it just weird that Dylan Allen's being "troubled" somehow is being used to imply she's not credible. On here of all places.

[water]

 

 So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?.

People who overdose are victims. It's tragic. Chemical dependence is an illness just as real as any mental illness.

Woody Allen, on the other hand, is accused of doing something absolutely despicable to a child. I don't see anything wrong with the press portraying it that way. And I find it just weird that Dylan Allen's being "troubled" somehow is being used to imply she's not credible. On here of all places.

 

 

 

So then is it reasonable to judge one as wonderful even though he died from an overdose and the other as despicable based on the statements of what seems to be a troubled young woman?

 

I'm baffled by your posts. Are you insinuating that Dylan Farrow is lying about being sexually abused? Why would someone dying from an overdose make them any less wonderful than if they died of natural causes if they were a good person in the first place?

 

 

 

Kate and Hadharia:

 

can we stick to my question?  I really don't want the thread to get derailed.

 

How do YOU feel about Woody.  Do you like his movies and do you still like them?  Did you ever like them?

[CeremonyNewOrder]

Woody Allen hasn't been proven of molestation in a court of law. Thus, I'm still skeptical about the accusations.  

[water]

Woody Allen hasn't been proven of molestation in a court of law. Thus, I'm still skeptical about the accusations.  

 

It is incomprehensible to me that a young woman would write a letter describing something so personal and so reprehensible about one of the most famous movie directors in history.

 

I think her cup runneth over after hearing Cate Blanchett at the Golden Globes.

[jt07]

Honestly, I never liked any of Wood Allen's movies, and it has nothing to do with Woody Allen. They just aren't my cup of tea.

[water]

Honestly, I never liked any of Wood Allen's movies, and it has nothing to do with Woody Allen. They just aren't my cup of tea.

 

Woody Allen IS his movies.  He is practically in all of them and if he isn't, someone is playing him. :-}

[kateislate]

I've known people who've made those accusations who later recanted. So I'm always skeptical. But in this case, given what happened with the other daughter, considerably less so.

Yes, accusations like this ruin the art for me. It depends a little on the type of art. But in this case, knowing that the way Woody Allen presents himself is very different from the reality, which is much darker, make it a little hard to laugh at the jokes.

[Hadeharia]

How do YOU feel about Woody.  Do you like his movies and do you still like them?  Did you ever like them?

 

I like some of his movies but I find him deplorable as a person. As someone who's also been accused of being "brainwashed" and lying about my abuse because the perpetrator was someone in a position of power, I'm becoming distressed by reading some of the responses in this thread. I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I know that I can't say with complete certainty that Dylan Farrow is telling the truth, but I honestly can't think of any conceivable reason why she would lie about this.

[water]

 

How do YOU feel about Woody.  Do you like his movies and do you still like them?  Did you ever like them?

 

I like some of his movies but I find him deplorable as a person. As someone who's also been accused of being "brainwashed" and lying about my abuse because the perpetrator was someone in a position of power, I'm becoming distressed by reading some of the responses in this thread. I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I know that I can't say with complete certainty that Dylan Farrow is telling the truth, but I honestly can't think of any conceivable reason why she would lie about this.

 

 

I can't imagine anyone making up a lie like that in public.

 

I am sorry for your abuse. sounds like a good idea to blow the thread. 

[water]

I've known people who've made those accusations who later recanted. So I'm always skeptical. But in this case, given what happened with the other daughter, considerably less so.

Yes, accusations like this ruin the art for me. It depends a little on the type of art. But in this case, knowing that the way Woody Allen presents himself is very different from the reality, which is much darker, make it a little hard to laugh at the jokes.

 

His type of humour is creepy at it's best.

 

Years ago when all of this became public my stomach would lurch thinking about him. Everything I laughed at, everything I loved, suddenly turned dark. 

 

edit: just hit me that this was exactly what happened with my family. an awful family secret revealed which changed everything.

Edited February 2, 2014 by water

[fya13]

I believe her. I was not believed when I told a trusted adult I had been abused, so my default is to believe others who come forward about abuse they have suffered. Ive never really been a fan of his movies, and I think him marrying his adopted daughter was super creepy. 

[The Emperor]

If you can't separate the person from the art, you should find both disgusting.

 

If you CAN separate the person from the art, then I guess it shouldn't matter?

Sorry, was trying to consider some artist I admired had done something so terrible. I, personally, cannot separate a person who commits heinous acts from any other aspect of their lives, so then the art would be ruined for me, I believe.

 

I wouldn't be able to support or admire an individual who did something like that. No. Not after hearing that.

 

But I've not been in this position so it is difficult to say with certainty. Again, just hypothetically putting myself in that situation is uncomfortable, but I think I would then turn my back on someone I admired because I PERSONALLY could not separate their art from their personality. It's part of them. And if they are a horrible person, this all becomes rather ugly. Any of it.

 

For SOME kind of reference, I just looked up Adolph Hitlers' paintings. Can I objectively enjoy them at this point? No. He did a far better job than I ever would. Would I hang my shitty drawing on my own wall before one of his? Yeah, I'd hang 10 million embarrassing, poorly rendered drawings of my own before putting one of his on my wall. Can I respect Hitler as an artist, knowing his paintings are far better than most people I know can produce? No. I couldn't respect him at a very basic level. I can't get past that. I could say his paintings were good, sure. Would I be a fan? NOPE. 

 

Maybe a poor analogy. I don't know. That was the only thing I could think of to do for this. I'm not a Woody Allen fan.

[hagar]

I think he is gross and creepy. Never seen his films and I have no desire to, ever.

 

I can't separate someone's art from who they are or what they do. Did Anita Bryant have a nice voice? Yes. Will I ever listen to such a heinous person perform and be able to enjoy it? Hell no. Just the first example that came to mind.

[neptunesky]

I had no idea of the allegations against him until i read this thread, i wasn't a massive fan of his movies anyways,

Toy Story is the only thing i have seen of his.

 

And yes it does change my opinion of him, although i have to be careful because no legal case has been brought

against him and won. But i don't think Dylan is lieing.

 

The son Ronan he had with Mia Farrow, is suspected as actually being Frank Sinatra's son.

[water]

I had no idea of the allegations against him until i read this thread, i wasn't a massive fan of his movies anyways,

Toy Story is the only thing i have seen of his.

 

 

Toy Story?

 

You must mean that ants movie he did.

[neptunesky]

^^ sorry i was getting him confused with TIM ALLEN. They have the same last name.

Edited February 3, 2014 by neptunesky

[water]

My mother used to tell me that it was okay to love the sinner but hate the sin. IMO, this is one of those times. 

 

Personally, I've never liked any of his films. Then again, I've never given them a fair chance. I get about 10 minutes into them and I'm up looking for something else to do.

hahaha.

 

He is definitely one of those artists you either love or hate.

[tamagotchi]

Wasn't this story already public before?  I remember this being in the news a long time ago?

 

Of course it's horrible-- but I have to say that it doesn't make any difference how I view his movies, I like some, and don't like others.  I don't have any trouble separating my opinion of his movies from my opinion of his private life.  Maybe one reason for that is that I have a blanket assumption that there are lots of public figures who do bad things that I don't know about (yet).  And in general I assume that their private lives may be extremely different from what I may imagine from their works.

[confused]

I haven't seen many of his movies.  I have seen "Everything you wanted to know about sex", "sleeper" and "Annie Hall".  I remember liking them at the time.

 

I don't know what to believe about the allegations. I remember Mia Farrow accused him of abusing Dylan around the same time the story about Woody and Soon Yi was public.  My gut tells me Dylan is probably telling the truth and there is no way i will know for sure because he isn't going to admit it and it happened so long ago.

 

I am not a big fan of Woody as a person.  I haven't been boycotting his films, I just rarely see movies and usually there is something else I would rather see. 

 

Maybe if it was someone else it would be easier to separate the art from the artist but he is so much a part of his movies.  I don't know if I could still enjoy them knowing he has been accused of child sexual abuse. I don't think so. It is a good question. 

 

 

[Indigo 'n dye]

My keyboard is being strange, sorry for this atrocious edit/quote...

 

 

 

 

Are you saying that because Hoffman possibly od'd that makes him a victim/hero and because Allen was a child molester that makes him a monster and that something is wrong with that statement?  I do see how child abusers can be victims of their past just like drug abusers, and deciding to abuse a child is a fck'ed up thing as well as choosing to shoot yourself with heroin.  I cannot compare the two beyond that.

 

Not at all. I am saying that when public figures are in the news, good, bad, indifferent, we rush  to judgment and use some prejudicial terminology: wonder on one side, despicable on the other.

 

As you pointed out, no one knows here knows. Yet we rush to judge and make those judgments public.

 

Simply an observation and an opinion.

[Wooster]

 

although i have to be careful because no legal case has been brought against him and won

 

This is why media have to say "allegedly"... because nothing has been proven. If they don't use the word "allegedly" they can be sued for libel.

 

Unfortunately, the word "allegedly" is also incredibly dismissive of the experience of the person who was hurt. There are many, many, many cases that never get reported, never get heard by a judge or jury, and never result in a conviction.

[Indigo 'n dye]

Getting ready to watch Match Point and have Vicky Christina Bacelona ready for tomorrow night. Additionally, I am looking forward to Blue Jasmine.

 

All these movies, in spite of the allegations...and the timing of the renewed allegation.

[water]

Getting ready to watch Match Point and have Vicky Christina Bacelona ready for tomorrow night. Additionally, I am looking forward to Blue Jasmine.

 

All these movies, in spite of the allegations...and the timing of the renewed allegation.

 

I loved Match Point.  Great thriller, very tightly edited.

Haven't seen Blue Jasmine.

It was hard not to like Vicky Christina because it had one of my all time favorite actresses - Penelope Cruz.  And it was a good story.  And later, Penelope and Javier fell in love.  

[Wooster]

I have a hard time separating Woody Allen from someone I used to date who was really into Woody Allen.

 

Not a big fan.

 

I've seen a couple of movies... I think Murder Mystery in Manhattan was one of them, with Carrie Fisher. There's a line in it that's something like, "There's nothing wrong with you that prozac and a polo mallet can't fix."

[water]

I have a hard time separating Woody Allen from someone I used to date who was really into Woody Allen.

 

Not a big fan.

 

I've seen a couple of movies... I think Murder Mystery in Manhattan was one of them, with Carrie Fisher. There's a line in it that's something like, "There's nothing wrong with you that prozac and a polo mallet can't fix."

 

heh.

 

this is the line I always remember:

 

A relationship I think is like a shark. It has to constantly move forward or it dies. And I think what we got on our hands is a dead shark.

[melissaw72]

I believe her. I was not believed when I told a trusted adult I had been abused, so my default is to believe others who come forward about abuse they have suffered. Ive never really been a fan of his movies, and I think him marrying his adopted daughter was super creepy. 

 

^THIS.

 

I am really not a fan of his movies, I just couldn't get "in to" them. 

 

But I was also not believed about being molested when I told trusted people, so when others come forward, especially in such a public way, I tend to believe them.

[San]

I'm not a big fan of his movies. I never got into them. That's pretty much all I have to say on that.

[AnnaBanana]

I've never watched a Woody Allen movie and honestly, don't have a desire too. Not because of anything he's done (ok, him marrying his step-daughter put him on my 'I don't care so much about ' list.). He's just never been interesting to me. I don't care for Tom Cruise. If he was in something, I'd watch it, but I wasn't all gaga on him and didn't understand the fuss about him. The couch jumping incident really turned me off him, him attacking Brooke Shields for taking anti-depressants after she came out about her postpartum depression absolutely made me completely dislike him. I won't watch anything that has him in it now. Woody Allen, he's just never been a blip on my radar.

[koa]

I liked Blue Jasmine and Vicky Christina Barcelona but thought Match Point was bad.  

 

I am also a fan of Roman Polanski's films although his personal life seems pretty sketchy.  

[water]

I liked Blue Jasmine and Vicky Christina Barcelona but thought Match Point was bad.  

 

I am also a fan of Roman Polanski's films although his personal life seems pretty sketchy.  

 

Roman Polanski is another very questionable figure.  I never really believed him at the trial years ago. I have read what the young woman said about the incident years after it happened.  

 

Despite her apparent forgiveness (I think), what Roman did seems pretty reprehensible.

[neptunesky]

Ronan is not his son. Apparently.

 

He isn't in the type of movies i would watch and i certainly would not watch anything of his now, i don't like tom cruise because of his treatment of Katie Holmes, she was not allowed a cellphone or painkillers during child labor.

Edited February 7, 2014 by neptunesky

[AnnaBanana]

Ronan is his adopted son, he claims him as a father. Neptunesky, you are such a nitwit and would do best to keep your mouth shut. You constantly speak on topics of which YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, then get pissy when corrected. Maybe you should just stick with what you actually KNOW, which seems to be quite little.

[Wooster]

Let's keep tabs on calling each other names, eh?

 

There's a difference between someone doing a behavior you don't like, and a personal attack. The first is fine, the second is not.

[water]

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

[melissaw72]

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

I have the news on a lot but mute the Woody Allen and Hoffman stories.  I don't mind Sochi as much.  But I HATE how this guy dies of a drug overdose, and the news talks about it so much, going on like IMO in a  way that says he was an exception to the fact of people who OD on drugs.  Making excuses for it.  If that makes sense.

[water]

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

I have the news on a lot but mute the Woody Allen and Hoffman stories.  I don't mind Sochi as much.  But I HATE how this guy dies of a drug overdose, and the news talks about it so much, going on like IMO in a  way that says he was an exception to the fact of people who OD on drugs.  Making excuses for it.  If that makes sense.

 

 

Didn't you hear? Celebrity shit don't stink.

[Indigo 'n dye]

 

I have the news on a lot but mute the Woody Allen and Hoffman stories.  I don't mind Sochi as much.  But I HATE how this guy dies of a drug overdose, and the news talks about it so much, going on like IMO in a  way that says he was an exception to the fact of people who OD on drugs.  Making excuses for it.  If that makes sense.

 

 

  I agree. Hoffman is his death has been anointed as "wonderful" and venerated. And it has not only been the media...I avoid mass media like the plague I think it is.

[neptunesky]

Ronan is his adopted son, he claims him as a father. Neptunesky, you are such a nitwit and would do best to keep your mouth shut. You constantly speak on topics of which YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, then get pissy when corrected. Maybe you should just stick with what you actually KNOW, which seems to be quite little.

 

Thanks for calling me stupid, i have never called you a name once, i have a degree from a top 30 British University and letters after my name. Think what you like about that, that the educational system is a shambles, but i still have my degree so stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!!!.

 

I always have been a bit dizzy, i was called the brunette blonde in school.

 

Wood Allen is not a huge Uk celebrity and that's why i did not know that Ronan was his adopted son, one

documentary reported that he wasn't his real son and Frank Sinatra was.

Edited February 10, 2014 by neptunesky

[chem]

As Wooster asked earlier, let's not call names here.

[Indigo 'n dye]

 And it makes me sad that people are so quick to defend and judge his good name as valuable whilst affording her no name at all, good or otherwise.

 

Yet, as we have witnessed over and over, he is judged over and over and over and over. Not much restraint has been shown in calling him despicable, et al.

 

From where I sit, no one has addressed the timing of the letter to the NYT, everyone is ready to accept the letter as God's own truth, and to accept the two Ms. Farrow's claims without a modicum of examination.

 

My hear aches for anyone who has been abused in any way.

 

Yet, I know someone who was accused of sexual child abuse and spent years in prison: unjustly as it turned out. My heart aches for her as well.

 

So, the accusations and aftereffects fall on both sides of the line of abuse. False accusations are as horrendous and accusations dismissed or covered over.

 

I do not dismiss Ms. Farrow's charges, regardless, yet I cannot judge another, anyone from what is, or is not presented in the media.

 

Saying I am sorry for your abuse, Titania, or any one else's suffering is all I can do. But, I would rather with hold judgment than make an accusation against someone, anyone who may not be guilty as they are accused.

 

I simply do not have the skills to be judge, nor do I want to be judged for my lack of readiness to hang the bastard.

Both parties suffer untold trauma and are inherently wounded.

[Indigo 'n dye]

...and you are now implying that I am an Allen apologist.

 

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. Judge away.

[bpladybug]

^^ sorry i was getting him confused with TIM ALLEN. They have the same last name.

I have to laugh

confusing Woody Allen for Tim Allen

they are soooo different

 

(not laughing at you neptune)

Edited February 10, 2014 by bpladybug

[water]

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

Well, you could live in NC like me and listen over and over again about our crappy politicians on the national news. There are only three areas in this entire state that aren't backwards and full of nit-wits.  

 

that's very sad.

[neptunesky]

Titania- Lost Prophets Ian Watkins did his crime, the amount of evidence they had against him was overwhelming, which i really do believe is true and would have convicted him, im glad that piece of shit is in prison. What he did literally made me sick, he did it, he's only protesting his innocence because our legal system is flawed and allows appeal after appeal according to European Human Rights laws.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25444255

 

I hope they never let him out of prison, he is a very sick sick man who abused babies and children.

Edited February 11, 2014 by neptunesky

[Chimako]

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

Well, you could live in NC like me and listen over and over again about our crappy politicians on the national news. There are only three areas in this entire state that aren't backwards and full of nit-wits.  

 

 

yeah.  only I thought it was two areas.  

[Indigo 'n dye]

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

Yet all three topics currently have a rather prominent place here on CB Or is that irony and incongruity only in my mind?

[AnnaBanana]

My honest opinion of the matter, YES I think he did it. I mean, he took pictures of Soon Yi, or whatever her name is NAKED before they hooked up. He got with an 18 year old DAUGHTER. I see a pattern there and no I don't think he should be celebrating, I think he should be publicly shamed.

[water]

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

Yet all three topics currently have a rather prominent place here on CB Or is that irony and incongruity only in my mind?

 

are you insinuating I started all three topics????

[Indigo 'n dye]

Insinuating? Not at all. Stating. The irony is remarkable.

 

 

   Woody Allen

in People Suck!
Started by water, 02 Feb 2014

 

Sochi

in Whatever
Started by water, 06 Feb 2014

• 1
• 2

Last Post by water,

 

a wonderful very talented young actor has passed

in Whatever
Started by water

 

ETA: I admit to adoring irony.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Indigo 'n dye

[water]

Insinuating? Not at all. Stating. The irony is remarkable.

 

 

   Woody Allen

in People Suck!

Started by water, 02 Feb 2014

 

Sochi

in Whatever

Started by water, 06 Feb 2014

• 1
• 2

Last Post by water,

 

a wonderful very talented young actor has passed

in Whatever

Started by water

 

ETA: I admit to adoring irony.

 

And what does all this mean about me Dr. Indigo?

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

Yet all three topics currently have a rather prominent place here on CB Or is that irony and incongruity only in my mind?

 

 

Exactly the reason for the topics.  Helps me deal with my angst, despair, sadness, frustration, anger over the news.

[Indigo 'n dye]

Water, you seem to be having a real problem with me...either deal with it or get over it: ignore me or confront me with panache.

 

If you do not see the irony in posting about how depressing the topics are and posting the topics,  that is a shame. It was enjoyable.

 

You can hang your "Dr. Indigo" snideness from you left nostril.

 

If I thought you were serious, water, I could point out several different ways to surmount your attraction to bad news. Alas, you are showing your contempt rather that truly seeking assistance.

 

Idioted for those damndable typos.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Indigo 'n dye

[water]

Water, you seem to be having a real problem with me...either deal with it or get over it: ignore me or confront me with panache.

 

If you do not see the irony in posting about how depressing the topics are and posting the topics,  that is a shame. It was enjoyable.

 

You can hang your "Dr. Indigo" snideness from you left nostril.

 

If I thought you were serious, water, I could point out several different ways to surmount your attraction to bad news. Alas, you are showing your contempt rather that truly seeking assistance.

 

Idioted for those damndable typos.

 

what??

 

I think you misunderstood me completely.

 

I was just trying to be funny and nice.  not mean at all.

 

I know I posted all the topics.  And I agree with everything you are saying. It just doesn't bother me.

 

Please don't be mad.  Pretty please? With sugar on top?

 

I think I have a strange sense of humour.  None of this is meant to be snide or anything. I was just joking.  

Edited February 12, 2014 by water

[water]

 

Water, you seem to be having a real problem with me...either deal with it or get over it: ignore me or confront me with panache.

 

If you do not see the irony in posting about how depressing the topics are and posting the topics,  that is a shame. It was enjoyable.

 

You can hang your "Dr. Indigo" snideness from you left nostril.

 

If I thought you were serious, water, I could point out several different ways to surmount your attraction to bad news. Alas, you are showing your contempt rather that truly seeking assistance.

 

Idioted for those damndable typos.

 

what??

 

I think you misunderstood me completely.

 

I was just trying to be funny and nice.  not mean at all.

 

I know I posted all the topics.  And I agree with everything you are saying. It just doesn't bother me.

 

Please don't be mad.  Pretty please? With sugar on top?

 

I think I have a strange sense of humour.  

 

 

 

Insinuating? Not at all. Stating. The irony is remarkable.

 

 

   Woody Allen

in People Suck!

Started by water, 02 Feb 2014

 

Sochi

in Whatever

Started by water, 06 Feb 2014

• 1
• 2

Last Post by water,

 

a wonderful very talented young actor has passed

in Whatever

Started by water

 

ETA: I admit to adoring irony.

 

And what does all this mean about me Dr. Indigo?

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

Yet all three topics currently have a rather prominent place here on CB Or is that irony and incongruity only in my mind?

 

 

Exactly the reason for the topics.  Helps me deal with my angst, despair, sadness, frustration, anger over the news.

 

 

 

 

 

Insinuating? Not at all. Stating. The irony is remarkable.

 

 

   Woody Allen

in People Suck!

Started by water, 02 Feb 2014

 

Sochi

in Whatever

Started by water, 06 Feb 2014

• 1
• 2

Last Post by water,

 

a wonderful very talented young actor has passed

in Whatever

Started by water

 

ETA: I admit to adoring irony.

 

And what does all this mean about me Dr. Indigo?

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

 

Yet all three topics currently have a rather prominent place here on CB Or is that irony and incongruity only in my mind?

 

 

Exactly the reason for the topics.  Helps me deal with my angst, despair, sadness, frustration, anger over the news.

 

 

 

Water, you seem to be having a real problem with me...either deal with it or get over it: ignore me or confront me with panache.

 

If you do not see the irony in posting about how depressing the topics are and posting the topics,  that is a shame. It was enjoyable.

 

You can hang your "Dr. Indigo" snideness from you left nostril.

 

If I thought you were serious, water, I could point out several different ways to surmount your attraction to bad news. Alas, you are showing your contempt rather that truly seeking assistance.

 

Idioted for those damndable typos.

 

How did you get here from above?  I really don't understand.  Sorry if I am being obtuse.  

 

edit: I guess what I am saying is, are you angry at  me?

Edited February 12, 2014 by water

[Indigo 'n dye]

Angry?Not at all. To be angry one has to "give a shit". Am I disappointed? Absolutely.

[water]

Angry?Not at all. To be angry one has to "give a shit". Am I disappointed? Absolutely.

I've disappointed you?  why?

[Indigo 'n dye]

You post that you suffer distress about current events, yet cannot, do not, or refuse to see the irony in posting topics on CB about those exact events.

 

That is disappointing. I thought you were more cosmopolitan than that.

 

To be wholly honest and fully candid it seems to me that you are in the hurricane's eye of a major meltdown. If you truly cannot control your urge to listen to, watch, or read the worst of the news is a horrific place to be.

 

Disconnect your TV, stop your newspaper delivery, banish the radio and pay attention to you and your family. That is the way to freedom from mass media and throwing off the shackles that bind you to the garbage the press is spoon feeding you.

 

I challenge you to do so for 30 days.

[water]

You post that you suffer distress about current events, yet cannot, do not, or refuse to see the irony in posting topics on CB about those exact events.

 

That is disappointing. I thought you were more cosmopolitan than that.

 

To be wholly honest and fully candid it seems to me that you are in the hurricane's eye of a major meltdown. If you truly cannot control your urge to listen to, watch, or read the worst of the news is a horrific place to be.

 

Disconnect your TV, stop your newspaper delivery, banish the radio and pay attention to you and your family. That is the way to freedom from mass media and throwing off the shackles that bind you to the garbage the press is spoon feeding you.

 

I challenge you to do so for 30 days.

wow.

[Indigo 'n dye]

wow.

 

You asked. I answered.

[Indigo 'n dye]

Do you meet the challenge or dismiss it?

[ovOidampUle]

Woody Allen's movies are interesting because he is fucked up. If he was well adjusted and "normal," his movies might still be great, but they sure as heck wouldn't be Woody Allen movies.

 

I don't have a problem separating the artist from his art; I will object when supporting an artists work is synonymous with supporting a cause I suppose. Wagner is dead, so I can say I like him without supporting anti-semitism. Woody Allen isn't molesting any more children because I watch one of his movies and nobody is claiming movie sales are proportional to innocence.

 

Duck Dynasty, where one of the players expressed some really horrible anti-gay views off-the-air, is a borderline example. If society makes watching the show some litmus test on my politics, it would be annoying but I'd probably be influenced by that pressure. More realistically, though, I'd probably stop watching the show because I'd stop liking the people in it; even though is should be no surprise that Christians who use the word "patriarch" are homophobes.

[Mim]

I don't care one way or another about Woody Allen. Never saw his movies. I understand that he is not everything he may or may not have committed, but it does bother me that the "ado" is made over this for no other reason than his celebrity. Death happens. Hey ho, someone still has to pick up the fucking living room and make something to eat.

 

 

It is also incredibly painful to see people agonize about how much harder it is to enjoy something as superficial as a movie. They've lost the illusion that this man wasn't a paedophile. That is all. The movie may still be art, the man who made it continues to enjoy fame, nothing and no one can stop that. It just seems to make a mockery when Allens fanbase wax lyrical about how sad it is for them to have to change their worldview. In my view, they can get over it and the privileged place they muse from, the one where they weren't violated by a parent and shamed for it..

 

I don't care who watches or enjoys his movies. I can see that he might be a fantastic writer, I am a writer, I can see that. I can also see that he refuses to address the issues and is smearing his own stepdaughter to shame her about sexual abuse that was documented by medical professionals and that Dylan as reluctant to report in the first place. Whether he touched her or not (and I can easily believe that he did) there is zero compassion and mucho entitlement to his response. And it makes me sad that people are so quick to defend and judge his good name as valuable whilst affording her no name at all, good or otherwise. Because it echoes what society really thinks and how much injustice people who report child sexual abuse face. The burden is on kids to 'prove it' or be silenced.

 

If someone wasn't sexually abused by a parent, I am incredibly envious of them and the life that afforded them. But no, I don't really care about the angst generated about whether someone can still enjoy a movie.

 

I am that person who was never sexually abused, yet I agree 100% with every statement you have made here, and I'm sorry with my whole heart that anyone should ever have to envy me that.

 

You know, without wanting to seem callous or horrible, it is not my business whether he molested his stepdaughter or not. If he did, that act is HIS shame, not hers, and it makes me sad for his stepdaughter that she should have to be confronted with a culture of "prove it." There are no words for what a putrid, heinous attitude that is.

 

Yet, it is also, in a way, troubling to me that she should have had her name dragged around by the leering vulture of "news" over this. That seems to me a gross invasion of privacy, not to mention massively disrespectful. It is she for whom I "feel." It is horrible that our culture makes so much over this, without actually talking about sexual assault/abuse in a respectful way, or offering useful support or respect to the victims one way or another. The vampiric fascination with "celebrity" is disturbing to me.

 

I don't know that I've come across in the way I hoped. What I really mean is that it seems a shame to me that the onus is so often placed on the victims, and that they should have to be shamed over it. Fuck. It's one thing if a survivor wants to come out with their story on their own, another entirely to have that taken from their hands.

 

EDIT: I probably shouldn't post this. This is one of those issues that actually sort of reaches my cold, deep-frozen heart. Oh well.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Mim

[saveyoursanity]

Mim, thank you for your response.

 

I've avoided this thread because I am deeply, deeply hurt by people who question the testimony of survivors of any type of abuse.   As Indigo advised water to do, I do in fact avoid the television, the news, etc etc.  (with the exception of elections, which I research thoroughly) Sometimes when I'm in a good mental place, I enjoy laughing at the Daily Show and the Colbert Report.  I hear of the news through other people's reactions to it, and frankly I find most of the reactions to this 'news' beyond comprehension.

 

Let the vultures pick at their prey, because they are animals and they must, but we are human beings and all beings deserve compassion.  I will always stand with the survivors of abuse, whomever they may be.

[ovOidampUle]

Oh, and whoever thinks that Hoffman wasn't celebrated and venerated *before* his death is just flat out wrong. Hoffman has been considered a master actor for years.

 

Carry on.

Edited February 13, 2014 by ovOidampUle

[water]

Oh, and whoever thinks that Hoffman wasn't celebrated and venerated *before* his death is just flat out wrong. Hoffman has been considered a master actor for years.

 

Carry on.

has always been my favorite male actor. did you see him in Scent of a Woman?

[koa]

 

Can't turn on the news anymore.  either talking about Woody or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Sochi.  All so depressing.

Well, you could live in NC like me and listen over and over again about our crappy politicians on the national news. There are only three areas in this entire state that aren't backwards and full of nit-wits.  

 

 

I am from the state just south of you and there are NO areas in that entire state that aren't backwards and full of nit-wits!    

[koa]

 

And maybe an element of that is that creative types should have accountability as a part of being in the public eye. I don't know, that's a controversial debate to have in and of itself.

 

Well, I'm not sure why this accountability would be limited to people in creative fields, or to famous people, as if either of those groups of people should be treated any differently than anyone else.  The thing is, it is impossible for us to judge people whom we have never met or know little about.  I am not judging Woody Allen or Dylan.  I simply don't have access to enough information to know if either of them are correct in their claims.  

 

Would I want to be friends with Woody Allen, or trust him to babysit my daughter?  No... he has always come off as a bit creepy to me... but I can still watch one of his movies.

 

Admittedly I don't really watch TV much, so I'm not really aware of anyone dragging Dylan's name through the mud.  I could understand how that would be irritating to SA survivors.    

Edited February 13, 2014 by koakua

[Velvet Elvis]

This is the town where I grew up:

 

http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/02/fight-over-tennessee-mosque-has-cost-one-county-343276-so-far/358054/

[ovOidampUle]

has always been my favorite male actor. did you see him in Scent of a Woman?

 

 

I haven't seen that one. I think he's adorkable in "Big Lebowski," but "Capote" and "The Master" were really good, and he's just been a side character in a lot of other movies, and I've enjoyed his perfomance even before I recognized him as the same person in those separate films.

[ovOidampUle]

This is the town where I grew up:

 

Aren't they still paying the legal bills from that time they insisted on teaching creationism?

[crtclms]

I think that was Dover, PA. Unless you are talking about Skokie.

[water]

Pretty amazing article written by Ronan Allen on the day his father's film Cafe Society opens the Cannes Film Festival.

Ronan brings together all these conflicting complex elements - and somehow manages to write a coherent explanation of his OWN personal actions.

I imagine this is in response to Woody's own article in The HOllywood Reporter.  

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/my-father-woody-allen-danger-892572