hagar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The situation in Ukraine that's been escalating for the past few months seems to be reaching tragic new levels of fucked up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26268620 http://www.france24.com/en/20140220-eu-foreign-ministers-head-kiev-sanctions-loom-ukraine-laurent-fabius%20/ = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yeah, I've heard about this on the news so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickler Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/28/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140228 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/28/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140228 It is sad when they put it this way: "U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Moscow, which put 150,000 troops on high alert on Wednesday for war games" -- referring to all this as a "game." WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I agree that it's a dumb phrase, but I think "war games" technically means something like a military exercise/simulation rather than an actual conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeremonyNewOrder Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yes war games are military exercises but states use them also as warnings to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exl2398 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm betting Putin continues to be stupid, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Putin is trying to reassemble the soviet union only without the Soviet part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I agree that it's a dumb phrase, but I think "war games" technically means something like a military exercise/simulation rather than an actual conflict. Oh ok, thanks ... didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Putin is trying to reassemble the soviet union only without the Soviet part. I posted this elsewhere three days ago: " Pessimist? I can see Putin recreating the "Sudetenland" tactic and moving in forces, giving as justification the protection of the Russian-speaking people of the Eastern Ukraine. I hope I'm completely wrong, but thinking "no-one would be so stupid as to do that" hasn't had a great track record as a basis for successful predictions so far this century." Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exl2398 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hell, he's got Crimea, and is already moving into eastern Ukraine. That didn't take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hell, he's got Crimea, and is already moving into eastern Ukraine. That didn't take long. May well be. But if so, this is not going to be a relatively orderly and peaceful rearrangement of states, as in the former Czechoslovakia. This is far more likely to be like the former Yugoslavia. The Tatars will not accept a Russian Crimea. Not with their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickler Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) I think Putin will be able to hold Crimea without a whole lot of unrest. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/tensions-rise-in-crimean-capital-as-armed-men-continue-to-take-up-posts.html?_r=0 There appears to be popular support for a Russian takeover. I'm not seeing how we could get troops in there even if we wanted to...and there's a reason the cold war was fought through proxies. Fighting Russia directly is still, like, world war 3 time. ...Our leaders have to make lots of noise, of course. Edited March 1, 2014 by Stickler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I think Putin will be able to hold Crimea without a whole lot of unrest. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/tensions-rise-in-crimean-capital-as-armed-men-continue-to-take-up-posts.html?_r=0 There appears to be popular support for a Russian takeover. ...Our leaders have to make lots of noise, of course. I can't see anything but violent unrest. Yes, the majority in the Crimea are Russian-speaking and largely Russian inclined, but the minority are *very* anti-Russian, and being made more so by current events. A largely autonomous Crimea within the Ukraine had been (approximately) for all parties a tolerable situation "for now" for sixty years. I'd like to be wrong, but I see this becoming very bloody, and not as a short sharp conflict. Yes, RUSSIA, UK, and USA had agreed to assure the Ukraine's , territory, sovereignty and independence. "Put not your trust in princes." I see parallels from my history reading, and not good ones. Czechoslovakia, 1938 Belgium, 1914 And the United Nations looking as powerful as its failed predecessor The League of Nations. What a new century. Did we learn anything from the last one? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26405635 "Ukraine announces it is calling up military reservists, following Russia's decision to allow deployment of troops" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 wonderful. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26405635 "Ukraine announces it is calling up military reservists, following Russia's decision to allow deployment of troops" The link says "page not found." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 wonderful. The link says "page not found." BBC front page here, including live emails and tweets http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ "12:50: Boris Sergeev in Novosibirsk, Russia emails: I'm a Russian, live in the centre of Russia - Siberia. No idea why Putin did this, this must be some mistake. We, the middle class of Russia, don't want any war, we don't want any imperial ambitions to be established. We want a decent life for us and our children and good relations with the whole world and with our neighbours. But even if he made this mistake, Putin has never retreated and he never said he was wrong. And this is what scares me most." It's a train wreck: You want to help but there's nothing you can do. You're not doing any good even to yourself by looking, but it's hard to stop. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 "12:50: Boris Sergeev in Novosibirsk, Russia emails: I'm a Russian, live in the centre of Russia - Siberia. No idea why Putin did this, this must be some mistake. We, the middle class of Russia, don't want any war, we don't want any imperial ambitions to be established. We want a decent life for us and our children and good relations with the whole world and with our neighbours. But even if he made this mistake, Putin has never retreated and he never said he was wrong. And this is what scares me most." Isn't this the story of every armed conflict ever in the history of ever? Basically? I guess it's been a while since the last war in Europe. What, a decade or two? Not counting the last war Russia had like 6 years ago? It must be that time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Thanks Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
water Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Did all this just escalate today? I keep thinking it is getting better but now, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpladybug Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 no it is getting worse right NOW the russians are trying to take over a Ukrainian military base just saw it on CNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissaw72 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 What a fucking nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emettman Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 no it is getting worse right NOW the russians are trying to take over a Ukrainian military base just saw it on CNN And they left again? An over-keen local commander reined back? a "we can if we want to" demonstration of power? It is likely that ten quiet but nervy days are coming now, until the Crimea has its referendum. If that is *against* joining Russia all bets are off. (it may be: I've seen interviews with Russian speakers thinking they can get more Crimean autonomy staying with the Ukraine, than with Russia http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26486289) If for Russia, it leaves more ground for discord. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
water Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 He's got Crimea and now he wants the whole shebang. At whatever cost. Putin is a malignant narcissistic. A sociopath perhaps. There is a fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 He's got Crimea and now he wants the whole shebang. At whatever cost. Putin is a malignant narcissistic. A sociopath perhaps. There is a fine line. Yes. It's frightening what this all could lead to. Not to mention the apparent resurgence of the far-right across much of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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