First Stims (Adderall) - Um...

[pigsaflyin]

Granted, I started yesterday with a baby dose (bit a 5mg tab in roughly half) of

?Regular Release? because I am the side effect queen - and Wellbutrin DID make me a bit ornery, so I am leery of dopamine overstimulation. Note: Doc favors short-acting stims for adults because (presumably responsible) adults can then

[celestia]

I didn't get the "pleasant" focus (non)feeling I got from lower doses of Strattera, although the drive was definitely there. Maybe I'll ask about adding 10-20 mgs of Strattera later on.

.......

My Pdoc made me jump through some incredible hoops to try these things (I'm sure I could have found some on the street, but what good would that have done in the long haul?), but in the end, I think it might be worth it.

Yea! for me!

pigs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm prescribed Ritalin, but I don't take it like a grown-up should. I'm thinking about asking to switch to Straterra. Can you tell me what made you go the other way? And can you tell me a little more about the "pleasant focus" and "(non)feeling" Straterra response you had?

Thanks,

HB

[pigsaflyin]

Hard to describe, except I felt very level and calm and any despair I had was zapped right out of existence. I dunno, it was kind of "dreamy" but not. The info post on Crazy Meds decribed it as "Weirdly Happy" - which is a good term. Also, as with the adderall, I fell asleep easier. I COULD perform slightly longer tasks, but the drive factor was low and zero benefit in motivation to start new stuff happened.

This went well (starting at 10 mgs and moving up very, very slowly - at least two weeks between dose changes) until I hit 50mg and started to feel fatigued and tired. That's a low dose for most, but I read the other day that 1-in-10 ADHD adults are highly med sensitive and seem to need much lower doses of most meds than others - which would neatly explain why SSRIs and Wellbutrin were a bad experience for me (not made in low enough doses - even with pill splitting).

As I understand it, Norepinephrine is focus, Dopamine is drive. Strattera affects purely NE, while Stims hit NE and DA both - with more emphasis on DA. Plus, Strattera only uses what your body already has, while Stims enhance production of additional NE and DA. This is what I understand, anyway. there's some thought that Strattera can backfire past your personal sweet spot, as it did with me, if you just don't have enough NE to go around.

Overall, this is better even on dose two (I'm only back on the boards after more than hour of hard concentration as opposed to five minutes). But I will say that the Strattera was somewhat smoother in effect.

Of course, what's not smooth about willy-nilly happy focus that goes where it wants to instead of where it should?

pigs

[pigsaflyin]

So day four starts, and I'm riding the fence on this Adderall business.

Upside:

Can stay on task longer without acting on impulses to stray (still get them, but don't feel a pressing NEED to act them out).

Also able to entertain larger tasks as having discrete, single steps that don't intimidate/overwhelm as much (at least I can take a single step out of the whole mix and ignore the rest if I choose to - which is progress, for sure).

Much more likely to start a given task/step.

Tasks don't FEEL like they're taking forever (I went to the gym yesterday for the first time in months - and instead of feeling like the 10 minute treadmill warmup was a life sentence, it passed before I knew it. In fact, the whole hour or so felt more like 30 minutes. Definitely do-able.)

Zero constipation as opposed to moderately bothersome constipation with Strattera.

Weird but true - Adderall has regulated my appetite, where as Strattera supressed it altogether. Maybe it's because I get hungry as it is wearing off - so I eat every 5-6 hours? Not bad. Better than eating nothing until 4 pm then eating for the rest of the night.

Trade-off:

Sweet spot dose impossible to manage. Somewhere around 2/3 - 3/4 of a 5 mg oval pill. Sheesh. 1/2 too litle, whole pill more jangly. Whay can't I have a tolerance (to anything) like everyone else?

Overall calm, but with a slight underlying "edginess", though not on the rumbling, smoking volcano level that was Wellbutrin.

Still want to avoid tasks that are embarassingly behind.

Sometimes struggle for words, especially when it is wearing off. Will need to be very diligent about scheduling doses to avoid this when needed.

Dry mouth pretty awful.

Other:

Had some chest tightness for about 20 minutes on day two. A little scary, but it passed and never returned. Heart rate was totally manageable at the gym - at least as much as it ever was (I have to slow down often on the eliptical trainer to avoid certain death).

Can still drink wine like a pro, as I discovered last night. Not sure I want to, though. I don't think Adderall and hangovers mix very well, at least not right now. Strattera used to CURE a hangover, I kid you not.

[Sunshine]

My take after being on Adderall for six years (both immediate and extended release). I've never been on Strattera, have taken Wellbutrin (but not for ADD).

Far fewer side-effects with Adderall than any other med I've been on (except, perhaps, Provigil).

Most bothersome side-effect: appetite suppression (I've always been underweight to begin with). You're taking less than 5mg? I'm not surprised you aren't getting any appetitie suppression. I take 20-30 mg/day.

I get the edginess sometimes, too. Also jittery and shaky. It's definitely worse when I'm on other psych meds (for years the only med I was taking was Adderall).

Combining alchohol (in reasonable amounts) with Adderall only was never a problem for me. Different story with my current cocktail.

You'll get a smoother ride on the extended release version. But with your sensitivities, it might be hard to dose correctly. I don't think it comes in anything less than 10 mg, the equivalent of two 5 mg doses per day.

Even though this is a drug that you'll get an immediate response to, it can still take a while for your body to adjust - so give it some time before makinig your mind up for sure!

~Sunshine

[ldo]

I've been taking the stuff about a year. When I started, also with 5mg, the stuff really slammed into me. Muscle tension, twitches, edginess etc. But after a while, I can't remember exactly how long, these problems faded until now I seldom notice them. I can take as much as 20mg at a time without hitting the ceiling, tho usually it's 15 in the AM and 10 or 15 in the afternoon.  Took me quite a while to get to that point.

I don't get quite as many good effects as you, but it does help a lot. Especially in difficult social situations.

I had elevated blood pressure, but I'm not entirely sure it was the Adderall, and it's come down since then to a reasonable level. Not sure if fish oil had anything to do with it coming down or not.

I don't tend to feel the rebound unless I'm really short on sleep, as I was last week. Took me a while to figure out what it was.

Regarding SSRI's, Prozak has such a long half life I bet you could take it every other day. I get it in generic 20mg pills which are scored to snap in half.

[pigsaflyin]

Thanks, guys. I actually upped the dose a little today - from the 5 mgs I had worked up to to about 7.5 because as the morning went by I felt like I could be getting a little more out of it - and I did.

HOLY CRAP. It's like I grew a brain, from nothing. I actually decided I wanted to do something (go into the studio and work on material) and just DID it, without hemming and hawing over this and that and the other thing.

Not only that, my improvisational skills improved immediately. I've struggled a lot with that becasue you really do have to have a solid but natural train of thought to do it live and not go someplace completely irrelevant and - horror - BAD. And squeaking out a bad note or series thereof will derail me even further because it distracts the crap out of me.

But not today. I just did it - it flowed - I didn't think about anything else when I was doing it - AND (this is the best part) - when I did screw up, I RECOVERED SEAMLESSLY. And I have the tape to prove it! On playback, I realized that only 1 out of every 20 people would have realized it wasn't deliberate. Damn.

Man-oh-man-oh-man. This stuff is majick.

Swear to god I haven't enjoyed it so much in years - if ever. I remembered what

I loved about it in the first place.

It's like I'm my "old self" only better than I ever was. Plus - I'm gfairly pleasant, not so uptight about it all. Relaxed but focused and motivated.

Now - let's see if we can translate this across tasks I don't like so much. I'm sure that will be more challenging, but hell - I really deserved to have some fun today. It's been a while.

Makes me feel kinda hopeful. And guilty - like I shouldn't take this and have a good time, as if that will turn me into one of those pathetic meth-addicted mothers that show up on Oprah.

On the downside, the chest tightness resturned - but it may just be muscle stuff as my pulse is fine and it doesn't really feel like a heart thing. Plus I didn't even notice it while I was working - only now that I'm not using my chest muscles.

pigs - who appreciates tolerant compassion for her med-weeny ways (I realize I require lots of hand-holding for meds, if not much else - and I really thank you).

[pigsaflyin]

Bothersome new developments AND additional good effects:

At the 7.5 dose today felt "euphoric", though while not unpleasant per se, also alarming - as if I shouldn't take this is if makes me feel that way. Is that common during adjustment? I felt some of that, slight, at the initial tiny doses and it did fade, but today was rather much (I've never liked being altered, except with alcohol to some extent - so I have zero real experience with the difference between the experience of the legit user and the abuser).

Also Insomnia is worse, even if I take only a second dose at 2pm. Was not for the first three days, slept like a baby. I think this complicates matters as I am more sensitive to even coffee if I lack sleep.

On the other hand:

Appetite suppression has arrived, although I have little problem eating because I need to. Can't hurt me, as I've gotten soft.

I'm much more easy-going. I've become, over the years, very conscientious about evaluating my feelings before speaking, to avoid jabbing people with my frustrations, but I find that I'm not jumoing through those hoops because I don't really feel all that frustrated (when I would normally be quite peeved).

.....................

HAve not yet really begun to master using this to very pointedly direct the new-found focus and task tolerance - just doing the usual things mostly, and looking for the differences, as I'm still evaluating how I feel and getting used to it all. I'm so damn princess and the pea.

Frankly, I really like the benefits, which outweigh everything but insomnia.

But - I'm a little afraid of finding that this is not right for me and losing the benefits, as it is like I have found parts of my brain I didn't even know were there. I feel really upset at the idea that I maybe should not take anything that makes me feel euphoric (though I do not have an addiction Hx aside from cigs and caffiene). Is that a bad sign? Should I jsut go ahead and schedule my Oprah appearance?

Or maybe it's like when I went to buy my most recent auto:

Me: It's nice. Maybe TOO nice....(not too expensive, too nice. With leather seats and all)

Salesman (looks at me like I dropped from a spaceship): What? You don't deserve "nice'? Is there something wrong with nice?

I had to think about that, and eventually bought the damn thing and I still like it, although it is not as nice as it once was due to my slovenly ADD ways.

That's a pretty twisted outlook - Not sure I deserve to feel good.

Any thoughts will be helpful!

pigs, bruised atop twenty mattresses

[Dixie_Amazon]

Maybe try a trial of Adderall XR. Much smoother and you don't have to think about when to take your next dose or skip the next dose cause it is too late in the day. The sleep thing may work itself out. I take 40mg of Adderall XR plus sometimes 5mg Ritalin in the late afternoon and still manage to go to sleep fine. So in other words I may not be the best judge of that. 

Did you have any sleep problems prior to Adderall? Do you have trouble going to sleep or do you wake up in the middle of the night?

[pigsaflyin]

LIFETIME struggles going to sleep, last few years started waking in the night or just too early (period of acute-then-PT SD, but that has diminished while on-agaon/off again waking remains).

Usual nite-time PRN klonopin dose (.5mgs) doesn't touch this insomnia, although it didn't always work before, either; it was just more reliable.. This insomnia is just worse.

Night before last: Fell asleep at 4, rose at 7:30.

Last night fell asleep around 8, only to awaken at 10:00 and remain up until 3:30, up at 8.

I'm running on WAY too little sleep right now, and in my experience with other meds, side-effects are much more noticeable when I'm sans fuel.

I tool my Adderall, 5 mgs, kind of reluctantly but also because I need to stay awake in an effort to get my schedule truned back around. In a way I would have preferred to skip it, benefit or no.

pigs

[Dixie_Amazon]

All I can think to do is call you pdoc and see if they will call in something else for you to try for sleep (or free samples). Since it is an ongoing problem I doubt that the Adderall is the main problem. Have you ever tried melatonin? A lot of ADDers find it helpful especially to get back on schedule. 1 to 3 mg half an hour before bed. Try it on an evening when you don't have a busy morning schedule in case you are one of the ones like me that it make drowsy the next day.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or heath care provider, blah, blah, blah...  B)

[pigsaflyin]

Tried the melatonin for a couple of nights and it seems to be working. We'll see tonight, since I had plenty last night and am not ready to drop dead, just getting routinely tired. Managed to get out to the gym early this AM, so that may help.

Am starting to adjust to it all pretty nicely - was somewhat productive and in a decent mood today, although I did experience some (physical-type) anxiety, but half a .5 klonopin seemed to smooth that out.

I've also figured out how to avoid the roller coaster with creative dosing. Instead of waiting til the appointed hour to take a whole pil, I split one of the little buggers into fourths, take one fourth about an hour and a half befopre I'm scheduled to, then the balance at the appointed hour. This actually seems to work well.

I just took 1/2 because I'm starting to get the rebound (including a bit of weepiness - I've experienced this a couple of times when it's wearing off - have any of you?) and I have to rehearse shortly.

I need to figure out haow to balance this stuff well for tomorrow night, because I have to play from 6 - 10 pm, and I don't want the late-day weepy-janglies to interfere with my party (I don't want to suck!!!).

Maybe I should skip some of the daytime doses?

Any thoughts on that?

pigs

[Velvet Elvis]

Gensing can help with rebound.  So can booze if you don't have a problem with it.

Part of why some people feel like crap when their stims wear off is because it makes it easy to forget to eat so your blood sugar drops through the floor and you don't notice until the meds wear off.

Some euphoria is normal, particularly at first.  It is amphetamine, after all. 

Given your overall sensitivity to the peaks and vallies and medications in general, you really might benefit from taking the sustained release version.

[Cerberus]

Some euphoria is normal, particularly at first.

[pigsaflyin]

Well, the euphoria passed and aside from physical jitters, I'm calm as can be. Don't even have much to say on the matter (or much else, I'm so mellow) anymore. That damn fast - 9 days.

Perhaps you, dear Cerberus, are not so much grim as you are simply a kind person in battle with his inner curmudgeon? Or a curmudgeon duking it out with his inner sweetie-pie?

One would necessarily be horrified by the other, leading to a gloomy limbo. That I can realate to, having struggle long to balance bothe disparate elements of me. I got them to shake hands and now they live together peacefully, for the most part

Just my thought.

pigs