Henry Rollins rant about Robin Williams*potential triggers

[tired tammy]

I have always liked Henry Rollins. He says, "Hi" when he means "Hi" and, "Fuck you!" when he means "Fuck you!" I am not sure what I think of what he is saying in this rant, but I thought it was interesting he had this opinion.

 

http://uproxx.com/music/2014/08/henry-rollins-wrote-a-confusing-rant-about-robin-williams-depression-and-suicide/

 

Please feel free to move this post if it is not in the appropriate place.

 

Thanks!

[confused]

I had a tdoc tell me I couldn't commit suicide because I have children. I have trouble accepting that. I don't want to harm others but it helps me to keep going if I know there is a way to escape.

[LunaRufina]

I don't know a lot about Henry Rollins, so this is actually a serious question...

Is he certifiable?

 

I'm actually curious at this point.

Some of the things he says in what he wrote here make me wonder if he's a crazy and in denial, or he knows and doesn't want to deal with it in a "main stream" way [his choice], or... door number three?

 

I mean, I am legitimately questioning his personal experience with sanity or lack thereof at this point.

 

Part of it is due to the emotionally charged way he can't seem to pick what he actually thinks, and part of it is how he seems to know what he's talking about... but doesn't?  Or maybe he kinda does. Doesn't.

 

What?

 

---

 

To respond to what may possibly be his thesis statement [not sure]... 

 

What is the proposed solution he has to offer here?

 

If a person isn't getting treatment/care that is actually effective, and they are at a point that they are suicidal  or are constantly intensely depressed because of it... most often they don't receive the support they need which could help in many many OTHER WAYS, because they get told such things as "life is what you make it"...

 

I mean that's just one of several responses at this point.

Edited August 23, 2014 by LunaRufina

[tired tammy]

I don't know a lot about Henry Rollins, so this is actually a serious question...

Is he certifiable?

 

I'm actually curious at this point.

Some of the things he says in what he wrote here make me wonder if he's a crazy and in denial, or he knows and doesn't want to deal with it in a "main stream" way [his choice], or... door number three?

 

I mean, I am legitimately questioning his personal experience with sanity or lack thereof at this point.

 

Part of it is due to the emotionally charged way he can't seem to pick what he actually thinks, and part of it is how he seems to know what he's talking about... but doesn't?  Or maybe he kinda does. Doesn't.

 

What?

Henry Rollins clearly has some issues, but is usually pretty interesting. I just didn't know what he means. It was confusing to me!

[KillBytes]

It's a double edge sword. While I certainly agree with the core of his comments regarding parents, I am a father and my children are the only thing that keeps me from checking out. He fails to understand the otherside of that coin. The constant roller coaster ride, the endless ups and downs. Over and over again for many years. I'm 59 and believe me I understand both sides of this coin and one can not so easily dismiss what a person feels in that state of mind. I have no problem with Rollins expressing his opinion. And I agree suicide should not be glamorized in any respect. But I would not condemn some one who does check out. It's impossible to really know what was going on in Robin Williams mind his finally days. How much pain he was in. It only takes a moment of weakness to make the wrong decession.

[tired tammy]

Thanks for responding, I just didn't know how to take what he wrote. It sort of pissed me off...

 

He has since wrote an apology, so that is something.

 

http://henryrollins.com/news

[LunaRufina]

I feel bad for the guy actually. 

I can imagine what some of those letters must have said, but not all. And I bet a good number of them were under the assumption that he had absolutely no idea what it was like to be depressed. 

 

So, reading a letter like that, knowing [apparently- so he has now said] what it feels like to feel that low must have felt pretty fucking bad.

 

But it explains why his rant was so... ranty and confused and all over the place, and why he seemed to have a touch of the crazy in it [to me anyway- or maybe I just want everyone to be nuts]... if that is indeed what he's saying in the link you just posted, Tammy.

[cipher]

I'm a henry fan, and interviewed him when the "weight" album came out for a radio station. He's incredibly polite, well spoken, and knows what time it is. his best friend joe cole was shot some time ago, which seems like the "For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there. "

 

i don't drive a car - firstly, because i can't afford one, and don't have a license, but am also aware of just how easy it would be to kill myself with one, and it would be written off as a car crash, not a suicide.

i don't have children - i can't support myself, let alone anyone else, and have never been in a relationship anyway.

 

the handwringing concept that if people are suicidal, that all they have to do is call lifeline as noted is this local article is laughable. so i can have someone tell me that i'm obviously in stress? so they can ask me what i've done when i've been like this before? so they can call the cops to my house who then call an ambulance who then take me 2 blocks to the nearest hospital where they can't do anything but make an appointment with the local area mental health service in 2 weeks time?

 

 

meanwhile: you can bet LA weekly are fucking THRILLED at the hits, yelling more henry, more! *shakes head*

for those who have missed out on henry, a personal favourite on dating:

Edited August 23, 2014 by cipher

[Velvet Elvis]

If you read his rant on this without being familiar with his greater body of work, you'll probably get the wrong idea.  He's a punk rock philosopher of sorts with his own unique spin on the world, just like Jello Biafra.  He very easily taken out of context and misunderstood by people who don't get his entire worldview.  I've been following him at a distance for way over 20 years now.

 

He's a motivational speaker, in his own way.

This album was my introduction to his solo work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lm0XICM94g

[Velvet Elvis]

I'm a henry fan, and interviewed him when the "weight" album came out for a radio station. He's incredibly polite, well spoken, and knows what time it is. his best friend joe cole was shot some time ago, which seems like the "For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there. "

 

i don't drive a car - firstly, because i can't afford one, and don't have a license, but am also aware of just how easy it would be to kill myself with one, and it would be written off as a car crash, not a suicide.

i don't have children - i can't support myself, let alone anyone else, and have never been in a relationship anyway.

 

the handwringing concept that if people are suicidal, that all they have to do is call lifeline as noted is this local article is laughable. so i can have someone tell me that i'm obviously in stress? so they can ask me what i've done when i've been like this before? so they can call the cops to my house who then call an ambulance who then take me 2 blocks to the nearest hospital where they can't do anything but make an appointment with the local area mental health service in 2 weeks time?

 

 

meanwhile: you can bet LA weekly are fucking THRILLED at the hits, yelling more henry, more! *shakes head*

for those who have missed out on henry, a personal favourite on dating:

 

OK, Now you got me started.

 

Grr.  I can't find any of clips I'm looking for on youtube.  I might have to rip and upload them myself.  

He helped me through a really rough time in my early to mid 20s.

[cipher]

i really love this part of what he wrote:
"Many years ago, I lived in Silver Lake with a housemate who suffered from severe bouts of depression. When she wasn’t in her small bedroom with the lights off, crying for hours, she was bright and hilarious. Anywhere we went, we laughed our asses off. She fought her depression with everything from bike rides to drugs, prescribed and otherwise. Years after the last time I saw her, I guess she could no longer keep up the battle and killed herself. No one who knew her was surprised. When she was in her deepest misery, she was unrecognizable. 

The hardest part about being around her was you knew there was nothing you could do to help. "

 

and:
"Some people medicate accordingly, in an attempt to stay somewhat even. That pursuit can lead one down some dark paths. Someone who is an addict might not be an “addict” in the pejorative sense but merely trying to medicate and balance themselves."

that's where he hits on his own thing: starting a publishing company, acting, gruelling tours, weightlifting, etc - all in the name of getting some balance. when depression sinks one side of the balancing scale down hard, what do you do?

[LunaRufina]

If you listen to his rant on this without being familiar with his greater body of work, you'll probably get the wrong idea.  He's a punk rock philosopher of sorts with his own unique spin on the world, just like Jello Biafra...

 

Did you mean the rant on dating?

[Velvet Elvis]

Hey cipher, have you listened to much of Bob Mould's solo stuff by any chance?  His darker albums pair well with Rollins.  

 

 

If you listen to his rant on this without being familiar with his greater body of work, you'll probably get the wrong idea.  He's a punk rock philosopher of sorts with his own unique spin on the world, just like Jello Biafra...

 

Did you mean the rant on dating?

 

 

No, the suicide one about RW.

[Velvet Elvis]

Here's the full text of his statement on Williams.  I assumed OP had linked to that and not some idiot 3rd party journalism site:

Days after Robin Williams died, I kept seeing his face on the Internet. His death seemed to have a momentum of its own. It went from a sad death of a famous person to “a nation mourns” pitch, which I didn’t quite understand. Sites such as Huffington Post swim in their own brand of hyperbole. They call it news and culture, but often, it’s just content.

I understand why people feel Williams’ loss so intensely. His talent as an actor is not in dispute. His performance in Good Will Hunting is unimpeachable. I wonder if he was tapping into his own deep trench of personal pain to deliver some of those scenes. It was brave and excellent work. 

The more you think about it, the more you remember one great performance after another. Good Morning Vietnam is a favorite of mine.

When someone with this level of exposure dies in this way, it is confusing. An Oscar-winning actor, well-paid, with a career that most performers could only dream of — how could anyone so well regarded and seemingly fortunate have as much as even a single bad day, much less a life so unendurable that it has to be voluntarily voided?

On more than one of my USO tours, Robin Williams had been on the same stage a few days before me. That’s all I needed to know about him. As far as I was concerned, he was a good man. 

But it’s here where I step off the train. I am sure some will strongly disagree with what I’m about to say. And I also understand that his personal struggles were quite real. I can’t argue with that.

But I simply cannot understand how any parent could kill themselves. 

How in the hell could you possibly do that to your children? I don’t care how well adjusted your kid might be — choosing to kill yourself, rather than to be there for that child, is every shade of awful, traumatic and confusing. I think as soon as you have children, you waive your right to take your own life. No matter what mistakes you make in life, it should be your utmost goal not to traumatize your kids. So, you don’t kill yourself.

I know some people will disagree. And I get that you can’t understand anyone else’s torment. All that “I feel your pain” stuff is bullshit and disrespectful. You can appreciate it, listen and support someone as best you can, but you can’t understand it. Depression is so personal and so unique to each of us that when you’re in its teeth, you think you invented it. You can understand your own, but that’s it. When you are severely depressed, it can be more isolating than anything else you have ever experienced. In trying to make someone understand, you can only speak in approximation. You are truly on your own.

Everyone handles their emotional vicissitudes in their own ways. I am no doctor, but I think the brain is always looking for a sense of balance and normal function so the body can operate efficiently. Some people medicate accordingly, in an attempt to stay somewhat even. That pursuit can lead one down some dark paths. Someone who is an addict might not be an “addict” in the pejorative sense but merely trying to medicate and balance themselves.

Many years ago, I lived in Silver Lake with a housemate who suffered from severe bouts of depression. When she wasn’t in her small bedroom with the lights off, crying for hours, she was bright and hilarious. Anywhere we went, we laughed our asses off. She fought her depression with everything from bike rides to drugs, prescribed and otherwise. Years after the last time I saw her, I guess she could no longer keep up the battle and killed herself. No one who knew her was surprised. When she was in her deepest misery, she was unrecognizable. 

The hardest part about being around her was you knew there was nothing you could do to help. 

I get it, but then again, maybe I don’t.

When someone negates their existence, they cancel themselves out in my mind. I have many records, books and films featuring people who have taken their own lives, and I regard them all with a bit of disdain. When someone commits this act, he or she is out of my analog world. I know they existed, yet they have nullified their existence because they willfully removed themselves from life. They were real but now they are not.

I no longer take this person seriously. I may be able to appreciate what he or she did artistically but it’s impossible to feel bad for them. Their life wasn’t cut short — it was purposely abandoned. It’s hard to feel bad when the person did what they wanted to. It sucks they are gone, of course, but it’s the decision they made. I have to respect it and move on.

A few years ago, a guy I’d known for many years hanged himself in a basement. Weeks later, I went to the spot and picked up bits of plastic coating from the cord he used, which were on the floor after he was cut down. I liked the guy, but all I could think of then is all I can think of now — the drawings his kids had made that were pasted up on the walls of his kitchen.

Almost 40,000 people a year kill themselves in America, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In my opinion, that is 40,000 people who blew it.

Fuck suicide. Life isn’t anything but what you make it. For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there. 

I have life by the neck and drag it along. Rarely does it move fast enough. Raw Power forever.

 

That uproxx article makes no attempt to understand or explain where Rollins comes from with all of this and can fuck itself.

[LunaRufina]

Here's the full text of his statement on Williams.  I assumed OP had linked to that and not some idiot 3rd party journalism site:...

I don't know about anyone else on this thread, but that is what i actually read, as I followed the links to the original, and that's what I was responding to.

Maybe he did reveal in there that he does suffer from depression, so maybe I just missed it, but I didn't think he did.

What he wrote didn't make sense to me because it was repetitive but seemed to say different things using the same situation. It was bizarre and confusing. One of the reasons was, as i said, that I kept thinking he must be crazy, but he never said so... unless he stated so obviously and I missed it? [and I'm not being facetious, but it's entirely possible]

He respects peoples' decisions, but they no longer exist. Their struggles are real, but only real enough to tell them "life is what you make it". He goes on this spiel about a friend who took her own life, talking about when she was "in her deepest misery", and that the hardest part was knowing there was nothing you could do to help... and then decries that decision she made... even though he himself has stated "THERE WAS NOTHING YOU COULD DO TO HELP".

Yeah, it was ranty and confusing and a bit crazy.

It may have also, at the same time been eloquent and well written and made some good points... but when you made a bunch of opposing points in the same piece and recycle the examples? ...It can end up like a confusing, slightly crazed rant.

It's no wonder even the most open people may have been taken aback by it, without a lot of background knowledge of the author. One shouldn't have to do research to understand the point.

ETA: On another note? Agree that uproxx should generally take a moment out of each day to fuck itself.

Edited August 23, 2014 by LunaRufina

[Velvet Elvis]

It probably would have been better if it was printed in some indie publication and not LA Weekly.

[Level_With_Me]

Robin Williams seemed like a good man. Like with anyone no one knows what's behind the curtain. He could have been dealing with something harsh, but no one will understand suicide fully ever. We are not the judges, but yet we are the people being judged in the end .

[cipher]

henry does write for LA weekly on a regular basis...so it's basically a shitstorm that will calm down in time.
 

velvetelvis - thanks for the heads up - i'm a fan and familiar with bob mould - but i haven't listened to that album - more knew him for the earlier sugar, husker du stuff. there's a really great article about the album on rollingstone.

[tired tammy]

I had no idea what great opinions and ideas would be shared by posting the link to "The Rant". I am pretty familiar with Henry Rollins enough that I usually catch on pretty quickly when he is expressing himself, either on stage, on tv or through his writing. 

 

I actually saw him when he was still with Black Flag, and my daughter has a great picture of him when he did some book signings in Minneapolis. (She is smiling in the picture and he is frowning, a total unibrow sort of scowl) It often makes me laugh for some reason.

 

I guess we all have our shit, and Henry is no exception. It just took me by surprise when I first heard about his take on things since I know underneath his, "Don't fuck with me and I don't fuck with you" demeanor, he is actually pretty caring. (USO tours, LGBT rights, etc..)

 

Thanks again for the insightful comments!

Edited August 23, 2014 by tired tammy

[lysergia]

i can't say i agree with him on this one.  but i do have respect for him.  he DOES know crazy.  some of his poetry is among the most disturbing stuff i've ever read.  he's been through horrific childhood abuse, addiction, and mental health issues galore.  he is rageful and purposefully abrasive at times.  but he is also incredibly sensitive.
 
i remember him first from his musical endeavours, but i think the first spoken word (and maybe the most famous) i ever heard was this one - it might provide a little more context:

http://youtu.be/Ba-A6Z7HOTw

[crtclms]

 

[nonuser]

I have no problem with Rollins expressing his opinion. And I agree suicide should not be glamorized in any respect. But I would not condemn some one who does check out. It's impossible to really know what was going on in Robin Williams mind his finally days. How much pain he was in. It only takes a moment of weakness to make the wrong decession.

 

 

 

 

This

Edited August 24, 2014 by larali

[Equivilency]

He doesn't understand the mental anguish that can occur with depression.. sometimes your in so much mental pain you just want to end it. That being said Williams had a drug problem. Which was probably making his mental illness even worse. Did the drug problem or mental illness come first? Who knows. I say he has a right to end his own life. I think his method of suicide reveals the amount of pain he was in. 

[Velvet Elvis]

i can't say i agree with him on this one.  but i do have respect for him.  he DOES know crazy.  some of his poetry is among the most disturbing stuff i've ever read.  he's been through horrific childhood abuse, addiction, and mental health issues galore.  he is rageful and purposefully abrasive at times.  but he is also incredibly sensitive.

 

i remember him first from his musical endeavours, but i think the first spoken word (and maybe the most famous) i ever heard was this one - it might provide a little more context:

http://youtu.be/Ba-A6Z7HOTw

 

It's been nearly 20 years since I heard that.  It still puts a lump in my throat.   Thanks.

[Velvet Elvis]

Henry Rollins, William Shatner, and Adrian Belew, produced by Ben Folds.

 

[tired tammy]

Henry Rollins, William Shatner, and Adrian Belew, produced by Ben Folds.

 

I knew about William Shatner and Henry Rollins friendship but I had no idea Adrian Belew and Ben Folds were in involved in the Album! Hilarious! 

 

On a side note, one of my friends from college used to work at the grocery store where Adrian Belew shopped so she saw him a few times a week...small world.

[kateislate]

I find it difficult when someone I usually respect comes up with just...crap. Not that I follow Henry Rollins, but I gather that some people here do, and I'm sympathizing.

I agree with Luna - it's basically nonsensical. And moralizing. And callous. I don't know why he brought up his friend except to say "some of my best friends were depressed suicides, so I know what I'm talking about." He doesn't.

I do like that it doesn't romanticize suicide, and who the hell knows - it might actually deter a copycat. But you can rant about suicides going to Hell and have the same effect, and I'm still going to think you're just a fool.

[LunaRufina]

I find it difficult when someone I usually respect comes up with just...crap. Not that I follow Henry Rollins, but I gather that some people here do, and I'm sympathizing.

I agree with Luna - it's basically nonsensical. And moralizing. And callous. I don't know why he brought up his friend except to say "some of my best friends were depressed suicides, so I know what I'm talking about." He doesn't.

I do like that it doesn't romanticize suicide, and who the hell knows - it might actually deter a copycat. But you can rant about suicides going to Hell and have the same effect, and I'm still going to think you're just a fool.

 

After reading the second link posted in this thread- where he posted something on his blog- I then responded a second time. It made more sense that he responded how he did. I also said he probably felt pretty awful. He mentioned he recieved a lot of letters and he must have received a lot of letters from the assumption that he had no idea what it is like to feel depression personally.  

 

Given such a heated, provocative subject, and his equal original statement/opinion... I can only think that it must have felt pretty fucking shitty to read those letters from the people who had that assumption.

 

Part of his entry:

 

 

I have had a life of depression. Some days are excruciating. Knowing what I know and having been through what I have, I should have known better but I obviously did not. I get so mad when I hear that someone has died this way. Not mad at them, mad at whatever got them there and that no one magically appeared to somehow save them.

[kateislate]

Well you can't beat someone up after an apology like that.

But Luna, I read your second post pretty much the same way I read your first. Must be too late at night or something.

[Sloane]

 

 

I know some people will disagree. And I get that you can’t understand anyone else’s torment. All that “I feel your pain” stuff is bullshit and disrespectful. You can appreciate it, listen and support someone as best you can, but you can’t understand it. Depression is so personal and so unique to each of us that when you’re in its teeth, you think you invented it. You can understand your own, but that’s it. When you are severely depressed, it can be more isolating than anything else you have ever experienced. In trying to make someone understand, you can only speak in approximation. You are truly on your own.

^From the original "Fuck Suicide" Post^

 

I resonate with this all too well, and this is way too personal to not "get" crazy. I followed the original post quite well (it being because it's 1:30 AM or I'm a fan, IDK).

 

And no matter what kind of crazy - diagnosed or not, medicated or not - you are entitled to an opinion about suicide. Whether if anyone agrees with it or finds it 'suitable' is obsolete. Suicide is an extremely personal and triggering topic. Especially to those of us who have either dealt with the thoughts, or have had someone close made that decision against our wishes.

 

I myself disagree with his opinion completely. We are all human, even parents (shocking I know). And even though having children gives you extra responsibilities and even meaning, it doesn't make you any less susceptible to mental illness or pain, and it does not make you any more med compliant or therapy manageable.

 

However his opinion is based on his personal experiences, his personal feelings, and his observations of close friends and colleagues. His opinion is valid, just like mine is. Just like everyone's personal opinions are valid. He speaks some of what I relate to, and some of what I don't. And he speaks quite passionately.

 

<rant>

I am actually more pissed off about walking through stores and seeing that "Robin Williams had a brain tumor! it wasn't mental illness that caused him to commit suicide!! you can stop hating him now!!" CRAP plastered on gossip magazine covers. Not people having mixed feelings and opinions on suicide. Because we ALL do. It's more important that we discuss all the opinions of suicide that we ourselves and loved ones have, and all the options we have and makes sure those options for mental health are available, versus pretending that nothing exists like those counter productive gossip magazines.

</rant>

[guest_hamster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMLv1MWKrso

 

One of his finer moments. The sheer energy at his shows was incredible