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Hypersensitivity to Medication. How to treat it.

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Greetings. Long story short, I've had a number of medications work for my bi polar, but their side effects have been so high, even on itty bitty doses, that I couldn't tolerate them for more then a few days. And yes, I know it worked for me, because the way my body metabolizes medications, I get the effects within a day. But so I also do with the side effects, and for whatever reason, they are way more amplified then they would be for normal bi polar people. Thus, I'm down to one medication that is 'working' for me. I said working for me because while it does treat my bi polar, I'm essentially disabled. I'm on Tegretol on 400 xr  and just this small dose gives me mental cloudiness to the point where I can't work or go to school, so pretty much disabled. Even physical things are somewhat difficult to do. I know mental cloudiness to be a side effect of Tegretol, but most do not experience it anywhere close to the point of literally not being able to go to work or school because of it. And may I remind you, I'm on 400 xr? Nor can I go any lower, otherwise it becomes non therapeutic.

At any rate,  I'm getting my DNA tested (CytocromP450 , genetic path ways  2D6, 2C9, 2C19 for any science guys out there) to show how I metabolize medications, and hopefully with that, show whether I metabolize them too slow or too quick, in hopes that if we alter the metabolization of say tegretol by adding another medication to slow it down or speed it up, perhaps the side effects can be diminished or lowered significantly at least in theory. Oddly enough, I don't have issues with ADHD medications, of which I also am diagnosed with, at all. I mean, I take low doses of it, but essentially, I'm fine on ADHD meds, as long as I take it with a mood stabilizer of course, because I do have bi polar, but other wise, I'm fine. I am pretty sensitive to medications overall, though with bi polar meds, it seems to be at it's most 'intense' when it comes to hyper sensitivity. Like crazy intense. 


Anyways, question. Has anyone ever dealt with this before?  Has anyone been THIS HYPERSENSITIVE to medication? Let alone medication you need to survive? How did you treat it? What did you do? Did it work slowing down or speed up the metabolization of that certain medication? Did you get side effects from the med you took to try to speed up/decrease the other med? 


Please, someone tell me they know some whom this worked for. I fear that because of my hyper sensitivity to these meds, I'll be stuck with tegretol and not being able to work for the rest of my life... and I'm only 23 for universe's sake!


ps: Going off meds doesn't work. Tried it. 


Psps: List of medications for bi polar I've tried that didn't work- 




















Am I missing anything? That's pretty much it, label, and off label. There may be some other ones hidden in the closets of way back in time during psychiatry, but whatever they give me, I'm going to be hypersensitive too in all reality. So The plan has to be to treat the metabolization of medications



BTW -none of these was I able for more then 3-4 days due to the extreme side effects, on baby doses mind you. And please don't be an ignorant asshole and tell me, "If you want to survive, you'll take em for longer". A) I can't because I have a hypersensitivity issue. The side effects get so bad so quick, I can't leave my bed if I don't stop taking them, essentially I'm put on bed rest. B) If I didn't want to survive, I wouldn't be writing this, and instead, using my laptop charger as rope to hang myself and the lap top it self to smack you across the forehead. So please, understand. :)

Edited by Reza23
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I found your post to be very interesting!  I did not know that certain people could be genetically more hyper-sensitive to medication or that there were ways to detect the hyper-sensitivity.  I really feel bad for you.  

I read your list and I am not an expert but i can't think of any other drugs or kinds of drugs that one would try.  

I am looking at Aricept (spelling?) for myself which is a drug to treat Alzheimer's.  I don't have Alzheimer's but my one psychiatrist said it can help people who have some cognitive impairment from their Antipsychotic drugs.    Sometimes there are drugs that have off-label uses for different things.  

I also just realized you didn't mention Gabapentin aka Neurontin which is for seizures but also can be used for mood issues or anxiety.  

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It doesn't find sensitivities, it finds metabolism rates. If you are someone who doesn't metabolize enough medication to receive its benefits, you are the opposite of hypersensitive to something.


I'm not saying you are or aren't hypersensitive, but that is not what the tests look for. For instance, I under-metabolize Lamictal. I am technically at the highest dose for BP (400mg), but at the threshold of a therapeutic blood level. Therefore I need to take *more,* not less lamictal.


Have you had a brain injury, or do you have seizures?

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um yeah, not impressed by the "ignorant retard" thing.  just go ahead and say "don't be an asshat".  pick some words that aren't slurs typically lobbed at someone suffering cognitive or developmental difficulties.  remember, if you're experiencing "brain fog", then someone else might well call you a "retard" too for not being all that sharp.


as for the rest of your post, yeah you'll meet folks here with some strange reactions to certain meds (or many meds), including myself, and maybe even someone(s) who experience what you do.  you're not alone in that.


it would help more if you were to be specific about which particular side effects from each medication you're talking about, since they are as wide and varied as the drugs themselves.  i'm sure you didn't get EVERY side effect from EVERY drug (for example, you can't be constipated and have diarrhea at the same time, yet both of these can be common side effects of the same drug).  there could be a pattern to which side effects you've encountered, and that could lead to some different options you and your doc haven't discussed yet.  that pattern probably isn't going to show itself through DNA testing (in my opinion, not a doctor).


have you seen a psychopharmacologist?  when so many different drugs have been impossible to tolerate, a specialist with that much more information can be extremely helpful (it is for me currently).

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So, I'm going to be the "fucking retard" here and say what others have said on your previous post already: having severe side effects on very low starter doses does not necessarily mean that you will have such severe side effects, or even any side effects at all, once the target dose is reached. The body gets used to medication, but it takes longer than three days. I've had very severe side effects (drowsiness, loss of coordination, severe tremors, sleepiness....) when starting both Seroquel and Lithium for at least 2 weeks, and I ended up tolerating both of them fine. That doesn't mean all side effects go away, but some can and do.


Ignorant retard out.......


PS: oh, prophylactically insulting people that might disagree with you is a really classy move.....

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And please don't be an ignorant retard

I gotta say, my friend, I was feeling for you until this comment. As someone who has a cousin who would be considered mentally retarded, I'm really offended and put off.

I wish you luck, but please don't be ignorant and cruel to make your point.

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First thing, I apologize for the 'ignorant retard' comment. I have great empathy for people who suffer from this condition, which my fate, as horrible as it is, will never compare to... and I'm sorry to those who I have offended. I went ahead and edited that out. 


Now on to my point. Well, I hope the DNA test will show something... however, I have heard that hyper sensitivity can be treated by increasing/decreasing the metabolism of the medication. Not from my doctor perse, but someone who I see that works in the field. Either way, it's kind of a last shot sort of thing. I think the DNA test will at least give us perhaps some clue's... and will confirm my thinking that my enzymes aren't properly metabolizing these medications. If anything, it'll show us or rule that possibility out. If it shows that I'm a poor metabolizer, which I believe to be, then there's a possibility that increasing/decreasing the metabolization rate might make a difference... I'll find out more tomorrow, the results should be in. Like I said, either way, I don't have much options left... so I'm going to increase or decrease the metabolism of tegretol either way to see what happens even if the results show nothing. 


Thirdly, the side effects I get from these meds are essentially all neurological. Mainly it's an 'agitated' feeling. Extreme agitation... some of them suicidal... some of them I feel like a zombie/dead (anti psychotics in particular), and that pretty much sums it up. Actually, this is quite a good point, thank you for bringing it up. The 'sensation' is always a sort of extremely agitated, angry, upset, slightly or more so suicidal sort of feeling... but nonetheless, essentially always neurological, and similar might I add... hmmmm. My doctor also suggested that perhaps it could be the way my neurons or neurol pathways work (some 'shit' like that), therefore nothing to do with the whole enzyme and metabolizing theory.. which is scary, though I still am hoping to get something out of this metabolism/DNA crusade, but your point further shows that this may be a neurological thing.... Therefore leading me to ask, what the hell do I do about that? If anyone knows. 


Fourth-  To the "ignorant retard", or rachel, I don't put people down for their opinions nor did I suggest that. I suggested that when someone presumes that I'm lacking the will to get better, and if I want to get better, I'll take the meds, of which I simply can't tolerate because I'm hypersensitive like a madafaka and which I stated before. In that case, they're not only being very ignorant, but down right disrespectful

 I can't be on it for longer then those days. I've tried multiple doses of each medication, multiple times. Doesn't work. And if I go too low, I don't feel the therapeutic value.  And like I said, I feel the meds working QUICK. And my doctor confirmed that for people who are hypersensitive like me, we can feel the meds working QUICK. And the whole thing about 'sticking' with it... it only gets worst with time. If I could stick on it, I would of. I've taken off semesters from school and even work to just focus on 'forcing' myself to be on these meds. Doesn't work.Unless I want to physically harm myself and put myself through a massive amount of torture, I can't. But thank you for sharing your opinion. 


At anyrate, thanks for responding guys, means a lot, even with my ignorant remark on the mentally handicap.


It's upsetting to me that someone as promising as me, with my intelligence, has to deal with these sorts of conditions while I see people who are half as bright as me around my age soaring past me... some nights, I want to just slit my throat. (Don't worry, I'm just expressing, not going to harm myself) But seriously, I just wonder, why me?.... I mean what if I can't work ever? What if I'm going to be stuck on tegretol forever? Yes, I can survive the bi polar by being on tegretol... but what kind of life will I have? Will I have my girlfriend staying with me? Will I be fulfilled in life? The kind of difference I want to make in the world, will never be achieved by me... I just really want to kill myself. Just rid myself of all this. There, I said it. Like I said, I'm not going to harm myself, so don't call 911 on me, I just want to express how I feel somewhere where people might actually listen. I really just want to blow my brains out. I mean, why, why... wasn't the bi polar enough, universe? Wasn't the severe adhd enough? How about the severe OCD that has crippled me with relationships.... that in fact just got me into a fight with my girlfriend right before this... I mean wasn't this stuff enough? Now, I can barely functions because on top of all this SHIT, I'm hyper sensitive such that the only medication that works, cognitively dulls me to the point where I can't work/go to school... takes my greatest gift away, my ability to communicate, influence, listen to, coach, speak, etc. Too be honest, I may end my life if at age 30 (7 years from now), I'm in a situation where I can't work or go to school... perhaps sooner then that, 5 years from now. That's a good time frame. Don't give me the heaven/hell crap, that ain't real. What is real is choosing whether I want to play the severely detrimental and heinously horrible cards I've been dealt with... or fold. It's already been a miserable and grueling 3 years of dealing with this (I'm 23, and my bi polar began at 20), but I've also dealt with ADHD/OCD my whole life. Though nothing like when the bi polar began... as I didn't require meds before, though now I do as well as the episodes... I'm just tired of it all.. just tired. I have more to give. I have more to push. I still have a drive. I have a heart beat. Though I wonder for how much longer?...  I suppose 5 years is a good enough time frame.


 I'm in a suicidal/depressive state already before this, so perhaps what I'm saying is merely in the moment and just wanting to get my depressive feelings out, though I wonder what will happen if this metabolizing thing doesn't work out and I fall flat of any other meds because of this hypersensitivity issue, and am stuck on tegretol...


For now I suppose, lets what happens tomorrow with the results and the whole metabolizing issue. 

Edited by Reza23
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I have great contempt for people who suffer from this condition, which my fate, as horrible as it is, will never compare to... and I'm sorry to those who I have offended. I went ahead and edited that out.

I am not sure this is better... I mean, even if you didn't mean contempt, it is implying it is the worst thing ever. I understand you are probably not malicious but it is kind of unnecessary. sorry I am picking at your apology but it is kind of a similar underlaying thing.

I hope you get some hints from the testing.

I am curious if you've tried anticholinergics or propranolol or other akathisia drugs for the agitated type responses.

Edited by evilnessness
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evil has a good question there - have you tried the medications that specifically target agitation or akathisia at the same time?


also, how many of these medications were monotherapy?  how many were tried in combination with each other?


how closely has your physical health been studied while you have been symptomatic?  i can have hugely different reactions from medications just because my thyroid is behaving badly.  there are hundreds of ways hormonal and other conditions can affect the way our illness presents, and the way we tolerate medication.  insist that someone take a thorough look, more than once, at your physical functioning.  


you seem pretty sure that your issues are "neurological", but unless you have a portable fMRI you keep at home where you can interpret differences in neurological activity at each dose of each med, there's no way you can make that assumption.  actually, my biggest piece of advice (take it or leave it) would be to stop assuming anything.  trust me - i've been doing what you're doing now for seventeen years.  i'm not saying blindly follow whatever you're told - but i am saying be VERY VERY WARY of deciding you know what the issues are when it comes to meds.


and again, i am going to recommend that if nothing physical shows itself, a psychopharmacologist is your most likely ticket to finding out what the common thread is, if your psychiatrists have not been able to determine that themselves.  they have the latest and most comprehensive results of studies that never even get to the average psychiatrist for ten years (if at all).


re: the DNA thing - here at CB, you will find that most of us will not take a test, medication, or "finding" seriously when it does not come from a doctor or have several peer-reviewed studies we can review.  so when you say you are acting on information that isn't coming from someone we know MUST follow stringent scientific or medical guidelines in order to make a claim, most people here are going to tell you RUN.  not because we all love Big Pharma and its perfectly ethical ways (ha), but because if you were to start a thread and ask, you'd hear from dozens of people who were made promises by quasi-professional mental health "specialists" who claimed they knew the answer - and were duped out of their money, health, and time spent still being sick.


i do empathize with your struggle.  i have lost so many things in life i will never get back because after seventeen years of trying countless meds and combinations, i'm still here typing so that i can ignore the constant train in my head that says "today is the day to die, right?".  it SUCKS.  it might feel shocking at first to hear that your situation is not unusual or cause for great alarm.  that doesn't mean we don't care or don't take what you are saying seriously.  it means that there are MANY of us.  and that we all are going through the same process of trial and error, over and over and over.  we have successes, and failures, we have meds that work great for six months and then never work again (making us more devastated than before), we have meds that give us symptoms we never had to begin with (making us want to give up on meds altogether), we have promise after promise that this next medication will be the right one (making us question our health care providers).  and all we can do is be honest about what we are experiencing and keep trying what we are being asked to try (even if that means getting a second or third opinion before trying).


and for the most part, that's all we can do.  we can be informed patients (to the best of our abilities).  we can share our experiences and ask each other questions and lean on each other while we go through this horrible process that has no guarantees.  and sometimes, we DO finally find that right med, or that right combination, or the right therapist, and things DO get better - and not just for six months.  there are people here who were ill most of their lives until finding their elusive treatment success - and they haven't been ill since.  but there are also a lot of people who didn't get the easy route where that first or second med was the right one and it made everything better, and that's why we're here.  we're here because we all thought we were special snowflakes that couldn't ever get well.  and then we found each other here, thousands of us.  and we learned how to keep living even though nothing is working, because we have to.  and when we lose faith that anything ever will work, we're all here to remind each other to keep trying anyway.  because the alternative sucks.


that's my hypergraphic way of telling you the answers are out there, you don't have them yet and they probably aren't coming from DNA tests, and stick around to get to know some of us who have been going through this forever so you can learn how to hang on and "enjoy the ride" (ha ha) even when the meds are failing miserably.

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at evilness- Sorry, contempt wasn't the right word. The word I meant to communicate was empathy. 



To lysergia- Thank you. I feel a lot better after reading that. I'm better now then tonight as well, but reading what you said made a difference. On your points


-The 'I don't know' attitude is one which I will thoroughly adopt and use. Your right, you never know what may be behind the corner...


-I will contact a pharmacologist next. In fact I'll start looking for one right after this. 


-I do believe the DNA testing will show/give some clues of to why I'm responding to the meds the way I do


- I will bring up the hormone thing with my doctor as well. 


I'm just really tired, and it's one thing to have to suffer pain, but as a man, not being able to work?... Come on... I mean, I can't take that. Being jobless, forever? And if your physically handicapped , it's one thing, you can still get on a computer and do things. But when it comes to mental impairment on a medication you HAVE to be on... that's the worst. I don't know if I can take it forever... but your point on never knowing what' next gives me optimism. 


In fact, your point reminds me of about a year ago, when I began experiencing the worst motivational loss I have ever felt in my life. Keep in mind, I'm new to bi polar as it fully showed up only 3 years ago. In VA, last winter was one of the coldest winters ever here, like ever! As soon as it got cold, I began losing all motivation. I barely finished my semester in school. However, that's all I could do. Barely worked out. Didn't care what I ate. And when night fall came, I couldn't go out AT ALL. Spent 3 months pretty much locked up in my room... I had never ever felt anything like this before. Oddly enough, my 'mood' was stable, it was just my motivation.... and it was completely biological, as I had nothing going on in my personal life to feel like this about. It had nothing to do with the meds, as I had been on them for a while, even tried changing them up, and nothing worked. Then my doctor gave me anti-depressants, which didn't work. And I really wasn't depressed... it was motivation. Nothing worked. I was horrified. I couldn't go out and party, didn't have sex for months, and saw my self as a slave to the winter and my fucked up condition... I envisioned how every winter I'd be going through this from now on (given my bi polar is new and how in the winter, our moods/state is sensitive because of the cold) and plotted to quit school early just so I could move to California or somewhere warm, not caring about what kind of job I got, so as long I could escape the wintry hell... 

When one day in mid January, after 3 months of this shit, and totally missing out on the holidays, I tried a simple diet out to help me function better, not knowing it would be the 'cure' for this disease of loss of motivation I was experiencing... I cut out all processed sugar, caffeine, and alcohol... And within 5 days, I was back to normal! I could go out, and do stuff again! I had my motivation back! I literally felt like I had escaped shawshank prison... and plotted to go to mexico and start a new life! hahaha. The diet didn't cure my bi polar, but it gave back my motivation. I have since learned that when 'winter is coming', my motivation is extremely sensitive do to the cold, so I have to be careful and limit my caffeine, sugar, and alcohol consumption during that period. I have to watch out for my state as well as these things do also make me depressed during those months, but it seems my motivation takes the biggest hit.  

The most surprising thing about this is how I figured this out myself. No dr. told me to go on this diet. He didn't know what to do. Nor did my therapist. I don't know if they didn't care, but there was this sense of, 'hmm, well, though one buddy, good luck!'... and kinda think of it, perhaps I need to replace my therapist? Not sure he cares enough... 

At any rate, point being, I figured this out myself! And in fact, it was by accident! The craziest part about this was it was by accident! I wasn't trying to find a solution for the motivational issue during the winter, it was just for something else, yet I accidentally found it through this diet. So, I suppose you are correct. And I feel like I can figure this out as well. Or I'll die trying... 

Edited by Reza23
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i feel you on the not being able to work, even though i'm not a man (i can't comment on how it does or doesn't feel different as a result of cultural expectations, as i've only ever been a woman).  but i'm 44, with no job and no ability to hold on to one.  i started this mess at the very beginning of a promising academic career - the last three jobs i attempted were pouring coffee, and being crazy got me fired/"laid off" from all of them.  i have no income and am totally dependent on my husband.  it makes me feel worthless.  i was once a very very independent person.  now i can't even keep the most meagre roof over my head.


there's a lot of adjusting expectations and measuring self worth in different ways involved in living with mental illness.


that is really awesome that you figured out the diet thing!  upon reflection i was a bit rigid in implying that we should never come to our own conclusions, especially when they present themselves as spectacularly as they have with you and what happens in winter.  noticing what makes you feel better or worse in different ways is so very important.  because some of this we really can influence if we pay attention.  some of us are highly influenced by what we eat, or what season it is, or how much exercise we get, or how often we see other people - all things that we are in charge of, not a doctor or a prescription.  when those dark cold months begin here, i don't modify my diet, but i do start taking vitamin D3 and using a light box for a half hour every day.  


i had one of those accidental discoveries not long ago myself.  i was becoming convinced i was going to have to start taking something for acid reflux as i was experiencing nausea every day for several weeks, and i blamed it on my meds (since it has happened before).  then i ran out of my calcium supplement, and didn't bother replacing it right away.  after a week i wasn't sick anymore.  it was the calcium!  i wasn't trying to solve the problem myself either but i did anyway.  those discoveries are golden - not having to go to the doctor to try to fix one more thing is the BEST.  


i'm so glad you've found a way to keep some motivation during the cold months - that's a tall order.  i'm also glad you have the dedication to follow through on what you need to do to feel well - lots of us know that if we could leave the coffee alone, or the wine, or the cookies, that we'd be better off, but we just can't bring ourselves to turn down the small pleasures.  i know that if i can find a way to continue to exercise after it's too cold to walk comfortably outdoors, i will also maintain more motivation - but whether or not i do so is a coin toss every year.  so be proud of yourself for making the hard choices.  being able to do so will carry you very far, even through all the frustration of trying to figure out how to medicate this mental illness beast into submission.

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i feel you on the not being able to work, even though i'm not a man (i can't comment on how it does or doesn't feel different as a result of cultural expectations, as i've only ever been a woman).  but i'm 44, with no job and no ability to hold on to one.  i started this mess at the very beginning of a promising academic career - the last three jobs i attempted were pouring coffee, and being crazy got me fired/"laid off" from all of them.  i have no income and am totally dependent on my husband.  it makes me feel worthless.  i was once a very very independent person.  now i can't even keep the most meagre roof over my head.


Ugh, me too!  Can't hold a job either, only I'm 46 and I only have myself to rely on. I'm a single mom, and I get help with the very basic bills, but I'm going under!



In fact, your point reminds me of about a year ago, when I began experiencing the worst motivational loss I have ever felt in my life. Keep in mind, I'm new to bi polar as it fully showed up only 3 years ago. In VA, last winter was one of the coldest winters ever here, like ever! As soon as it got cold, I began losing all motivation. I barely finished my semester in school. However, that's all I could do. Barely worked out. Didn't care what I ate. And when night fall came, I couldn't go out AT ALL. Spent 3 months pretty much locked up in my room... I had never ever felt anything like this before. 


You might consider that it's not the cold that created this, but a drop in Vitamin D from there being less sun.  My pdoc tested me for Vitamin D and I was very low, then I heard that people with depression are often deficient in it.  You could try using a lightbox, which will naturally produce Vitamin D in you (someone in one of my groups just got one for $25 on ebay), or take supplements, but I would have your Dr. test you first to find out how much you need.

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To lysergia- Hey, there's a certain innate instinctual need for men to 'work' and 'hunt and gather' so to say, as it's been passed down since the dawn of our species many years ago... perhaps I ought to find how other men in similar stances cope with it. I don't think it has to do with cultural expectations as far as working feels for men. Though I'd say a lot of cultural expectation has been put on women to work, and honestly, I don't find it the same nor do many others, even some feminist authors are now telling women to focus on their social lives/friends/family and get that 'solid' as well as their relationships with men as innately, evolution has made us a certain way, and just because this new 'culture' is different then the thousands and thousands of different cultures before it, evolutionary psychology, of which I find the most truth it given it's based on looking the past, and making sense of our thinking through how our ancestors behaved, makes the most sense due to how evolution takes a LONG time to change. Our minds, are adapted for a different time many argue, and in my world, makes the most rational sense when comparing situations just 20 thousand years ago, why we did things, and why we do things now. I urge you to take a look. 


Nonetheless, I feel you on the 'worthless' feeling. I definitely connect with you there. And perhaps what is cultural and needs to change is the way mental health is treated. It's not looked at as a 'physical' condition by most, but some 'psychological' laziness that someone needs to just 'shake' themselves out of. Which really upsets me. 


Yeah, I got lucky there finding that solution to the problem. Very lucky. It upset me how my doctors/therapist didn't figure it out... cuz I had gone to them for advice, and they couldn't figure it out. Yet simply by altering my diet I changed my life during the winter/fall months? It was amazing. I think curiosity is our best friend and best ally here. We have to be curious and search for the answers. I searched for an answer for something else, and it turned out to be the answer for this problem. I suppose pretty cool. On that note, I will say, when your back's against the wall, when your put in a situation like me where when the winter hit, I lost almost all motivation, I wasn't able to leave my house essentially, no going out and socializing, not many friends, no dates, no girlfriend at the time which it made it even harder, not working, barely finished school, no going to the gym, couldn't get myself to work out, and almost all the time asked my brothers to go get my medication from the local giant store in my neighborhood only a 1 minute drive away, when you get that low, you'll do anything to get out of it. So, sugar was really hard to cut out, harder then caffeine, or alcohol, but I knew I had to. Ever since, I'm extremely careful on sugar, even on my 'cheat days'. Though now that "winter is coming" (lol for my GOT fans), I will cut out sugar/caffeine for good, and rarely drink alcohol socially.   Oh, and a piece of advice on the cutting out part, don't think that your 'superman' and can do anything. If you want to truly cut something out, you have to remove yourself from it or alter your environment. For example, I told my parents and family, if they were to buy cookies, they MUST hide them, or I will throw them away. Yes, I did say that. Because I had no control over myself when I saw those cookies. Especially being on seroquel at the time. It compounded the wintry effects. Maybe you won't go as extreme as me, but you need to remove the 'threat' so to say from your environment or tell the people living there to hide them from you so you don't see them. Don't trust yourself in the moment to do the right thing unless you've built it in as a habit. Even then I'd be careful because of our very sensitive moods. If I'm in a depressive state, even if I have a habit down, I may eat those cookies, though not as much due to my habit, but it could start a chain reaction... then I eat again tomorrow, and then again, and then again, and bam! Next thing you know you got a cookie eating habit back! So, alter your environment, to make it natural for you to achieve your goal! And focus on one goal at a time for 21-30 days. So say you cut out just sugar for the next 21-30 days. Nothing else. No other behavioral changes. That's it. Just dropping 'artificial sugars', fruit is ok, will make such a huge difference in 30 days. And the rest of your life. You can do it!


To ecentrik- you have a good point. I shall monitor my vitamin D levels. Though I must say, the cold really depresses me. And since I don't care about buying clothes often, I always feel under prepared for the army of the cold and hate leaving the house for it. Every time I do, I feel the cold stealing my soul...  though I suppose I rather get going with shopping and be ready for it. So I do feel like it's more then the vitamin D, though that being said, I will monitor that. 

Edited by Reza23
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Reza23, Were you the owner of the house when you were throwing out other people's food? That might count as a real but horrible excuse for what you did.


Somehow, from the larger context, I doubt that is what is happening here. Jettisoning others' belongings is theft, is hostile, is rude (why am I surprised?), and is spectacularly self-centered. I hope you paid them back. Please use you horrific impulse control to reimburse those you rooked with your "instructions".


"I'm going to change something, so you are ordered to do as I do. Else I will punish you." Lovely.



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As a staff member, I'm appalled by your comments. What is this some personal vendetta? (why am I not surprised) What's that supposed to mean you rude, might I say, BITCH?


Do you not have anything useful to say? You should be ashamed at yourself putting up some hateful and nasty comment as a 'staff' member... how dare you?


And as for the point, for which you idiotically took out of context, and of which I mentioned was something that was extreme, and one needed NOT be as extreme as I was, if you want to quote that for me, that be great,  though  I do live with my family, so I can afford to tell them something like that. I'd rather not commit suicide or get farther into depression in the deep wintry months of which I am so vulnerable on, and when something like a couple cookies can lead me down a road of hell/depression... and if you've ever been on Seroquel during that time, or any time, you'll know how EASILY your mind tricks you into taking sugar, particularly during a time like that. So yeah, I can afford to make a 'threat' like that, given I live with my family. My health and well being are more important then their 10 seconds of satisfaction from their cookies. Besides, they don't really know what it's like to be in that state... and from the sound of it, you don't either given the way you just replied to me. 


That or your on your period... for which I really feel for you, I do. 

Edited by Reza23
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okay Reza, this is where i stop with the attempts at diplomacy.



crtclms was not out of line to suggest that enforcing your choices on others is abusive - no matter what the reason.  it's really, REALLY unfairly manipulative of you to say "do what i want because if you don't i might DIE and then it would be all your fault".  no, you won't die from eating a damned cookie.  or the whole bag (unless you're diabetic).  i don't care that it's your family.  i have a family, too.  i went on a diet this spring to lose twenty pounds i gained on latuda.  did i tell my family what they were and were not allowed to eat?  no.  was i still able to lose weight?  yes.  and if i hadn't?  it would not be their fault.


and btw, i'm staff too - just retired staff.  did you assume some sort of personal vendetta when i said i didn't approve of your use of ableist slurs?  what does being staff have to do with sharing an opinion about something you publicly wrote for all to comment on?  staff aren't just here to be police.  we're members first.


second: okay enough with the misogyny now.


calling someone a bitch and then implying that they must be "on their period" is just NOT EVEN CLOSE TO OKAY, no matter who you're talking to.  you've just shown your true colours with this one.  a lot of people make a mistake with the "retard" language without truly meaning harm.  your ideas about women are HARMFUL and your behaviour (that is, the words you choose) are abhorrent.  


and something tells me you aren't going to apologize for assuming what paid work means to women either.  in my post i told you i couldn't assume your experience - but you went right ahead and told me what mine was, and it was so far away from reality that i don't even know where to start.  do you know what evolution really means, let alone the subset of information we call evolutionary psychology?  do you know the basics of anthropology, or sociology?  because i have a vagina does not mean i am better equipped to stay home and care for babies while you hunt and gather. (did you really just say that?).  and then to pat me on the head and say there there, yes you must feel worthless too because you can't earn the money you need to feed yourself - which is it?  is my need for autonomy equal to yours, or not?  i guess if i "looked into it" and educated myself as you have (ahem) i might be happier having realized i don't need all that, my apron is already right here in the kitchen so i don't need to go anywhere.  because 20 000 years ago it worked that way and hey you were there and have a basis for comparison, right?  oh yeah, i forgot, if we were living then i'd be dead by now because we didn't even LIVE long enough to be concerned about whether or not we were going to kill ourselves.



yes i know about if you don't want to eat the cookies, don't have them in the house.  so does everyone else.  i'm talking about what happens to our decision making process as a consequence of depression, not our "will power".  you know that you can suffer from motivational problems even though you aren't "lazy" - you have said so yourself.  as depressed people we can (and often do) suffer from problems with using external substances (like sugar, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, et cetera) to help us through the desperation when we feel we cannot wait for the long, excruciating time it takes for an episode to resolve or meds to improve things.  this doesn't mean we're stupid or lack willpower.  it means we're depressed and desperate.  just like your inability to do what you need to do means you're depressed.  or does it?  maybe you are just lazy. (doesn't feel good to have someone assume that about you, does it?).


i tried really hard to reach out to you because although you were very off-putting, you were also suffering in a way i could understand.  i thought that if we could find that common ground, you would come to understand how our community works, and understand the basic respect for each other involved in giving and receiving help here.  lots of members start out offending people, then learning, then coming to an understanding that by following a few simple rules, we can help each other in ways our doctors are never able to.


i'm having regrets now that i spent that time and effort, because i see what happens the first time you are challenged by someone you perceive has authority over you (and is female, coincidence?).  if inside of one thread i feel the need to speak up both in defense of people with intellectual challenges and then in defense of the (larger) half of the planet with whom you do not share similar genitalia, i feel as though i have wasted my time trying to intimate the finer points of psychiatric treatment.  if you can't grasp that gender is not a reason to discredit another human being, no wonder you believe you'll be cured by a travelling salesman with access to a DNA lab.


good luck with that.

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