Trying to get off Klonopin (clonazepam)

[MEexpat]

I have been suffering for more than two years, first from depression and panic disorder.

 

Prescribed with Rivotril or Klonopin.  Happy during the 2 years, then I developed tolerance.  Taking higher dosage seems to exacerbate my situation (mentally and emotionally).  So decided to get off, tried and failed 15 times.  After that, finally able to go along with smooth tapering from 1 mg to 0.5 mg.  

 

So much withdrawal symptoms along the way.

 

And presently lifeless.

 

Hoping to find tips from "battle-hardened" human beings in this site.  

 

It seems to me that the members in this site are the most afflicted or devastated (i cannot find a word to describe it).

 

Perhaps many survived or recovered, and discovered tips, tricks, and the road to a new life, or going back to oneself.

 

Thank you.

 

MEexpat

[crtclms]

Hi! I'm moving this to the benzos forum, you will get more attention there.

[melissaw72]

When I was weaning down off klonopin, it was a very slow wean ... like 0.25 mg every 1-2 weeks I'd lower the dose (per psychiatrist), until I was at the level I am at now (0.5 mg 2x/day).

[dilemma]

I did something similar to melissa and eventually completely stopped taking it.

[simplicity54]

I take it and am concerned that I'm building a tolerance. When I'm ready, I will probably try cross tapering to Gabapentin for a few unrelated reasons but also because it is a fairly decent anxiolytic.

[melissaw72]

I take it and am concerned that I'm building a tolerance. When I'm ready, I will probably try cross tapering to Gabapentin for a few unrelated reasons but also because it is a fairly decent anxiolytic.

 

FWIW,  I had a bad experience weaning off of it.  It wasn't working even at 4,000 mg/day, and the tapering off, no matter how slow it got to, was terrible.  I had withdrawal symptoms for a long time, even after weaning off of it.  The only way I found to get off of it was to wean off then deal with the withdrawal effects for awhile. 

 

But it does work for a lot of people.  Just saying I had a hard time weaning down off of it.

[MEexpat]

Thanks to all of you for your replies and encouragement.

 

 

Melissaw72, I admire your courage.  Looking at your Dx and Medications, it is quite shocking.  How do you get strength to go on with your health issues?

 

Are you still taking other medications aside from Klonopin?

 

Thanks.

[Sunshine612]

I am trying to come off this too. Currently at 1.5 to 2 mgs a day for four months. Good luck to you in your taper, I would just go slow and you will be okay.

[simplicity54]

 

I take it and am concerned that I'm building a tolerance. When I'm ready, I will probably try cross tapering to Gabapentin for a few unrelated reasons but also because it is a fairly decent anxiolytic.

 

FWIW,  I had a bad experience weaning off of it.  It wasn't working even at 4,000 mg/day, and the tapering off, no matter how slow it got to, was terrible.  I had withdrawal symptoms for a long time, even after weaning off of it.  The only way I found to get off of it was to wean off then deal with the withdrawal effects for awhile. 

 

But it does work for a lot of people.  Just saying I had a hard time weaning down off of it.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. That's good to know. I don't want to trade one addictive med for another.

[MiaB]

Thanks. That's good to know. I don't want to trade one addictive med for another.

 

 

simplicity, we frequently have to point out on this board that physical tolerance to a benzo is not the same as addiction.  Benzos are not addictive drugs in of themselves, and many of us are able to take them safely and without abusing them for extended periods of time.  Addiction is a whole different ballgame to your body having built up a physical tolerance to or being physically dependent on a benzo. Abusing the med by taking more than prescribed to get high or needing to seek it out from multiple sources to chase that high is what puts you squarely on the road to addiction.

 

As another example, I've been on seroquel for a long time and experience withdrawal symptoms when I miss a dose.   However, that means I'm physically dependent, and certainly not addicted to it.  Dependence can and frequently does lead to shitty experiences when trying to wean off benzos, but that by no means indicates that you can equate it to the hell that is addiction.

 

The bottom line really is that dependence is physical, and addiction brings psychological and compulsive behaviours into the equation.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MiaB

[simplicity54]

 

Thanks. That's good to know. I don't want to trade one addictive med for another.

 

 

simplicity, we frequently have to point out on this board that physical tolerance to a benzo is not the same as addiction.  Benzos are not addictive drugs in of themselves, and many of us are able to take them safely and without abusing them for extended periods of time.  Addiction is a whole different ballgame to your body having built up a physical tolerance to or being physically dependent on a benzo. Abusing the med by taking more than prescribed to get high or needing to seek it out from multiple sources to chase that high is what puts you squarely on the road to addiction.

 

As another example, I've been on seroquel for a long time and experience withdrawal symptoms when I miss a dose.   However, that means I'm physically dependent, and certainly not addicted to it.  Dependence can and frequently does lead to shitty experiences when trying to wean off benzos, but that by no means indicates that you can equate it to the hell that is addiction.

 

The bottom line really is that dependence is physical, and addiction brings psychological and compulsive behaviours into the equation.

 

 

Good point. I have the same physical dependence with my stabilizers.

 

My choice in words was because I have built up a tolerance to Clonazepam and am taking more than prescribed. The dose isn't too high, but it is becoming more necessary. This will only work until my stockpile runs out. I don't want to forever be taking more of this med, either. Stabilizers don't leave me wanting more. If anything, I want less of them until symptoms start.

 

What I'm not so sure about is whether I am using Clonazepam and pain pills to self-medicate a hypo. Certainly would be nicer than developing addiction issues, since as with Clonazepam, I am taking more pain pills than prescribed. That is, nicer providing that my mood doesn't wander to far out of baseline. Time changes soon. I'm kind of counting on that to mellow me enough that I stop taking the extra meds. I have medical reasons for the pain meds, but have to admit, I've also done a little med seeking there. I know when I have a problem developing, and it is starting with both types of meds. Unfortunately, more anti-manic means a lot of med interactions to deal with since my choices are limited and I have other conditions. So, yeah, enough about me.

Edited November 2, 2014 by simplicity54

[melissaw72]

^^I would definitely let your pdoc know about taking the extra klonopin.  When you run out of stockpile of meds, and you aren't on the same amount anymore, the withdrawal is terrible.  So I would nip this in the bud and tell your pdoc ASAP so your dose can be monitored.

[MEexpat]

Dear everybody,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Still struggling....tapering is improving...but pressure at work affects me, i am still very sensitive even to ordinary pressures of daily life.

 

Thanks to all of you.

[Wooster]

Are you getting help from a tdoc to build your coping skills so you have more resiliency to stressors?

[MEexpat]

Dear Wooster,

 

Thanks for your post.

 

I am presently working in a remote uninhabited desert of Saudi Arabia, (Shaybah - 800 km from the psychiatrist that I was visiting every month for Klonopin refill).  Saudi Arabia banned all benzos, so I have no other reason to go back to my doctor.  

 

Coping skills...

 

Resiliency to stressors....

 

Intense Klonopin withdrawal symptoms can easily wipe out coping skills, that's what I have experienced.  It is simply debilitating.

 

I am hoping and finding ways to mitigate withdrawals.

 

I am now at 0.375 mg (4th day), symptoms are not appearing yet, I am expecting it.

 

One reason is - I increased my dosage of Amitriptyline.  For one year, I was taking 12.5 mg daily (as prescribed) with no appreciable effect.

 

4 days ago, I increased my Amitriptyline dose to 25 mg.  Things suddenly changed, I was in good mood in the morning and had plenty of crazy, funny arguments with my co-workers in our site office.

 

Amitriptyline is already 55 years in the market, it outlived other medications, so it must have something good.

 

Remeron, my first medication, it has hang-over in the morning, mood is strange, "refreshed" but not joyful, life is dull.

 

Citalopram, along with Remeron, it made me worse, before it got better.  It is effective, but psycho-emotional side effects is equally horrible as the mental complaint itself.  But once Citalopram is stopped, I feel the benefit.  Even then, I am not taking it anymore.

 

Resiliency to stressors...this is more difficult.

 

Our company is in bad financial situation, I have equivalent of 8 months back wages unpaid.

 

With my discovery of effective therapeutic dose of Amitriptyline, I feel I could develop resiliency with a healthier CNS.

 

I have Paxil CR in my ref, but I will not take it.  I read somewhere in the internet that it is a powerful, potent SSRI, but horrible withdrawal symptoms, maybe as bad as Klonopin.  

 

Stress is not only in my job, I did some wrong turns, I think it will take time for me to get back on my feet (aside from my Klonopin tapering).

 

I am moving in a positive direction.  Thank you for your views and advices.

 

 

Expat

[MEexpat]

MiaB, I thought DEPENDENCE is the fancy word for addiction.

 

During those times of harrowing Klonopin withdrawal symptoms, I will take additional milligrams (1 to 2 mg) of Klonopin, to feel the "life" again.  Not to get the high, but yes, I also want to feel the elation, euphoria or "high".

 

Dependence could be attributed to the use of benzo beyond its safe duration of use, which is overlooked even in legitimate drug treatment.

 

Addiction is caused by compulsion or desire to get the psychedelic effect.

 

I could agree to that.  Addiction would be more difficult to deal with, because the person will be dealing two issues, to stop the desire, and to get off the drug.

 

MEexpat

[Wooster]

It must be incredibly difficult living and working so remotely.

 

How about poking through the crazy store for suggestions on workbooks you could use on your own in the absence of an accessible mental health professional... or finding someone reputable that provides telemental health services?

[MEexpat]

Dear Wooster, I would try your suggestions...

[MEexpat]

Dear everybody,

 

I am now at 0.3125 mg of Klonopin.  Tapering smoothly.  Then one day (that was Nov 14), I took 2 doses by mistake.  I feel good.  And I skipped my dose the next day to keep up with my tapering (not increasing my total blood concentration of Klonopin).  Then I resume my daily dosage of 0.3125 mg the next day.  I thought I was getting free from the clutches of Klonopin, I was wrong.  With that small mistake, intense withdrawal symptoms came back again.  

I am suffering from head pressure and mental/emotional agony for two days now.  

 

I will try to endure.  If it becomes unbearable, I will take a rescue dose.  Then I will continue again where I stop (0.3125 mg).  

 

Winning over Klonopin is far from easy.  

 

I hope everybody is doing fine and on the road to recovery.

 

 

MEexpat

[Wooster]

Sorry to hear you're having such a rough go of it, MEexpat.

 

I wonder if we should have benzo salt licks... Do you know what a "salt lick" is? It's a big block of salt and other minerals put out for livestock in the winter when it's hard for them to get their minerals from their food only. It's a communal block about the size of a couple loaves of bread. Everyone just takes a little lick or two when they walk by and notice it.

 

[MEexpat]

Benzo "salt lick" will get things worse.  If we take additional dose during withdrawal symptoms, it will prolong tapering.   

 

I am on day 5 of withdrawal symptoms.  I do not know yet who will win, me or Klonopin.

[carlossong]

I wanted to try klonopin but I'm afraid i'm going to  build tolerance like you.

 

Is there a medication I can take for a very long time without that risk?

 

I don't want to be on it if this is gonna happen to me and have to taper off in the next 2 years.

[melissaw72]

I wanted to try klonopin but I'm afraid i'm going to  build tolerance like you.

 

Is there a medication I can take for a very long time without that risk?

 

I don't want to be on it if this is gonna happen to me and have to taper off in the next 2 years.

 

I've taken klonopin for over 10 years without developing a tolerance.  Same with xanax.  Not everyone develops a tolerance to these meds.  You won't know until you try it.

[Always_Question]

First time I used Xanax was when I was a teenager, and I was on it for one or two years.  The doc then decided it was time to come off and I dropped it within a month with very few withdrawal symptoms (I forget the dosage).

 

Then, when I was 22, I was put on Clonazepam following a weird quasi-psychotic episode.  After being on it for six years, I have had a tough time reducing my dosage of clonazepam.  A few times I tried to taper down to being off completely.  The latest time I tried the withdrawal effects lasted about 5 months while tapering from 4 to 3, 3 to 1.5, 1.5 to 1, from 1 to 0.5, then from 0.5 to 0.25, then from 0.25 to 0.  I was at 0 mg for a month, but then the anxiety got really bad and I decided that, for me, being off them is worse than being on them.  So, I went back on and decided that the side effects and dependence I experience are acceptable since the med makes life livable.

 

My point is that I agree with Melissaw72 that not everyone develops a tolerance or dependence, but, of course, some people do.  And, also, in my case, I did not develop a dependence the first time I was prescribed benzos, but the second time I developed one for sure.  I was hoping that sharing my experience might provide some information to you if you are looking into benzos as a possible treatment.