Long Term Use of Benzodiazepines linked to Increased Risk of Alzheimers

[HAL9000]

My GDoc asked me to come in for a med check.  This is not unheard of.  I think its valuable to talk about the pills I take and ask things like "Are these working?"   "Do I still need this?"  "What are my options"

 

This time around she told me she was bringing in everyone she has prescribed Benzos to.   There is a study that has some scary numbers saying long term / regular use of Benzos is a trip to the Alzheimers ward.  

 

YIKES!  

 

I'm pretty freaked out and I'm not even taking my Benzos with any great frequency other then the last week or so.  Is anyone else worried about this?  Has anyone gotten called in by their doc and what options are there? 

[Jessamine]

I have not been called (in Australia though). I guess I'm not worried. I think I've probably taken about 10 tablets total over the last 8 years. I tend to keep them only for absolute emergencies. It does make me concerned though as I'm not having much luck with AD's so had considered that I may have to rely on them a little more in the future. My Dad already has some kind of memory problem so it's not something I want to risk even more.

[melissaw72]

My pdoc has not mentioned anything about this, and I just saw him last Thursday.  I'm not worried.  Plus I really need them.  Without them I'd lead an anxious, non-functioning life.

 

I think it is something where the benefits outweigh the risks.

[lysergia]

that seems like a bit of a severe reaction on the part of your GP.  i think i would hold off on panicking (ha, panic, benzos, i'm funny this morning) until more information has become available.  having said that, even if it is true, what does she suggest the bazillion of us that need these things to function do as an alternative?  i think it's safe to say most of us have tried the other alternatives already, since nobody really wants to be dependent on benzos (myself included).  

[MiaB]

Did she give you the name of the study?  I'd be curious to know what it is and if there are any other studies yet confirming these conclusions.  It sounds like alarmist thinking to me, but then I'm not a doctor.  My own pdoc hasn't mentioned anything about this to me, and I see her every month.  My thinking is that a psychiatrist (who is by definition more educated in psych medication) would know more about the implications of such a study than a GP, and I'll raise it with my pdoc when I see her again on Tuesday.

 

I agree with what lysergia said above about what alternatives are available to those of us who have tried (many) other solutions already, should this prove to be true.

Edited November 8, 2014 by MiaB

[Foggy Brain]

I remember when this study hit the news.  I can't for the life of me remember who did it.  The risk of Alzheimer's is increased by 50% in seniors who take benzos for long term. I was freaking out too until I listened to the author talking about it and she said it was in senior citizens.  If you are over 65, you are already at risk for some kind of dementia anyway and elderly people shouldn't be on benzos if it can be helped because they get different side effects than the general public - that's why they use trazadone in the elderly. 

 

I'm sure if you google it, you'll find the study.  I don't think there's any reason to panic though.  Pun unintended.

[evilnessness]

study

http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5205

From what I understand, the correlation cannot be generalized to younger patients and they would need a considerably longer term follow up study for that group. It's cool that she wants to inform of possible risks but bringing everyone in specifically for that study without explaining further seems maybe odd and alarmist in my random asshole on the internet opinion.

Personally, benzos would scare me too much to want to take them daily even if they didn't make me sick at effective levels, so I get your fear. This study doesn't address your population or use patterns, though. I would bet my brain that occasional prn use like yours would not damage me. Also, the risk/reward ratio is important.

Edited November 8, 2014 by evilnessness

[HAL9000]

I have a lot of faith in this particular doctor.   *And I'm not in general that way about doctors.   Umm...  Ok, I read the link.   It sounds like science to me.    I've read other "studies" that sound like stupidity and so far I don't sniff that out.

 

My general take on this is that using benzos regularly.   Like daily rather then (as needed) makes this more likely.  I also think I'm reading that taking a drug with a long half life (Stays in your system longer) is worse for you then taking a drug with a short half life.

 

So, taking valium (Long half life) twice a day is bad.    Taking Xanax (I think thats short half life?  Someone?) once or twice a month is "better" odds wise.   I think my not taking a benzo daily (more often then not) is good.   Trying to avoid using it a little harder is probably a good idea anyway.   The drug itself?   I guess I'm not as keen on Valium as I was.   Maybe I'll ask my doc to switch my script.   Also I think its good to not be 65 years old(er) so hopefully someone comes up with a solution to that real soon now...

[jt07]

Seems a little alarmist to me based on just one study. If there were multiple studies all pointing to the same thing, then I think it is something to be concerned about. But one study is just one data point and not the whole picture.

[Phoenix_Rising]

Seems a little alarmist to me based on just one study. If there were multiple studies all pointing to the same thing, then I think it is something to be concerned about. But one study is just one data point and not the whole picture.

Benzos, it seems, are constantly getting a bad rap from one source or another.  The problem, as lysergia and mia said, is that there aren't many alternatives.  In addition to benzos, which I've been taking for over 16 years, I already take a mood stabilizer, a beta blocker, an AAP and an AD so I'm already taking the alternatives and still require daily benzos.  I also just saw my pdoc today (and see her every two weeks) and she didn't mention anything about this study.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying that she would have mentioned it to me if she really thought long-term benzo use was a problem.

[San]

It would be dose-dependent, and a lot of other factors. It does sound scary, but it's one study. Back in the old days, benzo's were used in higher doses and more often with patients. I take 2mg of klonopin a day, and have no issues with it. I've been on benzo's for 13 years, and the risk is still pretty low.

 

Benzo's do have a bad rap, but my doc uses them with me, and just raised my dose, even (from 1.5mg to 2mg a day). I'm not terribly worried about Alzheimers. 

[crtclms]

Alzheimer's has a strong genetic component. I suspect that those gentically predisposed to Alzheimer's have the worst of it.

 

I read an article about a year ago that some Alzheimer's is inherited from a mother by her sons. Of course, that is just one subset. But it kind of throws a wrench into their theory.

 

Correlation ≠ Causation, which every one here knows.

[HAL9000]

I reread the study.   My amateur summing up of what is claimed is that older folks who take Benzos on a regular basis are more highly diagnosed with Alzheimers.   The longer the half life of the drug the greater the percentage of people who end up with Alzheimers.  Being exposed (Having ever taken a Benzo) has a measurable increase in your likely hood of getting Alzheimers. 

 

So...   I pondered this and thought two things.   1) Since I take it PRN (as needed) I should do everything I can to avoid using it.   If there is a risk it seems to lower it by some amount.  My TDoc and I have already been on that and I'm having a better use (I'm taking it less often) rate then when I was first prescribed.   I thought a bit about the longer half life increasing the risk.   Which is bad because Valium has the longest half life.   So - since my GDoc let me inject my two cents worth on meds in the past I thought maybe a short study would find a similar drug with a shorter half life but still have the desired effect at around the same time.

 

So - I looked up the study and noted the expected "Onset of action"   I mean whats the point of taking a drug for an anxiety attack and having it take  forever to kick in?   So I canceled out the Slow, Intermediate to slow, intermediate onset of action drugs.   Then I looked at the half lives and came up with Alprazolam and ativan having a fast (to intermediate) onset of action.   Then I looked at Half lives.   *Note I didn't pay much attention to some of the other benzos in the study because I've never heard of them.  

A problem - *Note its pretty screwy that you can find highly variable numbers for what the half live is supposed to be.    Anyone know whats up with that? 

 

Drug                

Alprazolam XANAX   (10-20 h)   12-15???   Wiki 11.2

Lorazepam ATIVAN   (10-20 h)              Wiki 9-16

Diazepam Valium    (32-47 h)   20-50???   Wiki 20-100 / 36-200

 

So - how do scientific studies have different basic info?  I dunno.   What do you think of asking my Doc to switch me from Valium to Xanax (or Ativan) and me trying all the TDoc tricks

[jt07]

I think we pretty much answered your question when we pointed out that one study doesn't mean all that much and that correlation doesn't equal causation. However, I do encourage you to use therapy to the max and develop some non-med tools to deal with anxiety.

[jt07]

I want to add that if it were such a major concern, the FDA would put out a warning. So far they haven't done that which means the weight of the evidence is not sufficient to convince them that benzos "cause" dementia.

[notfred]

Metabolism varies in people, so not everyone will have a same half life for metabolizing a med. It varies largely for benzos.

[HAL9000]

I decided to ask the doc to switch me.   As I said I'm personally skeptical of most studies.   You know.  Coffee is bad for you then its good for you etc etc etc.   And I do think there are groups who have convinced themselves that Benzos are made by Satan and won't be happy until they are all shoveled into a garbage dump.   I

[WinterRosie]

 As I said I'm personally skeptical of most studies.   You know.  Coffee is bad for you then its good for you etc etc etc.  

 And yet, one study comes out that might potentially affect you if you took your meds completely differently from how you do, and you're flipping your shit. Yes your doctor encouraged this freakout, and that is not okay. 

But if you are so skeptical of studies, then be skeptical of this one, too, until the body of research can come to a conclusion.

 

My personal suspicion is that this has more to do about how freely drugs like Mama's Little Helper (valium) were doled out for a few generations. It's not like that anymore. My grandmother had 8 bottles of valium on the go, and she took them multiple times a day for over 35 years. That's the usage that we're talking about in this study, I'm supposing. 

I'm going to go out on a pretty solid branch and guess that that's not your pattern of use.

 

Also, if we're talking about dosages in seniors, well, our bodies go through some pretty solid changes as we age. Did the study look at how a senior's body metabolizes these meds? I'm guessing that it's different from how younger bodies do, because seniors tend to metabolize almost everything differently. Hence different vitamin recommendations, different med dosage recommendations, hell, different sleep recommendations. Maybe that has something to do with it, too. 

[HAL9000]

I want to add that if it were such a major concern, the FDA would put out a warning. So far they haven't done that which means the weight of the evidence is not sufficient to convince them that benzos "cause" dementia.

I don't want to sound like a dick but I think you might be a little bit deluded about the FDA.  I trust my doc a lot more then I trust the FDA.   On the other hand I might be a tad paranoid because I associate the FDA with politics and red tape.  Sure - I realize that studies can be motivated by the same sorts of things but I lean to what my GDoc says.   I think of her as my filter from the mountain BS that we all get bombarded with.  I'm also a little on edge about dementia.  I watched my father in law loose the ability to recognize his family and in the end about all he knew was that he grew up in St Paul.

 

Anyway I mulled it all over and decided one way or the other to toss the Valium *The doctors office has a cool deal where you can dispose of your unused drugs.   I admit I'm relieved GDoc agrees Xanax is a better idea.  In fact that was what she suggested at the start of all this but... I was kind of freaked out about that drug.  As dumb as it sounds I was freaked out about xanax because a guy I worked with was taking it (probably massive amounts) and I was worried it would veg me out like it was vegging him out.   I knew him before and after and he was almost unrecognizable. 

[jt07]

Just because YOU associate the FDA with politics and red tape doesn't mean I'm "deluded" about the FDA. Much of that "red tape" is to ensure that the drugs are safe prior to approval. The FDA has kept our medicines among the safest in the world, and I won't cast dispersions on them just because they are part of the "big bad gov'mint".

 

Do what you want. It's your body. Just don't come here suggesting that a link between dementia and benzo use has definitively been established when there exists only one study and that study shows only a correlation but not causation. 

[HAL9000]

Gadzooks!  What exactly did I say to get you guys so pissed off with me?  I guess my folks said never discuss sex religion and politics.  

 

Honestly I understand putting your faith in a doctor or the FDA, GOD or politicians.   I agree that Doctors were totally 180 when they were doleing out mega doses of "mothers little helper" a few decades ago.   I had a neighbor who was put on some massive dose for pain (She accidently sliced her hand down to the bone)  Anyway - she kept taking it for many months (years?)  because she just kept getting all her drugs refilled (She wasn't paying attention) and her doctor wasn't paying attention.   Wow what a mess that was.  When she went in and asked "Why am I taking this?"  The doctor flipped and just had her stop cold and she was barfing up chunks over our fence into our back yard.  Thankfully they put her back on it and tapered her down in a sensible fashion and she was as right as rain after that.

 

That said - Please underline that I'm NOT anti benzo.   The concept of not having Benzos as my emergency plan B is enough to make me need to do Emergency plan B!   When I have a bad anxiety attack its just unbearable.

 

I came here to have a conversation and see if anyone else is getting called into the doctors office to talk about this.   This is unusual (Unheard of) in my experience.   Maybe others have this happen a lot?  I dunno.   Thats one reason I started the thread.   I assume my doctor is alarmed.  Makes sense - right?  She has never before "called me in" to discuss a study.  So - weird.  I get on the forum.  I ask whats up with everyone else.  What do you all think?   Is that a crime?   Where did I mess up?

 

Per the FDA being good, bad or some combo.  I'm not saying the FDA is bad.  I'm not saying anything but what I said.  The Federal part / politicians part concerns me.   Right now governement agencies are holding some serious baggage for me.  This is not directly related but my daugher was (my opinion) screwed around with by the VA.  She spent most of a year doing seriously scary (guns, rockets and bombs) stuff.   She tells me she has PTSD and while I'm not a doctor I would have to say its pretty clear she does.  Why did it take months to see anyone and then they get her in on a really infrequent sched.   Like another month + between TDocs?   Again - this is just my amateur observation and yes, I'm sure this jaded me.  I'm not "down on America" or think our medical system is evil.   I think its the worst possible system except for everyone elses! 

 

Studies and statistics - I think some of you are reading me wrong.  I'm totally down with those of you have have questions about this study.   We all know how many of these things go back and forth regularly one day somethings good for you and another day its bad.  I was curious why the study had different half lives I've seen published in other places (Wiki For example)  

 

I guess I could go reread what I posted but I thought I was thinking out a middle ground.   I'm trying to avoid taking Benzo so often "My as needed script" which I think might be good regardless of the study.   I've decided to make a greater effort in Therapy.  I've decided that (for my peace of mind) its reasonable to go from Valium to Xanax because of the difference in the half life.   And just a note - Xanax is working fine.   A little less subtle for me.   Hey - whatever.

 

I would really like to be clear on something if you believe I said  "a link between dementia and benzo use has definitively been established."   I either babbled something wrong or your reading into my posts something I didn't  intend.  Ok?   So anyone pissed with me because they think I'm trying to tell them what to do?   Please don't.  I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do.   I was asking what I should do. 

 

I'm trying to reread what I said and I guess my "deluded" thing was crass.  I could have said that much better.    The tone is missing from forum posts.  I didn't intend for that to come out the way it probably did.   I could have just said I'm going to try to meet my doctors advice halfway (period)   And can we leave it at that?  I think the thread started to go wrong with " And yet, one study comes out that might potentially affect you if you took your meds completely differently from how you do, and you're flipping your shit. Yes your doctor encouraged this freakout, and that is not okay."   Which btw I still don't get other then I don't like the "you're flipping your shit" comment.  Which part  "is not okay?"   My doctor telling me this study and asking me how often I use Valium or me "flipping my shit" which I assume is me being an alarmist or?   The "is not okay" thing -- my doctor is not being okay or I'm not being okay...   

 

Maybe its time to just say that I'm sorry this ended up getting personal.   I come here for some support and a discussion with people who have the been there and done that with MI.   For me this has only be maybe 2 or 3 years and Its not that long ago I was even more idiotic - because I was worried meds would make me into a mind numbed robot.   Anyway I never came here to flame people or get into spun up fights.

[Sky827]

I am worried about it. I already have memory problems. A friend also. I used since 2006-7 I am on 2 mg Ativan now and want to do a long taper off. I joined a recovery group on Facebook and a lot of people have had problems from the benzos and are getting off. I am praying I can do this safely.

[kyliewylie]

There is a documentary on youtube called XANAX- more addictive than heroin. It is a news report from australia and i don't think it is bogus.

[crtclms]

KylieWylie, we are not a Scientology site. We believe medicine used according to doctors orders is more important than what some random "news" story has to say. And how do you know it isn't bogus? Are we supposed to go on your word for it?

 

If it is a news report, I can almost promise you it is not peer reviewed. If it is peer reviewed, please provide us with a link to back up your questionable assertion.

 

And former heroin addicts I know say cigarettes are  more addictive than heroin. I've never heard one say benzos are more addictive.

[HAL9000]

My parents quit smoking cigarettes and I saw both of them act in ways I would never have imagined.  They both quit but omg...  Really seriously disturbing and it made up my mind for me that I wasn't ever going to be going through the same hell they did.  I've had surgery and I've taking opiates but honestly?   They make me want to puke then knock me out and I don't like to puke and the only reason being knocked out is appealing is when pain is so bad I would rather be out.   I've never taken a daily benzo its always been an as needed and to be honest the effect (to me) is pretty subtle like OK I'm having a major spaz and I take a Valium (or now Xanax) and nothing but then I notice that I am not spun up into an anxiety attack anymore.   I guess they kind of make me sleepy but none of this is like WOW I want to take any of that shit because it makes me feel so great it just makes me not feel so "F"ed up.   And I really dont' take them that much anymore so I guess the addictive nature of this is different for everyone.  Hopefully you won't have serious troubles with quitting the Benzos.   I would say one thing.  Don't assume your going to have problems.  Right?

[kyliewylie]

I see now that you guys are right. In a sense that for political etiquitte every individual has a different experience and if there is a drug to aid them than it should be available. In the grand scheme of things it is always better than the alternative of not having an option. I can't count the times i wish the clinics had done more to care in the face of their conservativism. I used to suffer from very bad anxiety that would equate to what i would know as a long drawn out daymare. I shouldn't have contradicted the thread. You guys have taught me a lot.