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Can i take lithium orotate while on lithium carbonate? i'm on a very low dose 900mg


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Hi forum Members,

 

Can i take lithium orotate while on lithium carbonate? i'm on a very low dose 900mg

 

I guess the answer would be yes but I guess what I really worry about is it affecting my kidney's what not.

 

I am in the low range at 900mg and my old doctor would have liked to saw me on 1200mg lithium but I didn't like the side effects *feeling wise on 1200mg but I would be willing to add a little orotate in.

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Orotic acid binds differently than lithium carbonate, so that is a problem. Here are other ways orotic acid can harm you

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orotic_acid#Orotic_acid_diseases

 

"A buildup of orotic acid can lead to orotic aciduria and acidemia. It may be a symptom of an increased ammonia load due to a metabolic disorder, such as a urea cycle disorder.

In ornithine transcarbamoylase deficiency, an X-linked inherited and the most common urea cycle disorder, excess carbamoyl phosphate is converted into orotic acid. This leads to an increased serum ammonia level, increased serum and urinary orotic acid levels and a decreased serum BUN level. This also leads to an increased urinary orotic acid excretion, because the orotic acid is not being properly utilized and must be eliminated. The hyperammonemia depletes alpha-ketoglutarate leading to the inhibition of the tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA) decreasing ATP production.

Orotic acid can be mutagenic (causes mutations) in mammalian somatic cells.[dubious discuss] It is also mutagenic for bacteria and or yeast."

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I was just thinking about taking 2 tablets a day to help with my insomnia that I have been getting while coming off of Saphris. It is only 10mg of elemental lithium and it shouldn't cause any effect to my lithium carbonate.

 

No, don't do that. It is incredibly bad for you to do that. It's self medicating, and that's just bad. Talk to your pdoc, there are other options. If you need to sleep, talk to your pdoc or GP and get something safe to take to sleep. Lithium isn't terribly sedating. 

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900mg is also not a very low dose. Many people on lithium find 900-1200mg, from my experience, to hit the target levels in the blood. On 900mg, my level was 0.8, which was good. It depends on your body, some people metabolise differently. 

 

But if you're worried about kidney problems, stay the fuck away from orotate because you're just asking for it.

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If you need more lithium, get your doctor to increase your carbonate a little bit.

 

There is really no benefit to adding lithium orotate.  It's just more lithium, which you can get from carbonate, PLUS something that can pooch your kidneys.

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Tryp,

 

Say if I took lithium orotate instead of lithium carbonate instead.. can't lithium carbonate pooch your kidneys as well. Lithium orotate is used in 40mg does vs 900mg so wouldn't lithium be more likely to pooch ones kidneys?

Edited by Thunderstruck
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There isn't a LOT of scientific data, but the one study that I know of that does exist demonstrates (in rats) that lithium orotate could potentially be worse for your kidneys than lithium carbonate.  Plus it's messing around with your lithium without working with your doctor.

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It seems like you really want to do this for some reason.

 

It's not a good idea to mess with psychoactive substances without your doctor's approval.  It's not a good idea to mess around with your lithium.  And it's really silly to use over the counter lithium rather than working with your psychiatrist to adjust the dose of your prescribed lithium.

 

But you're going to do what you're going to do.

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I could be reading your post wrong, but (to me) it says you want to lower your lithium level.  If you combine your current dose of carbonate and then add the orate to it, it's not going to lower your level.  IMO, I think you would risk increasing your lithium level and risk lithium toxicity.

 

I do agree with tryp on this.  Before adding other medications to your regimen (even OTC product and herbal remedies), get clearance from your doctor first.

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You seem to be determined to do it anyways... hypothyroid is easily treated. OTC lithium orotate is dangerous. Just because its OTC, it doesn't mean its safe. It's still lithium. A therapeutic dose is a therapeutic dose no matter which you're taking. It's best to stay with lithium carbonate and have a doctor monitoring blood levels. 

 

Lithium can be bad for the kidneys, but if you keep getting levels done and have regular physicals, it can be caught earlier and treated. 

 

And like others have said, why not try another mood stabilizer if you're so worried about side effects from lithium? You seem to want to get off it, thinking some OTC thing will work the same way. 

 

If lithium carbonate affected your thyroid, so will lithium orotate. They're both lithium. Just different formulas. You seem to hate all meds and go on and off them a lot, from past posts. Meds have side effects. Adding lithium orotate is asking fr trouble. You'll get the same side effects. 

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