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Will this work for (and perhaps cure) anhedonia?


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Anhedonia (emotional numbness) which is an absence of pleasure is something I have and it is chronic, there all the time 24/7, and there are never any brief moments of pleasure whatsoever.  Anhedonia is a disregulated stress response in the brain that turns off your pleasure and/or other emotions in which areas of the brain that are responsible for regulating (controlling and turning off the stress response), these areas of the brain malfunction.  The malfunctioning of these brain areas is what results in the stress response to perpetuate which then turns off your pleasure and/or other emotions since the stress response itself cannot be turned off.

 

Therefore, a very important question I have is that those shots that outbursting psychotic patients receive that calm down their stress response, will one of these shots work on my anhedonia since my anhedonia is a stress response?  I know that those shots only work temporarily on those outbursting psychotic patients.  But wouldn't the only reason why it only works temporary is because their stress response is needed?  For example, if a patient were in a hospital with a ferocious lion trying to attack this patient 24/7, this patient would outburst with panic and such.  Then, of course, once this patient is given a shot, that would calm down his/her stress response.  However, since that stress response would be needed since it is a protective survival response against the lion, this patient would soon outburst with panic and such later on once again.

 

But since the only reason why the stress response perpetuates in anhedonia is only because of the fact that it can't turn off and that it is actually an unnecessary stress response, then if you were given a shot that turns off this stress response, then shouldn't that mean that this stress response should remain turned off?  In other words, if I were given a shot right now that were to rid of my anhedonia in that given moment and return my pleasure, then shouldn't this mean that my anhedonia should now be gone completely (cured) and that I should now have my pleasure back?  If one of those shots somehow doesn't work on the anhedonia in that given moment, then what about a tranquilizer gun (those guns they use on wild animals to calm them down and to calm down their stress response)?

 

Now I realize that if it were that simple, then we would have patients cured of anhedonia in no time.  However, there might be the slim chance that I am right here.  But I'm not sure whether my anhedonia is an abnormal physiological change in my brain (a disregulated stress response) and/or a needed natural response that has turned off my panic from the panic disorder I was having in the past in order to protect and numb me from the overwhelming panic.

 

Now what I'm saying here might be no different than me saying something such as that someone who has severe chronic depression due to any abnormality in his/her brain such as a chemical imbalance, malfunctioning of areas of his/her brain that regulate stress, etc., that this person can then go into a hospital, get shot up, and have their depression cured.  Now if this person's depression is a natural response, then it would be both a natural response and a disregulated stress response (since his/her depression is also the result of malfunctioning of parts of his/her brain).  And, of course, if his/her depression wasn't the result of malfunctioning of parts of his/her brain, then this depression would just be a natural response (such as a response to a stressful life event).  But wouldn't giving this person a shot cure him/her of his/her depression in that given moment and that the only way for his/her depression to come back and become chronic once again is if the natural response version of the depression were to initiate which would then obviously result in the disregulated version of the depression to also occur (providing that this patient has malfunctioning brain regions to make this depression a disregulated stress response to begin with)?

 

In other words, if someone were to become chronically depressed due to a stressful life event (the natural response version of depression) which now has become a disregulated stress response (the unnatural response version of depression) in which that stressful life event is gone out of this person's life, but he/she still feels depressed anyway.  And that if this person were to then go to the hospital and get shot up, wouldn't this cure him/her of his/her depression?  And that he/she will remain cured as long as he/she does not have another episode of depression in his/her life since having another episode (another natural response version of depression) would result in this depression becoming a chronic disregulated stress response as well?

 

So what I'm saying here is that if my anhedonia is just a physiological change in my brain (a disregulated stress response), that giving me a shot should cure it and that I should remain cured as long as there is no more significant stress in my life that could result in another episode of anhedonia (another disregulated stress response).

Edited by MattMVS7
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I am curious where you learned that adhedonia is a stress response.

 

I have not heard that before.

 

People experiencing psychosis are generally considered to be having thought disorders, whereas depression is a mood disorder. There are different biochemical processes involved, and it seems unlikely that a fast acting antipsychotic agent would help address what you characterize as long-term depression effects.

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I am curious where you learned that adhedonia is a stress response.

 

I have not heard that before.

 

People experiencing psychosis are generally considered to be having thought disorders, whereas depression is a mood disorder. There are different biochemical processes involved, and it seems unlikely that a fast acting antipsychotic agent would help address what you characterize as long-term depression effects.

 

Now how anhedonia is a stress response would be because of the fact that the ability to experience pleasure cannot just simply turn off by itself.  Another area of the brain has to become active in order to turn off the ability to experience pleasure.  This other area of the brain that has become active would be the stress response that has turned off the ability to experience pleasure.  Which is why I am wondering if shooting myself with a tranquilizer gun or getting myself shot up at the hospital would ease up or rid this anhedonia completely.

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I am curious where you learned that adhedonia is a stress response.

 

I have not heard that before.

 

People experiencing psychosis are generally considered to be having thought disorders, whereas depression is a mood disorder. There are different biochemical processes involved, and it seems unlikely that a fast acting antipsychotic agent would help address what you characterize as long-term depression effects.

 

Now how anhedonia is a stress response would be because of the fact that the ability to experience pleasure cannot just simply turn off by itself.  Another area of the brain has to become active in order to turn off the ability to experience pleasure.  This other area of the brain that has become active would be the stress response that has turned off the ability to experience pleasure.  Which is why I am wondering if shooting myself with a tranquilizer gun or getting myself shot up at the hospital would ease up or rid this anhedonia completely. Mine came out of nowhere as my depression moderated. There was no stress to trigger it.

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Now how anhedonia is a stress response would be because of the fact that the ability to experience pleasure cannot just simply turn off by itself.  Another area of the brain has to become active in order to turn off the ability to experience pleasure.  This other area of the brain that has become active would be the stress response that has turned off the ability to experience pleasure.  Which is why I am wondering if shooting myself with a tranquilizer gun or getting myself shot up at the hospital would ease up or rid this anhedonia completely.

 

You calling things a fact doesn't mean they are facts.  Produce a study explaining this fact of yours.

 

Oh.  How do you plan on obtaining drugged darts that are intended to paralyze animals? 

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{citation needed}

Please support statements about neurology with links to research, or popular articles based on said research.

In other words, as I said last time you turned up, get thee to sciencedaily.com and search the site, noting their search feature needs to be adjusted to go back at least 5 years.

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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141020105037.htm

Levels of anhedonia plummeted within 40 minutes in patients who received ketamine, compared with those who received placebo -- and the effect was still detectable in some patients two weeks later. Other depressive symptoms improved within 2 hours. The anti-anhedonic effect remained significant even in the absence of other antidepressant effects, suggesting a unique role for the drug.

Next, the researchers scanned a subset of the ketamine-infused patients, using positron emission tomography (PET), which shows what parts of the brain are active by tracing the destinations of radioactively-tagged glucose -- the brain's fuel. The scans showed that ketamine jump-started activity not in the middle brain area they had expected, but rather in the dorsal (upper) anterior cingulate cortex, near the front middle of the brain and putamen, deep in the right hemisphere.

That took me all of 5 minutes, and I not only found that alleviation of anhedonia seems to correlate with raised activity in the upper anterior cingulate cortex and the putamen, I found that ketamine seems to alleviate the symptoms.

Not that I am all hot shit on brain anatomy or something.

Ketamine's in clinical trials as an antidepressant, I'm looking forward to it hitting the market. Its' fast action will likely save a lot of lives.

Google stuff.

Note also I don't say fact. I say " seems to correlate with."

...people used to think it was a fact that masturbating would cause mental disorders...

Not so much.

The word fact tends to be used to describe verified past events or natural laws, like gravity or entropy, not so much brain activity.

Edited by Stickler
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Now how anhedonia is a stress response would be because of the fact that the ability to experience pleasure cannot just simply turn off by itself.  Another area of the brain has to become active in order to turn off the ability to experience pleasure.  This other area of the brain that has become active would be the stress response that has turned off the ability to experience pleasure.  Which is why I am wondering if shooting myself with a tranquilizer gun or getting myself shot up at the hospital would ease up or rid this anhedonia completely.

 

You calling things a fact doesn't mean they are facts.  Produce a study explaining this fact of yours.

 

Oh.  How do you plan on obtaining drugged darts that are intended to paralyze animals? 

 

 

I have a severe mental illness (anhedonia) as I said before and all I was ever asking here was for a possible hope (a cure) here that just might help ease up or even possibly rid this anhedonia once and for all.  If you don't have full respect and full compassion towards my issue by not helping me out here by ignoring my vital request and instead focusing on a far less important matter such as the mere fact that I have not provided evidence for those claims I mentioned in a perhaps annoyed manner, then this would mean that you are not a fully respectful and fully compassionate person here.  This would be because you have just simply brushed off my anhedonia and have brushed off my desire to have it eased up or possibly cured right now and that you have instead deemed other things I've said to be the more important matter.  But if you have asked this in a fully respectful and fully compassionate matter, then I will have full respect and full compassion towards you in return.  But if you have asked this in a less compassionate and less respectful and perhaps annoyed manner, then I will not have any respect or compassion towards you.  Especially the tone in your last sentence I think tells me that you do not have full respect and full compassion because rather than trying to find out and tell me where I can get these drugged darts and trying to find out whether they would even work or not and presenting yourself in a fully respectful and fully compassionate manner, you instead just ask me in a sarcastic manner how I would go about obtaining them.  

 

So which is it?  Do you have full respect and full compassion towards me or not?  (NOTE:  Any less compassionate and/or less respectful and annoyed/offended/irratated attitude you present to me here on in either through answering this very question I am now presenting and/or in any other of your posts here that address my very issue (providing that my issue is not intended to criticize and offend anyone which it is not and I am just simply asking a very important question here not only in terms of my issue, but also to see who you really are as a person here, and also because I am presenting some information regarding anhedonia), then you will be deemed by me as a person not worth my time as long as you have this less compassionate and less respectful attitude and that you do not reconcile).

 

What I just said here in my post also applies to anyone else here.

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Basically, you are making a social error of sorts.

You're not presenting here as a hurting human being.

You are presenting as someone with an idea...that would rather tell us about the idea in a disjointed way than research and present that idea in a coherent way.

The latter is...common on the intertubes and annoying.

Please show us where the Owie is.

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If you want compassion, talk about your feelings.

Having anhedonia sucks.

How about you tell us about how it sucks for you?

If you want to talk about neuroscience, talk about neuroscience.

 

Thanks for your full respect and full compassion.  I am a hedonist (which means that I have a belief that states that pleasure and suffering are the only true good and bad things in life and are the only things that determine the amount of good and bad value we as human beings have and in our lives while everything else in life besides our pleasure and suffering is neither good or bad and are only good and bad in a neutral sense which means they are not truly good or bad things at all).  Therefore, since I have lost all my pleasure and there are never any brief moments of pleasure whatsoever, then me and my life have no good value whatsoever regardless of how much I help others and do great things in my life anyway without my pleasure.  My hedonistic belief is something that will never change since my personal and profound meaningful experience of pleasure I had in the past when I had my full pleasure back then vehemently says to me that my pleasure is the only thing in life that defines the amount of good value me and my life have.  My personal experience of depression and anhedonia also vehemently make pleasure that much more important for me in life.  Also, even though I can live for others and their pleasure, we are only in our own minds and cannot experience the pleasure of others.  Therefore, the pleasure and suffering of others from my own perspective is nothing more than a neutral thought that is neither good or bad.  Only my own pleasure makes me and my life anything good.  However, I still have full compassion and respect towards others anyway even despite knowing the fact that there is nothing good about that without my pleasure.

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Ketamine's in clinical trials as an antidepressant, I'm looking forward to it hitting the market. Its' fast action will likely save a lot of lives.

 

 

About ketamine ... it is available, but not covered by insurance ... there is a place near me that does it but my pdoc has advised against it because of possible side effects interacting with the meds I am on.

 

http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/46-2/

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A lot of people on this site, myself included, suffer from anhedonia. It is a symptom not a disease. It may be temporary and relent when the underlying condition is treated effectively, and it can come in ebbs and flows throughout life. If it were so simple as getting yourself "shot up" on meds then a lot of us here would not be suffering from it. A lot of us here have received shots of tranquilizers or APs and still suffer from anhedonia.

 

I agree with everyone else that you need to stop putting forth your ideas as though they were facts. If you want to convince us that you are right then back them up by science. Also, you will get plenty of compassion if you come here and talk about your feelings and present us with a practical real-time problem rather than an academic discussion.

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A lot of people on this site, myself included, suffer from anhedonia. It is a symptom not a disease. It may be temporary and relent when the underlying condition is treated effectively, and it can come in ebbs and flows throughout life. If it were so simple as getting yourself "shot up" on meds then a lot of us here would not be suffering from it. A lot of us here have received shots of tranquilizers or APs and still suffer from anhedonia.

 

I agree with everyone else that you need to stop putting forth your ideas as though they were facts. If you want to convince us that you are right then back them up by science. Also, you will get plenty of compassion if you come here and talk about your feelings and present us with a practical real-time problem rather than an academic discussion.

 

In that case, I have presented my previous post which talks about my personal issue.  Also, even though it is highly likely that I am wrong that a shot and/or a tranquilizer gun would alleviate this anhedonia, I think it would be worth a try anyway since I have nothing to lose (I literally have nothing to lose since everything else in life without my pleasure is all nothing and neutral to me anyway).

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Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor, the only one currently.

Dopamine is the reward chemical of the brain.

So what pharmaceutical kludges have you tried?

Edited by Stickler
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Asking for people to cite sources for their claims of fact is completely unrelated to one's desire or ability to be a compassionate individual.

 

It is simply seeking to make sure we are putting out factual information for people who read the boards here.

 

Your suffering is not incidental.

 

Many people here suffer with the same symptoms and seek solutions. 

 

Your questions are not unreasonable. Addressing or answering your questions to try to clarify your thinking does not negate your suffering.

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Asking for people to cite sources for their claims of fact is completely unrelated to one's desire or ability to be a compassionate individual.

 

It is simply seeking to make sure we are putting out factual information for people who read the boards here.

 

Your suffering is not incidental.

 

Many people here suffer with the same symptoms and seek solutions. 

 

Your questions are not unreasonable. Addressing or answering your questions to try to clarify your thinking does not negate your suffering.

 

You would be right in saying that others asking these questions does not make them less compassionate people.  However, the tonality in which these people ask these questions is what determines whether they are fully compassionate people or not.

 

Now what do you mean by saying that my suffering is not incidental?  Do you mean that my anhedonia just happened spontaneously without any stressful event in my life that caused it to happen?  If that is what you are saying, then this would be false.  I had a severe panic disorder in the past and immediately when I felt that this panic disorder might last my entire life and that it could get very severe to the point of hospitalization, that caused me severe chronic depression at the same time as well.  Immediately when I experienced this severe chronic depression, the panic from this panic disorder has completely shut down and my ability to experience pleasure was also a bit shut down as well.  However, when this severe chronic depression went away completely, that is when my ability to experience pleasure also completely shut down with my panic as well.  Now both my panic and pleasure are completely shut down.  Therefore, that severe chronic depression I had in the past was the cause of this anhedonia.

 

However, I am thinking that if I didn't have this panic disorder at all and that I just had the severe chronic depression alone, then I wouldn't have this anhedonia at all.  I am thinking this because I never had anhedonia in my entire life and I have had many moments of severe and chronic depression in my life and they have never caused anhedonia to any given degree either.  Therefore, that panic disorder being there must of had something to do with my anhedonia happening.  Perhaps having two chronic stress responses happening at once is never a good thing and can disrupt one another and cause anhedonia as a result (maybe they can only disrupt one another when one of these stress responses is severe enough and also when these two stress responses are both at the proper level of severity that would be necessary to cause anhedonia).  Therefore, since I had a chronic panic disorder in the past and since I then had chronic depression that was severe at that same time, this chronic depression was severe enough to disrupt the panic stress response in my brain which resulted in an abnormal physiological change in my brain (which would be the anhedonia).

 

Now why is it that I am making all of these claims with no scientific evidence to back them up?  It would be because I am trying to find out what the problem is and what caused my anhedonia so that I can properly address it.  This claim right here in my post is something I came up with entirely on my own.  However, the claim in my opening post was something made by another user on another forum who suffered from anhedonia and tried to help many others who also suffered from anhedonia:

 

http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/83323-answers-to-curing-anhedonianumbnessapathy-no-1/

Edited by MattMVS7
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When I say your suffering is not incidental, I mean it is not unimportant. That is the only thing I mean.

 

Your suffering matters and it is important to seek solutions.

 

And here on CrazyBoards, we ask people to cite reputable sources when they are proposing facts or solutions so that other people can also investigate.

 

And it is difficult to infer tone from text only.

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Asking for people to cite sources for their claims of fact is completely unrelated to one's desire or ability to be a compassionate individual.

 

It is simply seeking to make sure we are putting out factual information for people who read the boards here.

 

Your suffering is not incidental.

 

Many people here suffer with the same symptoms and seek solutions. 

 

Your questions are not unreasonable. Addressing or answering your questions to try to clarify your thinking does not negate your suffering.

 

You would be right in saying that others asking these questions does not make them less compassionate people.  However, the tonality in which these people ask these questions is what determines whether they are fully compassionate people or not.

 

Now what do you mean by saying that my suffering is not incidental?  Do you mean that my anhedonia just happened spontaneously without any stressful event in my life that caused it to happen?  If that is what you are saying, then this would be false.  I had a severe panic disorder in the past and immediately when I felt that this panic disorder might last my entire life and that it could get very severe to the point of hospitalization, that caused me severe chronic depression at the same time as well.  Immediately when I experienced this severe chronic depression, the panic from this panic disorder has completely shut down and my ability to experience pleasure was also a bit shut down as well.  However, when this severe chronic depression went away completely, that is when my ability to experience pleasure also completely shut down with my panic as well.  Now both my panic and pleasure are completely shut down.  Therefore, that severe chronic depression I had in the past was the cause of this anhedonia.

 

However, I am thinking that if I didn't have this panic disorder at all and that I just had the severe chronic depression alone, then I wouldn't have this anhedonia at all.  I am thinking this because I never had anhedonia in my entire life and I have had many moments of severe and chronic depression in my life and they have never caused anhedonia to any given degree either.  Therefore, that panic disorder being there must of had something to do with my anhedonia happening.  Perhaps having two chronic stress responses happening at once is never a good thing and can disrupt one another and cause anhedonia as a result (maybe they can only disrupt one another when one of these stress responses is severe enough and also when these two stress responses are both at the proper level of severity that would be necessary to cause anhedonia).  Therefore, since I had a chronic panic disorder in the past and since I then had chronic depression that was severe at that same time, this chronic depression was severe enough to disrupt the panic stress response in my brain which resulted in an abnormal physiological change in my brain (which would be the anhedonia).

 

Now why is it that I am making all of these claims with no scientific evidence to back them up?  It would be because I am trying to find out what the problem is and what caused my anhedonia so that I can properly address it.  This claim right here in my post is something I came up with entirely on my own.  However, the claim in my opening post was something made by another user on another forum who suffered from anhedonia and tried to help many others who also suffered from anhedonia:

 

http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/83323-answers-to-curing-anhedonianumbnessapathy-no-1/ You make a bleepload of assumptions. And correlation is not the same thing as causation. As someone who currently is experiencing anhedonia, I feel for you. But you should probably step back and stop trying to over-analyze everything. It is entirely possible for anhedonia to come out of nowhere, or at least out of another flavor of depression. You are searching for a quick and easy fix where one might not be forthcoming. Rather than lecturing us about your theories of the origin of your anhedonia, why don't you describe what you feel (or don't), why it sucks so much, and which treatment(s) you found successful or not? This is a support site, not a platform to launch academic ambitions or wax on philosophically about what causes this, that, or the other. I also suggest you also shorten your replies. A lot of people here will have their eyes glaze over when they see a long post, especially if it doesn't conform to the nature of the site.

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