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Killed over parking?


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I suppose the NRA viewpoint is that the victims should have been packing.

 

No, the NRA viewpoint is that people shouldn't steal parking spaces.

 

Who said anyone stole a parking space? They just said there was a dispute.

 

I agree with ovOidampUle. I don't think he went hunting Muslims, but I think he though of them as "others."

 

I really hate that he was an atheist, on Facebook people are talking about that as if it were a driving factor. I just don't hear about atheists killing people because they are believers.

 

And some of my friends have actually talked about atheists as if they were an entity, as if I am related to this guy somehow. One of them is Muslim! You would think he would know better than to make sweeping generalizations. I guess you can be an asshole whatever your beliefs.

 
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I don't know, crt... When I read Sam Harris' first book, I was disturbed by what I saw as his Islamophobia. I remember reading apologia for torturing muslims: those crazy muslims were so divorced from reality that they were going to get a nuclear weapon and destroy the planet and end life as we know it; it's to the greater good to torture them. Atheism is no more pure or monolithic than Deism. There are many things you can believe under the banner of (...).

I'm open to the possibility that this guy's particular brand of atheism contributed to his Islamophobia. Do I want to hear about it from Christians who are using this to demonize atheism while ignoring the 'glass parking lot' brigade in their own ranks? Not really.

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I guess you can be an asshole whatever your beliefs. 

 

 

sadly, yes.  one of the nastiest people i've ever known claimed to be buddhist.

 

and this guy, who killed the young students? gives atheists a bad name. 

 

(i lean more 'agnostic' than 'atheist' these days.  but when i was an atheist i never killed anyone, either. )

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I don't know, crt... When I read Sam Harris' first book, I was disturbed by what I saw as his Islamophobia. I remember reading apologia for torturing muslims: those crazy muslims were so divorced from reality that they were going to get a nuclear weapon and destroy the planet and end life as we know it; it's to the greater good to torture them. Atheism is no more pure or monolithic than Deism. There are many things you can believe under the banner of (...).

I'm open to the possibility that this guy's particular brand of atheism contributed to his Islamophobia. Do I want to hear about it from Christians who are using this to demonize atheism while ignoring the 'glass parking lot' brigade in their own ranks? Not really.

Well said. 

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I don't know, crt... When I read Sam Harris' first book, I was disturbed by what I saw as his Islamophobia. I remember reading apologia for torturing muslims: those crazy muslims were so divorced from reality that they were going to get a nuclear weapon and destroy the planet and end life as we know it; it's to the greater good to torture them. Atheism is no more pure or monolithic than Deism. There are many things you can believe under the banner of (...).

I'm open to the possibility that this guy's particular brand of atheism contributed to his Islamophobia. Do I want to hear about it from Christians who are using this to demonize atheism while ignoring the 'glass parking lot' brigade in their own ranks? Not really.

Sam Harris is not "atheists." He is *an* atheist. He and Bill Maher are both big assholes about sweeping generalizations they make about Muslims.

 

I was an atheist before I knew who either of them was. I don't care about others' beliefs, I just am not a believer. I get hassled with some regularity. When I lived in West Virginia, I even got a bad reaction for not belonging to a Church. So far, I haven't killed anyone. And to be fair, neither has Sam Harris.

 

And your saying it's not monolithic was actually kind of my original point.

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By the time the police arrived, three people were dead — a newlywed couple and the woman’s sister. They were young university students, Muslims of Arab descent,

 

What gets to me a little is that who cares if they were Muslims of Arab descent ... enough to specify it in an article ... like if they were American descent, you probably wouldn't see it say, "They were young university students, American descent ..."  Just a thought.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/us/muslim-student-shootings-north-carolina.html

They were really nice people.

This guy murdered them for what appears to be an amazingly dumb reason.

 

Yes, if "reason"came into it.

There's more to come on this.  If he was as he self-describes* and an anti-theist, he against all odds attacks three Muslims in a country that contains a vast preponderance of Christian theists.

I am waiting to see a fuller picture.

 

*and we should believe a murderer why, exactly?

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*and we should believe a murderer why, exactly?

Hmm...well, he has nothing to gain by lying, since a ton of people witnessed him doing it...

Actually, it was his wife who said he was not a bigot, I think?

Which is not true, as he has posted statements indicating he hates theists...that's pretty bigoted of him.

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From what I've read about this, I think it really was over parking.  He tried to have cars towed from that lot so many times that no towing service in the city would take his calls anymore.  He was obsessed with it.   He came to the apartment where the people were shot with a gun to complain about extra cars in the lot and noise at least once before.  

Based on the guy's facebook posting history, he just hated Christians and had nothing against other religions.  

I mean, seriously.  He previously harassed the people he killed about parking while holding a gun, most likely the one used in the murders.  

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I suppose the NRA viewpoint is that the victims should have been packing.

 

No, the NRA viewpoint is that people shouldn't steal parking spaces.

 

Who said anyone stole a parking space? They just said there was a dispute.

 

I agree with ovOidampUle. I don't think he went hunting Muslims, but I think he though of them as "others."

 

I really hate that he was an atheist, on Facebook people are talking about that as if it were a driving factor. I just don't hear about atheists killing people because they are believers.

 

And some of my friends have actually talked about atheists as if they were an entity, as if I am related to this guy somehow. One of them is Muslim! You would think he would know better than to make sweeping generalizations. I guess you can be an asshole whatever your beliefs.

 

 

 

I'm just trying to verbalize the twisted logic of the NRA. Wouldn't surprise me if they wouldn't come on TV saying that people shouldn't steal parking spaces.

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I just watched an interview with the dead husband's sister. She said she walked by the parking lot, and their car is still parked in the correct spot. Their roommate says that he had mocked the sisters for their dress.

 

I understand what you are saying VE, but I notice he didn't shoot anyone else, all of whom were potential "violators." Also, he claimed a visitors' spot next to his assigned spot, and warned people away from it, even though the Condo association told him he couldn't do that. He said it was his wife's spot.

 

Also, the victims had drawn up a map for their family and friends to make sure they didn't park in the disputed visitors' spot.

 

How could this be merely a parking dispute if the family only had one car, and it was parked in its assigned space? The space was next to his, but it was the visitor's space he was intent on "protecting." I don't doubt that parking could have caused antagonism, but they weren't "invading" his space(s) when he killed them.

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I'm surprised that others are surprised that people could be shot and killed over a parking space. People are killed for much less every day.

 

I don't believe that this is a straight hate crime. Chapel Hill is has a very large Muslim population, and if religious hate was the sole purpose of this crime then I think many more would have been killed and probably a long time ago. 

 

Also want to point out that like most apartment complexes, you are assigned a single parking space; which even many families have more than one car let alone a shared dorm (even if you have a single car, it doesn't stop other places with multiple cars taking other spaces leaving you to park elsewhere). When you have many apartments in an apartment complex with only 1 assigned parking place and have 2-4 cars per family, there are parking issues. Many times it's "who gets home first gets their original space - the late worker gets to take a walk".

 

Is it worth killing over? Fuck no. But remember, not all people are as stable, or rational as others. And this middle aged family man was enraged, and felt repeatedly "violated" from 3 college kids. I do think this is a tragedy, and completely uncalled for. But I also think there is more to this story than just a religious hate crime.

Edited by Sloane
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I just watched an interview with the dead husband's sister. She said she walked by the parking lot, and their car is still parked in the correct spot. Their roommate says that he had mocked the sisters for their dress.

 

I understand what you are saying VE, but I notice he didn't shoot anyone else, all of whom were potential "violators." Also, he claimed a visitors' spot next to his assigned spot, and warned people away from it, even though the Condo association told him he couldn't do that. He said it was his wife's spot.

 

Also, the victims had drawn up a map for their family and friends to make sure they didn't park in the disputed visitors' spot.

 

How could this be merely a parking dispute if the family only had one car, and it was parked in its assigned space? The space was next to his, but it was the visitor's space he was intent on "protecting." I don't doubt that parking could have caused antagonism, but they weren't "invading" his space(s) when he killed them.

 

They had friends over to play Risk who talked loudly and used too many parking spaces.

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When? They weren't there at the time of the shooting, and didn't he even display a weapon at that encounter as well? But still, no shooting. And he apparently thought everyone made too much noise. There had been meetings about him.

 

Everyone in the place was worried about him, why did he finally decide to attack those particular people, and kill them execution style? He didn't go in and spray the place with bullets. Not that that would have been better, but using a method of execution shows pre-meditation, not a loss of control.

 

But I also want to know how he got away walking around and menacing people with a weapon. Again, police anyone?

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