Diazepam versus clonazepam for sleep

[Breenn]

Currently taking clonazepam and I'm in the process of making a decision regarding benzos.

 

What do people here find most effective for falling asleep and duration of sleep, long term (not just the first few days): diazepam or clonazepam ?

 

In theory: 1 mg clonazepam= 20 mg diazepam

[Destro]

Restoril is pretty strong too.  At least in my experience.

[jt07]

Yeah, you really want a hypnotic for sleep. Both of the benzos you are considering are really tranquilizers and not generally classified as hypnotics.

[Breenn]

Well, since I was taking lorazepam (big mistake, dependence, hard to tolerate) I need to taper anyway.

Actually I went from clonazepam to lorazepam for a 'taper'  per my docs suggestion but that was insane anyway.

 

I have to taper. My choice appears to be diazepam or clonazepam.

Doc is fine with both.

 

Your experiences with either/both ?

 

Restoril/temazepam is fine for sleep, but it's a hypnotic and I really can't taper from lorazepam/clonazepam to temazepam !

[jt07]

I think you are making way too much out of a clonazepam taper. It's not that horrendously difficult for most people unless you are on an insanely high dose. What is your dose?

[water]

I tried benzos for sleep after ambien gave me IBS.

 

First up was Restoril. It was WAY too strong for me. I felt drugged the next day no matter how much I took.

Then I tried Xanax - alprazolam. I cut the .5 in half and it was perfect. Now I am getting a .25 pill. I use the brand,they always seem to work better for me.

 

I also take valium but not as a sleepaide, for panic attacks.

However, valium makes me very sleepy so on occasion, I use it as a sleep aide as well.

I also have the smallest dose of valium - 5 mg.

 

However, every single med can react differently for different people.

My pdoc told me once that for every common side effect, she has patients who experienced the exact opposite.

[larkspur]

 

I also have the smallest dose of valium - 5 mg.

 

IIRC, Valium comes in 2mg tablets as well.

[water]

 

 

I also have the smallest dose of valium - 5 mg.

 

IIRC, Valium comes in 2mg tablets as well.

 

And it also has a heart cutout!

thank you.  for some reason my pdoc didn't tell me.

she always writes a new med at way too high a dosage.

The Restoril was horrific. I couldn't walk and almost took myself to the ER.

I am very sensitive to meds

[KillBytes]

benzo's alone were never that good for me for falling asleep and staying asleep. I use to use ambien to fall asleep and seroquel to help me stay asleep. Unfortunately my pdoc did not want me to stay on ambien and klonopin at the same time and asked me to chose which to drop. I dropped the ambien because klons are very important for me for anxiety. Now I just use hydroxyzine to help me fall asleep.

[melissaw72]

 

benzo's alone were never that good for me for falling asleep and staying asleep.

 

Same with me.  They just help with anxiety.  I've even tried taking a higher dose (in the past) to get to sleep, and all it did was make me groggy and still unable to sleep.

[Breenn]

I think you are making way too much out of a clonazepam taper. It's not that horrendously difficult for most people unless you are on an insanely high dose. What is your dose?

 

2 mg a day, a single dose. 

 

But I've taken it for so many years and the drug has all sorts of mixed effects. 

 

It's not just sedating, it also has an energizing component.

When trying to taper I get horrible gastointestinal issues these days, but I've learned that countering those 'side effects' causes other problems !

 

 

benzo's alone were never that good for me for falling asleep and staying asleep.

 

Same with me.  They just help with anxiety.  I've even tried taking a higher dose (in the past) to get to sleep, and all it did was make me groggy and still unable to sleep.

 

 

If I may ask, what was helpful for sleep ?

[melissaw72]

Nothing helps with sleep.  I have an odd sleeping schedule; I sleep more or less whenever I can, and hope I get enough sleep during the day so I don't get overtired.

[KillBytes]

Ambien plus seroquel was my favorite cocktail!

 

The ambien would help me fall asleep,

 

and the seroquel would help me stay alseep.

 

By themselves they did nothing, but together worked very well.

[uncomfortable thoughts]

In theory: 1 mg clonazepam= 20 mg diazepam

​Well, I don't think so.

Those benzo charts are very contradictories and this particular information that you brought up in my opinion is one of the most "off the charts" that I've seen.

You said you're currently using clonazepam? How much do you take and how is your sleep quality on it?

It's possible using low potency benzos successfully and sleeping and after a while you can even quit the habit.

This depends on your discipline, after a while your use can be limited for only when things are out of hand.

I'm not here to say what's right from wrong or even can say what's better for you, but you got to believe in neuroplasticity, your tolerance or dependance towards benzos can be reversed. 

If you mix your benzo with another central nervous system depressant (this include alcohol) the chances are that it's going to be harder for you to get some natural or low dose/potency benzo sleep, but not impossible.

I used clonazpam and valium, for almost five years each, in this time I've always took breaks and the esyiest ones were from valium, last year I got some Akathisia and I was put on 30mg of valium a day. (3 pills of 10mg). That's a high dose, If I recall correctly that went on for three months on this 30mg a day and  after that switched to 20mg for two weeks and 10mg for less than a month and I didn't have a single withdrawal symptom.

Last time I quit clonazepam was in 2013, I was taking maximum of 1mg or 2mg a night, both low dosages, for less than five months, before stoping I did a two weeks on 0.5 a night and I had withdrawal symptoms. The sunlight was painful, I had exaggerated reactions I was constantly on the edge and easily "scared" and it wasn't the first time that I quit clonazepam. I had a previously worst experience but at that time my doses were up to 6mg (3 pills) a day and that went on for almost one year on that dosage, after tapering I started self medicating with alcohol, I become aggressive and had an angry type of anxiety for a while, I decided quit drinking but I still had insomnia and was angry all the time, took me some months to become "nice" again.

The differences on the effects between diazepam 10mg and cloazepam 2mg are so subtle that they are almost subjective but for me doesn't pay off the withdrawal symptoms that I have with clozepam, so, I choose diazepam. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by uncomfortable thoughts

[melissaw72]

I think you are making way too much out of a clonazepam taper. It's not that horrendously difficult for most people unless you are on an insanely high dose. What is your dose?

​Klonopin taper for me was hell.  I was going down 0.25 mg every 2 weeks (on average) to get down to 1 mg.  It was very difficult.  I was on 3-4 mg.  I'm now on a lower dose, but it took me awhile to get there.

[quiet storm]

I think you are making way too much out of a clonazepam taper. It's not that horrendously difficult for most people unless you are on an insanely high dose. What is your dose?

Klonopin taper for me was hell.  I was going down 0.25 mg every 2 weeks (on average) to get down to 1 mg.  It was very difficult.  I was on 3-4 mg.  I'm now on a lower dose, but it took me awhile to get there.

I'd consider 3-4mg a day a fairly high dose.

[melissaw72]

I think you are making way too much out of a clonazepam taper. It's not that horrendously difficult for most people unless you are on an insanely high dose. What is your dose?

Klonopin taper for me was hell.  I was going down 0.25 mg every 2 weeks (on average) to get down to 1 mg.  It was very difficult.  I was on 3-4 mg.  I'm now on a lower dose, but it took me awhile to get there.

I'd consider 3-4mg a day a fairly high dose.

You're right, but the taper would not have been any different had I been on less.

[quiet storm]

In theory: 1 mg clonazepam= 20 mg diazepam

Well, I don't think so.

Those benzo charts are very contradictories and this particular information that you brought up in my opinion is one of the most "off the charts" that I've seen.

You said you're currently using clonazepam? How much do you take and how is your sleep quality on it?

It's possible using low potency benzos successfully and sleeping and after a while you can even quit the habit.

This depends on your discipline, after a while your use can be limited for only when things are out of hand.

I'm not here to say what's right from wrong or even can say what's better for you, but you got to believe in neuroplasticity, your tolerance or dependance towards benzos can be reversed. 

If you mix your benzo with another central nervous system depressant (this include alcohol) the chances are that it's going to be harder for you to get some natural or low dose/potency benzo sleep, but not impossible.

I used clonazpam and valium, for almost five years each, in this time I've always took breaks and the esyiest ones were from valium, last year I got some Akathisia and I was put on 30mg of valium a day. (3 pills of 10mg). That's a high dose, If I recall correctly that went on for three months on this 30mg a day and  after that switched to 20mg for two weeks and 10mg for less than a month and I didn't have a single withdrawal symptom.

Last time I quit clonazepam was in 2013, I was taking maximum of 1mg or 2mg a night, both low dosages, for less than five months, before stoping I did a two weeks on 0.5 a night and I had withdrawal symptoms. The sunlight was painful, I had exaggerated reactions I was constantly on the edge and easily "scared" and it wasn't the first time that I quit clonazepam. I had a previously worst experience but at that time my doses were up to 6mg (3 pills) a day and that went on for almost one year on that dosage, after tapering I started self medicating with alcohol, I become aggressive and had an angry type of anxiety for a while, I decided quit drinking but I still had insomnia and was angry all the time, took me some months to become "nice" again.

The differences on the effects between diazepam 10mg and cloazepam 2mg are so subtle that they are almost subjective but for me doesn't pay off the withdrawal symptoms that I have with clozepam, so, I choose diazepam. 

Just about every chart out there equates 1mg of clonazepam to 20mg of valium. It's not hard to see why you had withdrawals coming off clonazepam and not valium. You actually took more time ramping down off of the longer acting benzo(valium) than the shorter acting one(clonazepam).

You say you took 1-2mg of clonazepam, abruptly dropped down to .5 for a couple of weeks and quit. Too damned fast.......

Then you were on 30mg valium(equal to 1.5mg klono), dropped down to 20mg(1mg klono) for two weeks, then dropped down to 10mg(.5mg klono) for around a month. And this is with valium(or more accurately its metabolites) having amuch longer half ife than clonazepam. Not surprising you didn't have any withdrawals.

 

Edited July 20, 2015 by quiet storm

[uncomfortable thoughts]

In theory: 1 mg clonazepam= 20 mg diazepam

 

Just about every chart out there equates 1mg of clonazepam to 20mg of valium. It's not hard to see why you had withdrawals coming off clonazepam and not valium. You actually took more time ramping down off of the longer acting benzo(valium) than the shorter acting one(clonazepam).

You say you took 1-2mg of clonazepam, abruptly dropped down to .5 for a couple of weeks and quit. Too damned fast.......

Then you were on 30mg valium(equal to 1.5mg klono), dropped down to 20mg(1mg klono) for two weeks, then dropped down to 10mg(.5mg klono) for around a month. And this is with valium(or more accurately its metabolites) having amuch longer half ife than clonazepam. Not surprising you didn't have any withdrawals.

 

Well, Clonazepam isn't a short acting benzo and actually takes longer to start the effects than Diazepam.

If i take 30mg of valium at once will not be equal at 1.5 of klonopin.

That's me.

In a short treatment using clonazepam two weeks on .5 isn't fast.

Still, 

That's me and my doctor.

It's a personal experience and everyone reacts differently to drugs, so in my opinion a benzo chart is useless, it's just an advice in a personal experience based in my own life.

The half life of both, on the principle metabolites just varies hours, imagine that each and everyone has a different organism and those trials are probably an estimated number. 

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[quiet storm]

In theory: 1 mg clonazepam= 20 mg diazepam

 

Just about every chart out there equates 1mg of clonazepam to 20mg of valium. It's not hard to see why you had withdrawals coming off clonazepam and not valium. You actually took more time ramping down off of the longer acting benzo(valium) than the shorter acting one(clonazepam).

You say you took 1-2mg of clonazepam, abruptly dropped down to .5 for a couple of weeks and quit. Too damned fast.......

Then you were on 30mg valium(equal to 1.5mg klono), dropped down to 20mg(1mg klono) for two weeks, then dropped down to 10mg(.5mg klono) for around a month. And this is with valium(or more accurately its metabolites) having amuch longer half ife than clonazepam. Not surprising you didn't have any withdrawals.

 

Well, Clonazepam isn't a short acting benzo and actually takes longer to start the effects than Diazepam.

If i take 30mg of valium at once will not be equal at 1.5 of klonopin.

That's me.

In a short treatment using clonazepam two weeks on .5 isn't fast.

Still, 

That's me and my doctor.

It's a personal experience and everyone reacts differently to drugs, so in my opinion a benzo chart is useless, it's just an advice in a personal experience based in my own life.

The half life of both, on the principle metabolites just varies hours, imagine that each and everyone has a different organism and those trials are probably an estimated number. 

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

You're right in that clonazepam isn't a short acting benzo. Its considered long acting. Valium is even longer acting. Clonazepam has no active metabolites. Valium has several.......each of which have actually been marketed as separate benzos. The half life of clonazepam is 18-50 hours. The half life of Valium is anywhere from 20-100 and its major active metabolite is 36-200 hours. There is no comparison in duration of action. Especially when valium is the go to for a lot of people who want to get off clonazepam. 

Onset of action isnt my point. Which by the way, you also stated what most charts say in stating that Valium generally has a faster onset of action than clonazepam. I was just commenting on your experience of coming off both in your prior post. You took longer to come off a longer acting benzo and had no withdrawals. You took a lot shorter time coming off a shorter acting benzo and did. Clonazepam is potent. I'm just going by what you said. It's easy for me to see why you had problems coming off clonazepam the way you did and not Valium. 

But we're getting away from the original topic of this thread I think. Sorry if I derailed. 

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by quiet storm