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Just wanted to say happy new year everyone!!

OK, here we go...

I started Zyprexa yesterday. It worked amazingly for my anxiety, and I don't know if I should attribute that to the placebo effect or not. (Never underestimate the power of placebo!) But today I feel like a total zombie, I have no feelings whatsoever. Nothing bores me or excites me. Having ADHD, I usually need stimulation ALL THE TIME. Whereas now I'm perfectly content staring into a white wall. I think I'd rather be depressed than feeling like this. I feel so numb.

Maybe this is how "normal" people feel all the time? I mean I'm famous for my temper, but then again that is part of my personality. I don't wanna lose my personality, no matter how flawed it is. Oh, and I'm slow and tired and can't think straight. The only good thing is that it really shuts up my mind.

So here's the question:

I'm looking for a potent antipsychotic that is NOT sedating, weight neutral and will still let me be me. I've been doing som googling, but none of them seems to fit my needs. Risperdal seems like an option. Any other ideas? I'm not really scared of the typicals, so feel free to suggest them too. I already take Fluanxol, which is working but just not all the way.

Oh yeah, maybe I should include my symptoms:

Hypomanias, psychotic manias with hallucinations, anxiety, depression, ADHD, borderline-ish issues with abandonment.

Any help or suggestions would be welcome. My pdoc is clueless on what to do, while I'm sinking deeper and deeper into a depression. She actually listens to me when I come with suggestionns. I don't really get along with antidepressants, so that's not an option.

PS. I'm gonna double post this in the BP forum and in the Atypical forum, because I really do need replies. If any moderater minds, just delete one of them.

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WARNING! This is a total RANT. This post is coming from my persepctive as the wife of a person with BP...married for 19 years.

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You have only been on it for 2 DAYS!!!!!

Chill the hell out, give the meds time to work, and see after a FEW FREAKING WEEKS what kind of side effects linger. THEN you make med adjustments if you need too. If it makes you sleepy, that usually goes away after a while. If it makes you feel like a zombie, that also (usually) goes away after a few weeks. But right now, you are (in my opinion) just going through withdrawl from all those wonderful manic brain chemicals you have been stewing in. You are acting like a MANIC JUNKIE and you MISS YOUR FIX.

Am I ranting? YES!! Am I yelling? YES!!!

Why? Becuase this is the same kind of "logic" (I hate the side effects after 2 days BULL SHIT) my husband used after each time I had to have him put in the hospital. He would then totally stop meds and the BP roller coaster would start over again.

I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOU YEARS OF HELL!!!!!

You have a serious condition. THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES!!!! You need to take time, allow meds to work, and come up with a LONG TERM TREATMENT plan WITH your doctors. THAT TAKES LONGER THAN 2 FUCKING DAYS!!!

Of course, you are totally free to ignore everything I say, everything your doctors say, and completely fuck up your life. That is your choice. I just pray you do not marry and have children. That way you aren't going to be dragging innocent people along for the ride.

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I agree, two days is not really long enough to see if a med gets along with you. It does have a dampening sedative effect on the mind so you will feel like the living dead for the first week or so, I know that I did. However this will lessen and you will get back to a normal level.

Keep in mind that while being passionate and fun and bouncy is cool, being totally pyschotic or ADHD is not, and you are fooling yourself that you'd rather come off the meds and go back to being mad, because left untreated that kind of thing turns you from a passionate, fun, bouncy person into a total nightmare who cannot self manage, is hospitalised, and drugged even further to get her out of a crisis.

You have to make a choice which is better, give up a little of your sparkle and mental interestingness, gain a little weight and become able to handle life, OR continue to be all shades of mentally interesting and skinny, and live a chaotic life where you eventually crash and burn. The choice is yours. If you're borderline you may have a distorted image of what is going on (I'm borderline with psychosis so I'm not preaching anything I haven't been through) and expect the meds to be perfect right away, or reject meds because you have this strong held idea that they are bad, without being willing to try them. Likely that you don't even trust your docs, I know I don't  ;)   so you really have to be willing to work with people and meds.

Risperdal is an option, though it comes with it's own side effects. Amilsulperide may be another though I am allergic to it so it doesn't suit everyone. A mood stabiliser and an anti depressant may be another way to go if anti psychotics don't suit you, I am on Depakote and Lofepramine and am coping well. A mood stabiliser will stop the highs and lows, and an anti depressant will cause an overall higher mood level, so you will be happier and stay happier.

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Of course, you are totally free to ignore everything I say, everything your doctors say, and completely fuck up your life. That is your choice. I just pray you do not marry and have children. That way you aren't going to be dragging innocent people along for the ride.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, that is a little extreme.  And by a little extreme, I mean not appropriate.  Sounds like wifezilla could use a little Zyprexa.

My question would be, what is your current dose of Zyprexa?  My dumbass family doc gave me Symbyax 12/25 (which is 12mg of Zyprexa and 25mg of Prozac for those that don't know) when he thought I was bipolar.  One dose and I was unconscious for 18 hours and groggy for a day after.  And eating everything in sight for days afterwards.  From what I read after that, people usually start at 5mg.  Seems I am rather med-sensitive, so I usually have to start at the lowest recommended dose and work up slowly.  It usually takes about a month at a particular dose for the initial side effects to die down or get bad enough to stop taking the drug.  I would agree that you probably need to give it more time.  Zyprexa may or not be right for you, but you need to give it a little more time to find out.

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"Ok, that is a little extreme.  And by a little extreme, I mean not appropriate."

Really? How so? If you are an untreated bipolar, your illness WILL effect a spouse and kids. While it is not a person's fault that they have this illness, it is ENTIRELY their fault when they do not properly treat and manage their own illness and then drag other people (by either marriage or birth) into the mix.

Now, if you FULLY DISCLOSE the fact that you have this illness, do not like treatment, and someone marries you anyway, well that person was warned, and hopefully made an informed descision.

In my case, I did not know my husband was bipolar until after I gave birth to our second son. I was not informed. I did not get a choice. It was thrust on me. Personally, financially, and career-wise it has effected me. When he continued to deny treatment, it effected me. It effected our kids. He was a selfish bastard when he was manic. He could have easily lost his family because he wanted to hang on to his mania. If it wasn't for this site (and the honest frank discussions with other people with this illness) I would have left him after his last hospitalization.

Instead, I gave him a choice. Take care of your OWN illness. Stick with a pdoc and a tdoc and take your meds. Actively involve yourself in treatment or I am gone. If, DESPITE treatment, you still have problems, well, that is just life and covered under the "better or worse" clause of our vows. We will take care of it together. If, however, he stops seeing his docs and stops his meds...well...then he is just thinking about his own brain buzz and not the family HE helped create. In that case, I pack my shit.

"Sounds like wifezilla could use a little Zyprexa."

Really? Telling someone who is mentally ill and looking to flip meds in 2 days to chill out is irrational? Dillusional? A sign of illness? Telling someone that they should not drag other people into their personal hell is a bad idea and means I need meds? Trying to save someone almost 20 years of trouble means I have a problem? "Get your shit together BEFORE you get married and have kids" is advise I give ANYONE...MI or not. I have seen what messed up people do to their children. I don't care if it is because you are MI and untreated, an alcoholic, a druggie, or just dumber than a box of rocks...don't inflict your messes on others. Period.

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Hi Helana:

I am looking at your signature, and it says that you are taking 20mg of Zyprexa. I looked in my handy-dandy psychopharmacology book, Essential Psychopharmacolgy by Stephen Stahl, which states that, for Zyprexa, 5mg to 10mg is a typical starting dose, and 20mg is the maximum approved dose. So, it appears that you are dealing with a whole lot of Zyprexa to which your body must adapt in a two day time frame. Ouch. In addition, it looks like you are also still taking Abilify and Fluanxol, so that makes three antipsychotics currently in your system. Double ouch.

If you can find the energy and get the opportunity, please whack your pdoc upside the head for me. Well, a discussion about how the Zyprexa is affecting you might be more productive.

I asked someone who is normal, and she said that being "perfectly content staring into a white wall" is, in fact, not normal.

I am not going to touch the rest of the thread.

Best of luck.

Todd.

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"Ok, that is a little extreme.  And by a little extreme, I mean not appropriate."

Really? How so? If you are an untreated bipolar, your illness WILL effect a spouse and kids. While it is not a person's fault that they have this illness, it is ENTIRELY their fault when they do not properly treat and manage their own illness and then drag other people (by either marriage or birth) into the mix.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is inappropriate because that was not the case here.  Helena expressed that she didn't like the side effects of Zyprexa.  She never suggest going unmedicated.  She asked for opinions about other options, which indicates that she has no intention of not managing her illness.  Your comments were out of line and very insulting, in my opinion.  When someone asks for help, yelling at them and telling them they shouldn't reproduce isn't helping. 

"Sounds like wifezilla could use a little Zyprexa."

Really? Telling someone who is mentally ill and looking to flip meds in 2 days to chill out is irrational? Dillusional? A sign of illness?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, I shouldn't have said that.  I get rather sensitive about people advocating eugenics due to mental illness.  Doesn't change the fact that you overreacted due to your personal experiences. 

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Hi Helana:

I am looking at your signature, and it says that you are taking 20mg of Zyprexa. I looked in my handy-dandy psychopharmacology book, Essential Psychopharmacolgy by Stephen Stahl, which states that, for Zyprexa, 5mg to 10mg is a typical starting dose, and 20mg is the maximum approved dose. So, it appears that you are dealing with a whole lot of Zyprexa to which your body must adapt in a two day time frame. Ouch. In addition, it looks like you are also still taking Abilify and Fluanxol, so that makes three antipsychotics currently in your system. Double ouch.

If you can find the energy and get the opportunity, please whack your pdoc upside the head for me. Well, a discussion about how the Zyprexa is affecting you might be more productive.

I asked someone who is normal, and she said that being "perfectly content staring into a white wall" is, in fact, not normal.

I am not going to touch the rest of the thread.

Best of luck.

Todd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I hadn't even noticed the dose of 20 mg.  Holy cow!  I was taking 5 mg and was a zombie.  What if you asked your doc about going to 5 or 10 mg and seeing how it worked for you?  20 mg..... I'm surprised you're awake to even post......

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*****************************************************************

WARNING! This is a total RANT. This post is coming from my persepctive as the wife of a person with BP...married for 19 years.

*****************************************************************

You have only been on it for 2 DAYS!!!!!

Chill the hell out, give the meds time to work, and see after a FEW FREAKING WEEKS what kind of side effects linger. THEN you make med adjustments if you need too. If it makes you sleepy, that usually goes away after a while. If it makes you feel like a zombie, that also (usually) goes away after a few weeks. But right now, you are (in my opinion) just going through withdrawl from all those wonderful manic brain chemicals you have been stewing in. You are acting like a MANIC JUNKIE and you MISS YOUR FIX.

Am I ranting? YES!! Am I yelling? YES!!!

Why? Becuase this is the same kind of "logic" (I hate the side effects after 2 days BULL SHIT) my husband used after each time I had to have him put in the hospital. He would then totally stop meds and the BP roller coaster would start over again.

I AM TRYING TO SAVE YOU YEARS OF HELL!!!!!

You have a serious condition. THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES!!!! You need to take time, allow meds to work, and come up with a LONG TERM TREATMENT plan WITH your doctors. THAT TAKES LONGER THAN 2 FUCKING DAYS!!!

Of course, you are totally free to ignore everything I say, everything your doctors say, and completely fuck up your life. That is your choice. I just pray you do not marry and have children. That way you aren't going to be dragging innocent people along for the ride.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's pretty normal for someone newly diagnosed with BP to wonder what normal even is, having never experienced it.  It's pretty normal to wonder, "Hey, is this a bad side effect, or just the medication working?" Those are valid questions.  If you have never been there, it's not something you would understand.  I'm sorry your husband didn't disclose his MI to you before marriage. IMO, that doesn't give you the right to go off on Helena when she's trying to get information to better manage her illness.

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This isn't the only post she made. I read them all. Context people.

And in a site that promotes itself as being brutally honest...well...I am being brutally honest.

She will have a lot of people telling her "poor baby". I agree, something you need when things suck. But some times you need a kick in the pants.

I am glad she is getting both.

As for the eugenics comment...talk about over reacting...LOLOLOL

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I agree with Wifezilla, people with psychotic experiences and borderline tendencies frequently make snap decisions about their lives based on very little evidence and suffer for it.

If Helena is on two anti psychotics and has now been put on a high dose of Zyprexa then she must be pretty damn ill to warrant such medication, her Pdoc seems open to discussion rather than the bossy overmedicating type, so I doubt that he/she is just merrily overmedicating her, she obviously needs some serious help. We are strangers on a message board, her pdoc is a licensed medical expert. Go figure.

Like it or not, people can't always make informed decisions about med changes when they're seriously ill. I know people don't like hearing that and prefer this idea that they're self autonomous and all knowing in all circumstances. By definition mental illness distorts your perceptions and affects your decisions, and this includes medication choices. Sometimes we have to trust our pdoc for a week or so.

Actually I don't think it was *that* helpful for everyone to to freak out and post 'OMG! 20Mg! That's awful! Question that right now!' When people have done that to me on these boards, it has only made me less meds compliant and iller in the long run.

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Actually I don't think it was *that* helpful for everyone to to freak out and post 'OMG! 20Mg! That's awful! Question that right now!' When people have done that to me on these boards, it has only made me less meds compliant and iller in the long run.

Actually I know of 5 people who are on 30mgs of olanzapine...... I think that's the maximum dose according to my p-doc and he is a conservative prescriber of meds.... Although 3 anti-psychotics seems hella lot of meds....

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Actually I don't think it was *that* helpful for everyone to to freak out and post 'OMG! 20Mg! That's awful! Question that right now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think a starting dose of 20mg of Zyprexa is worthy of asking why. That is my opinion. I am not a medical professional, but I would ask a simple question of one who did not titrate me whatsoever when starting Zyprexa. Her pdoc is a medical professional, and knows a hell of a lot more than I do, but when, exactly, did we start accepting all pdoc decisions on blind faith and stop asking questions around here?

When people have done that to me on these boards, it has only made me less meds compliant and iller in the long run.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many people post here seeking other's advice, experiences and opinions with the caveat that they discuss any and all changes with their pdoc, and not taking your meds as prescribed is strongly discouraged. You are solely responsible for what you do with the information.

Todd.

Post edited for grammar.

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I'm not saying that because everyone here told me not to I stopped taking meds and it was their fault. Whether I take my meds is my choice and totally my own.

I am saying that it is nasty to be in a vulnerable position where you're just starting to be on seriously scary meds and have everyone come in with their oh-so-knowledgable opinions and start doomcasting about whether it is right for you. If I post for opinions and people give them, fair enough, but I am conscious that we all find different stuff helpful and sometimes we need tough love or sympathy or vice versa. The point about here is that Wifezilla is just as justified in her opinion as you or me, right?

20mg is a high dose in some cases, and as Blackbird points out, not in others. Again people who freaked out about 20mg were most often on 5mg or 10mg so go figure, it would seem a lot to them. I don't think anyone is saying Helena should not question her pdoc in a week if she is still zombified. But to be on a dose of an antipsychotic (and on others simultaneously) will knock you off. From what little info Helena has provided she seemed to need it at that point in time.

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Well, I just read through this post as I just got out of the hospital. Suicidal tendencies and other fun stuff.

Wifezilla: I respect your opinion but I do NOT respect the way you expressed it. It was plain rude and disrespectful. Period. And by the way, staring into the wall for hours is not a pleasant side effect, even if it goes away over time.

Sure, Zyprexa might have worked after a few weeks, I don't know since the doctors took me off it in the hospital. But I have a life to take care of. I can't not function for a couple of weeks, as I go to a very demanding school. Especially when there are other options that doesn't make me a zombie. I was looking for advice on other options, not a lecture on how I'm a bad person that shouldn't reproduce. I wonder, where in my post did I say I wanted to go off ALL meds? I've never intended that, just wanted to go off Zyprexa. I do NOT appreciate your rant just because YOU had bad experiences with a bipolar husband. Myself, I'm very open about my mental issues, I would never hide it from a boyfriend for example. I'm sorry your husband did hide it, but that's really not my problem. Since I assume you have never been on psych meds yourself, you simply do not know what you're talking about. You don't know what it's like to live with fucked up side effects. Next time, just SHUT UP. Please.

For the rest of you... Thanks for all the replies. My doctor agrees with me I was waaay overmedicated and decided to take me off a lot of the meds. Thankfully I could do that quite safely since I was in the hospital. The doctors in the hospital agreed Zyprexa probably wasn't for me. Instead of Zyprexa they upped my Fluanxol, and it's working wonderfully. I'm now only on Lithium, Concerta and Fluanxol. Feeling pretty damn good so far with tolerable side effects (tremor, memory problems). Zyprexa wasn't the drug for me, it was that simple. I'm sure it works for other people though.

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Hi Helena,

Risperdal was great for me, it controlled all my symptoms (BP1 w/psychotic features, huge anxiety, and zoning out). I just objected to milk flowing out of my breasts like I was a nursing cow or something.

Risperdal is also used off-label for attention issues. It worked well for mine. I have a problem with zoning out or having racing thoughts.

Keep the faith!

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Loon-A-Tik: Thanks, I was thinking about Risperdal myself actually. For now the Fluanxol cuts it but if something changes that I'll ask about Risperdal. Hmm, used off-label for attention issues. I had no idea, that's really interesting. I'll look that one up. If only it doesn't turn ME into a nursing cow. Eek, that must have been creepy.

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Helena,

This may well be a somewhat pointless post since I've never been on an anti-psychotic (even though I probably should be) but I just felt compelled to post and say that many people here including myself, support you all the way.

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