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1 hour ago, Wooster said:

Out of curiosity, what are your intentions and motivations?

With regard to what?

I can't go through with the stalking because that's wrong.

I can't die because that's wrong.

I can't leave because that's wrong.

I have been told all of these things are wrong. I have been told all of these things are things I should not do, that they will hurt people, so I can't do any of them. Over and over.

But I don't know what options are left for me.

As for insulting, that's because I don't take kindly to being repeatedly misgendered by cishet probably-white males, when my gender is literally listed right there, next to every post, and I've already corrected someone on it once in this very thread. I mean, fuck, I'm not even same-gender attracted. Talk about heteronormativity.

46 minutes ago, dazed and confused said:

If you continue on with this kind of behaviour you will end up losing her for good with no chance of ever getting her back. Is that what you really want?

That would be a fucking blessing, honestly. Lol. Then I wouldn't have to go through this shit anymore.

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9 minutes ago, Yuyu said:

With regard to what?

I can't go through with the stalking because that's wrong.

I can't die because that's wrong.

I can't leave because that's wrong.

I have been told all of these things are wrong. I have been told all of these things are things I should not do, that they will hurt people, so I can't do any of them. Over and over.

But I don't know what options are left for me.

As for insulting, that's because I don't take kindly to being repeatedly misgendered by cishet probably-white males, when my gender is literally listed right there, next to every post, and I've already corrected someone on it once in this very thread. I mean, fuck, I'm not even same-gender attracted. Talk about heteronormativity.

That would be a fucking blessing, honestly. Lol. Then I wouldn't have to go through this shit anymore.

What do you mean you can't leave? Can't leave her? This board? Something else?

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Just now, confused said:

What do you mean you can't leave? Can't leave her? This board? Something else?

Her, yes.

Anyone who is attached to me or relies on me, more generally.

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17 minutes ago, Yuyu said:

With regard to what?

I can't go through with the stalking because that's wrong.

I can't die because that's wrong.

I can't leave because that's wrong.

I have been told all of these things are wrong. I have been told all of these things are things I should not do, that they will hurt people, so I can't do any of them. Over and over.

But I don't know what options are left for me.

As for insulting, that's because I don't take kindly to being repeatedly misgendered by cishet probably-white males, when my gender is literally listed right there, next to every post, and I've already corrected someone on it once in this very thread. I mean, fuck, I'm not even same-gender attracted. Talk about heteronormativity.

That would be a fucking blessing, honestly. Lol. Then I wouldn't have to go through this shit anymore.

who has told you leaving a bad relationship is wrong? That it is better to stay when you are told to leave?

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2 minutes ago, Yuyu said:

As for insulting, that's because I don't take kindly to being repeatedly misgendered by cishet probably-white males, when my gender is literally listed right there, next to every post, and I've already corrected someone on it once in this very thread. I mean, fuck, I'm not even same-gender attracted. Talk about heteronormativity.

This one is about me lol. Even you're retarded when insulting and can't do it properly. As for the female thing under your picture: it doesn't show anything about your real gender. I was very clear about the misunderstanding regarding your gender. If you're that childish to understand then it's your problem and you should go seek help, if anyone accepts to. I'm not even white lol. What's even wrong with being white?. Is this considered as an insult nowadays?. You're not smart enough and making absurd arguments. All we want is to help you(I mean, I wanted to help you but now I only want to hurt you lol). So stop offending people and just appreciate their precious time replying on your stupid thread and comments. 

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4 minutes ago, confused said:

 

who has told you leaving a bad relationship is wrong? That it is better to stay when you are told to leave?

Her.

She would basically tell me to leave then act devastated if I tried leaving.

So I'm not leaving. Not even if she tells me to.

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Why ask for advice if your mind is made up? 

It is a bad idea. Good luck

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Just now, confused said:

Why ask for advice if your mind is made up? 

It is a bad idea. Good luck

How many times are you going to make me answer this question?

I know what options aren't available. I don't know what the remaining options are. That's what I'm asking.

You're just angry I'm not complying to your attempts to force me to take one of the options that isn't available. That doesn't fall on me.

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I am not angry. I just don't see another choice. 

All  you had to say is "Can we brainstorm for other options?"

i wouldn't encourage it, but you could give her the option to contact you so you wouldn't feel like you have closed the door,, but stop stalking?

i really have no idea what you are looking for.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, confused said:

I am not angry. I just don't see another choice. 

All  you had to say is "Can we brainstorm for other options?"

i wouldn't encourage it, but you could give her the option to contact you so you wouldn't feel like you have closed the door,, but stop stalking?

i really have no idea what you are looking for.

 

 

Okay. Can we brainstorm for other options?

And I have done the second. Last time this happened, I disappeared for a while, and it took a long time before we found each other again, though it seemed like both of us had been thinking of each other. Of course, I disappeared because I started to believe her when she said things were over. She was lying.

She is always lying.

I'm just not sure if leaving her a contact method and going quiet is the best move for her. I'm afraid that I'm going to be doing too much, or too little, regardless of what I do.

I know she's the one who's taught me to feel that way. I've heard it all before. People have been telling me she's evil, sadistic, bad, a bad influence, bad for me, crazy, etc. etc. for, literally, years. I don't care. I've heard it all before, and all it does is make me irritated. That's why I won't even broach the subject of her in therapy, even though sometimes she's the main thing I'd need help with.

So, again, I'm trying to figure out what I should do.

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I doubt this will help, as it seems like others have tried.  But a quick attempt.

But I'm starting to go into literally stalking someone for the second time and that's probably wrong, right? That's probably the wrong move, right? That's probably really bad and something I shouldn't ever do, right?

Your words.  Not mine.  Yours.  In this thread.

 

Mine: Yes, I agree.  Completely.  In fact, it's so wrong and so bad that it can end up being a crime in and of itself.  I'm not saying that yours are.  I'm also not saying that someone may not think they have good intentions.  Or that you're a horrible person or anything like that.  As BlurredBoundaries noted, it can happen.  But seeing it and then not stopping it is a problem.  A very big problem.  That's where therapists come in handy, because addressing it is well beyond a simple decision or two. 

You earlier said that you've both been told that stalking is a problem and that leaving and walking away is also a problem.  While it's true that leaving might be wrong in certain situations, it is not wrong when the alternative is a potentially criminal behavior. 

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1 minute ago, dancesintherain said:

You earlier said that you've both been told that stalking is a problem and that leaving and walking away is also a problem.  While it's true that leaving might be wrong in certain situations, it is not wrong when the alternative is a potentially criminal behavior. 

Possibly. That's why I'm talking about it here instead of resorting to potentially criminal behaviour.

But that also doesn't mean I'm leaving.

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I'm just not sure you have an alternative.  It seems like you're asking for an option C when there is no option C.  The middle ground of having a healthy relationship (i.e. not no involvement and not excessive one-sided over involvement) requires both people to be able to do it and to agree to it.  At a minimum, she seems to lack the capacity to do that and unwilling to do that.  I'm not sure about your ability or willingness, but given that she's not agreeing to it, that removes that option from the table.  So you're back with your two options again, for better or for worse. 

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2 minutes ago, dancesintherain said:

I'm just not sure you have an alternative.  It seems like you're asking for an option C when there is no option C.  The middle ground of having a healthy relationship (i.e. not no involvement and not excessive one-sided over involvement) requires both people to be able to do it and to agree to it.  At a minimum, she seems to lack the capacity to do that and unwilling to do that.  I'm not sure about your ability or willingness, but given that she's not agreeing to it, that removes that option from the table.  So you're back with your two options again, for better or for worse. 

I'm willing, but I honestly don't know how able I am either. I haven't even really been given the chance to try in a very long time, so.

But it sounds like you're basically saying I don't have any options here, at all?

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I'm not saying you don't have options from my perspective, I'm just saying that it sounds like the options you're left with are not ones that you're prepared to accept.  I don't see some sort of compromise position that you can unilaterally consent to, which is the big stumbling block to any alternative approach.  And trying to convince her to see it differently is likely a really bad call given past behavior (I can't guarantee that since I don't know either of you, but that's just how it seems based on what you're describing).

I think you do have choices--but unfortunately don't like them.  And I'd suggest that the legality of the situation weighs heavily in favor of one of your two choices (walking away).  That is a choice, it's just not one you like.  Maybe someone else can come up with some sort of Option C, but I can't see anything.  That doesn't mean you have nothing--it means you have to accept the ones you have.

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1 minute ago, dancesintherain said:

I'm not saying you don't have options from my perspective, I'm just saying that it sounds like the options you're left with are not ones that you're prepared to accept.  I don't see some sort of compromise position that you can unilaterally consent to, which is the big stumbling block to any alternative approach.  And trying to convince her to see it differently is likely a really bad call given past behavior (I can't guarantee that since I don't know either of you, but that's just how it seems based on what you're describing).

I think you do have choices--but unfortunately don't like them.  And I'd suggest that the legality of the situation weighs heavily in favor of one of your two choices (walking away).  That is a choice, it's just not one you like.  Maybe someone else can come up with some sort of Option C, but I can't see anything.  That doesn't mean you have nothing--it means you have to accept the ones you have.

Well, I'm more willing to break the law than to break my principles, so legality really isn't an important factor, here, for me.

I mean, basing one's morality off of what is legal and what is not is for people at the fourth stage of moral reasoning. I like to think I've grown beyond that stage.

Lol.

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Then stalk away and live with the consequences, if you don't believe it's morally wrong.  I'd suggest you do know it's not something to be done based on the quote from the first post in this sub-conversation.  However, if you believe that it's merely a legality issue and that deciding to stalk someone in contravention of the law is the more moral choice, have it.

 

No, that's not what I actually believe nor what I would recommend.  But it's about all you've offered and been open to in this entire thread.  I won't sign off on it nor will I stand by it.  But if it's the only choice you're open to, regardless of consequences, who am I to get in the way. 

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6 minutes ago, dancesintherain said:

Then stalk away and live with the consequences, if you don't believe it's morally wrong.  I'd suggest you do know it's not something to be done based on the quote from the first post in this sub-conversation.  However, if you believe that it's merely a legality issue and that deciding to stalk someone in contravention of the law is the more moral choice, have it.

It's not an available choice. If I thought it were the better option, I'd be going for it, but the information I've been provided with so far leans in favour of "don't fucking stalk people you asshole".

So I'm not doing it, even though I'm really struggling to figure out what I should be doing here.

Apparently, you're struggling, too. Maybe that helps you to understand why I had to ask for advice? Lol.

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If you're doing this because she can't cope with abandonment (reminds me of that saying I hate you, don't leave me) then you're not doing her any favours. Sure, abandonment can be really hard for some people and they don't know how to deal with it but not giving them that opportunity to learn how to let go emotionally will only make things worse in the long run. She needs to learn how to let go and to stop manipulating you emotionally because it's obviously having an effect on you. 

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3 minutes ago, dazed and confused said:

If you're doing this because she can't cope with abandonment (reminds me of that saying I hate you, don't leave me) then you're not doing her any favours. Sure, abandonment can be really hard for some people and they don't know how to deal with it but not giving them that opportunity to learn how to let go emotionally will only make things worse in the long run. She needs to learn how to let go and to stop manipulating you emotionally because it's obviously having an effect on you. 

You think pushing the baby bird out of the nest is the way to teach it to fly, until it slams into the ground and dies.

I don't believe in tough love, or the school of hard knocks, or "just learning to deal with it". Too many people can't fucking deal with it and ultimately end up dead or crippled because no one came for them when they called for help.

Besides, all the research says that the best way to help someone who is unstable is to give them something stable to hold on to. Unconditionally. So I'm trying. Even if I'm fucking bad at it, too.

And if I cared very much about what happened to me I wouldn't have all the scars and ER visits I do... Lol.

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