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Ahaha... This is amazing. This is fantastic.

I have a new account because I keep locking myself out of mine. Intentionally. i think I now have three accounts I'm locked out of on your servers.

But no, I finally realise it. I accepted being mentally ill or whatever, but it never really felt true until now. It felt like I was basically just making up a label for me being a little extreme about my feelings until now. Not actually ill or anything.

Now I see it. Now, I see why they say I'm crazy.

I'm literally stalking people. Again. And not just her. Now I've added another person to my list, and I'm stalking both of them.

Holy shit, I am fucked up.

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Part of Interpersonal Effectiveness is to "end hopeless relationships."  This is a skill that can be learned through Dialectical Behavior Therapy, although I'm sure you could do it without being in a

The moderating team has decided that this thread has been ongoing long enough and is only about your circumstance personally. Therefore would be best continued in a blog.  

Somewhat similarly, one of the benefits of being on a site with a relatively diverse set of people is that even if one person or many people may not be comfortable at any given point with helping out

Ok, I followed this thread for a while, and while beeing a bit rude and immature, you are not IMO a bad person. But you do mix arguments up to fit your desired and neads. Especially when interpreting her, and calling any other interpretion for false. Nmbr one rule of a relationship: Actions speaks volums, not the words people say. You have to look at what they really DO, not just what they say or have said. Thats how it works, really. you really have to learn how to stop making excuses. Your brain is so filled with words, history, feelings and theories right now, you are totally unable to grasp the simple truth: she doesnt want to be anywhere near you, and you shouldnt be anywhere near her. Most likely coz she knows its upsetting for the both of you, and therefore unhealthy for the both of you. Really love should not be upsetting like that at all. Trust me. Move on girl, better and more healthy relationships are wainting for you down the line. I really feel your pain and confusion, but that is why I called you a bit immature, coz really you need to learn to read other peoples actions better. And really, do you want to be in a relationship where someone who loves you, are sending mixed signals all the time and doesnt wanna be around you? Really, I think you deserve better. A journey right now sounds like the right thing, take the first plane to a hot, sunny place w lots of happy carefree people. Get away from this, its clearly overloading your nervous system completly, and unabling you to face the truth, its a common phenomena in a bad break up, and its called the denial phase. move on, you are now just making a trafic jam for yourself. And trust me, Ive been there, done that, and I know a thing or two about abusive and bad relatiionships, and love should never make you live through and endure what you are describing, never, for no reason ever, coz that just ain't the effect love's supposed to have on you. making you feel miserable like a * and beeing treated like garbage. Is that really how love is supposed to treat you? Your love is way more worth than that. I know a lot about love, Im sorry to be the one telling you how it is sometimes in love. Confusing, and not at all easy to sort out sometimes. Let us help you, advices all over this goup to let go is preatty convincing to me Im on the right track when you say you dont wanna be stalking her, nows the final step left, and you really should follow this advice, and even you dont seem to like the truth, you need to let go. IMO: Let go, move on, stop torturing yourself!

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1 minute ago, Beemray said:

Ok, I followed this thread for a while, and while beeing a bit rude and immature, you are not IMO a bad person. But you do mix arguments up to fit your desired and neads. Especially when interpreting her, and calling any other interpretion for false. Nmbr one rule of a relationship: Actions speaks volums, not the words people say. You have to look at what they really DO, not just what they say or have said. Thats how it works, really. you really have to learn how to stop making excuses. Your brain is so filled with words, history, feelings and theories right now, you are totally unable to grasp the simple truth: she doesnt want to be anywhere near you, and you shouldnt be anywhere near her. Most likely coz she knows its upsetting for the both of you, and therefore unhealthy for the both of you. Really love should not be upsetting like that at all. Trust me. Move on girl, better and more healthy relationships are wainting for you down the line. I really feel your pain and confusion, but that is why I called you a bit immature, coz really you need to learn to read other peoples actions better. And really, do you want to be in a relationship where someone who loves you, are sending mixed signals all the time and doesnt wanna be around you? Really, I think you deserve better. A journey right now sounds like the right thing, take the first plane to a hot, sunny place w lots of happy carefree people. Get away from this, its clearly overloading your nervous system completly, and unabling you to face the truth, its a common phenomena in a bad break up, and its called the denial phase. move on, you are now just making a trafic jam for yourself. And trust me, Ive been there, done that, and I know a thing or two about abusive and bad relatiionships, and love should never make you live through and endure what you are describing, never, for no reason ever, coz that just ain't the effect love's supposed to have on you. making you feel miserable like a * and beeing treated like garbage. Is that really how love is supposed to treat you? Your love is way more worth than that. I know a lot about love, Im sorry to be the one telling you how it is sometimes in love. Confusing, and not at all easy to sort out sometimes. Let us help you, advices all over this goup to let go is preatty convincing to me Im on the right track when you say you dont wanna be stalking her, nows the final step left, and you really should follow this advice, and even you dont seem to like the truth, you need to let go. IMO: Let go, move on, stop torturing yourself!

I don't care what she says she wants.

She has a long and storied history of fucking her own life up, deliberately, and not just in the context of relationships. Between the straight up self-harm, the substance abuse, the suicide attempts, the driving while abusing substances, the various impulse control disorder symptoms in general, the disordered eating, the lying to her psychiatrist to get on meds that don't help her (that SHE KNOWS don't help her) and then stubbornly resisting any attempts to get her off of them or actually be fucking honest with her psych for once, the refusal to consider therapy as a viable treatment instead of just continuing the dysfunctional misuse of psych meds/psych services in general, the direct resistance to attempting any of the evidence-based treatments for the memory problems she developed after ECT (no, really, if you suggest them she'll say "oh well i don't really care..." after spending W E E K S talking about how awful her memory is and how miserable it makes her), blah blah etc. etc.

Fuck her judgment, honestly.

And let's be honest, this is probably what she likes about me. The single-minded devotion and caring for her whether-she-likes-it-or-not. If it weren't, she wouldn't have started talking to me and opening up again after the first stalking episode, right?

So I'll give her exactly what she needs. If she needs to be controlled, if she needs someone to tell her she has no choice but to get better and protect herself, I'll do that for her.

She can pretend to hate me for it all she wants.

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Yes, I do know you love her, and probably so mutch you forget to do the right thing and take care of yourself. IMO she does not deserve you at all. And, your point of view is kind of "off", your aim is a little bit to the left, but almost bullseye. If she really loved you, she would have adjusted her behaviour to make you both happy. And really, IMO, its is almost next to impossible to change grownups, and its not your job to be her babysitter. At your age, she needs to be able to do this herself, and chanches are as she have not changed, she's not gonna. And there you are, sitting on the green branch looking intensly towards the stem not moving, with the fantastic view of nature and life waiting in the other direction. not to scare the daylights out of you, but there is one breed of birds almost instinct in this world, and that is those who cannot fly. To save yourself IMO you need to grow those wings and use them if I were you. Nobody is stopping you but your own thoughts and assumptions. Remember - she is keeping distance. That is not some secret message to you. That is a physical fact that you should not try to interprete as anything but what it is. You're headbanging a wall with all your emotions and interpretions of this situasion and her motives for keeping distance. Right or wrong, she IS keeping a distance for whatever reason, but facts are facts, and that is just the truth.

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1 minute ago, Beemray said:

Yes, I do know you love her, and probably so mutch you forget to do the right thing and take care of yourself. IMO she does not deserve you at all. And, your point of view is kind of "off", your aim is a little bit to the left, but almost bullseye. If she really loved you, she would have adjusted her behaviour to make you both happy. And really, IMO, its is almost next to impossible to change grownups, and its not your job to be her babysitter. At your age, she needs to be able to do this herself, and chanches are as she have not changed, she's not gonna. And there you are, sitting on the green branch looking intensly towards the stem not moving, with the fantastic view of nature and life waiting in the other direction. not to scare the daylights out of you, but there is one breed of birds almost instinct in this world, and that is those who cannot fly. To save yourself IMO you need to grow those wings and use them if I were you. Nobody is stopping you but your own thoughts and assumptions. Remember - she is keeping distance. That is not some secret message to you. That is a physical fact that you should not try to interprete as anything but what it is. You're headbanging a wall with all your emotions and interpretions of this situasion and her motives for keeping distance. Right or wrong, she IS keeping a distance for whatever reason, but facts are facts, and that is just the truth.

"""its almost next to impossible to change grownups"""

how's that for some conventional wisdom

You know, there's this funny thing about psychology and neurology research, where it curiously turns out that the brain tends to develop and function in the way you would expect according to the culture of the person whose brain it is.

Me? I believe the "adults can't change" is some bullshit westerners made up to excuse being stubborn as adults. So, yeah, no, that line isn't going to work on me. Behaviours are habits and habits can be changed. Period.

But honestly, your general attitude is a bit condescending, not to mention arrogant. I'm your intellectual superior, so can we, like, not do this, dude?

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5 hours ago, Wooster said:

You sound miserable.

This probably isn't what you want to hear, and I'll risk it anyway.

Honestly, it sounds like time to take care of yourself first. Get healthy.

Have you ever flown on a plane? You know how they say to put your own oxygen mask on first before you help someone else with theirs? Sounds corny, and also true.

 

Wooster has a really good point.  To take care of yourself before taking care of others. 

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21 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

Wooster has a really good point.  To take care of yourself before taking care of others. 

That's the one point I've never listened to, really.

I think I was budging on it, "getting better" about it, especially last year, but... honestly, the moment she walked into my life again, back in November, it was all about her. Immediately, completely all about her.

And I don't mind that at all. She deserves a lot better than she's getting, and than she's gotten, and having a goal in mind gives me the motivation I need to keep going.

ETA: Have a song. Oh my god, what is it with me and songs?!

 

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I doubt it you are my intelectual superior, since 100% of the advices you get in this thread is supporting my excact point of view. You're now acting like a good racecar with really good tiers, boldness, love, speed, everything is there, but your tiers are too wide, and you keep on driving in the tracks of a worn down road pushing the people you really should keep in your life away, keeping the bad apples, betting it all on a bad card. My educated guess is, you have done that before in many areas of your life, and Im pretty sure you feel inside like its everybody elses fault, while you know its yours, right?. IMO You really need to get grounded and start listening to some of the advices you get here. Ill leave you with those words.

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22 minutes ago, Beemray said:

I doubt it you are my intelectual superior, since 100% of the advices you get in this thread is supporting my excact point of view. You're now acting like a good racecar with really good tiers, boldness, love, speed, everything is there, but your tiers are too wide, and you keep on driving in the tracks of a worn down road pushing the people you really should keep in your life away, keeping the bad apples, betting it all on a bad card. My educated guess is, you have done that before in many areas of your life, and Im pretty sure you feel inside like its everybody elses fault, while you know its yours, right?. IMO You really need to get grounded and start listening to some of the advices you get here. Ill leave you with those words.

The mind of a god is incomprehensible to mortals.

Sit down.

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You recognizing your illness is HUGE. I really hope you move forward in getting help. Remember that being Mentally Ill does not equate to being fucked up, it means you have an illness that deserves to be treated like any other illness.

3 hours ago, Again said:

The mind of a god is incomprehensible to mortals.

Sit down.

Is why you believe you have the capacity to control and the ability care for a person who doesn't want your help?

Trying to "fix", care for, or control another person when they have absolutely no interest in reciprocating that energy is utterly exhausting. I was in a relationship like that for years, and I still get that heavy-chest feeling when I think about similar relationships.

Caring for someone so much that it destroys you isn't love and has nothing to do with being a good person.

Quote

this is about me trying to do something helpful for someone so i can feel like for once my entire life wasn't a fucking mistake

I understand how you feel like this, and why you think helping someone else despite them reaching out is the right thing to do no matter what the cost. But what you have to understand is that person can not give you what you are looking for. Stopping someone else from ruining their life will not make you feel whole, will not make you in control, and not fix any of your own past mistakes. Instead it will only make the hole you are trying to fill deeper, because all they will do is take until there (you) is nothing left.

And just FWIW, I completely agree that people have the ability to change their behaviors. However to change that behavior, it has to be recognized by that person as negative and they have to willingly put in the work to change it. Which is why you can support someone who wants to change, but you can never help (or make) someone change.

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2 minutes ago, Sloane said:

You recognizing your illness is HUGE. I really hope you move forward in getting help. Remember that being Mentally Ill does not equate to being fucked up, it means you have an illness that deserves to be treated like any other illness.

Is why you believe you have the capacity to control and the ability care for a person who doesn't want your help?

Trying to "fix", care for, or control another person when they have absolutely no interest in reciprocating that energy is utterly exhausting. I was in a relationship like that for years, and I still get that heavy-chest feeling when I think about similar relationships.

Caring for someone so much that it destroys you isn't love and has nothing to do with being a good person.

I understand how you feel like this, and why you think helping someone else despite them reaching out is the right thing to do no matter what the cost. But what you have to understand is that person can not give you what you are looking for. Stopping someone else from ruining their life will not make you feel whole, will not make you in control, and not fix any of your own past mistakes. Instead it will only make the hole you are trying to fill deeper, because all they will do is take until there (you) is nothing left.

And just FWIW, I completely agree that people have the ability to change their behaviors. However to change that behavior, it has to be recognized by that person as negative and they have to willingly put in the work to change it. Which is why you can support someone who wants to change, but you can never help (or make) someone change.

You can make people change.

Being forced to change is usually how people end up fucked up in the first place. There's no rule that says you can't force people to get better, too--the entire concept of "force" as being inherently negative is a very human, very limited, very unbiased point of view. One might even argue that force is exactly how we make people do "the right thing" to begin with--that's why we have things like laws, after all.

Everyone knows force is a tool that can be used to bring about either salvation or destruction. People just don't like to admit it because they're afraid of giving one person too much power. As it turns out, the fear of power is for those too weak to take it.

I'm not trying to fix her, though. She's not broken. A little rough around the edges, going down the wrong path, and eager to just burn out and crash, sure, but not broken. If she were truly broken, she wouldn't still be going at all. Broken things don't function poorly, they don't function period.

...

Anyway, no, gods don't necessarily have the power to do anything in particular. Gods necessarily have some sort of power or dominion, as it's unlikely they'd be considered gods otherwise, but there's nothing specific that has to be within their power or dominion to allow them to qualify as gods.

I have the ability to care for someone who "doesn't want my help" because I've chosen to have that ability. There are only two outcomes with me. Either I succeed, or I decide my path was mistaken and change course. Under any other circumstance, I won't accept failure.

"Impossible" is a word people use to excuse their own laziness.

...

And you may have guessed, but I've gone back on being crazy. I can see why people say it, but I don't think it applies in the least.

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You sound very disorganized and grandiose Again/Yuyu. This being an MI issue or not, maybe seeing a therapist can help guide you through all these thoughts and ideas? You don't have to talk about specific people or situations for therapy to be useful. I often see my therapist to help me guide my thinking process, including non MI related issues.

I know you don't agree with my POV, but I really wanted to point out the issue with force. You can make someone go to therapy, you can make someone go to rehab, you can prevent someone from killing themself. You can force someone to do a lot of things, but it won't make them healthy or change the way their brain works.

It simply just makes them do what YOU want them to do out of guilt or fear. That's not change or "salvation" that helps someone, that's just controlling someone's actions so YOU feel better. That has nothing to do with them, that's all about you. Benefits from "change" like that are often temporary for that person, as well as the sense of accomplishment that you feel when forcing help on someone. That is why force causes more "destruction" than "salvation". To change behavior, you have to rewire the brain. A person has to be willing participant in this process to successfully accomplish this. There is no forcing someone to rewire their brain, period.

You can't "choose" your ability to care for someone if your actual ability doesn't consist of the necessary tools and non biased outlook of her care.

I never used the word "impossible" and unsure what you are referring to.

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You can make someone go to therapy, you can make someone go to rehab, you can prevent someone from killing themself.

Certainly, and that's not what I mean.

Therapy is a consensual environment. Rehab is a consensual environment. The "preventing someone from killing themself" thing is more what I mean. Except, instill it in them to the point that they'll be too crippled to try if they do get the opportunity.

Learned helplessness is very context-dependent, after all. Leave someone feeling powerless to do the wrong thing, and they'll have to consider alternatives, whether they like it or not.

...Also,

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disorganized

Really? What do you mean by that? I can't see any gross disorganisation in my speech or behaviour.

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Instill it in them to the point that they'll be too crippled to try if they do get the opportunity? I'm the not sharpest tool in the shed as it is (and way too brain fogged today) to understand what this means.

Are you talking about you stopping someone from killing themselves, and after a while their thoughts will be changed to "I better not try because X person would be hurt"? If so, not hurting yourself out of guilt for someone else may be effective ITM but not mentally helpful long term. If that's not what you mean, then I'm lost.

No matter what, I still don't understand why you believe you have the ability to be her doctor. You are intelligent, no doubt. But your bias in this situation is a huge crutch, and potentially harmful. When trying to help, I really hope you also consider the harm you may cause. 

Quote

...Also,

Really? What do you mean by that? I can't see any gross disorganisation in my speech or behaviour.

What I mostly meant by "disorganized" is how this subject continues to shift directions. You talk about the need for control and how it benefits you, but also about being her voice of reason for her benefit. You talk about being mentally ill, and then denying it. You seem to have a lot of uncertainty on this subject; both your actions and thought process around this issue. And despite your ask for advice, you seem to have no intention of taking that advice to heart. These inconsistencies show in your posts and replies to other members.

Also, you comment on things without finishing your entire thought (or at least don't share it out loud), which make it difficult to follow. I have to fill in the blanks with my own information, which is particularly difficult if I don't know what you are referring to.

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2 hours ago, Sloane said:

Instill it in them to the point that they'll be too crippled to try if they do get the opportunity? I'm the not sharpest tool in the shed as it is (and way too brain fogged today) to understand what this means.

Are you talking about you stopping someone from killing themselves, and after a while their thoughts will be changed to "I better not try because X person would be hurt"? If so, not hurting yourself out of guilt for someone else may be effective ITM but not mentally helpful long term. If that's not what you mean, then I'm lost.

No matter what, I still don't understand why you believe you have the ability to be her doctor. You are intelligent, no doubt. But your bias in this situation is a huge crutch, and potentially harmful. When trying to help, I really hope you also consider the harm you may cause. 

I'm not trying to be a doctor. I'll leave the doctoring to the doctors. I guess you could say I'm trying to take on the role of a guardian.

Quote

 

What I mostly meant by "disorganized" is how this subject continues to shift directions. You talk about the need for control and how it benefits you, but also about being her voice of reason for her benefit. You talk about being mentally ill, and then denying it. You seem to have a lot of uncertainty on this subject; both your actions and thought process around this issue. And despite your ask for advice, you seem to have no intention of taking that advice to heart. These inconsistencies show in your posts and replies to other members.

Also, you comment on things without finishing your entire thought (or at least don't share it out loud), which make it difficult to follow. I have to fill in the blanks with my own information, which is particularly difficult if I don't know what you are referring to.

 

2 hours ago, confused said:

I am having some trouble following, also. You keep referring to god(s). Are you saying you are one?

Basically, the consensus here seems to be that my Theory of Mind is slipping--in other words, that my attentional processes seem to be scattered to the point that I'm incapable of processing information in a coherent manner, and it is negatively impacting my communication skills. I am not sufficiently cognitively organised to share information with others in a way that is fully intelligible, alternately leaving out information and including more information than necessary (that is, contradicting myself as a result of including parts of my thought process which are not strictly relevant to you, as they do not agree with my eventual conclusion). Additionally, my entire posting here seems to be more of a sort of stream of consciousness, but badly broken--I'm sharing my thoughts as they come, but only some of them, which makes my meaning especially difficult to parse.

Overall, it's a pretty classic presentation of disordered thinking which indicates some degree of neurological impairment, though the question of whether the cause would be classified as "organic" or "psychological" (as tenuous as the logic behind those categories may be) would require more information.

And yes, this is about how I'm speaking to people in real life at the moment, as well.

Interesting.

(I did tell you we were similar, didn't I, Ms. Girl-from-2014? This is me approaching my natural state. God knows your 2016 self probably won't like it, and I'm probably going to get worse from here. ...More than anything else, the hospitalisation crushed your confidence, and I really hate that.)

ETA: Ah, and yeah, that is what I'm saying. God may not be the exact right word for it, but it's the nearest approximation immediately available within my lexicon.

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...If I'm not entirely of sound mind,

or if my thoughts aren't entirely rational,

then how am I supposed to be of any use to her?

If I can't be of any use to her

then why

is she telling me it's not okay for me to die

but she doesn't want me to be present in her life either?

...

Am I honestly so fucking hopeless that this is how it has to be? That I can't be anything for anyone? That I can't have any relationship with anyone?

I already know that trying to live just for myself just leaves me feeling impossibly empty, so then why the fuck are you telling me I have to stay alive anyway?

I'm pushing away everyone who will stay with me because I don't want to become dependent on them and betray you, but

how am I supposed to live out the rest of my life with no hope, no company, and all of my fucking hobbies and interests overlapping with yours to the point that it's painful to even think of them?

 

i don't understand

if i have to live then

if i have to live then what am i supposed to do with my life

i'm not going to fucking betray you

i'm not going to replace you

i'm not going to """get better""" if it will lead me away from you

i said i'd stay so i'm going to fucking stay

but if you're not here

why

am i

here

 

i know that question doesn't mean anything

know i'm not worthy of your presence

i know i left you for nearly a week, and then smothered you for nearly a week, and then pushed you away because i was upset, and then

i know

i know i did everyone wrong and i know everyone leaves when i act like that

but you didn't leave

you spent so long not leaving, you spent so long with me and being understanding when i was really awful to you

and

i wanted to be able to support you the same way you did me

so why can't i do anything

and why did you end up leaving after all

and why is the fucking last message you leave me with that it's not okay to fucking kill myself when i don't have anything to live for

 

i've said it before and i'll say it again: this is why i'm hostile to the antidepressants

if you had tried to pull something like this in 2014 you would've had some fucking empathy and known you were putting me in a triple-bind and how cruel that was, but now you just go and do it and don't care in the slightest

guilt doesn't just hurt us

it tells us when we're doing something wrong

it doesn't exist to inconvenience us

it exists to prevent us from being horrible fucking people

and i thought you of all people would realise that

but i guess i was wrong

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of course, if that's not the cause, the next most likely cause would be the effect of serotonin on increasing harm aversion

in other words, she's now more likely to just leave when i do things that hurt her

which i do

all the time

which makes it basically my fucking fault

but hey, why would i admit that

why would i ever admit it's my fault

it's not like knowing it's my fault is why i'm crying or anything

nope, not at all

it's not like the reason i'm really lashing out and everything like this is because i feel powerless to fix it

nope, not at all

but there is one truth here

there is one absolute truth here

the reason i won't accept treatment, the reason i won't cooperate with treatment, is because i'm afraid it will take me away from you

and that's probably just more reason to cut me off in your eyes, isn't it?

that probably makes you think you're bad for me, doesn't it?

but what i'm telling you is that i'm even fucking less likely to accept it if you leave because when you're not here i'm even more scared and even more defensive and

i don't understand why you don't care

i know i'm too needy and demanding

i know i can't do anything right

and that's why i wanted you to stay

because you always fucking tell me when i'm wrong

so i don't understand

why that's too much for you

why you don't believe it will work

when i tell you it's already working

when i'm literally alive right now

when i've had chance after chance after chance to kill myself and i've hesitated too much, for too long, to go through with any of them

specifically because you told me not to fucking die

specifically because you told me trying to die was bad and hurtful and i fucking listen to you

why is it that when i listen to you you still just leave

why is it that even when i'm trying to be good you still just leave

i've never tried to be good for anyone

just you

i can't even help it with you

if you tell me to do something and i know you mean it i can't

go against it

and why does it seem like you don't care about that at all

or is it that you hate it

is it that that's what's wrong with me now

am i supposed to not listen to you?

what the fuck?

oh my god this is so pathetic

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I've decided.

The next time someone tries to get close to me, if all else fails, I will kill them. I will murder them. I will bury them.

This is not a joke, a threat, a promise, an ultimatum... or even a declaration, in the traditional connotation. This is a vow to myself, an act sworn to out of necessity.

If I kill someone for getting close to me, and make it known, that will be the last. At that point, finally, people will believe me when I say to stay the fuck away.

Finally.

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