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dragonfly23

Most fucked up thing a medical professional said to you.

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On 10/19/2016 at 11:32 AM, cloudmonger said:

I have heard of many people having a bad reactions to a particular SSRI's or other antidepressants. I don't get why many pdocs claim they never cause "intense" reactions like this? Isn't there a Black Box warning (especially when prescribing to children/young adults) that SSRIs can cause an increase in suicidal behavior or increase depression/distress/panic? Obviously, these are not "rare" or unheard of reactions....

I think it's negligent to base a diagnosis on an initial drug trial such as this. Especially without taking into consideration variables such as whether the person has ever taken a drug/medication before? Has the person ever experienced similar behavior WITHOUT being on medication? What are the person's environmental/life factors?

Oh man.. Paxil was prescribed to me by a gp doc for depression and it made the depression even worse. By the time I was diagnosed with bipolar, I'd already been on paxil about a year. And so when they tried weaning me off of it, I got really sick. It was terrible! So they had to start over with the weaning process, and make it even slower. That stuff is gross. I hate SSRI's and I refuse them if a pdoc ever wants to give me one. I take Wellbutrin, an SNRI that seems to work pretty well (along with lamictal).

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On 10/24/2016 at 10:26 PM, RoseRunner said:

When I was 15 I attempted suicide by overdosing on pain killers (paracetamol and ibuprofen) and seroquel and prozac. It didn't work (obviously!) but when I told my then pdoc about it a couple of days afterwards, he laughed at me and told me it didn't work because the seroquel and the prozac cancelled each other out. Thanks for the tip asshole! 

Seroquel is sometimes used to augment Prozac in depressed patients. Not sure what your pdoc was thinking when he said they cancelled each other out.

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On 11/3/2016 at 0:47 PM, jt07 said:

Seroquel is sometimes used to augment Prozac in depressed patients. Not sure what your pdoc was thinking when he said they cancelled each other out.

Not sure what pdoc was thinking either.

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"If you aren't going to take a higher dose, I'm thinking IP" ...

(He seems to be power hungry lately and if I don't do what he says then I risk IP).  It is a really fucked up, convoluted, and confusing problem lasting for a month or so now.

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34 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

"If you aren't going to take a higher dose, I'm thinking IP" ...

(He seems to be power hungry lately and if I don't do what he says then I risk IP).  It is a really fucked up, convoluted, and confusing problem lasting for a month or so now.

It's not  a reason to involuntary IP someone, is it legal to do it in your country if you are not about killing yourself or others?

 

In mine these are the two reasons they can involuntary inpatient you. If they do for another reason, when the forensic doctors comes and evalutes you and realize you weren't in danger o 'a danger', you can report the doctor that IP you against you will.

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4 hours ago, OliverB said:

It's not  a reason to involuntary IP someone, is it legal to do it in your country if you are not about killing yourself or others?

 

In mine these are the two reasons they can involuntary inpatient you. If they do for another reason, when the forensic doctors comes and evalutes you and realize you weren't in danger o 'a danger', you can report the doctor that IP you against you will.

You're right,  and I don't know what is legal or not.  But if he wanted me there he could just manipulate words in such a way that it would hint at why. (ie if I was on a low dose and I cried or got angry ... those were blamed on the low dose AP, then I might be screwed).  But if I was told involuntary I would just say I'll sign in myself and go voluntarily, so I wouldn't be stuck there for 10 days minimum.  But aside from that, I shouldn't be threatened with IP for anything right now.  There is no reason for it.

Thinking way ahead, how would I go about reporting a pdoc who put me IP unnecessarily for no reason? 

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29 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

Thinking way ahead, how would I go about reporting a pdoc who put me IP unnecessarily for no reason? 

I am not sure how it works where you live,  but here the forensic doctor who evaluates the involuntary person writes a paper and a judge decides if the IP is worth or not. If it is not you go free if you want to, and you can ask for the forensic doctor paper and the judge decision to report the psychiatrist saying the involuntary IP caused you psychological damage and you lost your job or laborable days, etc.

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1 hour ago, OliverB said:

I am not sure how it works where you live,  but here the forensic doctor who evaluates the involuntary person writes a paper and a judge decides if the IP is worth or not. If it is not you go free if you want to, and you can ask for the forensic doctor paper and the judge decision to report the psychiatrist saying the involuntary IP caused you psychological damage and you lost your job or laborable days, etc.

What is a 'forensic DR' ?

Ohhh ... unfortunately (at least with me)  there isn't the same thing that happens.  There isn't any DR who evaluates a patient, then writes a paper, and a judge decides if IP is worth it or not. And then move to whether you want to report the pdoc or not.  How I wish there was a system like this in place here. 

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Melissa, I'm pretty sure that you cannot be involuntarily committed unless you are a danger to yourself or others. There aren't enough beds as it is much less for people who don't want a certain med increase. It's even laughable that your doctor would pull that.

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1 hour ago, jt07 said:

Melissa, I'm pretty sure that you cannot be involuntarily committed unless you are a danger to yourself or others. There aren't enough beds as it is much less for people who don't want a certain med increase. It's even laughable that your doctor would pull that.

That was what I thought too.  I honestly think he would have said something to the DRs at the hospital how I was off meds and thought I'd do things that would get me in trouble.  ie (and this the exact example he gave me):  He assumed that I was going to go upstairs and bang on the people's door who makes all the noise, they call the police, they come and bring you to the hospital, etc.  

Pdoc said that if I wasn't going to take the abilify (after I was off of it, before the 5 to 15 mg dose change) then "I was thinking about IP." (quote from him).  So he would have manipulated the words and situation against me, to be a danger to others. I wouldn't put that past him, seeing how he was talking about it.  Thing is, I know I am not being paranoid because I have been observing all this, with him telling me this shit (except for the manipulated words).

And if there were no beds, I don't think he would have had a problem shipping to an actual psych hospital, one that I have had so many problems with, even though he agreed that he wouldn't put me there.

Everything I did was blamed on the low dose AP (at this point 5 mg), and when I say everything, I mean everything.  Including being angry (when advocating for myself ... he said I was "angry" when I honestly wasn't).  Also about me crying ... was all because of the low AP.  Every fuckin thing.  Right before I said ok to the 15 mg, he went crazy (last week) ... like he was desperate to make me do things that him and I had already talked about and decided it wouldn't help because I wouldn't go up in dose.  I mean I can't even describe what I was witnessing because I've seen him like that before. 

I asked him what would make this all go away, would it be to go on a higher dose of Abilify, and he said, "Well yeah ..."  (like Duh).  So I went on the 15 mg, but it was insane.  I see him this Thursday, and I have specific questions about last appt to ask because I still can't make sense of it.  And I think they will make him actually think.

I agree, it is all laughable (for me, looking back ... at the moments when all of it was happening, I was like WTF because things were going from one thing to another thing etc without a second in between.

Anyway, I could go on, but this is what is has been like the past 3-4 weeks. 

Sorry for the rant ... but he is being just so ridiculous.  I'm hoping this week's appt will go better.  But I have an agenda so I need to go.

 

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4 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

What is a 'forensic DR' ?

Ohhh ... unfortunately (at least with me)  there isn't the same thing that happens.  There isn't any DR who evaluates a patient, then writes a paper, and a judge decides if IP is worth it or not. And then move to whether you want to report the pdoc or not.  How I wish there was a system like this in place here. 

Oh... a  forensic DR is a DR who evaluates people and writes paper for the judge. I didn't know how to call it so I made a literal translation.

If you are involuntary nobody checks the involuntary is worth? Because if nobody does a pdoc could inpatient anyone for any reason.

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26 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

Pdoc said that if I wasn't going to take the abilify (after I was off of it, before the 5 to 15 mg dose change) then "I was thinking about IP." (quote from him).  So he would have manipulated the words and situation against me, to be a danger to others. I wouldn't put that past him, seeing how he was talking about it.  Thing is, I know I am not being paranoid because I have been observing all this, with him telling me this shit (except for the manipulated words).

Everything I did was blamed on the low dose AP (at this point 5 mg), and when I say everything, I mean everything.  Including being angry (when advocating for myself ... he said I was "angry" when I honestly wasn't).  Also about me crying ... was all because of the low AP.  Every fuckin thing.  Right before I said ok to the 15 mg, he went crazy (last week) ... like he was desperate to make me do things that him and I had already talked about and decided it wouldn't help because I wouldn't go up in dose.  I mean I can't even describe what I was witnessing because I've seen him like that before. 

I asked him what would make this all go away, would it be to go on a higher dose of Abilify, and he said, "Well yeah ..."  (like Duh).  So I went on the 15 mg, but it was insane.  I see him this Thursday, and I have specific questions about last appt to ask because I still can't make sense of it.  And I think they will make him actually think.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Sounds terrible - You put trust in a doctor to help you & look out for your best interests and they just threaten you & want to drug/sedate you so you won't object or argue with their opinion (OK maybe I'm exaggerating the situation a bit but I had a similar past situation when my doctor keep pushing me to increase antipsychotics when they were making me worse, more confused/messed up.) When I tried to explain several times the reasons why I was afraid/didn't want to increase dose, he accused me of being "angry or obstinate" and tried to write this "behavior" off as symptoms of my disorder...

I agree with jt07, pretty sure that you cannot be involuntarily committed unless you are a danger to yourself or others. There aren't enough beds as it is much less for people who don't want a certain med increase....

I hope your next appointment goes better. It sucks that you feel like you can't express how you feel because you are concerned about being "punished" by the psychiatrist and put into IP. There needs to be a conversation and reasonable exchange of ideas/options. At least I think this is how the relationship should work when you're paying $200+ per session for someone to help you!

 

Edited by cloudmonger
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51 minutes ago, OliverB said:

 

If you are involuntary nobody checks the involuntary is worth? Because if nobody does a pdoc could inpatient anyone for any reason.

Idk because I've never gone involuntary before. 

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52 minutes ago, cloudmonger said:

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Sounds terrible - You put trust in a doctor to help you & look out for your best interests and they just threaten you & want to drug/sedate you so you won't object or argue with their opinion (OK maybe I'm exaggerating the situation a bit but I had a similar past situation when my doctor keep pushing me to increase antipsychotics when they were making me worse, more confused/messed up.) When I tried to explain several times the reasons why I was afraid/didn't want to increase dose, he accused me of being "angry or obstinate" and tried to write this "behavior" off as symptoms of my disorder...

I agree with jt07, pretty sure that you cannot be involuntarily committed unless you are a danger to yourself or others. There aren't enough beds as it is much less for people who don't want a certain med increase....

I hope your next appointment goes better. It sucks that you feel like you can't express how you feel because you are concerned about being "punished" by the psychiatrist and put into IP. There needs to be a conversation and reasonable exchange of ideas/options. At least I think this is how the relationship should work when you're paying $200+ per session for someone to help you!

 

(first bold) I didn't think my pdoc would do this, and I'm not sure if he did or not ... I was fine on 5 mg abilify (felt nothing psychotic), and after he blamed every fuckin thing on that low dose, and I said then put me on the 15 mg if you will stop blaming everything on the low dose, and he immediately put me on the 15 mg.  I feel like he is drugging me, but I can't prove it.  At the 15 mg, I am a little more tired, but that is the only change.  Fortunately I can still think and have no brain fog.  I'm afraid to tell him that though, because then he might raise the dose again, and/or start the shit with the Dept Mental Health (DMH) ... something he agreed with me on that it isn't the right thing now.  But all of a sudden it becomes a threat.  So at this point I'll probably say I am fine.  And if I don't get "angry" by the end of the appt how much do want to bet he'll say something like, "see now you aren't so angry" ... Idk if he will do that, but I wouldn't put it past him after all of this.

(second bold) This is EXACTLY what is happening with me right now.  Everything I say/do has been written in my chart as being part of my disorder. 

(3rd bold)  I know, right? There aren't enough beds ... and I just can't risk being shipped to another hospital (the one I have had problems with), which I am sure he would do.

Oh ... and as he was talking about IP, I said I'm never going to put myself in a situation that would require IP.  And his answer was, "Never say never ..."

(4th/5th bold) Thanks, me too.  Idk if there can be a conversation and a reasonable exchange of ideas ... right now it is what he says, goes.  And no matter what I say (which is why I have to be careful what I do say), he shoots it down.  He proved this because he was blaming everything on the lower dose of Abilify, and when I said "then put me on a higher dose; for this to all go away." (because I specifically asked what would make this all go away)  And he put me on the 15 mg. There was no reasonable exchange of anything.  It was increase the med, or possible IP.  I really had no choice of what to do, when going to 15 mg.  Fortunately insurance covers this.  I'd be screwed if it didn't.

(sorry if I said things twice ... it feels like everything happening with him is just running into each other and it never ends).

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3 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

I was fine on 5 mg abilify (felt nothing psychotic), and after he blamed every fuckin thing on that low dose, and I said then put me on the 15 mg if you will stop blaming everything on the low dose, and he immediately put me on the 15 mg.  I feel like he is drugging me, but I can't prove it. 

So at this point I'll probably say I am fine.  And if I don't get "angry" by the end of the appt how much do want to bet he'll say something like, "see now you aren't so angry" ... Idk if he will do that, but I wouldn't put it past him after all of this.

Everything I say/do has been written in my chart as being part of my disorder. 

There was no reasonable exchange of anything.  It was increase the med, or possible IP.  I really had no choice of what to do, when going to 15 mg.

I'm curious what is the reason he wants to increase your dose? What does he think it will accomplish and what symptoms (if i may ask) are still problematic for you? Have you given him any suggestions (as far as what else you'd like to consider for treatment?)

The only scenario I can see a pdoc acting this way is if you are behaving very out of character, irrational, angry, or having more delusions or psychotic symptoms. I don't see why he would be pushing you when you feel uncomfortable about doing it OR if you feel like your symptoms could be side effects due to the same drug. Sounds frustrating.

The other thing I might add: If you do agree to try the 15mg dose and you get much worse - will he listen to you then and bring you back to 5mg? I don't know it all seems like a big jump in dosage and you probably are worried about ill effects from even trying that..

Edited by cloudmonger

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1 hour ago, cloudmonger said:

I'm curious what is the reason he wants to increase your dose?

At first he said that if I didn't need an anti-psychotic, was I really SZA or not.  That maybe I've been lying to him all these years about the hallucinations/delusions/echobands.  I said he was the one who diagnosed me, and he came back with an answer of maybe he diagnosed me wrong.  Like WTF?  I told him how could I have lied all these years ... he said Idk, but you could have.  So he wanted to increase my anti-psychotic because my thinking was psychotic-like ... when it was not psychotic thinking. As well as because I have been crying and "angry" lately.  Who wouldn't cry when being slammed with everything being blamed on the AP low-dose; not listened to; mentioning IP out of the blue, for no reason except that the dose I was on now was too low, (according to him); ETC.  And the angry part was whatever his definition of "angry" is.

2 hours ago, cloudmonger said:

What does he think it will accomplish and what symptoms (if i may ask) are still problematic for you?

He thinks the higher dose would make me hear sounds less "sensitive" (which to me is not a problem.  I have not become more 'sensitive' lately because of the lower dose).  I don't have any symptoms that are problematic and bothering me.  That is the thing ... nothing is bothering me or is a problem.  I've been fine.  But he still wants to increase the abilify because he thinks I should be on a higher dose because of reasons he thinks exist, which aren't there (except in his mind).

2 hours ago, cloudmonger said:

Have you given him any suggestions (as far as what else you'd like to consider for treatment?)

I haven't had a chance to because it has been what he says goes.  Everything has become a whirlwind of his shit flying around, and I haven't been able to get a word in otherwise.  This Thursday I have specific questions I'm asking about stuff like this.  Hopefully he'll let me speak while he listens.  PLUS .. I don't need more treatment in the first place.  I am doing well, not psychotic, and have been fine (until all of this started ... now he is just stressing me out).  So why would I consider treatment options, you know?

2 hours ago, cloudmonger said:

The only scenario I can see a pdoc acting this way is if you are behaving very out of character, irrational, angry, or having more delusions or psychotic symptoms. I don't see why he would be pushing you when you feel uncomfortable about doing it OR if you feel like your symptoms could be side effects due to the same drug. Sounds frustrating.

Right ... and I have not had a problem with being out of character, angry (depending on whose definition), more delusional or psychotic symptoms.  That is why this whole thing doesn't make sense.  I am not experiencing any of that ... and no matter what I say, he just does not believe me. 

I don't get it either.  He is just on what I would call something similar to a "rampage" except he isn't being physically violent. My symptoms are not from any med.  He thinks that whatever symptoms he sees are because of being on too little abilify.  It is very frustrating, you're right.

2 hours ago, cloudmonger said:

The other thing I might add: If you do agree to try the 15mg dose and you get much worse - will he listen to you then and bring you back to 5mg? I don't know it all seems like a big jump in dosage and you probably are worried about ill effects from even trying that..

No, he will definitely not listen to me about anything and bring me back down to the 5 mg, no matter what I say.  Being on the 5 mg has been a problem this whole time, (since going on it about a month ago?) until I gave in and said he could raise it last week.  Fortunately the only side effect i have from going to 15 mg is that I am a little more tired.  Other than that I feel the same as at the 5 mg.  So if it makes him become sane again, I'll just stay on the 15 mg, knowing that it is doing the same thing as 5 mg.  And has no added effects on me, except for a little more tired.

I wish that I had someone with me who could counter things he is saying and suggest things where he would need to scramble to figure out the answer.

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I have the pdoc appt today, and am nervous but think I can handle it.  Will update when I can.

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UPDATE:

I saw psychiatrist today, and things were less insane.  It wasn't too much of a whirlwind, and actually right now I can't remember anything except one thing ... even though I was asking the questions, I don't remember much of his answers he gave me (It is like a big blank in my head).  I do remember as I was asking him questions, his answers were enough that I didn't have any questions after that. 

What I do remember was that I asked him if he was taking something out on me from the outside (ie other than what we talk about in out appts), because he wasn't himself.  He said that after the election, he was depressed (the election was 2 days before my last week's appt), and when I was in the appt that day last week, he took out his anger/frustration out on me, having a bad day in general.

Today I couldn't hold in the crying but it wasn't much ... it was when I was telling him how much he had hurt me by saying that I could be lying about all my symptoms really happening or not, and that maybe he'd misdiagnosed me.  And he said he could have brought that up in a different way without using (my lying about the symptoms) as an example of ie, if I didn't need the anti-psychotic, then was I really psychotic, and did I really have those symptoms all these years.  And said he was afraid of me becoming paranoid those weeks my parents were away and having a full psychotic breakdown, and I said 'why didn't you trust me that if I started feeling that way I would take the extra abilify and let you know.  I've never been like this with you where I just totally breakdown.  I've never even OD'd or been IP over these years for anything like that. '  And mainly the answer was that he should have believed me.

Anyway, that is all I remember about the appt.  I think it ended on good terms.  I didn't leave there angry.  I just don't remember a lot.  I had another appt at the hospital after that, and when I got there I was trying to think back on the appt and it was all a blur.  I think I was just about at the end of my rope with him, and I blanked out today.

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I just got out of the psych ward following a rather extended stay there. Relatively early on in this stay, I had a rather bad encounter with one of the NPs there, who I've generally had no issues with in the past. She completely blew up at me over what I guess she perceived as me challenging her authority in some way -- I'm still not exactly sure what the hell set her off so badly, but I was a complete mess afterwards because I couldn't figure out what the hell I had done wrong (she refused to clarify things much then basically kicked me out of the room) and was really beating myself up over it. I tried talking to a number of the techs and RNs about it, and they all had no clue why she reacted so strongly (most of them thought she was probably just having a really bad day). I know at least two of them talked to her about it, I never heard any further details, but whatever was discussed afterwards resulted in me never seeing her again for the remainder of this (long) hospital stay - which I was perfectly fine with.

In hindsight, I think she generally really didn't like the idea of a patient discussing anything med-related with her in technical terms, and when this was combined with her misinterpreting the intent behind some questions I was asking and what was likely a bad day for her, things got ugly. Still, the way she reacted was horribly unprofessional and childish, and it really illustrated the medical profession at its worst with such a stunning insecurity complex.

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Me:

I think I need meds for anxiety. I've been having panic attacks and taking zyprexa when I'm panicked to help me deal.

Pdoc:

Ridiculous. That doesn't even work. It's a placebo effect.

 

Huh?

 

 

 

 

 

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