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Just now, confused said:

?

You can be a pdoc/tdoc with a dx or am I missing something (probably)

Supposedly, I'm psychotic at least part of the time, so how am I supposed to trust my own judgment. Lol.

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Both psychologists and psychiatrists are licensed to diagnose and treat mental illness. Psychiatrists go to medical school for four years then do a residency of three or four. Psychologists complete a

Yes but these articles don't prove any of what you said. You said pediatric bipolar doesn't exist (whether it really does or not I am not sure, but I do believe it can be over-diagnosed which doesn't

I would try meds for mood stabilization and therapy/DBT for emotion regulation and coping skills.  No matter the label, it is really about finding a path of less suffering and more meaning and stabili

Yes. You can have a mental health diagnosis and work as a psychiatrist or therapist or psychologist or clinical social worker... or any other kind of health care provider.

Why would you think one can't?

People experience different degrees of functioning regardless of diagnosis. This also includes accountants, nurses, teachers, carpenters, marketing professionals, and IT workers.

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1 minute ago, Wooster said:

Yes. You can have a mental health diagnosis and work as a psychiatrist or therapist or psychologist or clinical social worker... or any other kind of health care provider.

Why would you think one can't?

People experience different degrees of functioning regardless of diagnosis. This also includes accountants, nurses, teachers, carpenters, marketing professionals, and IT workers.

Well, maybe I'll diagnose them as suffering from infection by a spiritual virus. Like I thought about myself. Six months ago.

Then again, there are supposedly practicing doctors who do say those sorts of things...

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10 minutes ago, Lexie said:

Then again, there are supposedly practicing doctors who do say those sorts of things...

Yup. There sure are. And sadly, it doesn't even necessarily mean they're batshit.

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Just now, Wooster said:

Yup. There sure are. And sadly, it doesn't even necessarily mean they're batshit.

Agree to disagree. ;)

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9 hours ago, notloki said:

I would not expect a psychologist to Dx bipolar as it is strictly a medical condition and they can't treat/don't have a treatment for medical conditions. Their points of view are totally different. One is from a medical point of view and the other psychological, so this totally taints their diagnosis. One tends to diagnose what they have treatments for. 

^THIS.

I agree with jt that you can have both diagnoses at the same time (I have, so IME it can happen).

8 hours ago, lifequake said:

I would try meds for mood stabilization and therapy/DBT for emotion regulation and coping skills.  No matter the label, it is really about finding a path of less suffering and more meaning and stability.  Medication management and therapy are not mutually exclusive.

life quake is right.  IMO and IME, treating the symptoms is important. There are no set of meds for any particular diagnosis.  People react to each med differently.

I also agree with getting a 3rd opinion if you want to.  Sometimes it can be good to see a different perspective.  Just keep in mind that you can have both diagnosis at the same time.

 

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6 hours ago, confused said:

?

You can be a pdoc/tdoc with a dx or am I missing something (probably)

Yes, you can be a pdoc/tdoc with a diagnosis.  Look up Elyn Saks.

6 hours ago, confused said:

ah, ty yes, I think I would be more symptomatic with a more stressful environment

Agreed.

 

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2 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

Yes, you can be a pdoc/tdoc with a diagnosis.  Look up Elyn Saks.

Agreed.

 

(I don't like the way this quote feature works)

that wasn't the question. I know you can work in many professions with a dx, like Elyn Saks in law.

i was wondering what Lexie meant by saying she wouldn't be qualified with qualifications.

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17 minutes ago, confused said:

(I don't like the way this quote feature works)

that wasn't the question. I know you can work in many professions with a dx, like Elyn Saks in law.

i was wondering what Lexie meant by saying she wouldn't be qualified with qualifications.

Oh, ok, sorry about that.  Misunderstood.

 

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6 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

Oh, ok, sorry about that.  Misunderstood.

 

 

6 minutes ago, melissaw72 said:

Oh, ok, sorry about that.  Misunderstood.

 

Np, I wrote it weird. I think only I knew what I meant

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3 hours ago, confused said:

 

Np, I wrote it weird. I think only I knew what I meant

i knew what you meant

"not qualified even with qualifications" is a bit of an obtuse way of putting it, but like, if i had a license to practice medicine it'd probably be in everyone's best interests if i lost said license

basically

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13 hours ago, Wooster said:

Yes. You can have a mental health diagnosis and work as a psychiatrist or therapist or psychologist or clinical social worker... or any other kind of health care provider.

Why would you think one can't?

People experience different degrees of functioning regardless of diagnosis. This also includes accountants, nurses, teachers, carpenters, marketing professionals, and IT workers.

I was honestly just wondering about this yesterday. The mental health field interests me, but I did not know if I could work in it (as a medical coder after I finish school) with all of my issues and near hospitalizations.

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14 hours ago, Lexie said:

I'm not finding anything directly investigating the stability of the diagnosis, but I am finding studies and discussions of diagnostic problems and confusion of symptoms.

Mostly, the finding is that childhood diagnoses of bipolar have often been made based on continuous moods and/or a habit of sudden flashes of emotion (especially anger), and this is wildly inappropriate and doesn't actually indicate bipolar at all. Exceptionally angry/acting out children tend to later develop other problems, not bipolar--anger as a symptom of bipolar disorder doesn't tend to develop until adolescence.

Also, emotional problems in childhood in general actually predict that a patient diagnosed with bipolar on the basis of psychosis with possible mania will later be diagnosed with schizophrenia (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3224340/), general anger problems in childhood tend to predict depression (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20853919), and general acting out problems/ADHD/ODD/etc. tend to predict borderline personality (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21671009), but these sorts of problems have often been mistakenly taken as possible childhood bipolar symptomatology.

It would help if we knew OP's age and symptoms at that initial diagnosis, but this really is ultimately a question for the professionals to discuss anyway, so.

Yes but these articles don't prove any of what you said. You said pediatric bipolar doesn't exist (whether it really does or not I am not sure, but I do believe it can be over-diagnosed which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I am most certainly not a mental health professional and I'm guessing you aren't one either. So let's leave this to professionals).

None of your articles say that it doesn't exist and that it is going to be taken out of diagnostic manuals (my words) or anything like that as far as I can tell research wise.

You also said that a diagnosis of pediatric bipolar leads to a diagnosis of MDD or BPD. None of the articles say this. Instead you bring up anger and acting out and ADHD. Anger and acting out and ADHD do not equal pediatric bipolar disorder. Those are mostly separate issues. And a pdoc shouldn't misdiagnose anger or acting out or ADHD as pediatric bipolar. That only leads to over-diagnosing (which can also happen to adults, this problem is not unique to children). 

Anyway, none of us here are qualified to make such statements about the validity of a pediatric bipolar diagnosis. Best to leave this kind of talk to the professionals. 

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Just now, Wonderful.Cheese said:

Yes but these articles don't prove any of what you said. You said pediatric bipolar doesn't exist (whether it really does or not I am not sure, but I do believe it can be over-diagnosed which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I am most certainly not a mental health professional and I'm guessing you aren't one either. So let's leave this to professionals).

None of your articles say that it doesn't exist and that it is going to be taken out of diagnostic manuals (my words) or anything like that as far as I can tell research wise.

You also said that a diagnosis of pediatric bipolar leads to a diagnosis of MDD or BPD. None of the articles say this. Instead you bring up anger and acting out and ADHD. Anger and acting out and ADHD do not equal pediatric bipolar disorder. Those are mostly separate issues. And a pdoc shouldn't misdiagnose anger or acting out or ADHD as pediatric bipolar. That only leads to over-diagnosing (which can also happen to adults, this problem is not unique to children). 

Anyway, none of us here are qualified to make such statements about the validity of a pediatric bipolar diagnosis. Best to leave this kind of talk to the professionals. 

Cheese, you've been hyperaggressive about this from the word go. That shows your judgment here is questionable at best.

It "basically doesn't exist" in that it's pretty much equivalent to childhood-onset schizophrenia, i.e. it's really fucking rare and when it's diagnosed it's likely a misdiagnosis of something else. If you want me to find more professionally-written articles corroborating that the loosening of diagnostic rules and subsequent widespread misdiagnosis is responsible for nearly all modern diagnoses of pediatric bipolar, I can get them for you, though they're not studies.

(And pediatric bipolar disorder isn't even in diagnostic manuals, actually. The DSM-5 actually had some wording put in regarding bipolar disorder more generally, just to clamp down on the "pediatric bipolar" problem.)

Also, stop resorting to "we're not qualified" as a way of shutting me down when you're already openly hostile toward me. You have a habit of this sort of behaviour--unreasoning aggressive argumentation toward other forum users--and it really isn't appropriate. Since I've both seen it and been on the receiving end of it multiple times at this point, seriously, calm down.

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Lexie, chill.

You were asked to back up claims with peer reviewed citations. You said yourself that you're havinnfyrouble finding them.

lets keep things on track for the OP here. She was asking about BP2 vs BPD, and how to handle a care team who isn't talking to each other and is giving her conflicting information.

lets keep that focus and put the discussion about the validity of pediatric BP in the academic section of the board.

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15 hours ago, Wooster said:

 Both get training in therapy. Both are equally qualified to diagnose and treat with therapy. The issue is not which provider is more qualified.

I realize this is totally a tangent, but I have to disagree about pdocs being equally qualified to provide therapy.  Maybe in theory they should be, and I'm sure there are some out there somewhere who are.  But in my experience, and that of several friends of mine with whom I've discussed this in the past, talk therapy is just not really a thing they're able or willing to do.  I actually think psych PhD's get a lot more training about meds than pdocs do about providing therapy.

Also, b/c I'm annoying this way, I have to point out that in a lot of states, one can become a licensed counselor/therapist with only an MA. I kind of think it's impossible to say all mental health care providers are equally qualified to diagnos, as both their educations and clinical experiences can be so different.  

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Sasha, I beg to differ.

Talk therapy IS a thing psychMDs get trained to do. It's required in residency. Whether they choose to do it or not, or whether their position allows them to do it or not varies widely. In the US psychMDs are mosly utilized for med management. But that doesn't mean they aren't qualified to provide therapy also.

I'm not talking about masters level providers with regard to diagnosing and treating. I'm SPECIFICALLY talking about doctoral level psychologists and psychMDs. The ability to treat vs diagnose and treat does vary state to state for master's level providers of mental health, whether they be LMFTs, LPCs, LMHCs, or LCSWs. Privileges to treat vs diagnose and treat are defined by state licensing bodies. Whatever someone's individual preparation, they get the ability to treat vs diagnose and treat from the state licensing body that governs their profession. Whether or not any one individual provider is any good at it based on their individual preparation and experience is outside the scope here.

Now returning this topic to the OP's original... BPD vs BP2 and providers who aren't talking to each other...

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42 minutes ago, Wooster said:

Lexie, chill.

You were asked to back up claims with peer reviewed citations. You said yourself that you're havinnfyrouble finding them.

Because it's not like Wonderful.Cheese has picked fights with me before or anything. Nope, not at all.

But it's wonderful to know you'll take sides with the aggressor. Not like I don't have that in my life enough already.

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2 hours ago, SashaSue said:

I realize this is totally a tangent, but I have to disagree about pdocs being equally qualified to provide therapy.  Maybe in theory they should be, and I'm sure there are some out there somewhere who are.  But in my experience, and that of several friends of mine with whom I've discussed this in the past, talk therapy is just not really a thing they're able or willing to do.  I actually think psych PhD's get a lot more training about meds than pdocs do about providing therapy.

Also, b/c I'm annoying this way, I have to point out that in a lot of states, one can become a licensed counselor/therapist with only an MA. I kind of think it's impossible to say all mental health care providers are equally qualified to diagnos, as both their educations and clinical experiences can be so different.  

SashaSue if you want to make this a new topic I would be interested in discussing further about pdocs and therapy

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