What hope is there for my situation?

[MattMVS7]

I have had horrible depressive nightmares as a result of severe depression throughout my life.  These depressive nightmares were not normal experiences of a normal healthy depressed brain.  

They were experiences of a severely ill and tormented brain since my depression has gotten to the point of being so severe that it has taken my life away.

The depression (hopelessness) and the horrible mental states experienced in those nightmares were nothing normal and was beyond anything imaginable since experiences in nightmares are nothing like experiences in your waking life.  

People who have near death experiences sometimes have distressing or hellish ones.  They experience the horrible indescribable mental states that they experience in their worst nightmares just as bad or even far worse than their worst nightmares.

But it's much worse since they experience it fully conscious since people are fully conscious and aware during their near death experiences.  

They are hyper aware and everything is hyper real.  To be fully aware and conscious of these horrible experiences is far worse than being less aware of them during your nightmares.  

If I ever have a near death experience myself someday, then there is the possibility that I could experience those horrible indescribable depressive mental states that I experienced in those depressive nightmares.  

To experience that fully conscious would be something so indescribably horrible that there is no way for me to be fine with that and not worry about that.

The possibility (no matter how slim) that I could have such a hellish or distressing near death experience has completely taken my life away from me.  

It is a constant non-stop 24/7 obsessive worry that has destroyed my life to where I am not functioning and not doing any of my hobbies, it has troubled me, traumatized me, and has made everything in my life completely devoid of all joy and meaning to make my life worth living.

So my life is now completely gone and is no longer worth living which is why I have to somehow find a way to address this worry so that I can have my life back.  

But I don't think it's possible and I think there is no hope since it is impossible for me to let something this horrible go and to be at peace with and allow myself to be fine with the idea of possibly experiencing this.

I am fine with and am at peace with facing any horrible experience in my waking life since these experiences are normal no matter how bad they are.  

But those experiences in my depressive nightmares was something indescribable.  They were completely altered abnormal mental states that were an indescribable hell.  They were far beyond just some really horrible nightmarish experience.  

It was beyond anything imaginable and there is no way I am fine and at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing that again fully conscious during a near death experience.

There is no way for me to just be here in the moment and not to worry about it.  I don't think any therapeutic techniques can help this.  This is something so far beyond horrible that there is no possible way for me to let this go, be at peace with, and not worry about.

This situation seems like it is far beyond therapy and other known relaxation, meditation, coping, etc. techniques.  So what do we do for this and what hope is there for this?

I will add two additional points that are important that I would like to make.  The first being that as long as I have this obsessive worry, my life will continue to remain empty and miserable like this.

Having such obsessive depressive worries in your life causes your mind to focus on a problem and to shut out everything else in your life so that everything else is completely shut out of all joy and significance (meaning).

As long as I have this worry, then everything in my life will continue to remain dead and empty to me since my mind will always continue to shut those things out.  

I will also remain non-functional in doing my hobbies and such since having this trouble and worry has rendered me this way.  

The last point I would like to make is that some therapists and mental health professionals would say that it is all my way of looking at those mental states in my depressive nightmares.

That if I were to instead look at them differently such as looking at them from a more positive and less horrible perspective, that I wouldn't have to worry about experiencing them again fully conscious during a near death experience.

But the experience is what it is.  It truly was that horrible and no change of thinking can change that experience for what it truly was.  During that time I had those horrible depressive nightmares, I was so desperate to try this.

I was so desperate to try and take away the horrible power of these experiences by telling myself before I went to bed that they are nothing more than unpleasant experiences, that I can look at them from less horrible perspectives to make these experiences less horrible, etc.

But that did nothing.  When I had those depressive nightmares, the experiences were just as horrible.  So this says that experiences alone in of themselves can be the absolute worst and most horrible or they can be the absolute best and glorious.

This says that the experiences themselves alone have this power and that it is not just simply your way of looking at them.  If it was nothing more than your way of looking at them, then a change of thought should change the experience.

In other words, if you looked at a certain experience in the very beginning as the most horrible experience, but then changed your perspective of that experience as being nothing more than an unpleasant feeling, then that is all that it should be now.

So next time you have it again, it won't bother you that much and would now just be nothing more than an unpleasant feeling and would no longer be the horrible experience it was before.  But this isn't the case for me.  The experience is what it is regardless of how I choose to view it in a different manner.

In conclusion, some therapists would tell me:

"Yes, it may very well be that horrible of an experience.  But you'll get through it no matter how horrible it is if it ever does happen to you."

This statement does not make me any less worried.  It does not bring me peace or anything.  You do not realize what this is.  You do not realize just how horrible that experience was.  There is no possible way for me to be at ease with the idea of experiencing it fully conscious during a near death experience.

Edited September 3, 2016 by MattMVS7

[jt07]

There are meds for excessive worry and obsessions, and there are meds for nightmares that happen often. Talk to your doctor about it. I'd say there is plenty of hope for your situation.

21 minutes ago, MattMVS7 said:

They experience the horrible indescribable mental states that they experience in their worst nightmares just as bad or even far worse than their worst nightmares.

Where did you get that ^^. This is the first I'e heard of it.

[MattMVS7]

9 minutes ago, jt07 said:

There are meds for excessive worry and obsessions, and there are meds for nightmares that happen often. Talk to your doctor about it. I'd say there is plenty of hope for your situation.

Where did you get that ^^. This is the first I'e heard of it.

This is far beyond medication.  This is a situation that is so beyond horrible that there is no possible way for me to let it go and not worry about it.  As for your question, hellish ndes are said to be worse than your worst nightmares.  The mental states during those ndes are said to be worse than what you experience in your worst nightmares.  The horrible emotional experiences and other horrible mental states are far more intense in hellish ndes than during nightmares.

Edited September 3, 2016 by MattMVS7

[jt07]

You think it is beyond medication, but I'm telling you that it is not. Once the medication weakens the obsession then therapy can be very effective. You just have to be honest with your psychiatrist and tell him/her about this obsession and how it is affecting your enjoyment of life.

I'm not going to comment on near death experiences because I don't think they are real or anything other than brain activity. But people can disagree with me depending on their religious views and that's ok. Regardless, meds and therapy can help you.

[MattMVS7]

3 minutes ago, jt07 said:

You think it is beyond medication, but I'm telling you that it is not. Once the medication weakens the obsession then therapy can be very effective. You just have to be honest with your psychiatrist and tell him/her about this obsession and how it is affecting your enjoyment of life.

I'm not going to comment on near death experiences because I don't think they are real or anything other than brain activity. But people can disagree with me depending on their religious views and that's ok. Regardless, meds and therapy can help you.

In order for this to work, then the situation itself has to be resolved somehow.  There is no possible way for me to let go of the situation and not worry about it.  If these therapies are aimed towards trying to let go of the situation, then it is not going to work since this is a situation that is so horrible that there is no way for me to let it go.

[jt07]

6 minutes ago, MattMVS7 said:

There is no possible way for me to let go of the situation and not worry about it.

Yes there is. Meds and therapy. Trust me on this. I've had obsessions.

[melissaw72]

2 hours ago, MattMVS7 said:

in those nightmares were nothing normal and was beyond anything imaginable since experiences in nightmares are nothing like experiences in your waking life

IMO the dreams do have some connection between then and experiences in IRL, it may just be indirectly. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077505/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/how-brain-turns-reality-dreams/#.V8pzfYUXop4

^^ This caught my eye (NOT the whole article, but this specific quote):

Quote

Stickgold believes that dreams serve a purpose for the brain, allowing it to make necessary emotional connections among new pieces of information.

“Dreams let you consolidate and integrate your experiences, without conflict with other input from real life,” Stickgold said. “Dreaming is like saying, ‘I’m going home, disconnecting the phone, nobody talk to me. I have to do work.’”

I you google "are dreams related to real life"  There are many other links given on this topic as well.

1 hour ago, jt07 said:

Yes there is. Meds and therapy. Trust me on this. I've had obsessions.

^^I agree with this.

[heilmania]

"The possibility (no matter how slim) that I could have such a hellish or distressing near death experience has completely taken my life away from me."

This sounds more like obsessive thinking and anxiety than depression- your situation may be making you depressed, or you may have depression for all we know. If you don't go to a doctor who can actually give you a diagnosis and treatment options, you'll never get any real help. Find yourself a nice doctor who can help you with these symptoms, and you have plenty of hope for feeling better!

[melissaw72]

9 hours ago, MattMVS7 said:

So what do we do for this and what hope is there for this?

Well, first thing that came to my mind was that there are meds out there, including working with a therapist also.  There is hope, it just may not seem like that for a little while.

 

I agree with what heilmania said (in quote below):

5 hours ago, heilmania said:

If you don't go to a doctor who can actually give you a diagnosis and treatment options, you'll never get any real help. Find yourself a nice doctor who can help you with these symptoms,

 

[MattMVS7]

You don't understand.  There is no hope for this situation since the only way I can get better is if there is a change in mindset.  I would somehow have to go from not being fine and not being at peace with this to being fine and at peace with this situation.  But this is impossible since I am not fine and am not at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing those indescribable horrible depressive mental states fully conscious during a near death experience.

Edited September 3, 2016 by MattMVS7

[melissaw72]

8 minutes ago, MattMVS7 said:

the only way I can get better is if there is a change in mindset.

I'm sorry you don't think your mindset won't change.

 

FWIW ... my mindset has actually changed before.  Completely changed.  It took lots of therapy and a pdoc (now only a pdoc who does his own therapy), and meds to help me along, to eventually change my mindset about things.  So it can happen.  There are ways to do it ... Idk what all the ways to do it are because everyone is different and react different ways to things, in general.

I am sorry that I am not understanding your post.  Thought I was.

 

 

[MattMVS7]

1 minute ago, melissaw72 said:

I'm sorry you don't think your mindset won't change.

 

FWIW ... my mindset has actually changed before.  Completely changed.  It took lots of therapy and a pdoc (now only a pdoc who does his own therapy), and meds to help me along, to eventually change my mindset about things.  So it can happen.  There are ways to do it ... Idk what all the ways to do it are because everyone is different and react different ways to things, in general.

I am sorry that I am not understanding your post.  Thought I was.

 

 

How is it possible then for me to be fine and at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing those horrible depressive mental states fully conscious during a near death experience?  It would be an experience so horrible that there is no way for me to be fine and at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing that.

[melissaw72]

3 minutes ago, MattMVS7 said:

How is it possible then for me to be fine and at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing those horrible depressive mental states fully conscious during a near death experience?  It would be an experience so horrible that there is no way for me to be fine and at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing that.

I think this is where a therapist could really help you.

[MattMVS7]

Just now, melissaw72 said:

I think this is where a therapist could really help you.

One last thing I would like to add is that this is not just some major issue I am having in my life.  This is something very serious that has completely destroyed my life.  It torments me day and night without any peace from it.  It has lead me to becoming suicidal.

[melissaw72]

1 minute ago, MattMVS7 said:

 This is something very serious that has completely destroyed my life.  It torments me day and night without any peace from it.  It has lead me to becoming suicidal.

I'm sorry that whatever happened completely destroyed your life.  It sounds awful!

(in bold above^^)  I still really think a therapist could help you develop some coping skills to make things more tolerable, and to help you deal with the tormenting/not feeling at peace. 

 

If you are suicidal, please go to the ER, especially if you feel like a danger to yourself or others.

[jt07]

57 minutes ago, MattMVS7 said:

You don't understand.  There is no hope for this situation since the only way I can get better is if there is a change in mindset.  I would somehow have to go from not being fine and not being at peace with this to being fine and at peace with this situation.  But this is impossible since I am not fine and am not at peace with the idea of possibly experiencing those indescribable horrible depressive mental states fully conscious during a near death experience.

The whole purpose of meds and therapy is to change your mindset even though you think it cannot be done. That's what the meds and therapy were designed for, I've told you that I had obsessions and that meds and therapy helped immensely. Please don't discount my experience, I wouldn't tell you something if I didn't know it would work. The key on your part is to be and honest with your pdoc about this obsession and how it is affecting your life.

Nobody has said that you have to be at peace with a terrifying prospect. Anybody would be terrified if they had such thoughts. The thing is, though, near death experiences are pretty rare and bad ones are even rarer. It's about perspective and that's what meds and therapy do for you.

[MattMVS7]

1 minute ago, jt07 said:

The whole purpose of meds and therapy is to change your mindset even though you think it cannot be done. That's what the meds and therapy were designed for, I've told you that I had obsessions and that meds and therapy helped immensely. Please don't discount my experience, I wouldn't tell you something if I didn't know it would work. The key on your part is to be and honest with your pdoc about this obsession and how it is affecting your life.

Nobody has said that you have to be at peace with a terrifying prospect. Anybody would be terrified if they had such thoughts. The thing is, though, near death experiences are pretty rare and bad ones are even rarer. It's about perspective and that's what meds and therapy do for you.

What do you mean that I don't need to be at peace?  The only way to get my life back is to not be worried about this and the only way to not be worried about this is to be at peace with this.

[jt07]

I'm saying you can still find that a terrifying situation, but worry about it less because you will have perspective. I'm saying that independent of you now being at peace with it, you will feel better with the right meds and therapy. And I'm saying that with the right meds and therapy you will look back on all this and wonder how you let it take over your life like this.

[amianthus]

11 hours ago, MattMVS7 said:

In order for this to work, then the situation itself has to be resolved somehow.  There is no possible way for me to let go of the situation and not worry about it.  If these therapies are aimed towards trying to let go of the situation, then it is not going to work since this is a situation that is so horrible that there is no way for me to let it go.

I can relate to this statement terribly, and I'm really sorry that you're going through all of this and that it's taken over your life to such an extent.  

When you are really afraid of something happening, and it feels like such a real and immediate threat, to be told to "let it go" feels horrifically absurd, like standing alone in a corner of a room, trapped by an approaching fire, or even in the middle of it already, while someone is telling you "hey, you don't need to do anything about this fire -- nobody does." I get the frustration of it -- of thinking, but this is real, this is terrifying, and I have to do something about it – I have to fight it, to prevent it, but I don’t know HOW, -- and the isolation due to other people not seeming to see the need to fight it or act at all.

I don’t think, though, that therapy would necessarily be just about “letting it go” – it could be a combination of things, from examining whether there’s actually anything that can be done about it, to looking at whether the worry or fear serves any purpose or is helpful in any way, to finding ways to relieve some of the symptoms you are experiencing now (if not this one) and try and make the present moment less hellish.

Meds, even if they do not solve the worry which has taken over your life, can help to relieve symptoms that either it is causing or that are arising alongside it. They can help you think more clearly about what to do to solve the situation.

More so, I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying meds and therapy if you’re not already doing so. It sounds like you’re already going through hell, and afraid of worse.

I wish I had a complete solution for you, but the truth is, I struggle a lot with these kinds of things too; trouble finding peace because of both the awful things that already exist and those that seem sometimes to be inevitable for the future.

I’ve not heard specifically of unpleasant near-death experiences either, and while it may be possible for it to happen, it is relatively unlikely, and most people who have near-death experiences seem to have extremely positive ones. In addition, I think I read (but I might be mistaken) that only a very small minority of people experience NDEs at all.

So it may well never happen at all; even if it does, there will be a period of length of whatever time between now and when it happens, and continuing to live in this state is not going to change that. I guess that’s the whole point of “letting go” – not allowing the awful possibilities of the future to spill into and taint the rest of life that comes before they might -- but I understand again that this is not simple, and means very little when you don’t have an actual practical, effective method for “letting go”, which I unfortunately haven’t found yet either.

One thing I would like to say, though, is that I feel like we can be fully aware during our night-mares too, and have had many myself which were hyper-real, more intense than waking life. Have you ever heard of lucid dreaming? It’s a stretch, but perhaps that could offer you a little hope in this situation.

Please keep talking, and keep trying things, even if it feels like dripping water into the ocean; like it can’t possibly work – it might well not, but you never know whether it could lead you closer to a real answer to the situation.

[MattMVS7]

1 hour ago, amianthus said:

I can relate to this statement terribly, and I'm really sorry that you're going through all of this and that it's taken over your life to such an extent.  

When you are really afraid of something happening, and it feels like such a real and immediate threat, to be told to "let it go" feels horrifically absurd, like standing alone in a corner of a room, trapped by an approaching fire, or even in the middle of it already, while someone is telling you "hey, you don't need to do anything about this fire -- nobody does." I get the frustration of it -- of thinking, but this is real, this is terrifying, and I have to do something about it – I have to fight it, to prevent it, but I don’t know HOW, -- and the isolation due to other people not seeming to see the need to fight it or act at all.

I don’t think, though, that therapy would necessarily be just about “letting it go” – it could be a combination of things, from examining whether there’s actually anything that can be done about it, to looking at whether the worry or fear serves any purpose or is helpful in any way, to finding ways to relieve some of the symptoms you are experiencing now (if not this one) and try and make the present moment less hellish.

Meds, even if they do not solve the worry which has taken over your life, can help to relieve symptoms that either it is causing or that are arising alongside it. They can help you think more clearly about what to do to solve the situation.

More so, I don’t think you have anything to lose by trying meds and therapy if you’re not already doing so. It sounds like you’re already going through hell, and afraid of worse.

I wish I had a complete solution for you, but the truth is, I struggle a lot with these kinds of things too; trouble finding peace because of both the awful things that already exist and those that seem sometimes to be inevitable for the future.

I’ve not heard specifically of unpleasant near-death experiences either, and while it may be possible for it to happen, it is relatively unlikely, and most people who have near-death experiences seem to have extremely positive ones. In addition, I think I read (but I might be mistaken) that only a very small minority of people experience NDEs at all.

So it may well never happen at all; even if it does, there will be a period of length of whatever time between now and when it happens, and continuing to live in this state is not going to change that. I guess that’s the whole point of “letting go” – not allowing the awful possibilities of the future to spill into and taint the rest of life that comes before they might -- but I understand again that this is not simple, and means very little when you don’t have an actual practical, effective method for “letting go”, which I unfortunately haven’t found yet either.

One thing I would like to say, though, is that I feel like we can be fully aware during our night-mares too, and have had many myself which were hyper-real, more intense than waking life. Have you ever heard of lucid dreaming? It’s a stretch, but perhaps that could offer you a little hope in this situation.

Please keep talking, and keep trying things, even if it feels like dripping water into the ocean; like it can’t possibly work – it might well not, but you never know whether it could lead you closer to a real answer to the situation.

I am not functioning in doing any of my hobbies or anything due to this worry.  It has also lead me in becoming suicidal since it is something impossible for me to let go and as long as I cannot be at peace with it and let it go, then my life will continue to remain this way.  As long as my life is like this, then that means there is no hope and that will lead me to commit suicide.