Jump to content
CrazyBoards.org

BP2 and sleep cycles - Roll the dice... I might wake up naughty or nice!


Recommended Posts

All, this is my first post, so thanks for listening.  

I am BP2 and I've been trying to titrate up from 50mg of Lamictal to 200mg.  I'm currently on 100mg and still feeling "groggy" from moving up almost a month ago.  Going up on Lamictal has aggravated the issue I'm about to describe, but it really has nothing to do with the Lamictal in general, as I've experienced this for years.  

Pretty much my life goes like this:  Wake up, figure out almost immediately whether I'm going to feel like crap or not for the rest of the day just based on if I woke up in the middle of a sleep cycle.  I've been tracking my 90 minute sleep cycles for years, and pretty much if I wake up on my own or by an alarm around the 90 minute sleep cycle rotation (or close to it), I feel pretty good all day (still some negative thoughts and anxiety on my best days... but definitely manageable).  However, if I wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle, I literally cannot get over it all day.  I am tensed up, super anxious, have brain fog all day, I'm very irritable with my kids and family, and no matter how much caffeine I consume, or how much exercise I do, etc... I just can't get out of the funk all day.  The ONLY way I've figured out how to get over this is to take a 5 to 30 minute nap.  Almost every time after that, I feel pretty much back to normal... well, maybe not 100% but much better than before.  This sucks, since it pretty much ruins my day when I wake up in the middle of a cycle and have to go to work (so I don't get a quick nap that day).  

Questions for all of you BP2 folks out there (or anyone else experiencing this):  

  • Have you had this happen to you?  If so, have you found a way to get out of the funk?  
  • Is there a name or medical term for this, other than crazy? :) 
  • Will Lamictal eventually help with this?  I swear I think it's making it worse at the moment.

Thanks!
Heygrain

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jean.  I have no idea if this is just a symptom of BP2, or if this is something else altogether.  It's just tough to wake up on the "wrong side of the bed" and know that the rest of the day will suck.  Not fun... just wish I could find a way to "fix it"... I'm willing to do anything during my waking hours, since a nap is almost always out of the question (I'm in cubicles, unfortunately).  Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, heygrain said:

Thanks Jean.  I have no idea if this is just a symptom of BP2, or if this is something else altogether.  It's just tough to wake up on the "wrong side of the bed" and know that the rest of the day will suck.  Not fun... just wish I could find a way to "fix it"... I'm willing to do anything during my waking hours, since a nap is almost always out of the question (I'm in cubicles, unfortunately).  Thanks!

Do you drive to work? If you do, you could sleep in your car. You could get one of those face masks you wear over your eyes.

I've often wished there were little "nap parlors" where you could just rent a cot for half an hour or something.

I've also wished that where I work had a "quiet room" with dim lights and stuffed animals or something for when people are really stressed out.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to say that I have the same problem ... when I go to sleep (broken sleep all night), each time I never know whether I will wake up in a good mood or a bad/angry mood or mixed.  I even take an hour nap sometime in the daytime, and even then I don't know which mood I will wake up in. 

I'm sorry, I have no ideas about waking up.  I'm hoping to learn some things from this thread you started.

Idk if there is a medical term for this or not.

Idk if lamictal will help or not.  FWIW, I am on lamictal and am still having the sleep problems.  But I think it depends on the person ... everyone is different, everyone metabolizes things differently, and I also think it depends on where you are in the titration.  But YMMV.

Hope things start to get better.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

melissaw72, it's good to at least know that I'm not alone! :)  What I know so far is that going up on the Lamictal seems to have worsened this condition, not helped it.  However, I was taking 75% of my dosage at night, and I am now splitting it 50/50 and I'll see if that helps.  I can say this, I can now actually get out of the bed in the morning.  When I was on the highest dosage at night, I could barely drag myself out of bed in the mornings.  It's funny, I have no problem falling asleep, and I can stay asleep all night long, but I just feel like crap 2 or 3 days a week when I wake up in the mornings.

If you have never done any research on sleep cycles, I suggest you read up on them.  They are normally around 90 minutes, and sure enough if I wake up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, it's been either 3 or 4.5 hours after I went to bed.  I then shoot to wake up after 6hrs or 7.5hrs of sleep, which I normally wake up naturally if I give myself that much time.  However, I've got small kids so it's like rolling the dice as to whether I actually do that or not.  Most times when I'm tired I can drink caffeine and recover from it... but on the days that I wake up on the wrong side of the bed, I'm just not right the rest of the day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You definitely not alone with this!

4 hours ago, heygrain said:

However, I was taking 75% of my dosage at night, and I am now splitting it 50/50 and I'll see if that helps.  

I think it might make a difference.  I'd give it a few nights 50/50 then see if you feel any differently.

Idk why you would have 2-3 days/week where you wake and feel like crap.  I would think that it would be every day ok, or every day crap.  *I am glad you feel ok most of the week though :)

Maybe try cutting the caffeine so you can see how your sleep is over a week without it?

For me I don't have a problem falling asleep, but I have a problem staying asleep, so my sleep is fragmented into chunks of sleep at a time.  And the fragment times vary every night. But i get up and need about an hour nap during the day and I feel mostly rested.

Hope you are able to wake up ok and not feel like crap those few days a week!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

melissaw72, thanks for the tip on the caffeine... I agree, I need to cut it out and see what happens, which I'm trying to do right now (down to tea only, no coffee).  

I agree, when I read about BP2 I see that most folks are 3-4 down or up moods a year, not daily by the hour or day.  When I wake up on the wrong side of the day the entire day is wrecked, but on a "normal" day my moods swing wildly all day long.  Essentially I'm very irritable, then very out of it like brain fog, then hyper focused, etc etc.  I mean literally by the hour it changes... which makes me think it could be something in my diet etc making things worse.  I've done an elimination diet before and felt MUCH better (not perfect, but very good), but of course I never put things back into my diet slowly just to see what it could be that's bothering me.  

I hope you can get some sound sleep... the fragmented sleep is the WORST.  I never feel worse than when I wake up multiple times at night and I'm sleeping hard when the alarm goes off the next morning.  And yes, a nap is like heaven... for children and us adults. :) 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, heygrain said:

I hope you can get some sound sleep... the fragmented sleep is the WORST.  I never feel worse than when I wake up multiple times at night and I'm sleeping hard when the alarm goes off the next morning.  And yes, a nap is like heaven... for children and us adults. :) 

Thanks.  As I am writing this the people upstairs are keeping me up because even though they agreed to 8 PM to STFU (I've had problems with them for awhile), they tend to not follow that a lot of the time.  I was asleep until about 9 PM, but then was woken up by them.  I think they are finally in bed so I can go back to sleep soon.

I've had fragmented sleep since about 2006, when I went on clozaril, which really messed my sleeping up (among other things).  Even when I went off of it, the sleep didn't ever return to normal.  To this day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

melissaw72, ugh I'm very sorry to hear that.  I'm sure if you are like the rest of us, you've got a cabinet full of vitamins and supplements, just looking for the right thing that will work for you.  I hope you get a better night's sleep tonight... I am addicted to having white noise/a fan on at all times of the night, so that helps some.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2016 at 3:15 PM, heygrain said:

 I mean literally by the hour it changes... which makes me think it could be something in my diet etc making things worse.  I've done an elimination diet before and felt MUCH better (not perfect, but very good), but of course I never put things back into my diet slowly just to see what it could be that's bothering me.  

I have a food allergy and I definitely get really irritable if I eat the thing I'm allergic to. Probably because it makes me feel ill and then I'm grumpy because I feel ill. Unfortunately, I REALLY love eating it.

Common culprits are wheat, dairy, eggs, shellfish, and soybeans. Another potential culprit could be bananas or avocados - do you eat a lot of those? Why don't you keep a food diary and track it with your mood/sleep chart and see if you can narrow it down to certain things you've eaten? 

Of course there is always the possibility that it's not food-related at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, heygrain said:

melissaw72, ugh I'm very sorry to hear that.  I'm sure if you are like the rest of us, you've got a cabinet full of vitamins and supplements, just looking for the right thing that will work for you.  I hope you get a better night's sleep tonight... I am addicted to having white noise/a fan on at all times of the night, so that helps some.

 

Thank you ...  I got a really good chunk of sleep tonight, and I'm sure I will sleep some more later on. 

I might have to invest in getting a white noise machine ... thing is though, is that when the people upstairs pound on the floor, ie running or jumping or whatever (adult and/or kid) sounds like a pounding noise, and I'm not sure if  a white noise machine would get that part to go away ... I don't want to invest in a white noise machine only to find out that I can still hear the pounding going on upstairs.  Do you thinking a white noise machine would get that to not being able to hear it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, heygrain said:

melissaw72, I agree that the white noise would not block out all noise or bumps from your neighbors but I think it could help.  Sometimes any little amount of relief is better than nothing. 

Thanks for letting me know.  You're right, every bit of relief does help, and is better than nothing.  Unfortunately, it is the pounding that keeps me awake.  When they finally do shut up, it is so quiet here you can hear a pin drop.  So I'll have to think about the white noise machine ... thanks for answering the question!

Actually sometimes the fan on the high level helps a little.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to sleep with an old box fan on all the time... even in the winter I'd have to hide it in the closet to keep from freezing until I got a Sleep Mate like my parents had when I was growing up.  it's essentially just a fan inside of a little housing . 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, heygrain said:

I used to sleep with an old box fan on all the time... even in the winter I'd have to hide it in the closet to keep from freezing until I got a Sleep Mate like my parents had when I was growing up.  it's essentially just a fan inside of a little housing . 

I think I will do that more, now that you mention it.  I can turn the fan away from me so I am not getting blasted by cool air.  Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

To all who have responded:  I seem to find that the heavier carbs/sugar I eat the night before, the worse I feel the next day, or at least the harder it is to get out of bed.  For example I can eat a potato at 7pm and be fine, but if I were to eat one at 9pm and then go to bed, when I woke up in the morning I'd be so tired and out of it that I could barely wake up.  This normally results in me being "out of it" the rest of the day as well.  I've tested this theory the last few days and it seems that if I can stop eating after 7pm, I see to be able to wake earlier and rise easier.

Back in the day I read the book "Potatoes not Prozac" which recommended eating a potato (or any other fast carb) right before bed to increase serotonin.  I wonder if I actually have too much serotonin???

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious about how much fis oil you're taking. Fish oil has shown itself to be beneficial for straight depression, but can cause adverse reactions for those prone to hypomania:

http://psycheducation.org/treatment/mood-stabilizers/omega-3-fatty-acids/

Keep reading, down down down; what you need to see is in the "Risks" section. I've known people who had very bad reactions to fish oil. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm taking 3000mg (three 1000mg capsules) at bed time (not sure if that is a good or a bad thing).  I've stopped taking it before and felt like I was more depressed... but who knows I could have just been down at the time.  I'll give this a read... thanks for the info!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW ... when I took fish oil pill (I think the 1,000 mg), it made me feel like my blood pressure dropped ... and was very nauseous.  My head didn't feel right.  Whatever happened, it wasn't a good thing, so I had to stop taking it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...