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2 Vyvanse Doses in a Day, Experience Over 70 mg/day?


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I recently was switched from Evekeo 10 mg 4x/day to Vyvanse 50 mg every morning + Adderall IR 10 mg as a "booster" by my psychiatrist in St. Louis. When I was on Evekeo, I just couldn't figure out what dose worked for me. I knew that I felt good on 20 mg and could focus, but I still got very little school work done. Since the maximum daily dose of Evekeo is 40 mg, I would either take 2 20 mg doses that would not nearly cover the entire 16 hour day for me, or I would take 10 mg 4 times to cover the whole day, but then would not feel focused at all. As a result of all of this, I got into the habit of taking 60 mg Evekeo a day without my doctor's approval. After I told him about this, he made the switch to Vyvanse q.a.m. and Adderall IR p.r.n., saying that that's how he likes to give ADHD medications (long acting + booster) anyway.

Now that I am home and focusing on other things, my psychiatrist here in New York said we should try 2 doses of Vyvanse per day, which I liked the sound of, to cover the whole day and eliminate addiction tendencies with the short-acting pills. Because last week he added Remeron to my cocktail, he wanted to wait to start this until this week when I see him. Being as impatient as I am, I have doubled up on 50 mg (taken 8 hours apart) and it helps the right amount, but my concern is that my pdoc won't prescribe more than 70 mg total in a day (max. recommended dose).

So, I have two questions:

1. Does anyone here have any experience with or knowledge about taking more than 70 mg of Vyvanse in a day? Did your pdoc prescribe more than 70 mg?

2. If I do have to stay within 70 mg/day, what do you think the best dosing schedule would be to get the most out of it (taking into consideration that 50 mg/dosing is either the right dose or a tad too low)? I'm thinking 50 mg around 6am when I wake up, and then 20 mg around noon? Or maybe 40 mg in the am and 30 mg in the afternoon?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

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These may not be the exact answers to your questions you were looking for, but perhaps may provide insight into your Vyvanse dosing and how much dextroamphetamine equivalent you are taking.

50 mg Vyvanse ≈ 14.74 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 19.65333 mg mixed amphetamine salts
So by doubling up on that, 100 mg Vyvanse ≈ 29.48 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 39.30667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

It's not an unreasonable dose. I've heard of people taking 140 mg Vyvanse and even up to 210 mg Vyvanse per day. How they manage to get their insurance to pay for that is beyond me... lol :P

70 mg Vyvanse ≈ 20.636 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 27.514667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

So it wouldn't be unreasonable to take more than 70 mg Vyvanse in a day, if your pdoc will allow it and is aware of these conversions.

Another way I've seen it described is:
Vyvanse 30 mg ≈ Adderall XR 10 mg
Vyvanse 50 mg ≈ Adderall XR 20 mg
Vyvanse 70 mg ≈ Adderall XR 30 mg

The max dose of both dextroamphetamine and mixed amphetamine salts is 60 mg, so really with the Vyvanse, even though the official max dose is only 70 mg, theoretically you could still go up to 140 mg and be okay.

As far as a dosing schedule, the only thing I have to say about that is to take into consideration that it takes about 2 hours for Vyvanse to kick in (slowest of all the stimulants).

Personally, I prefer the Dexedrine extended release Spansules since they're much cheaper and are essentially the same thing, dextroamphetamine extended release, except they kick in much quicker; however, they don't last nearly as long as Vyvanse (6-8 hours vs. the purported 14 hours of Vyvanse). That and they do have a little higher abuse potential since they don't require digestion to activate it like Vyvanse. But being extended release probably removes a little bit of the abuse liability.

Adderall XR is also nice because (depending on your insurance quantity limits, my insurance just screwed me over and changed the quantity limit down to just 1 a day so I have to have two Adderall XR prescriptions to get 40 mg...) it can be taken twice a day by most insurnace companies, and lasts generally about 12 hours.

I know this didn't exactly answer any of your questions, but I hope it did give you some info about dosing strengths and comparisons and whatnot.

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4 hours ago, mikrw33 said:

These may not be the exact answers to your questions you were looking for, but perhaps may provide insight into your Vyvanse dosing and how much dextroamphetamine equivalent you are taking.

50 mg Vyvanse ≈ 14.74 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 19.65333 mg mixed amphetamine salts
So by doubling up on that, 100 mg Vyvanse ≈ 29.48 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 39.30667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

It's not an unreasonable dose. I've heard of people taking 140 mg Vyvanse and even up to 210 mg Vyvanse per day. How they manage to get their insurance to pay for that is beyond me... lol :P

70 mg Vyvanse ≈ 20.636 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 27.514667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

So it wouldn't be unreasonable to take more than 70 mg Vyvanse in a day, if your pdoc will allow it and is aware of these conversions.

Another way I've seen it described is:
Vyvanse 30 mg ≈ Adderall XR 10 mg
Vyvanse 50 mg ≈ Adderall XR 20 mg
Vyvanse 70 mg ≈ Adderall XR 30 mg

The max dose of both dextroamphetamine and mixed amphetamine salts is 60 mg, so really with the Vyvanse, even though the official max dose is only 70 mg, theoretically you could still go up to 140 mg and be okay.

As far as a dosing schedule, the only thing I have to say about that is to take into consideration that it takes about 2 hours for Vyvanse to kick in (slowest of all the stimulants).

Personally, I prefer the Dexedrine extended release Spansules since they're much cheaper and are essentially the same thing, dextroamphetamine extended release, except they kick in much quicker; however, they don't last nearly as long as Vyvanse (6-8 hours vs. the purported 14 hours of Vyvanse). That and they do have a little higher abuse potential since they don't require digestion to activate it like Vyvanse. But being extended release probably removes a little bit of the abuse liability.

Adderall XR is also nice because (depending on your insurance quantity limits, my insurance just screwed me over and changed the quantity limit down to just 1 a day so I have to have two Adderall XR prescriptions to get 40 mg...) it can be taken twice a day by most insurnace companies, and lasts generally about 12 hours.

I know this didn't exactly answer any of your questions, but I hope it did give you some info about dosing strengths and comparisons and whatnot.

Thank you! Always nice to learn more about meds. To update, my doctor prescribed me 20 mg Vyvanse to take 7 hours after I take 50 mg in the morning. Unfortunately, that isn't making a big difference.

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2 hours ago, AROLODOLO said:

Thank you! Always nice to learn more about meds. To update, my doctor prescribed me 20 mg Vyvanse to take 7 hours after I take 50 mg in the morning. Unfortunately, that isn't making a big difference.

 

Sorry to hear that's not making much of a difference... Yeah many pdocs aren't willing to go past 70 mg Vyvanse it seems. I don't think they actually know the conversion ratio between Vyvanse and the other amphetamines, so I don't think they really know how much dextroamphetamine equivalent they're prescribing with Vyvanse...

If you were taking 40 mg Evekeo before, that's 20 mg dextro + 20 mg levo, which is kinda hard to make a conversion to dextro because of the levo part which has slightly different pharmacology than the dextro enantiomer. But it would make sense to me that you would need more than 20.636 mg dextroamphetamine if you were coming from Evekeo 40 mg/da and even Evekeo 60 mg/day (which can be prescribed for ADHD, actually, it just says in Epocrates that "doses > 40 mg/day rarely more effective).

If it were me in your shoes and I weren't having any good luck with Vyvanse, I would look into switching to either Dexedrine Spansules (extended release Dexedrine) or Adderall XR. AFAIK, generic Dexedrine Spansules have no quantity limit and can be prescribed beyond the 60 mg/day max dose, even. The Adderall XR, however, does have a quantity limit with most insurance companies—with mine it used to be 2/day limit, but recently for some dumb ass reason they changed it to 1/day only, so in order to get anything above 30 mg/day, I have to have two prescriptions for Adderall XR, and getting 60 mg/day would require multiple prescriptions, so it'd just be easier to take regular Adderall IR which I don't think has a quantity limit (but I understand you are trying to avoid the instant release because of abuse potential).

For me, Dexedrine 30 mg is a good dose, though I wish my pdoc would've prescribed higher (she refused to go above 30 mg for some reason, yet she prescribed me Adderall XR 90 mg once, which is equivalent to 67.5 mg Dexedrine...). Adderall XR 40-60 mg is a good dose for me, though I felt my best and could focus the best the one time I was on 90 mg, and my idiopathic hypersomnia was well under control during that one glorious month... lol.

I personally don't like Vyvanse because (1) of its cost (but they have a coupon for it that reduces the copay), (2) Dexedrine Spansules can accomplish pretty much the same thing for cheaper (unless you use the Vyvanse coupon, which the copay would be about the same), and (3) Vyvanse takes too long to kick in for me and doesn't last long enough for some reason. Also, I couldn't focus nearly as well on Vyvanse as I could on Dexedrine Spansules or Adderal XR/Adderall IR. Additionally, for some reason, Vyvanse makes my heart race into the 100's BPM, while Dexedrine Spansules allow my resting heart rate to remain in the 60's easily. That's just me though.

Good luck with the Vyvanse, I hope it eventually works for you!

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1 hour ago, mikrw33 said:

Sorry to hear that's not making much of a difference... Yeah many pdocs aren't willing to go past 70 mg Vyvanse it seems. I don't think they actually know the conversion ratio between Vyvanse and the other amphetamines, so I don't think they really know how much dextroamphetamine equivalent they're prescribing with Vyvanse...

If you were taking 40 mg Evekeo before, that's 20 mg dextro + 20 mg levo, which is kinda hard to make a conversion to dextro because of the levo part which has slightly different pharmacology than the dextro enantiomer. But it would make sense to me that you would need more than 20.636 mg dextroamphetamine if you were coming from Evekeo 40 mg/da and even Evekeo 60 mg/day (which can be prescribed for ADHD, actually, it just says in Epocrates that "doses > 40 mg/day rarely more effective).

If it were me in your shoes and I weren't having any good luck with Vyvanse, I would look into switching to either Dexedrine Spansules (extended release Dexedrine) or Adderall XR. AFAIK, generic Dexedrine Spansules have no quantity limit and can be prescribed beyond the 60 mg/day max dose, even. The Adderall XR, however, does have a quantity limit with most insurance companies—with mine it used to be 2/day limit, but recently for some dumb ass reason they changed it to 1/day only, so in order to get anything above 30 mg/day, I have to have two prescriptions for Adderall XR, and getting 60 mg/day would require multiple prescriptions, so it'd just be easier to take regular Adderall IR which I don't think has a quantity limit (but I understand you are trying to avoid the instant release because of abuse potential).

For me, Dexedrine 30 mg is a good dose, though I wish my pdoc would've prescribed higher (she refused to go above 30 mg for some reason, yet she prescribed me Adderall XR 90 mg once, which is equivalent to 67.5 mg Dexedrine...). Adderall XR 40-60 mg is a good dose for me, though I felt my best and could focus the best the one time I was on 90 mg, and my idiopathic hypersomnia was well under control during that one glorious month... lol.

I personally don't like Vyvanse because (1) of its cost (but they have a coupon for it that reduces the copay), (2) Dexedrine Spansules can accomplish pretty much the same thing for cheaper (unless you use the Vyvanse coupon, which the copay would be about the same), and (3) Vyvanse takes too long to kick in for me and doesn't last long enough for some reason. Also, I couldn't focus nearly as well on Vyvanse as I could on Dexedrine Spansules or Adderal XR/Adderall IR. Additionally, for some reason, Vyvanse makes my heart race into the 100's BPM, while Dexedrine Spansules allow my resting heart rate to remain in the 60's easily. That's just me though.

Good luck with the Vyvanse, I hope it eventually works for you!

I personally really like how I feel on Vyvanse and it helps my focus better than anything with levo in it. That being said, I hate that it wears off midday for me. I wish I could be on it all the time I am awake, but that is probably unrealistic given my tolerance to stimulants.

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On 12/15/2016 at 3:32 AM, mikrw33 said:

These may not be the exact answers to your questions you were looking for, but perhaps may provide insight into your Vyvanse dosing and how much dextroamphetamine equivalent you are taking.

50 mg Vyvanse ≈ 14.74 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 19.65333 mg mixed amphetamine salts
So by doubling up on that, 100 mg Vyvanse ≈ 29.48 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 39.30667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

It's not an unreasonable dose. I've heard of people taking 140 mg Vyvanse and even up to 210 mg Vyvanse per day. How they manage to get their insurance to pay for that is beyond me... lol :P

70 mg Vyvanse ≈ 20.636 mg dextroamphetamine ≈ 27.514667 mg mixed amphetamine salts

So it wouldn't be unreasonable to take more than 70 mg Vyvanse in a day, if your pdoc will allow it and is aware of these conversions.

Another way I've seen it described is:
Vyvanse 30 mg ≈ Adderall XR 10 mg
Vyvanse 50 mg ≈ Adderall XR 20 mg
Vyvanse 70 mg ≈ Adderall XR 30 mg

The max dose of both dextroamphetamine and mixed amphetamine salts is 60 mg, so really with the Vyvanse, even though the official max dose is only 70 mg, theoretically you could still go up to 140 mg and be okay.

As far as a dosing schedule, the only thing I have to say about that is to take into consideration that it takes about 2 hours for Vyvanse to kick in (slowest of all the stimulants).

Personally, I prefer the Dexedrine extended release Spansules since they're much cheaper and are essentially the same thing, dextroamphetamine extended release, except they kick in much quicker; however, they don't last nearly as long as Vyvanse (6-8 hours vs. the purported 14 hours of Vyvanse). That and they do have a little higher abuse potential since they don't require digestion to activate it like Vyvanse. But being extended release probably removes a little bit of the abuse liability.

Adderall XR is also nice because (depending on your insurance quantity limits, my insurance just screwed me over and changed the quantity limit down to just 1 a day so I have to have two Adderall XR prescriptions to get 40 mg...) it can be taken twice a day by most insurnace companies, and lasts generally about 12 hours.

I know this didn't exactly answer any of your questions, but I hope it did give you some info about dosing strengths and comparisons and whatnot.

Vyvanse is approximately 50% dextroamphetamine by weight. 50mg of Vyvanse is 25mg of dextroamphetamine, NOT ~15mg.

140mg of Vyvanse is 70mg dextroamphetamine. 210mg is 105mg dextroamphetamine.

70mg of Vyvanse is 35mg dextroamphetamine. Taking more than 35mg of dextroamphetamine is not entirely unreasonable, but the max dose of dextroamphetamine is about 60mg according to the PI sheet, which is equivalent to 120mg of Vyvanse.

You cannot directly convert between dextroamphetamine and mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall), as mixed amphetamine salts contains approximately 75% dextroamphetamine by weight, and the clinical effect of that 25% levoamphetamine is significantly different from that of the dextroamphetamine. If a rough conversion was attempted, one would equate dextroamphetamine and mixed amphetamine salts as the same strength by weight (i.e. 10mg dextroamphetamine ~= 10mg Adderall).

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8 hours ago, notloki said:

The conversion rate between Vyvanse and dextroamphetamine is something less than 50%. I've gone back and forth between the 2 and it clearly is not 50%

It's approximately 50% according to all the research I've seen on it, but I'll revisit that in detail below.

1 hour ago, mikrw33 said:

Yes, same here.

The conversion rate is 29.48%.

http://www.uacap.org/uploads/3/2/5/0/3250432/stimulant_equivalency.pdf

That reference is unreliable and I believe that it is misrepresenting the conversion rate with the conversion quantity. At any rate, I cannot find any reputable literature that is in agreement with that reference's claims, so they are extremely dubious. There are of course a large number of hits from people uncritically parroting the 29.48% conversion ratio, but said hits are all from sources ranging from mildly dubious to obscenely sketchy.

One of the few reliable independent attempts to calculate accurate conversions between various forms of amphetamine-based meds can be found on Wikipedia (it's in the Vyvanse article and is transcluded in numerous other articles). According to that, the conversion ratio is 40.43% d-amp, a figure that fits with other sources that I have seen on the subject.

The wiki table suggests a 47.4% (estimated) ratio between LDX and MAS, which is supported by the 43% estimated ratio for therapeutic equivalence between LDX and MAS-XR (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2873712/). That same source suggests that there is an "approximate" 40% ratio of amphetamine base content between d-amp and LDX (IV study). Another subsequent multi-part study reinforces the 40% ratio.

Overall, the evidence strongly suggests that the conversion ratio is at absolute minimum 40%, and would be better expressed as a range of 40-50% depending on a number of factors, justifying the common "approximately 50%" simplification (which is markedly mathematically simpler and contains a larger safety factor). No legitimate evidence supports the notion that the conversion ratio is less than 40%.

Edited by JustNuts
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13 hours ago, JustNuts said:

It's approximately 50% according to all the research I've seen on it, but I'll revisit that in detail below.

That reference is unreliable and I believe that it is misrepresenting the conversion rate with the conversion quantity. At any rate, I cannot find any reputable literature that is in agreement with that reference's claims, so they are extremely dubious. There are of course a large number of hits from people uncritically parroting the 29.48% conversion ratio, but said hits are all from sources ranging from mildly dubious to obscenely sketchy.

One of the few reliable independent attempts to calculate accurate conversions between various forms of amphetamine-based meds can be found on Wikipedia (it's in the Vyvanse article and is transcluded in numerous other articles). According to that, the conversion ratio is 40.43% d-amp, a figure that fits with other sources that I have seen on the subject.

The wiki table suggests a 47.4% (estimated) ratio between LDX and MAS, which is supported by the 43% estimated ratio for therapeutic equivalence between LDX and MAS-XR (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2873712/). That same source suggests that there is an "approximate" 40% ratio of amphetamine base content between d-amp and LDX (IV study). Another subsequent multi-part study reinforces the 40% ratio.

Overall, the evidence strongly suggests that the conversion ratio is at absolute minimum 40%, and would be better expressed as a range of 40-50% depending on a number of factors, justifying the common "approximately 50%" simplification (which is markedly mathematically simpler and contains a larger safety factor). No legitimate evidence supports the notion that the conversion ratio is less than 40%.

 

But if that were the case, using the 40.43% conversion ratio for LDX to d-amp, then 70 mg Vyvanse would be approximately 28.301 mg (call it 30 mg), and using the 47.4% conversion ratio for LDX to MAS, then 70 mg Vyvanse would be approximately 59.7068 mg (call it 60 mg). I've taken 70 mg Vyvanse and it feels nothing like 60 mg Adderall XR. I would be willing to say that it did feel close to 30 mg Dexedrine, but not quite that much, probably closer to 20 mg, really. That's just my subjective experience.

The Wiki table I'm seeing says 29.68% dextroamphetamine base. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

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11 hours ago, mikrw33 said:

But if that were the case, using the 40.43% conversion ratio for LDX to d-amp, then 70 mg Vyvanse would be approximately 28.301 mg (call it 30 mg), and using the 47.4% conversion ratio for LDX to MAS, then 70 mg Vyvanse would be approximately 59.7068 mg (call it 60 mg). I've taken 70 mg Vyvanse and it feels nothing like 60 mg Adderall XR. I would be willing to say that it did feel close to 30 mg Dexedrine, but not quite that much, probably closer to 20 mg, really. That's just my subjective experience.

The Wiki table I'm seeing says 29.68% dextroamphetamine base. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

Vyvanse and Adderall XR don't feel the same because Adderall has an entirely different release mechanism, an entirely different pharmacokinetic profile, and is 25% levoamphetamine instead of 100% dextroamphetamine. Btw you also completely fucked up the conversion between LDX and MAS.

Vyvanse and Dexedrine don't feel quite the same because of the same issues with entirely different release mechanisms and entirely different pharmacokinetic profiles.

Base != final drug compound (which also != actual pill contents, although that's not really relevant). Look at that table's base fraction on each amphetamine drug being compared, then look at the last column for the actual calculation of adjusted equivalent doses. There are two ways to calculate equivalency ratios/doses between LDX and d-amp - either compare the AUC of d-amp in each, or determine the amount of d-amp base present in each and compare that.

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21 minutes ago, mikrw33 said:

Maybe I shouldn't post on this website anymore. I clearly don't know my shit, and am clearly a fuck up.

I'm honestly not sure how you actually want this (quoted post) to be interpreted, but if I offended you somehow I want to apologize - that was not my intention at all. I'm going to revert to WP:AGF for this and assume you're being literal. So... You actually know your shit pretty well, better than most people on here. Yes, you screw up on a few things from time to time - who doesn't? That's how you learn.

We're all fuckups in some way, that's why we're posting on this site. This is a community of fuckups helping other fuckups.

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2 hours ago, mikrw33 said:

Maybe I shouldn't post on this website anymore. I clearly don't know my shit, and am clearly a fuck up.

I think you are highly intelligent and I really enjoy reading your posts. Its nice to see someone as fascinated with how meds work as me. You are NOT a fuck up! I do hope you post again. <3 

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19 hours ago, JustNuts said:

I'm honestly not sure how you actually want this (quoted post) to be interpreted, but if I offended you somehow I want to apologize - that was not my intention at all. I'm going to revert to WP:AGF for this and assume you're being literal. So... You actually know your shit pretty well, better than most people on here. Yes, you screw up on a few things from time to time - who doesn't? That's how you learn.

We're all fuckups in some way, that's why we're posting on this site. This is a community of fuckups helping other fuckups.

 

I apologize for that post, it was rather immature of me—not to derail the OP's thread, but I've been feeling pretty neurotic lately night, and when in these moods I may be pretty sensitive to criticism. I realize I did, indeed, fuck up the conversion between LDX and MAS, but you make a good point regarding "who doesn't screw up on things?" I appreciate your apology, not many people on the Internet are courteous enough to do that. :) I also appreciate your complimenting me on my knowledge—I'm humbled.

17 hours ago, Butterflykisses said:

I think you are highly intelligent and I really enjoy reading your posts. Its nice to see someone as fascinated with how meds work as me. You are NOT a fuck up! I do hope you post again. <3 

 

Thank you very much for your compliments too! I all too often feel like a fuck up, but sometimes it takes hearing it from other people to reassure me (shouldn't have to depend on that, I know.)

Anyway, enough about all that. I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have.

So would the correct LDX 70 mg to MAS conversion be 33.18 mg? I don't know how I arrived at my other number...

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1 hour ago, mikrw33 said:

I apologize for that post, it was rather immature of me—not to derail the OP's thread, but I've been feeling pretty neurotic lately night, and when in these moods I may be pretty sensitive to criticism. I realize I did, indeed, fuck up the conversion between LDX and MAS, but you make a good point regarding "who doesn't screw up on things?" I appreciate your apology, not many people on the Internet are courteous enough to do that. :) I also appreciate your complimenting me on my knowledge—I'm humbled.

Thank you very much for your compliments too! I all too often feel like a fuck up, but sometimes it takes hearing it from other people to reassure me (shouldn't have to depend on that, I know.)

Anyway, enough about all that. I don't want to derail the thread more than I already have.

So would the correct LDX 70 mg to MAS conversion be 33.18 mg? I don't know how I arrived at my other number...

np. I'm sure we've all had those moods, I certainly have. Yep, it's 33.18mg, although as I said there are quite a few caveats when converting between LDX and MAS.

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  • 3 years later...

I’m 17 and I’m prescribed to 70 mg of vyvanse every morning. But instead of taking one I took 3 of them (210 mg) and a couple hours later I didn’t feel right and eventually I threw up everything in my stomach.  Can anyone explain to me why I didn’t feel right? 

Edited by Sissybear123
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On 9/17/2020 at 2:09 AM, Sissybear123 said:

I’m 17 and I’m prescribed to 70 mg of vyvanse every morning. But instead of taking one I took 3 of them (210 mg) and a couple hours later I didn’t feel right and eventually I threw up everything in my stomach.  Can anyone explain to me why I didn’t feel right? 

You took an overdose. If one is good 3 will be better thinking does not work here,

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