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personality disorders suck


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My emotional responses are fucked up.  How the fuck do I unfuck them up?  And don't tell me therapy.  First off, I don't have the money.  Second, I don't like therapy.  Third, someone else telling me what I should feel or how I should respond to my feelings doesn't do me a whole hell of a lot of good.  In the end, I am the one that has to deal with it.  I feel it and I have to respond to it.  If I have never known what healthy emotional responses are, how the hell do I try to have them? 

I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this.  Not that it really matters.  It's all rather pointless anyway.  I should just move to Alaska or somewhere and live in a shack in the middle of nowhere.  That way I would only have to deal with the occasional bear or salmon.  They are pretty easy to get along with.

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Hey-

My emotional responses are fucked up, too.  And I'm not in therapy right now, either.

It's a tough row to hoe.

Move the shack to somewhere tropical and I'll come along.  Get two computers and we won't even have to talk! 

I'm sorry I don't have a better response tonight.  But I understand your frustrations- I wish someone could just explain to me step-by-step what to do in order to not flip out.  I think it's something so ingrained in most people that they have trouble explaining it- or I don't ask the question right.  I don't know.

Maybe I'll have something more coherent to say in the morning.  Sorry. 

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It doesn't matter much if you have tons of therapy unless you can train youself to step back and look at how react to things and consider acting differently. That is the goal of most therapy I know, most medication that I know, the goal of most self help books you know. It's not about getting rid of emotions that cause trouble, you'll still feel angry, lonely, scared, passionate, antisocial. It's your reactions that you have power over to change. That's all therapy targets.

I have pretty much taught myself CBT from books and found it practical to put in place in my life to help me stop cutting etc, so maybe you would benefit from a book like 'Mind over Mood' or similar. You could move to Alaska but that would be running away and selling your life short.

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Heya,

Personality disorders really do suck.

I can so relate to the feeling of wanting to run away to somewhere far and isolated!

My psychiatrist and I have been, interestingly, focusing more on the personality stuff than the BP and medications -- it's like he's letting me and my FP manage that until we need him, and working on a careful diagnosis and framework for the non-BP person inside of me.

That's what I think anyway.

I'm looking more and more schizoid, which is interesting, and explains a lot.

I feel that if everyone had just stopped telling me I needed to have friends, I wouldn't have cared.

I'm just so comfortable being alone.

And I'm not sure this needs to change, and I'm working on stabilizing the freaking bipolar anyway which is enough to deal with at the moment, but it's going to become a focus in our marriage counselling I'm sure.

So yeah, unless we want things to change, it's not going to happen.

I stopped drinking.

I take medication, see a psychiatrist, and do a lot of CBT now that meds have made it so I can concentrate.

But to change me?  Me, the one who was always okay by myself?

Not sure about that.

Not running away either, for now.

--ncc--

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Move the shack to somewhere tropical and I'll come along.  Get two computers and we won't even have to talk! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's kind of the problem.  Only way I can have a healthy relationship is to not have any interaction with the other person.

Maybe I'll have something more coherent to say in the morning.  Sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's okay, I don't have anything coherent to say this morning.

It's your reactions that you have power over to change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't think I do.  I fight it and I can restrain myself for awhile, but eventually it just becomes too much and I have to let it out.  Maybe this is part of the BP2 thing.  It seems that no matter how hard I try not to let them, the emotions rule. 

I'm working on stabilizing the freaking bipolar anyway which is enough to deal with at the moment

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is a big part of the problem for me.  I have some periods when I feel really stable moodwise and I don't have near the trouble with the personality disorder stuff.  Then there are periods when I feel like a leaf being tossed about in the wind. 

So yeah, unless we want things to change, it's not going to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I want things to change I just don't see how it is going to happen. 

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I think that my earlier post was a bit quick tempered, sorry something unrelated pissed me offf today and I was nasty. I agree that there are some things about ourselves that can be labelled as personality disorder that we may want to keep because they enhance our lives. I want to keep my eccentric tendencies and my intense emotions because I enjoy that side of me 99% of the time. However it's how these are expressed that create problems for me and others, and that is what I am willing to change.

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So yeah, unless we want things to change, it's not going to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I want things to change I just don't see how it is going to happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think one of the keys here is that you need to be convinced you can change before you can. Mind over matter goes both ways... the mind can do things tha matter cannot, but it can also hold back the matter and make it incapable of going further. Right now, you're letting your emotions get the better of you and take away all your hope... tell yourself that it will happen. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's true that right now, there may be no end in sight, but there's always progress in sight, and you can't reach the end of you don't progress. It's like losing 50 lbs... You have to lose 10 first, and then another 10, and so on.

If, where you are right now, you're truly comfortable having no friends, then work on what you've got for now - any relationship you're in, or with your family, or at work. Slowly add people as you feel comfortable. It may be best to first work with someone who knows your situation so will understand if you slip up.

I know you said no therapy, but it doesn't really have to be that expensive. I'm going to the psychological equivelent of an UrgentCare facility... It's probably not top quality, but for someone who's scraping by, it works. Most cities have at least one; your doctor or the local information number can probably tell you where to find one. If your main concern is learning how to act around others, try group therapy. Also try going out somewhere where you have to run into others... a sports game, for example, would mean that unusual bouts of excitement and anger are commonplace there, and you'd probably feel more at home.

Unfortunately, there's no quick fix and no one can tell you exactly how to behave. It's something you have to learn to do on your own, one way or another.

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I think that my earlier post was a bit quick tempered, sorry something unrelated pissed me offf today and I was nasty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry, compared to my internal dialogue, that was nothing.

I agree that there are some things about ourselves that can be labelled as personality disorder that we may want to keep because they enhance our lives. I want to keep my eccentric tendencies and my intense emotions because I enjoy that side of me 99% of the time. However it's how these are expressed that create problems for me and others, and that is what I am willing to change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly.  I can handle it most of the time, but sometimes the intensity of emotion is just too much.  I end up saying or doing something stupid and driving people off.  Afterwards I feel stupid and wish I hadn't done it, but I can't take it back.  Most people won't bother to try to understand my actions, they just write me off and move on.  I don't want to be a callous asshole like so much of society, but that seems to be what most people expect. 

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That's why I think something like CBT might help with managing those meotional moments  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I went to a therapist several months ago when I still had a job and insurance and we did some CBT things, but it was mostly for anxiety.  I think the main problem now is that my current meds (Lamictal) aren't doing the job of managing the BP very well.  When I have felt stable moodwise, it has been a lot easier to manage the emotions and my reactions to them.  I have an appt in a few weeks and I think I am going to investigate doing some med adjusting. 

I do appreciate the responses.  I know I have plenty of stuff I still need to work on, but just having someplace to vent helps.  Thanks.

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Still fucked.  I have all these emotions and feelings and it seems like no one gives a shit.  I express and people retreat from the intensity or the honesty or whatever.  I don't want to be a cold, numb robot.  I want to be passionate and mercurial.  I want to throw caution to the wind and follow my feelings.  I want to tell people what I am feeling.  Except no one else wants that.  I am all bottled up inside myself.  Every time I reach out, I get it thrown back in my face and yet it is almost a compulsion.  I don't know if it is a subconscious thing or not.  Maybe I am ruining relationships on purpose because I don't think I deserve to be loved.  I don't know.  I just wish I could not be like me.

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I have little to add except that I fervently believe there is no cure for personality disorders beyond the experience of life. You just have to keep living, trying your best, and then behaving like a normal person starts to come naturally. Sure, you fuck up along the way, but with insight and conscious self-improvement, it just happens.

This sounds very supercilious, but I was in a much worse place when I was actively trying to fix my borderline and getting all upset and guilty about it. Now I just try and live and minimise its impact on my life. Don't forget that you are already far far far along the road to managing yourself than most other PD people because from your posts, it's obvious that you have a lot of self-awareness and recognise that what you're feeling isn't working for you and is damaging your life and function.

Hurrah for realising you have a problem and not being too scared to acknowledge and analyse what are pretty confronting feelings.

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I think the main problem now is that my current meds (Lamictal) aren't doing the job of managing the BP very well.  When I have felt stable moodwise, it has been a lot easier to manage the emotions and my reactions to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've changed my mind on this.  I've decided that my problem is I don't know how to interact correctly.  I don't know how to read the other person in the relationship.  It's like I never learned how to think outside of myself.  I see what I want and I have no idea what the other person wants.  I can't adjust my actions based on the other persons expectations because I don't know what they are.  I think I have been living in a lala-land of my own creation my entire life.  I don't have a fucking clue what is going on outside of myself.  I am stumbing about the real world blinded by a fog of non-understanding.

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I have trouble in relationships, b/c other people's needs don't resonate with me.

But I have no idea what my *own* needs are either. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. 

i'm not articulating it well at all, yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, totally. 

i have little problem with objects. as in, the relationship of my car to other cars. but take the cars away and the people are incredibly erratic, dangerous, unpredictable beings; when someone approaches in a certain way, i may notice them and interact, sometimes with a false self, sometimes in my awkward more authentic self, but never really gaining insight as to THEIR intentions..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.  Objects have a purpose and possible actions and reasons for those actions that are known beforehand.  People are not so easy to figure out.  I usually just nod and grunt and do my best to be invisible.  That works for the superficial relationships, but the more meaningful ones are still a puzzle.

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I misread or 'mindread' peoples' intentions and frequently have to be humble and ask them what it is they want or need, because I am clueless. Often times I look at relationships that I have had in the past and I have been ignorant of what was really going on a lot of the time, it's like my friendships and romantic relationships have thrived on misunderstandings. I can be kind and a good friend, supportive and the like, it's not as simple as me just being selfish. But I just get very confused by my insecurities and my boundaries and sense of self are very weak and blurred.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sometimes I think that I will just not have a normal life like everyone else, you know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.  I'm ambivalent about whether this is a good thing or not.  As far as functioning as a human being, it's a bit of a problem.  As far as not feeling like shit on a regular basis, it's a bit of a problem.  But at least I know I am alive and I'm not dead inside.

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  • 2 months later...

I thought I'd revive this thread to celebrate my total inability to interact with human beings in a healthy manner and my total inability to understand what they want from me. I believe I have destroyed yet another relationship because of these failings.

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what do you want from yourself?

if you've never been shown how, how can you know how to interact healthily? I'm only starting to really understand now how deficient my upbringing was....it is possible to learn...with time and compassion...

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Heya fellow disorders,

I read this book that I'm not sure about recommending.

It's called "Party of One: The Loner's Manifesto."

I haven't got it in front of me, it's in a different city at home.

First, I thought it was a bit arrogant to call it "the" anything.

But for the most part, it was kind of cool to read about how it's okay and not just okay, but even *good* to (for example, as I have) go to Vegas alone and enjoy it in a different way than others. (The author went to Disneyland alone and had a unique experience.)

It got a bit annoying b/c she's fairly well flighty in her writing style, which my OCPD side found irritating and hard to follow. And b/c she really had no wisdom to offer about how to get along with what she calls the "nonloners."

And b/c in reaction (I think) to the pathologizing of "loners" by "nonloners," she spends a lot of energy and ink talking about how loners rule and nonloners drool.

But on the whole, it was nice to think that I'm not the only "only" in the world.

My psychiatrist lets me be comfortable with my need and desire to be alone, to do things alone, to have one friend at a time, to do my own thing in the same room where DH does his own thing, to have space, to have quiet.

Reading a book telling me there are others who are alone by choice too was helpful. In small doses.

B/c you know, it's about people, and I'd *so much* rather read about a bunch of stuff that happened.

Ah hell, I still feel like a weirdo when everyone keeps telling me I *should* have a whole wack of friends. I think if people would have stopped telling me that when I was small, I would have never thought I was a weirdo.

--ncc--

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I thought I'd revive this thread to celebrate my total inability to interact with human beings in a healthy manner and my total inability to understand what they want from me. I believe I have destroyed yet another relationship because of these failings.

do you want to share more details?

i agree with nestling, we can't expect to know how to play the rules of the game when no one ever taught us. not to compare life to chess... but think of how hard it is to learn chess. life is even harder, the rules are less concrete.

don't beat yourself up about it.

it sucks total and complete ass, yes.

but maybe you can find a way to get the rule book, you know?

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do you want to share more details?

I want people to be as open and honest and willing to trust and love as I am and they don't and they aren't. They protect themselves and I can't understand it. I keep pushing until I push them away because I can't see that they don't want or can't handle my love.

but maybe you can find a way to get the rule book, you know?

To get the rule book would require that someone trust me and care enough about me to help me learn it. I can read all the books I want, but if I don't have someone else willing to help me learn, I'm fucked. Some would argue, I am fucked regardless.

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myself, I'm finding therapy a good place to learn. I'm not dx'ed with a pd, but have traits of a bunch of them..have never had a 'relationship' but am learning more and more in preparation every day...I hope...

do you protect yourself?

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but maybe you can find a way to get the rule book, you know?

To get the rule book would require that someone trust me and care enough about me to help me learn it. I can read all the books I want, but if I don't have someone else willing to help me learn, I'm fucked. Some would argue, I am fucked regardless.

i got the rules from my therapist (and books he gave me, heh.)

granted, he did care about me, because he had to do a lot of work with me, but a therapist can help you learn. my therapist and i would role-play conversations even.

i don't know if this would work for you.

but i don't think you're fucked. there are ways.

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Right now I am still fighting the mood disorder fight. I don't think there is much chance of making significant progress on the personality disorder front until I can get a handle on my emotions. I'm not a big fan of therapy, but maybe once, or if, I get my moods and emotions stabilized, I will feel up to tackling the things I feel and how I interact with other people. There doesn't seem to be much progress on the BP, so it will probably be awhile.

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i kind of think i maybe have my moods in order, but it's hard to tell, i mean, i think now, it's tackling the interpersonal, and i feel like WAH! it throws me off into these extreme feelings and in some way, with my moods being all messed up before, i couldn't really see how connected it all was to the interactions, to the ebbs and flows of my situation, to how one little comment, gesture or action on the part of something else could send me spiralling. but i don't know. maybe i don't have my moods in order. just a sort of wobbly weevil lithium orderish - cut the ends off kind of stable.

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yes, personality disorders suck ass...can i ask which you are suspected of having?? getting labeled a bpd or schizoid sucks ass but i'd ignore the dumb dx and focus on you. re-evaluate the way you deal with situations and look at it with a critical eye. we overreact or underreact whatever the case is, but it's probably unhealthy. you don't need a therapist, just think how an unbiased person would evaluate the situation.....

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If I was honest with my pdoc, I would probably get a BPD dx. I don't know whether working with a therapist would help or not. I think I am pretty much beyond help, at least it feels that way.

no, you're not. a tdoc could help you get coping skills to deal with things. just look for a tdoc that knows how to deal with bpd. (i'm a fan of dbt for bpd, but transference focused therapy and others can help.)

hope is out there.

i'm sorry you feel hopeless. being without hope feels awful.

penny

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no, you're not. a tdoc could help you get coping skills to deal with things. just look for a tdoc that knows how to deal with bpd. (i'm a fan of dbt for bpd, but transference focused therapy and others can help.)

I don't know that I could ever trust a therapist enough to open up and be 100% honest and if I can't do that, then no therapist can help me. I've been burned by so many people that I trusted, I don't know if I can ever trust again.

hope is out there.

i'm sorry you feel hopeless. being without hope feels awful.

penny

Thank you for caring. I know intellectually that there is hope, but emotionally, I don't feel it. I feel cold and empty and alone.

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  • 2 months later...

Heya,

Personality disorders really do suck.

I can so relate to the feeling of wanting to run away to somewhere far and isolated!

My psychiatrist and I have been, interestingly, focusing more on the personality stuff than the BP and medications -- it's like he's letting me and my FP manage that until we need him, and working on a careful diagnosis and framework for the non-BP person inside of me.

That's what I think anyway.

I'm looking more and more schizoid, which is interesting, and explains a lot.

I feel that if everyone had just stopped telling me I needed to have friends, I wouldn't have cared.

I'm just so comfortable being alone.

And I'm not sure this needs to change, and I'm working on stabilizing the freaking bipolar anyway which is enough to deal with at the moment, but it's going to become a focus in our marriage counselling I'm sure.

So yeah, unless we want things to change, it's not going to happen.

I stopped drinking.

I take medication, see a psychiatrist, and do a lot of CBT now that meds have made it so I can concentrate.

But to change me?

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