when you just can't fall back asleep

[dancesintherain]

I asked this previously, I think, but it must have been within my blog and I can't come up with the answers (nor can I remember them).  What do you do when you wake up super early (currently 2:30am) and you simply cannot for the life of you fall back asleep?  This is after a regular (i.e. not too early) bedtime.  It's also in a regular (i.e. not manic) mood state...no signs of hypomania or mania present.  I just truly physically cannot fall back asleep.  I don't know if my body woke up from a nightmare that I don't remember (thank you prazosin) and therefore subconsciously I'm anxious about falling back asleep or what.  No clue about the case. But for now, I don't really care, except to the degree that it impacts treatment. 

So far (including this morning), I've tried:

• redoing the lavendar pillow mist/spray stuff that helps with soothing sensory stuff (actually nearly all of this is sensory stuff)
• listening to really gentle and slow classical music
• doing a progressive muscle relaxation
• doing a reasonable brief and easy to follow meditation
• taking a bubble bath

I'm sure there are more ideas out there.  I'm probably going to go back to my room and lay down in the darkness, but I figured I'd ask while I'm awake so that I have suggestions for the future.

Thanks,

dances

[cloudmonger]

Good question. I have this problem sometimes also...not sure what the best solution is.

Sometimes (for me) eating a tiny bit of plain (non-sugary) carbs (like 2 handfuls of popcorn or a couple rice cakes) with a glass of warm milk helps. Sounds random, but I've tried what you mentioned above and the popcorn/warm milk thing has helped. Maybe the calcium in the milk or the small about of carbs induces relaxation? Chamomile/Valerian tea can also be helpful if you don't drink milk.

Edited January 9, 2017 by cloudmonger

[dancesintherain]

thanks--hadn't even thought of my sleepytime tea.  never heard of the plain carbs! interesting.

i can add on "lay under weighted blanket" for a bit.  I can't do that an entire night/morning, but it helps a bit.

i did make it back to sleep with hte assistance of that for at least another two or three hours.  according to my fitbit I got 8 hours in total, but woke up 16 separate times (sometimes are really brief).

it's just a good thing that I can't drive currently.  I wouldn't even if I could. 

[melissaw72]

As long as I am not too restless, getting really nice and warm under covers, lying in darkness, in a cool room.  Room temperature can make a difference.  Sometimes if the room is too warm I can't sleep for the life of me.

Other times I do things that I might need to do later in the day, or else I feel like I am wasting time ... and that in itself causes anxiety for me.

FWIW ... And I am NOT saying tea doesn't work, but personally for me about drinking tea, it doesn't help because it waked me up because I have to pee.

You mentioned lavender ... it somewhat helps me but only with relaxing me.  It doesn't help me fall asleep.  Although I use lavender ice/warm packs that smell like lavender.  Maybe that would help?  Never tried a spray.

[CrazyRedhead]

Most of the time, my sleep meds do work okay, unless I'm really super-stressed. 

When that happens, I like taking an epsom salt bath when I can't sleep...It never fails for me.

This gives instructions on how to prepare epsom salt bath (really easy):

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13952/why-everyone-should-try-an-epsom-salt-bath.html

[dancesintherain]

thank you both.  this whole being stuck awake early in the morning thing sucks.  fortunately, it's only happened three times in the past two weeks, so that's not too awful.  my definition of early is 4:30am or earlier.  Sometimes I'm stuck awake (hence the question).  It's the rare time where after being awake for an hour or so I manage to make it back to sleep.

[notloki]

I take a longer acting hypnotic, and a lot of it. Most hypnotics don't last that long as the were designed for people who had trouble falling asleep or woke up early in the night (early insomnia) and a lot of it.

This is called late insomnia, it is surprising common in people who who have a depressive disorder.So much so that insomnia is one of the dignostic criteria for depression.

 

[dancesintherain]

Thanks notloki. I had forgotten about that.  My psychiatrist was reluctant to add an additional medication on last time we met...I think in part because I had just started to seem stable.  But I'm not 100% sure.  

[Flash]

I've had severe insomnia since I was very young. Self-hypnosis can sometimes help, but mostly Nothing works. I went over three years on 3 hours or less each night (2011-2014), and I only got 5 hours of sleep the previous two years. You become acclimated to it to a certain degree, but you never feel well. I'm sometimes in bed 12-16 hours these days, and I'm still dead tired almost all the time. I usually max out at 5 hours sleep, however.  I just stay in bed a long time, because I'm so tired. The best day of sleep I've ever had was back in 2008 or 2009. I slipped and fell, and hit my head on a big rock. I should have gone to the ER, but I didn't. I slept 12 hours straight through. It was absolutely heavenly, despite the big bump on my head. More recently, I was only getting 0-45 minutes of sleep each night. I became psychotic after 8 days, and then became manic a little while after that. Definitely not recommended. I didn't crash, for the first time in my life, but I still entered a very bad depression. Most of my meds stopped working, so I just hope and pray that the current day turns out to be different. But no luck so far. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Flash

[The Right Honourable Jimmy]

I never force myself to sleep. I used to and when I did I always felt that the insomnia was bad. I feel like like sometimes if you just don't force yourself to sleep and just accept it, it helps. That's what I've been doing...I mean my sleeping pattern is shit during holidays but I just don't try to sleep. I let myself go to sleep naturally. I haven't been following a set bed routine for the past 2 years and I must say that even if I've experienced insomnia I haven't been annoyed or complained once. So in practicality...no insomnia

I only recommend this if you're not manic...if you are and aware then try and talk to your doc if your manic self lets you

[melissaw72]

7 hours ago, The Right Honourable Jimmy said:

I never force myself to sleep. I used to and when I did I always felt that the insomnia was bad. I feel like like sometimes if you just don't force yourself to sleep and just accept it, it helps. That's what I've been doing...I mean my sleeping pattern is shit during holidays but I just don't try to sleep. I let myself go to sleep naturally. I haven't been following a set bed routine for the past 2 years and I must say that even if I've experienced insomnia I haven't been annoyed or complained once. So in practicality...no insomnia

 

Same with me.  Other than days I have to go out to appts, errands, or whatever (being gone no more than 6 hours or do) I let myself sleep when I need to naturally ... fortunately I have that choice to sleep whenever.  And if I wake up early or cant fall asleep, I just get up and do whatever (quietly, so I don't wake anyone up).  I accept it, and go with the flow of things.  That way I don't get stressed out if I wake up early or can't fall sleep.

[Alien Navel Cord]

my gf has shift work so she goes to bed around 2am and then her body naturally wakes her up around 7am each morning. She has a heck of a time getting back to sleep. Is that considered insomnia? Or no

[CrazyRedhead]

2 hours ago, Alien Navel Cord said:

my gf has shift work so she goes to bed around 2am and then her body naturally wakes her up around 7am each morning. She has a heck of a time getting back to sleep. Is that considered insomnia? Or no

It might be "shift-work disorder": https://sleepfoundation.org/shift-work/content/shift-work-disorder-–-symptoms........

This could be a contributing factor to her irritability that you've mentioned.

Edited January 10, 2017 by CrazyRedhead

[Alien Navel Cord]

20 hours ago, CrazyRedhead said:

It might be "shift-work disorder": https://sleepfoundation.org/shift-work/content/shift-work-disorder-–-symptoms........

This could be a contributing factor to her irritability that you've mentioned.

omg yes that is perfect, all of those criteria fit. She's always tired, irritable, wakes up after 4-5 hours of sleep, maybe 6 if she's lucky... yup all of those. SO she needs a daytime job. Well...

[CrazyRedhead]

2 minutes ago, Alien Navel Cord said:

SO she needs a daytime job. Well...

Yes, I think if she had a regular daytime job, she could go to bed earlier, get more sleep, and be in a better mood.......However, convincing her of this could be the major obstacle.

[Alien Navel Cord]

1 minute ago, CrazyRedhead said:

Yes, I think if she had a regular daytime job, she could go to bed earlier, get more sleep, and be in a better mood.......However, convincing her of this could be the major obstacle.

Yeah. We'd like to move to another state in the next 5-6 years and she wants to transfer, and the only way to do that is stay at her current position...

[CrazyRedhead]

That's unfortunate that she basically has no choice....Maybe a mild sleep med could help her sleep a few hours later?

Would she even consider that?

Edited January 11, 2017 by CrazyRedhead

[Alien Navel Cord]

19 minutes ago, CrazyRedhead said:

That's unfortunate that she basically has no choice....Maybe a mild sleep med could help her sleep a few hours later?

Would she even consider that?

She takes the Nyquil stuff, and that helps her sometimes. She'd been prescribed trazodone (?) and it helped but only for 1-3 nights then she got a tolerance and it wouldn't work so she'd have to take it like only a few times a month for it to work...

[dancesintherain]

Ironic that this one got bumped as I got stuck awake at 4am.  I took a bath, a shower, tried a meditation, and just got dressed and did New Years cards.  I unfortunately can't just let myself be comfortable with not falling back asleep because it makes me worried I'm getting manic.  Ironic, because this time I think it's anything but that.

[Alien Navel Cord]

2 minutes ago, dancesintherain said:

Ironic that this one got bumped as I got stuck awake at 4am.  I took a bath, a shower, tried a meditation, and just got dressed and did New Years cards.  I unfortunately can't just let myself be comfortable with not falling back asleep because it makes me worried I'm getting manic.  Ironic, because this time I think it's anything but that.

Well hopefully you can get back to sleep, although I don't know how possible that is with being dressed...

[dancesintherain]

I spoke out of order.  Clothing didn't come until 5:30.  I figured 1.5ish hours was enough attempts.

[dancesintherain]

I'm now wondering how much of the waking up is pain-related.  I've been dealing with the same tension headache (it doesn't feel like a migraine, but I'm about ready to give in and try an imitrex to see if I'm wrong) for the past four days, on and off.  I haven't noticed it in particular upon waking.  But I just used a shoulder/neck heat wrap warming thing and I was about ready to fall asleep.  Maybe just because it was warm.  But maybe because it was relaxing really sore muscles.  It'll be interesting to see.

[melissaw72]

4 hours ago, dancesintherain said:

I'm now wondering how much of the waking up is pain-related.  I've been dealing with the same tension headache (it doesn't feel like a migraine, but I'm about ready to give in and try an imitrex to see if I'm wrong) for the past four days, on and off.  I haven't noticed it in particular upon waking.  But I just used a shoulder/neck heat wrap warming thing and I was about ready to fall asleep.  Maybe just because it was warm.  But maybe because it was relaxing really sore muscles.  It'll be interesting to see.

You know what works for me for tension headaches is flexeril (a muscle relaxer).  If pdoc will prescribe it for you, and it doesn't react with anything (ask pdoc about that) and you can tolerate it, I recommend it, taking it from experience.  I take it and immediately at least lay down to sleep or even just rest with no/minimal noise (or else it doesn't work), preferably in a dark room.  Wake up with the tension gone.  If any residual headache is left, it means that I just avoided a migraine, and Excedrin pretty much gets rid of it.

Ice packs also help with tension headaches that I get, especially the lavender scented ones.

[Alien Navel Cord]

12 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

You know what works for me for tension headaches is flexeril (a muscle relaxer).  

An urgent care doc put me on Baclofen, 1 tablet every 6 hours or something like that - another muscle relaxant. But I even took 2 and it did nothing. I still have some old flexeril from 2009 (will it still work??) that I could take when my back goes out and see what happens. Makes me super sleepy though. Which is good, maybe that is what is needed in this circumstance.

[melissaw72]

3 hours ago, Alien Navel Cord said:

An urgent care doc put me on Baclofen, 1 tablet every 6 hours or something like that - another muscle relaxant. But I even took 2 and it did nothing. I still have some old flexeril from 2009 (will it still work??) that I could take when my back goes out and see what happens. Makes me super sleepy though. Which is good, maybe that is what is needed in this circumstance.

I've tried baclofen in the past and it didn't do anything for me either.  Taking expired meds is never a good idea. 

However, I was desperate one time and took an out-dated med, and PERSONALLY, IME, I took it without a problem.  NOT saying for you to do this.  I am saying from MY experience only.

Not recommending to do this.

[dtac]

I actually find that television/internet/cell phone helps to a certain degree. Usually I find something just moderately interesting to watch or read, so that my mind doesn't focus too much, but has enough pull that I don't get stuck in my head wondering how damn late it is. I try to practice (mostly) good sleep hygiene, so I don't get into bed until I'm sleepy (or I think I am) and if I can't fall asleep in 15-30 min, I get out of bed and go in another room for a little while. I don't know if it really affects my insomnia or not, but I trained myself to do it years ago based on a gdoc's advice, so I just keep it up.

Right now I'm riding the insomnia wave, so I'm switching up sleep meds. I've never found a non-RX way of battling insomnia that truly works.

I'm also working with my neurologist to pin-point what is causing my migraines, and I get those same multi-day tension-style headaches like what you're describing. My neuro told me to take (in my case) Axert and 600mg of naproxen at onset, and if it didn't clear up after 2h, take another Axert. He said naproxen has been shown to be the most effective OTC pain reliever for migraines, hence the reason it's in Treximet (Imitrex + 500mg of naproxen in a single tablet, very expensive migraine med.) You may want to give the Imitrex a shot (if you have enough tablets) and see if it helps. I go back this next week for a follow-up, so I'll see if he has any additional advice.

[melissaw72]

11 hours ago, dtac said:

Right now I'm riding the insomnia wave, so I'm switching up sleep meds. I've never found a non-RX way of battling insomnia that truly works.

Have you tried an epsom salt bath?  I've done that before and it can be very relaxing.

11 hours ago, dtac said:

and I get those same multi-day tension-style headaches like what you're describing. My neuro told me to take (in my case) Axert and 600mg of naproxen at onset, and if it didn't clear up after 2h, take another Axert.

I'm not sure if I have already mentioned this or not, but flexeril really helps with tension headaches.  I take a flexeril, immediately lay down in a dark room (or as dark as it can be).  I always fall asleep and wake up feeling so much better.

[Alien Navel Cord]

21 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

I've tried baclofen in the past and it didn't do anything for me either.  Taking expired meds is never a good idea. 

However, I was desperate one time and took an out-dated med, and PERSONALLY, IME, I took it without a problem.  NOT saying for you to do this.  I am saying from MY experience only.

Not recommending to do this.

Oh I take expired things all the time and either they don't work well or are weak, or they are still good. Not sure if the expiration date thing is a conspiracy or not.

[dtac]

4 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

Have you tried an epsom salt bath?  I've done that before and it can be very relaxing.

I'm not sure if I have already mentioned this or not, but flexeril really helps with tension headaches.  I take a flexeril, immediately lay down in a dark room (or as dark as it can be).  I always fall asleep and wake up feeling so much better.

Never tried an epsom salt bath. I might have to do that one of these times.

I've tried Flexeril, as well as Fioricet (which is supposed to help with tension headache pain,) and they don't help get rid of the headache. It's very weird.

[melissaw72]

36 minutes ago, Alien Navel Cord said:

Oh I take expired things all the time and either they don't work well or are weak, or they are still good. Not sure if the expiration date thing is a conspiracy or not.

I'm not sure about the expiration date thing ... I have prescriptions that say they expire in a year, but when I look at the actual pill bottle from the manufacturer, it says it doesn't expire for another year or 2.  Idk if all meds are like that, I just know that the ones I have all have expiration dates far more than a year like the pharmacy says.  So I go by the date on the actual bottle.  If I take ones older than that, it is for an emergency.

23 minutes ago, dtac said:

Never tried an epsom salt bath. I might have to do that one of these times.

I've tried Flexeril, as well as Fioricet (which is supposed to help with tension headache pain,) and they don't help get rid of the headache. It's very weird.

With the flexeril, did you lay down and try to fall asleep right away?  Because for me at least, if I take a muscle relaxer and do not lay down and fall asleep pretty much right away, it actually works against me and the headache/migraine gets worse.

[dtac]

2 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

I'm not sure about the expiration date thing ... I have prescriptions that say they expire in a year, but when I look at the actual pill bottle from the manufacturer, it says it doesn't expire for another year or 2.  Idk if all meds are like that, I just know that the ones I have all have expiration dates far more than a year like the pharmacy says.  So I go by the date on the actual bottle.  If I take ones older than that, it is for an emergency.

With the flexeril, did you lay down and try to fall asleep right away?  Because for me at least, if I take a muscle relaxer and do not lay down and fall asleep pretty much right away, it actually works against me and the headache/migraine gets worse.

Given the problems I have with insomnia, Flexeril doesn't make me sleepy at all. I do usually take it at night and lay down, which seems to help at the time. When I have a multi-day headache, it just comes right back the next day, the Flexeril doesn't resolve it.

[melissaw72]

2 hours ago, dtac said:

Given the problems I have with insomnia, Flexeril doesn't make me sleepy at all. I do usually take it at night and lay down, which seems to help at the time. When I have a multi-day headache, it just comes right back the next day, the Flexeril doesn't resolve it.

Have you tried just plain excedrin?  (or migraine excedrin, which is exactly like the regular exced ... see the ingredients caffeine/aspirin/acetaminophen  ... same as original.  And the price is higher than regular exced).    Sometimes that works for me, along with ice packs. 

Ice packs can be a life saver and sometimes makes or breaks whether the headache goes away or not.

[IcePrincess88]

Thank you for this tread! I have the exact same problem. I'll wake up between 2-4am and watch tv for a while because I can not fall back asleep.

[IcePrincess88]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 3:12 PM, dancesintherain said:

I'm now wondering how much of the waking up is pain-related.  I've been dealing with the same tension headache (it doesn't feel like a migraine, but I'm about ready to give in and try an imitrex to see if I'm wrong) for the past four days, on and off.  I haven't noticed it in particular upon waking.  But I just used a shoulder/neck heat wrap warming thing and I was about ready to fall asleep.  Maybe just because it was warm.  But maybe because it was relaxing really sore muscles.  It'll be interesting to see.

I take Imitrex for migraines and it's the BEST headache medicine I've ever taken  I've been on the injection and the pill. They both work amazingly. The injection works super quick, but it does make your heart beat fast for a few minutes. The pills have less side effects but work just as good.

[dancesintherain]

2 hours ago, IcePrincess88 said:

I take Imitrex for migraines and it's the BEST headache medicine I've ever taken  I've been on the injection and the pill. They both work amazingly. The injection works super quick, but it does make your heart beat fast for a few minutes. The pills have less side effects but work just as good.

I love and swear by teh stuff also!  My only concern is that it won't help if it's a tension headache, only if it's a migraine. It feels like a tenison headache.  But I'm tempted to just try and find out.

[melissaw72]

FWIW, with me at least, if I don't calm down a tension headache soon after I get it, it almost always will lead into a migraine.