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I've had a reoccurence of my depression in the last few months, or perhaps it was always there, but the antidepressant had just stopped working for me. I was taking citalopram 40mg, and had been for the last five years, but around August or September last year, I felt that dark cloud of depression start seeping back into my life. It could have started before then (several things had gone on in my life the past year before that time), but that is the time I really started to notice it. I ended up going to my primary care doctor, and was given some Trintellex ( vortioxetine ) to try out. After barely more than a week (5mg for 6 days, 10mg for a few days after that), I had to stop it due to the extreme irritability and tearfulness I hexperienced  (which stopped right after I went off it).

 

Now I've been trying bupropion, 150mg for the last two months, and now 300mg. I don't feel better. I don't know if I feel worse, but I don't feel better... honestly, I've been feeling more tense/irritated with people within the last week. A good part of me wonders if I'm just making this all up, and am just complaining and overreacting to the normal ups and downs of life, but I don't like feeling like this, whatever it is. I hate to keep asking my doctor for new meds like this. I feel silly, like I'm being whiny and difficult. And then a part of me wonders if it's really true. I can still feel happy, forget about things when I'm with others, but then when I'm by myself it comes back and I begin to feel a low mood again.

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12 hours ago, Bunnyrabbit said:

And then a part of me wonders if it's really true. I can still feel happy, forget about things when I'm with others, but then when I'm by myself it comes back and I begin to feel a low mood again.

I can relate to this.  I think the distraction of other people helps me to forget about things until I am alone again.

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18 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

I can relate to this.  I think the distraction of other people helps me to forget about things until I am alone again.

This is the part that makes me doubt myself so much. Like, if I'm able to be happy and laugh with others, surely it can't be THAT bad, bad enough to need meds, etc. And then the  rational part of my mind kicks in and reminds me of the characteristics of atypical depression, but the self doubt tends to win with it's sheer relentlessness.

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7 minutes ago, Bunnyrabbit said:

This is the part that makes me doubt myself so much. Like, if I'm able to be happy and laugh with others, surely it can't be THAT bad, bad enough to need meds, etc. And then the  rational part of my mind kicks in and reminds me of the characteristics of atypical depression, but the self doubt tends to win with it's sheer relentlessness.

I know what you mean.  For me, I still have a MI, and am glad for distraction because I live with MI all the other days in my life.  It isn't like I can leave the distraction and be ok again like others without MI can.  Meds are making me be able to help me get through each day.  Without them I couldn't even be in a conversation for distraction by others.

I worry about people thinking I am faking, but then I think, 'what would happen if I went off of meds?'

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Please don't feel bad about needing to sort your meds out with your doctor, it's their job & you deserve to feel better. It's easy to try & convince ourselves it's not our mental health but when it doesn't just go away like other people, chance are it is. I can relate to the med struggle & questioning everything, ect though. I hope something can help you soon though, it sucks to be trapped in that shitty place.

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13 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

I know what you mean.  For me, I still have a MI, and am glad for distraction because I live with MI all the other days in my life.  It isn't like I can leave the distraction and be ok again like others without MI can.  Meds are making me be able to help me get through each day.  Without them I couldn't even be in a conversation for distraction by others.

I worry about people thinking I am faking, but then I think, 'what would happen if I went off of meds?'

I guess a part of it is that I *know* I don't have it bad as many others. It's "just" depression, and "just" anxiety, and I'm still able to function, keep a job, etc, but just not do it all as well as I could, and I feel crappy about myself and life. I'm just kind of scared I might go back to where I was five or six years ago.

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2 hours ago, Remnants said:

Please don't feel bad about needing to sort your meds out with your doctor, it's their job & you deserve to feel better. It's easy to try & convince ourselves it's not our mental health but when it doesn't just go away like other people, chance are it is. I can relate to the med struggle & questioning everything, ect though. I hope something can help you soon though, it sucks to be trapped in that shitty place.

Thanks. I've thought about it, and I plan to ask about trying Lexapro, since when I started antidepressants they gave me some samples of that before switching over to citalopram due to the cost (this was a few months before the generic version of lexapro came out), and that had helped. Hopefully it would be different enough from the citalopram that it would still work, despite the citalopram no longer working. If not, I'll ask about another SSRI, since the two others I've tried (an atypical antidepressant and a SNRI) seem to not be working. Perhaps my brain is mostly chemically missing the serotonin/is more reactive to it than the other neurotransmitters. I mean, I've thought it through, it makes sense to me, but it's not like *I'm* the doctor, and then I fear they'll see me as the annoying patient who thinks they know everything.

And I could swear the upped dose of the bupropion is making me anxious and bringing my social anxiety out again..... I have an appointment in under two weeks, I'm tempted to stop taking it in the meantime if this is true.

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27 minutes ago, Bunnyrabbit said:

I guess a part of it is that I *know* I don't have it bad as many others. It's "just" depression, and "just" anxiety, and I'm still able to function, keep a job, etc, but just not do it all as well as I could, and I feel crappy about myself and life. I'm just kind of scared I might go back to where I was five or six years ago.

Depression and anxiety can be really disabling.  I don't think that it is a matter of  (see first bold).

What would it mean for you to do it better than you are/could ... is there something that stands out that makes you feel like this way?

You aren't crappy ... please try not to feel that way.  Maybe getting back on track with meds will help you feel better about everything.

When is your next appt with your pdoc? (and/or tdoc?)

 

On 2/13/2017 at 7:14 AM, Bunnyrabbit said:

A good part of me wonders if I'm just making this all up, and am just complaining and overreacting to the normal ups and downs of life, but I don't like feeling like this, whatever it is.

IMO you aren't making it all up.  That is the MI talking.

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1 hour ago, melissaw72 said:

Depression and anxiety can be really disabling.  I don't think that it is a matter of  (see first bold).

What would it mean for you to do it better than you are/could ... is there something that stands out that makes you feel like this way?

You aren't crappy ... please try not to feel that way.  Maybe getting back on track with meds will help you feel better about everything.

When is your next appt with your pdoc? (and/or tdoc?)

 

IMO you aren't making it all up.  That is the MI talking.

If I were to do better, I would not be as irritable with family and aquaintences (even if I don't act on it and snap at them, I have felt like it a great deal lately). I'd be less indecisive,  more confident, less prone to crying with little to no provocation. Maybe I'd actually sleep better. I'd feel more hope for the future, and not feeling like in five, ten years time things will still be at this same standstill. I'd not feel guilty for silly things, like people being nice to me. I don't think there's any specific reason for this. There are probably some things that could have made it worse in the past year or two, but I've felt this way off and on since around puberty.

And thank you. I hope so too. I don't like feeling this way again. I have an appointment with my primary care doctor on like the 26th, 27th of this month, and I plan to discuss the med thing then.

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3 minutes ago, Bunnyrabbit said:

If I were to do better, I would not be as irritable with family and aquaintences (even if I don't act on it and snap at them, I have felt like it a great deal lately). I'd be less indecisive,  more confident, less prone to crying with little to no provocation. Maybe I'd actually sleep better. I'd feel more hope for the future, and not feeling like in five, ten years time things will still be at this same standstill. I'd not feel guilty for silly things, like people being nice to me. I don't think there's any specific reason for this. There are probably some things that could have made it worse in the past year or two, but I've felt this way off and on since around puberty.

And thank you. I hope so too. I don't like feeling this way again. I have an appointment with my primary care doctor on like the 26th, 27th of this month, and I plan to discuss the med thing then.

Idk how to word what I am trying to describe, but I can give you an example of how I know that I am not faking etc.  On meds I look "normal," and I've been told a few times that I don't need meds because I don't "look" like anything is wrong.  But I keep in mind that if I wasn't on meds I would be completely different, and would not be able to get together with a bunch of people in the first place.  On meds, I can get together with people, but it is only a distraction because after that I go home and things go back to what they were before the distraction.  And I did my best when going out.  I couldn't have done anything better than I did. 

Does this make sense?  I'm trying to word what I am trying to say but I don't know if it is coming out right.

I don't really mean to center this around medication, but IMO it is a large component of it all.  But so is therapy, DRs appts, etc ...

I hope your appt goes well with your DR at the end of the month.

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That sounds like a good plan. It's logical & reasonable, especially as you found it to help when you started on AD's. I think in terms on mental health & with that kind of reasoning it's not over stepping to at least put it forward. But I also look at things from a more bio-psycho-social model from my studies than a doctor who is trained in the medical model.

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Bunny, I can relate to everything you're saying, but I just wanted to comment on the Citalopram/ Lexapro thing. In my experience, when a med stops working, I need to be off of it for a fairly long time (more than just a few months) before it has a chance to work again. If I were you, I would not risk switching to Lexapro as it is very similar to Citalopram. I think this would be a good time to try something new. The good thing is, if one SSRI has worked for you, there's a good chance that others will work too. For me, SSRI's don't work and I have more success with the SNRI class (Effexor, Cymbalta, Fetzima). If you find that another SSRI doesn't work, you may want to try an SNRI.

I've been on Wellbutrin 150 mg for 16 days and I'm not noticing any difference yet. But Wellbutrin is known to increase aggression, but this may pass as you get more used to the drug. It's easier to get annoyed and reactive on it. Plenty of people report that.

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1 hour ago, DopamineSick said:

Bunny, I can relate to everything you're saying, but I just wanted to comment on the Citalopram/ Lexapro thing. In my experience, when a med stops working, I need to be off of it for a fairly long time (more than just a few months) before it has a chance to work again. If I were you, I would not risk switching to Lexapro as it is very similar to Citalopram. I think this would be a good time to try something new. The good thing is, if one SSRI has worked for you, there's a good chance that others will work too. For me, SSRI's don't work and I have more success with the SNRI class (Effexor, Cymbalta, Fetzima). If you find that another SSRI doesn't work, you may want to try an SNRI.

I've been on Wellbutrin 150 mg for 16 days and I'm not noticing any difference yet. But Wellbutrin is known to increase aggression, but this may pass as you get more used to the drug. It's easier to get annoyed and reactive on it. Plenty of people report that.

Yeah, that was something I had wondered, since I know they are chemically very similar. With that in mind, perhaps it's best if I ask for a different SSRI. It's comforting to know things from that class have a better chance of working.  And yeah, being annoyed and reactive to that annoyance is something that I do NOT need right now. I'm tired of snapping (or wanting to snap) at people. I'm sure they feel the same. And the irritability is something I do not need to have such an ease in. I kind of feel like with that, and considering I've been on it for two months at 150mg, and 300mg for several weeks, it's best to try something else. I also feel like it's increased my anxiety since upping the dose, and I know that is in the reported side effects as well.

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7 hours ago, melissaw72 said:

Idk how to word what I am trying to describe, but I can give you an example of how I know that I am not faking etc.  On meds I look "normal," and I've been told a few times that I don't need meds because I don't "look" like anything is wrong.  But I keep in mind that if I wasn't on meds I would be completely different, and would not be able to get together with a bunch of people in the first place.  On meds, I can get together with people, but it is only a distraction because after that I go home and things go back to what they were before the distraction.  And I did my best when going out.  I couldn't have done anything better than I did. 

Does this make sense?  I'm trying to word what I am trying to say but I don't know if it is coming out right.

I don't really mean to center this around medication, but IMO it is a large component of it all.  But so is therapy, DRs appts, etc ...

I hope your appt goes well with your DR at the end of the month.

I understand what you're trying to say.  Like, when I got put on meds initially,  I still was depressed and socially anxious,  but it wasn't as bad, and I could function at a more normal level. I've never been to therapy, counseling, etc. I know it would help, but it's scary to make that jump, and to set myself up to be so specifically vulnerable with someone.

6 hours ago, Remnants said:

That sounds like a good plan. It's logical & reasonable, especially as you found it to help when you started on AD's. I think in terms on mental health & with that kind of reasoning it's not over stepping to at least put it forward. But I also look at things from a more bio-psycho-social model from my studies than a doctor who is trained in the medical model.

Yeah, I suppose what I fear is being seen as one of those patients who thinks they know more than what the doctor has learned in his or her years of education and experience, just based upon their own google search, but to me the reasoning I have seems fairly logical.

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You should never worry about being whiny and difficult. Almost all of us have had our turn on the med merry-go-round. It is normal and expected. It took years for me to find the cocktail that works best for me.

I'm sorry you are feeling low. My psychiatrist strongly advocates socializing as a means to combat depression so it is not surprising that you feel lower when you are alone. (though in my case it's usually the opposite)

Take care and don't give up. The right meds can make all the difference in the world. I also strongly encourage you to try therapy. The gold standard for combating depression is meds + therapy. 

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On 2/13/2017 at 4:14 AM, Bunnyrabbit said:

I've had a reoccurence of my depression in the last few months, or perhaps it was always there, but the antidepressant had just stopped working for me. I was taking citalopram 40mg, and had been for the last five years, but around August or September last year, I felt that dark cloud of depression start seeping back into my life. It could have started before then (several things had gone on in my life the past year before that time), but that is the time I really started to notice it. I ended up going to my primary care doctor, and was given some Trintellex ( vortioxetine ) to try out. After barely more than a week (5mg for 6 days, 10mg for a few days after that), I had to stop it due to the extreme irritability and tearfulness I hexperienced  (which stopped right after I went off it).

 

Now I've been trying bupropion, 150mg for the last two months, and now 300mg. I don't feel better. I don't know if I feel worse, but I don't feel better... honestly, I've been feeling more tense/irritated with people within the last week. A good part of me wonders if I'm just making this all up, and am just complaining and overreacting to the normal ups and downs of life, but I don't like feeling like this, whatever it is. I hate to keep asking my doctor for new meds like this. I feel silly, like I'm being whiny and difficult. And then a part of me wonders if it's really true. I can still feel happy, forget about things when I'm with others, but then when I'm by myself it comes back and I begin to feel a low mood again.

You aren't making it up. It's a very common issue for people with MI to doubt their diagnosis. Believe me. BTDT.

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19 hours ago, Bunnyrabbit said:

Thanks. I've thought about it, and I plan to ask about trying Lexapro, since when I started antidepressants they gave me some samples of that before switching over to citalopram due to the cost (this was a few months before the generic version of lexapro came out), and that had helped. Hopefully it would be different enough from the citalopram that it would still work, despite the citalopram no longer working. If not, I'll ask about another SSRI, since the two others I've tried (an atypical antidepressant and a SNRI) seem to not be working. Perhaps my brain is mostly chemically missing the serotonin/is more reactive to it than the other neurotransmitters. I mean, I've thought it through, it makes sense to me, but it's not like *I'm* the doctor, and then I fear they'll see me as the annoying patient who thinks they know everything.

And I could swear the upped dose of the bupropion is making me anxious and bringing my social anxiety out again..... I have an appointment in under two weeks, I'm tempted to stop taking it in the meantime if this is true.

I started with bupropion, which worked but not entirely. Then I added Lex. I've never looked back.  For me it was the combo that did the trick. I have never changed my Lexapro to the generic. But I did change switch from Wellbutrin to Aplenzin.  Bascially the initial mix is the same. I feel blessed.

BUT I still get depressed. I'm depressed right now, pretty badly, for the first time is AGES. It is terrifying. Utterly terrifying. The hole opened up in my reality and there is no bottom. As if everything I've done and worked toward was a vicious lie. Means nothing in the grand scheme of things. As I mean nothing, a speck of dust, pointless and meaningless.

Depression IS the upside down. The reverse of life. No MATTER how well the meds work, how great the therapy was, how WONDERFUL your life is, Depression reigns supreme and can tear it all down in a heartbeat.

-----------------
Half hour later.....

My girl came home from work. I made her bed while the kitties played and she face palmed her iphone.

Right this very minute, all is right with my world. See? lol 
I don't, but as long as we keep on truckin'.....

 

Edited by water
forgot to add the whole point: you're doing great. One day at a time. Keep questioning, keep asking. My life is blessed AND I get depressed.
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This is a good thread.  Something I've been thinking about as well.  I think I've learned that its good to keep going to the doctor to figure out a mix that works.   That depression (and anxiety) can come back.   For me the Anxiety is a lot less overwhelming and the PRN benzo plan can really help.   Depression.  GDoc warned me that for "some" people they get depression and are on meds for a while and they go off and are ok.   Which would be great but she said most of the time thats not true.  If you have more then a couple periods of depression I think you just have to say to yourself that you have an issue that you need to address long term.   You know like high blood pressure.   And the drugs can poop out.  Or the mix might not have been the best.   I tried citalipram or "Chillaxia" as I liked to call it.   It worked great for depression but I had all those crappy side effects and switched over to the current pile of pills ;-0    Anyhow I can "function" I can have good days and everyone has bad days. 

When I was at a low of lows (Twice in my life) two friends who have some kind of radar showed up and just did stuff to make me break out of a doom spiral.   And once as weird as this sounds I was so low I just can't tell you and this stupid movie hit me and I started laughing and I fell on the floor it was so funny.   So if they ever turn "The Darwin Awards" into pill form I think that would be my first choice of antidepressants.  

I hope you find a good mix that works.   Be patient!  Some of these dumb pills take months to work and thats a tough row to hoe but don't be like me and take something for a couple days and assume its not working.   Change with some meds is so subtle and slow that you get to the "I'm pretty ok" state without any aHAH! moments.

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14 hours ago, jt07 said:

You should never worry about being whiny and difficult. Almost all of us have had our turn on the med merry-go-round. It is normal and expected. It took years for me to find the cocktail that works best for me.

I'm sorry you are feeling low. My psychiatrist strongly advocates socializing as a means to combat depression so it is not surprising that you feel lower when you are alone. (though in my case it's usually the opposite)

Take care and don't give up. The right meds can make all the difference in the world. I also strongly encourage you to try therapy. The gold standard for combating depression is meds + therapy. 

I started the year out fully intending to try therapy, but the drive to actually follow through with that and make an appointment kind of went away. Now I really don't want to talk to some stranger about my problems, and whatever is going on in my head (not saying that SHOULDN'T do that, because I should...)

11 hours ago, Flash said:

You aren't making it up. It's a very common issue for people with MI to doubt their diagnosis. Believe me. BTDT.

Thanks. This self doubt makes it all the worse, though

4 hours ago, water said:

I started with bupropion, which worked but not entirely. Then I added Lex. I've never looked back.  For me it was the combo that did the trick. I have never changed my Lexapro to the generic. But I did change switch from Wellbutrin to Aplenzin.  Bascially the initial mix is the same. I feel blessed.

BUT I still get depressed. I'm depressed right now, pretty badly, for the first time is AGES. It is terrifying. Utterly terrifying. The hole opened up in my reality and there is no bottom. As if everything I've done and worked toward was a vicious lie. Means nothing in the grand scheme of things. As I mean nothing, a speck of dust, pointless and meaningless.

Depression IS the upside down. The reverse of life. No MATTER how well the meds work, how great the therapy was, how WONDERFUL your life is, Depression reigns supreme and can tear it all down in a heartbeat.

-----------------
Half hour later.....

My girl came home from work. I made her bed while the kitties played and she face palmed her iphone.

Right this very minute, all is right with my world. See? lol 
I don't, but as long as we keep on truckin'.....

 

I get this too. I'll feel really shitty about something/myself/other people, and then something will happen to get my mind off of that, and then the self doubt takes hold. Then my mind decides to divert my thoughts to go along the lines of "you feel good now, what makes you think you're *actually* depressed? Everyone has their ups and downs in life." Or I'll remember whatever depressive focus my mind has decided to have be my theme, and Ill feel down, when really I shouldn't.

3 hours ago, HAL9000 said:

This is a good thread.  Something I've been thinking about as well.  I think I've learned that its good to keep going to the doctor to figure out a mix that works.   That depression (and anxiety) can come back.   For me the Anxiety is a lot less overwhelming and the PRN benzo plan can really help.   Depression.  GDoc warned me that for "some" people they get depression and are on meds for a while and they go off and are ok.   Which would be great but she said most of the time thats not true.  If you have more then a couple periods of depression I think you just have to say to yourself that you have an issue that you need to address long term.   You know like high blood pressure.   And the drugs can poop out.  Or the mix might not have been the best.   I tried citalipram or "Chillaxia" as I liked to call it.   It worked great for depression but I had all those crappy side effects and switched over to the current pile of pills ;-0    Anyhow I can "function" I can have good days and everyone has bad days. 

When I was at a low of lows (Twice in my life) two friends who have some kind of radar showed up and just did stuff to make me break out of a doom spiral.   And once as weird as this sounds I was so low I just can't tell you and this stupid movie hit me and I started laughing and I fell on the floor it was so funny.   So if they ever turn "The Darwin Awards" into pill form I think that would be my first choice of antidepressants.  

I hope you find a good mix that works.   Be patient!  Some of these dumb pills take months to work and thats a tough row to hoe but don't be like me and take something for a couple days and assume its not working.   Change with some meds is so subtle and slow that you get to the "I'm pretty ok" state without any aHAH! moments.

I was lucky enough that the first time I started on meds, the first one they had me tried worked. I supposed in a way I maybe expected it to be as easy this time around. I was also lucky in that it worked for five years or so. I never really had any side effects with the citalopram after I had been on it for a while (I had the initial nausea, dizziness, vision spinning a bit, but no more unless I missed some doses). It was a BITCH to get off of, though. I had pretty nasty discontinuation syndrome, brain zaps and all, although I understand it's one of the worse SSRI's to stop due to it's short half-life.

2 hours ago, Dphxa said:

Thus far I've had 4 episodes of depression.  From that I've learned that there is always hope of feeling better because I've also had 4 periods with almost no symptoms at all.  It will get better and when it does it will probably stay that way for a few years.  It is possible to survive those low periods and move on to periods of remission even though at the lowest low this is difficult to accept.  There isn't really a trick to it except just surviving the low periods long enough to get back to the periods of relief.

This time is not near as bad as five or so years ago, but I never want it to get to that point again. That was probably one of the lowest lows of my life back then. I suppose that's maybe why I'm trying to be a little more proactive about it this time. I found my voice, I found myself again, and I don't want to lose that.

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5 hours ago, HAL9000 said:

I hope you find a good mix that works.   Be patient!  Some of these dumb pills take months to work and thats a tough row to hoe but don't be like me and take something for a couple days and assume its not working.   Change with some meds is so subtle and slow that you get to the "I'm pretty ok" state without any aHAH! moments.

I agree with this.

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