Best Probiotics? What helps Mood disorders?

[Blahblah]

I just bought some Probiotics to try (Garden of Life brand - Mood +) It says 50 Billion live cultures & 16 different strains (for refrigeration). This was formulated by a MD Neurologist & nutritionist. I was overwhelmed with options (on Amazon) and decided on this one first because of the "Mood health"

I have been reading more research that indicates that the state of your Gut & it's bacteria not only affects your digestion/nutritional absorption, but also directly influences your brain. The lack of good bacteria (along with a large variety of strains) may also be linked to depression, stress, mood disorders and cognitive decline.

Has anyone tried a variety of different Probiotics and found this to be true?  I also don't know the amount (the variety of strains & amount of live cultures completely differ) Some are too expensive too. What are the brands you recommend & why? Do you really feel a difference?

Edited February 28, 2017 by Blahblah

[Blahblah]

And here is the link to related studies:

http://www.drperlmutter.com/learn/studies/

[melissaw72]

2 hours ago, Blahblah said:

I just bought some Probiotics to try (Garden of Life brand - Mood +) It says 50 Billion live cultures & 16 different strains (for refrigeration). This was formulated by a MD Neurologist & nutritionist. I was overwhelmed with options (on Amazon) and decided on this one first because of the "Mood health"

I have been reading more research that indicates that the state of your Gut & it's bacteria not only affects your digestion/nutritional absorption, but also directly influences your brain. The lack of good bacteria (along with a large variety of strains) may also be linked to depression, stress, mood disorders and cognitive decline.

Has anyone tried a variety of different Probiotics and found this to be true?  I also don't know the amount (the variety of strains & amount of live cultures completely differ) Some are too expensive too. What are the brands you recommend & why? Do you really feel a difference?

I totally agree with you.  I also take probiotics, 25 Billion live cultures, etc,  ... the more strains the better ... these are shelf-stable, so they don't need to be refrigerated and I have been taking them for about 2 months.  I haven't noticed a change, but if I stopped taking them maybe I would realize that they were, in fact, making a difference (or not).  It is so much cheaper to buy probiotics on-line than in a store. IMO.

I haven't tried a variety ... only 2 kinds ... one was a CVS brand that had 2 Billion live strains.  That was just to start until I found a better one (my mom had extras of these and said I could have them).

After those were gone, I bought another kind called Complete prebiotic and probiotic 25 Billion, live and shelf-stable cultures, made by Olympian Labs, INC. ... from Amazon, and they were about a 1/3 of the CVS price, with 2 more pills in the box.  I like that they are shelf-stable and don't rely on refrigeration.

I can't tell if it affects my mind or not though, tbh.  I just hope for the best an take one capsule every day.

[CrazyRedhead]

I don't take probiotics myself, although I probably should.....

However, I did find an interesting article on why probiotics are important, and the article also reviews the top-rated brands of probiotics, although I didn't look up prices on any of these:

https://smarter-reviews.com/lp/sr-probiotics?ch=paid&pl=aws&ca=SR-Probiotics-broad&gclid=CLH3-Kb-stICFdiNswodVdkAuQ

Edited February 28, 2017 by CrazyRedhead

[Blahblah]

5 hours ago, CrazyRedhead said:

I don't take Probiotics myself, although I probably should.....

However, I did find an interesting article on why probiotics are important, and the article also reviews the top-rated brands of probiotics, although I didn't look up prices on any of these:

https://smarter-reviews.com/lp/sr-probiotics?ch=paid&pl=aws&ca=SR-Probiotics-broad&gclid=CLH3-Kb-stICFdiNswodVdkAuQ

Interesting.. I just scanned through this quickly. But i found the myths interesting such as " Another Myth is that Yogurt is the best probiotic. Yogurt does contain probiotics, especially Greek yogurt. However, you would have to eat roughly 50 Greek yogurts a day to get the daily recommended amount of probiotics. This can become extremely costly, plus a lot of yogurts contain hidden sugars and syrups."

50 Yogurts a Day!!! Crazy. Here i was eating 1 plain yogurt a day, thinking I'm good...

Well, I will report back to see how things go. I've been having some digestive issues as well, so maybe it will indeed help.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Blahblah

[Lone Sheep]

After a little research back in the summer, I started taking a probiotic supplement to see if it would help with my MI symptoms. At first I thought it might be having an effect (tough to be sure as other changes were happening at the time), but I never was quite sure and any modest improvement has petered out since.

Here's the best article I read about the subject. Very comprehensive IMO: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2016/03/01/10-best-probiotics-for-depression-anxiety-gut-brain-axis-modification/

It lead me to try taking this supplement: https://www.amazon.com/PRO-15-Recommended-Probiotic-Supplement-Technology/dp/B00JEKYNZA/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1469410617&sr=8-1&keywords=Hyperbiotics+PRO-15

Maybe someone else would have better results than I have. At least it didn't have any side effects.

[Blahblah]

On 2/28/2017 at 10:26 PM, Lone Sheep said:

After a little research back in the summer, I started taking a probiotic supplement to see if it would help with my MI symptoms. At first I thought it might be having an effect (tough to be sure as other changes were happening at the time), but I never was quite sure and any modest improvement has petered out since.

Here's the best article I read about the subject. Very comprehensive IMO: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2016/03/01/10-best-probiotics-for-depression-anxiety-gut-brain-axis-modification/

It lead me to try taking this supplement: https://www.amazon.com/PRO-15-Recommended-Probiotic-Supplement-Technology/dp/B00JEKYNZA/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1469410617&sr=8-1&keywords=Hyperbiotics+PRO-15

Maybe someone else would have better results than I have. At least it didn't have any side effects.

Will check these out! thanks.

I'm also wondering whether 2 cups of coffee in the morning can cancel out any of the good effects of Probiotics? Maybe this is a question for more of a nutritional-type health board....but just curious if the 2 coffees will mess up the benefits?

[melissaw72]

2 hours ago, Blahblah said:

I'm also wondering whether 2 cups of coffee in the morning can cancel out any of the good effects of Probiotics? Maybe this is a question for more of a nutritional-type health board....but just curious if the 2 coffees will mess up the benefits?

I was interested in the answer to this so I googled "can coffee in the morning cancel out good effects of probiotics"

There are articles I found but they didn't seem helpful (although the 2nd link below seemed to have more info than the other).

 

But here are a couple if you want to check them out:

https://www.canadianpharmacyking.com/KingsBlog/index.php/2016/08/Is-Your-Morning-Coffee-Killing-Your-Probiotics/

----------------

http://www.optibacprobiotics.co.uk/blog/2013/01/coffee-and-probiotics-the-low-down

Scroll down to:

Quote

Can I take my Probiotics with Coffee?

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by melissaw72

[Flash]

I started a probiotic after being on antibiotics for many, many years. The first one was a 125 billion cultures one I got at GNC. Since then, I've been ordering online. My current one is Prescript-Assist. I did start the probiotic a few months before I emerged from a long depressive episode, and stopped taking it after I became symptomatic again. I don't think it's something that helps MI. Certainly not by itself, anyway.

I think there a number of things you can do that work synergistically, but they may be the effect rather than the cause. When things go kaflooey on me, taking my vitamin D, probiotic, and such just go out the window. And while I eat pretty well when I'm symptomatic, I eat extraordinarily well when I'm not. And I exercise. And I take all my meds, vitamins, and whatnot. My personal experience is that you need the right meds to right the ship. And that, unfortunately, can take quite some time. The med-go-round sucks donkey dicks.

AFAIK, the two things that you might want to supplement with (besides a pre/probiotic, if it makes sense for you) are vitamin D and zinc. A multivitamin might help if you're malnourished like me, as could calcium and magnesium. It really depends on how badly you treat your body. I'm a world-class champion at destroying mine, so I'm a special case. But if your diet goes to shift for a long time, you may need an intervention. And I know many folks who eat like crap in depressed states. Eating nothing but goldfish crackers and string cheese is not a good idea. It's certainly not going to help, in any case.

The best thing you can do is to cook for yourself, even incredibly simple stuff. But I certainly understand how that's not always a viable option. I like to bake a sweet potato and a salmon fillet in the oven, and sauté a veggie on the stove, or steam it. And then some kind of salad, or maybe a half avocado with lemon juice and cracked black pepper. Get it from the deli section if you're not up for the task.

But it's really easy. You turn your oven to 400° F (make sure it's a true 400°, as many ovens are off by 50 or even 75°). Put the sweet potato (make sure it's sitting on aluminum foil or in a Pyrex dish, otherwise you will have a big mess on your hands). Add cinnamon and/or nutmeg to it, along with butter and maybe a little salt when you serve it. Put the timer on for 48-50 minutes, and then put the salmon fillet next to it for the last 10-12 minutes. You can put a rub on it, if you like, but it's quite delucious with just a squeeze of lemon and a little salt. Maybe some freshly cracked pepper. Slice up a zuchinni or yellow summer squash, and sauté it in butter. Sprinkle it with some ground Rosemary or thyme, and a little salt. Or steam-nuke broccoli or asparagus in the microwave, and put a little butter and salt on afterwards. They have amazing salads at the deli sections of many grocery stores these days. Pick whatever suits you. A meal like this takes at most 10 minutes of your time. The rest is just waiting.

I do understand how that's not a realistic possibility when you're super depressed, however. Sometimes I can't eat anything, because it's too much effort to even get out of bed. And even heating up a can of soup in the microwave is too hard. I get it, trust me. I haven't cooked in I don't even know how long. Even the simplest stuff is just too much. I rely on delivery, and it totally screws up my finances. And I drink like a fish, making it even worse. It's the only thing that gets me through the day, unfortunately. I want to stop. I really do. I just can't. I'm going to ask for anabuse at my next pdoc appointment, because I've exhausted all the other options. I'm sure it will suck donkey dicks, but I don't know what else to do. 

I'm sure there was a point to all this, but I have no idea what it is now. Take care!

[Blahblah]

12 hours ago, Flash said:

I started a probiotic after being on antibiotics for many, many years. The first one was a 125 billion cultures one I got at GNC. Since then, I've been ordering online. My current one is Prescript-Assist. I did start the probiotic a few months before I emerged from a long depressive episode, and stopped taking it after I became symptomatic again. I don't think it's something that helps MI. Certainly not by itself, anyway.

I think there a number of things you can do that work synergistically, but they may be the effect rather than the cause. When things go kaflooey on me, taking my vitamin D, probiotic, and such just go out the window. And while I eat pretty well when I'm symptomatic, I eat extraordinarily well when I'm not. And I exercise. And I take all my meds, vitamins, and whatnot. My personal experience is that you need the right meds to right the ship. And that, unfortunately, can take quite some time. The med-go-round sucks donkey dicks.

AFAIK, the two things that you might want to supplement with (besides a pre/probiotic, if it makes sense for you) are vitamin D and zinc. A multivitamin might help if you're malnourished like me, as could calcium and magnesium. It really depends on how badly you treat your body. I'm a world-class champion at destroying mine, so I'm a special case.

Thank you for the long reply! The Probiotics may not work noticeably, but if they can work synergistically with all of the other "good things" I'm doing, that would be nice! I'm am still trying to find the right med combo. I know I can't expect the meds to pull 100% but it is really tough when they are doing zilch for certain chronic, resistant symptoms like anhedonia, which is a bear to find effective treatment.

I am someone who never falters when it comes to diet (and exercise for that matter) having dealt with this disease for 20+ years. I force myself (with exercise) yet I'm well aware that the most important things to maintain sanity are: sleep hygiene, eating healthy, and regular exercise. I'm almost obsessive when it comes to healthy eating. For awhile, I was taking boat loads of supplements (but that was too high maintenance to continue)...I avoid sugar, fats, junk food and eat very balanced meals (lots of fruit, veggies, clean proteins). I usually do not have major problems with appetite during severe episodes (I don't know if this is typical or atypical with major depression?) It is more my sleep & energy that get mucked up.

Interesting what you mention about Vitamin D & Zinc. I just found that despite taking mega-dose vitamin D ampules for the last 4 months, I am still deficient, So I will see a doctor to up my continuing dosage. I wasn't aware that Zinc did much - yet I've heard that Magnesium/Calcium are huge factors in mental illness. As well as B vitamins (esp if you drink alot of alcohol) I take a robust multivitamin everyday.

I love your recipes :-) I have been craving sweet potatoes lately with cinnamon. Unfortunately, my apartment does not have an oven (bizarre I know) I do have a stove and microwave so usually my meals consist mainly of stir-fried vegetables with some noodles & chicken or something. I do order fish if we go out to eat, a couple times per week.

Also, Good luck with the antabuse. I also used to really enjoy alcohol regularly (quite a bit) now my tolerance is shot (due to meds & age) I get horrific migraines/hangover the next day, after like 2 glasses wine, so that's one less thing to worry about! I notice you are on Cymbalta - I just remembered when I was on Cymbalta, it increased my cravings for alcohol. I don't know if it was a random fluke....yet I was on Cymbalta for 2 years (and drinking much, much more heavily at that time). I really think that it increased my tolerance to alcohol because I could drink like a fish & took longer to feel buzzed, it was like I had extra immunity to alcohol but I'm sure it was still destroying my system (something you might think about?) Wellbutrin does the opposite (reduces unhealthy cravings) Anyways, good luck.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Blahblah

[Blahblah]

13 hours ago, Flash said:

it totally screws up my finances. And I drink like a fish, making it even worse. It's the only thing that gets me through the day, unfortunately. I want to stop. I really do. I just can't. I'm going to ask for anabuse at my next pdoc appointment, because I've exhausted all the other options. I'm sure it will suck donkey dicks, but I don't know what else to do. 

I'm sure there was a point to all this, but I have no idea what it is now. Take care!

Sorry to veer off topic on this post, but I wonder if you ever made a connection to the Cymbalta & increased alcohol abuse? Maybe the Cymbalta + alcohol cravings was not a fluke for me. i just googled & found a ton of similar experiences:

http://www.steadyhealth.com/topics/increased-alcohol-use-on-cymbalta?page=4

"i had another depressive episode my sophomore year and had to leave school and they upped my dose to 60 mg-again, no problem, but it had no effect on my depression so it was upped to 90 this past year when another episode hit.  since i’ve been on it i have had the same reaction as all of you had–it takes a LOT longer to feel the effect of the alcohol and i can drink a LOT more…were talking anywhere from 8-13 drinks in a night which is usually 6-8 hours.  there was a period where literally everytime i went out, i blacked out and remembered absolutely nothing.  this first started when i was put on 90 mg"

"I was so happy with the results of the Cymbalta with my depression.  I have been treated 3 times over the past 20 years and this has proven to be the best in terms of feeling better, back to my old self, much more energy etc,  My insurance has not agreed to cover it yet so I have been given many samples of it by my physician. But I too have noticed “the I can’t stop once I start drinking syndrome”.  I blacked out twice in the past month, embarrassing myself and my husband at a business dinner in Hawaii, then last Sunday, waking up with the biggest bruise on my bottom I ever saw and it’s very painful.  I have no idea what happened, it was at home and don’t want to ask."

"My story is a carbon copy of many here. The first few weeks of taking this drug I constantly wanted to go out and found my appetite for alcohol relentless, sometimes drinking an entire bottle of wine AFTER a night out when I got home. This has wrecked things with a girl I was briefly seeing, and I've wanted to fight with good friends or anyone unlucky enough to be in my vacinity. I black out regularly, I feel the desire to drink every day. I didn't even drink much previously. I thought I was going mad, like others have commented on this thread... I've never been someone who seeks violence or acts abusively... it's time to stop taking this drug AND alcohol... I just wish there was more publicity of this side effect."

Edited March 4, 2017 by Blahblah

[mcjimjam]

Another thing that helps the gut bacteria is a high fibre diet. Fibre feeds the bacteria, a prebiotic. Lots of fruit and especially veg, maybe some fibre supplements too.

I haven't really noticed MH improvement from pro or prebiotic supplements, unfortunetely. 

[melissaw72]

On 2/28/2017 at 7:16 AM, melissaw72 said:

Complete prebiotic and probiotic 25 Billion, live and shelf-stable cultures, made by Olympian Labs, INC. ... from Amazon

I was taking these probiotics for about 3 months, and then stopped them to see if it would make a difference taking them or not.  I actually do better off of them than on.  Idk why though.  I'll probably start another kind awhile later, but I wondered why I do better without them, because probiotics are supposed to be good for you.

 

10 hours ago, mcjimjam said:

Another thing that helps the gut bacteria is a high fibre diet. Fibre feeds the bacteria, a prebiotic. Lots of fruit and especially veg, maybe some fibre supplements too.

I haven't really noticed MH improvement from pro or prebiotic supplements, unfortunetely. 

Same with me ... I also didn't feel any MI improvement when taking them after 3 or so months.

[notloki]

Like all supplements they are not regulated by the FDA so you don't know for sure what you are getting.

[Flash]

6 minutes ago, notloki said:

Like all supplements they are not regulated by the FDA so you don't know for sure what you are getting.

While it's largely true that you don't know what you're getting, there are labs that test these things. Look for the USP symbol, for instance. It's not entirely true that supplements are not regulated by the FDA. The 1994 DSHEA Act covers supplements, but it was a huge giveaway to the supplement manufacturers. But they cannot claim to cure any disease, and harmful substances can be removed from the market. But they can go on the market without testing, unlike pharmaceuticals. And they can claim claim things like "supports _________ health" without much evidence.

[Blahblah]

13 minutes ago, Flash said:

While it's largely true that you don't know what you're getting, there are labs that test these things. Look for the USP symbol, for instance. It's not entirely true that supplements are not regulated by the FDA. The 1994 DSHEA Act covers supplements, but it was a huge giveaway to the supplement manufacturers. But they cannot claim to cure any disease, and harmful substances can be removed from the market. But they can go on the market without testing, unlike pharmaceuticals. And they can claim claim things like "supports _________ health" without much evidence.

Yeah this is a drag when it comes to supplements. I have been taking the probiotics for almost 3 months now and do not notice a bit difference in mood, digestion or BM's either) There are so many studies & books out now that tote how great probiotics are for your health. They are all expensive too. I guess I'll just stick with Omega 3's...I just hope that I have a potent/legitimate brand of those!

Edited April 25, 2017 by Blahblah

[Flash]

1 minute ago, Blahblah said:

Yeah this is a drag when it comes to supplements. I have been taking the probiotics for almost 3 months now and do not notice a bit difference in mood (or my digestion either) There are so many studies & books out now that tote how great probiotics are for your health. They are all expensive too. I guess I'll just stick with Omega 3's...I just hope that I have a potent/legitimate brand of those!

I've never noticed anything, either. I only take them because of 18 years of being on daily antibiotics. I figure my gut flora have been severely compromised. And since gut health has been shown to affect many different aspects of health, I'll continue to take the pro/prebiotics for the time being.

Omega-3 supplements have not been shown to be useful for combatting heart disease, although eating fish has. However, omega-3 supplements might be more promising when it comes to mental health. You might try krill oil rather than fish oil. Some people like it better. 

[Blahblah]

3 minutes ago, Flash said:

I've never noticed anything, either. I only take them because of 18 years of being on daily antibiotics. I figure my gut flora have been severely compromised. And since gut health has been shown to affect many different aspects of health, I'll continue to take the pro/prebiotics for the time being.

Omega-3 supplements have not been shown to be useful for combatting heart disease, although eating fish has. However, omega-3 supplements might be more promising when it comes to mental health. You might try krill oil rather than fish oil. Some people like it better. 

I wanted to try & reestablish/boost my gut flora and I had hopes that it would subtly effect my mood, also help speed up digestion/bloating etc. hasn't done any of this really...Perhaps my gut flora is fine to begin with!

I take Omega 3s that have a natural coconut flavor (I hate the fish taste/burping thing) I have been taking these for 9 months consistently. My physical energy level has definitely improved from this (also after increasing my vitamin D levels/dosage) I might try another Omega brand for a bit to see if that makes more of a difference. I currently take 2 Softgels (2,400 mg total per day) Not sure what the recommendation for mood issues/depression is, perhaps the dosage is higher but dunno if higher dose is safe?

[notloki]

I have found real benefits from supplementing gut bacteria if I have a specific reason. Like I took a broad spectrum antibiotic that killed a lot of gut bacteria or I had a stomach flu which messed up my gut bacteria. Probiotic Acidophilus, a common gut bacteria, taken in high enough concentrations, will fix this for me.  

[Flash]

2 minutes ago, Blahblah said:

I wanted to try & reestablish/boost my gut flora and I had hopes that it would subtly effect my mood, also help speed up digestion/bloating etc. hasn't done any of this really...Perhaps my gut flora is fine to begin with!

I take Omega 3s that have a natural coconut flavor (I hate the fish taste/burping thing) I have been taking these for 9 months consistently. My physical energy level has definitely improved from this (also after increasing my vitamin D levels/dosage) I might try another Omega brand for a bit to see if that makes more of a difference. I currently take 2 Softgels (2,400 mg total per day) Not sure what the recommendation for mood issues/depression is, perhaps the dosage is higher but dunno if higher dose is safe?

Because of the huge amount of omega-6 fatty acids in the typical diet, I doubt a modest increase in your omega-3 supplementation would be problematic. I don't know what the recommended doses are, however, although I'm not sure how useful those figures are.