Bram Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) ,./ Edited July 3, 2017 by Bram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hi there, and welcome. Can you please summarize what your question is? Or what exact problem you're having with the medication? Your post is a bit long. I skimmed most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeAChillPill Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 So have you actually started the taper yet? If you've already started it, is it going okay or is it horrific? I've never been physically dependent on anything aside form my eating problem (over-eating) but I brought that upon myself it seems. I understand that you feel like you should have never been prescribed this drug for physical symptoms and I agree but I have a friend who was prescribed valium for a neck injury and we're in the US. I guess some Dr's just aren't careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Didn't you post the same story a couple of years ago under the name of Breen among others? Did you take any of the advice you got then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianOCD Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) You're not alone in that tapering off Benzos is so difficult. I've learned from experience and I don't stay on benzos for more than 2-4 weeks before trying to get off...I'll go longer if I must, but typically my mood and anxiety is improved enough in this time frame. Every time I got on Ativan I think about the fact I'm gonna have to come off at some point as it becomes tiresome... I find it's best only for the worst anxiety episodes, panic. In fact i'm tapering off Ativan right now. Best advice I can give is start exercising like crazy, this will help a lot. Avoid Caffeine and yady yada. But Exercise, especially if you haven't been doing it much, can replace the ativan on some level. Help with the anxiety. Have a plan for your sleeping too as that will likely be disrupted on some level. It's odd that Seroquel, for me anyways, seems to have less side effects than the Ativan does...Anyone else experience that? They're both numbing, and sedating, but I always feel more side effects on Ativan or other benzos. Edited July 2, 2017 by BrianOCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramm Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Okay it's me (Bram). Perhaps I unregistered a bit too quickly, and maybe I shouldn't have deleted my first post that quickly. On the other hand, this is nothing to be proud of. I'm not going to retype the original post. Basically, I got screwed by a psychiatrist who prescribed me Zoloft over a decade ago. He was also the one who initiated that clonazepam prescription (muscle relaxant), repeated by the GP. I just saw him during a rough patch in my life, depression because of circumstances not an 'illness'. That Zoloft necessitated temazepam for sleep. And I did post under 'Breen' years ago. Anyway, the short version is that my GP managed to get me on lorazepam for tapering. It ended in a disaster. I had to go through a whole 'lorazepam withdrawal'. I did read my medical files in 2016. No idea what was in there ! Basically every line in those files reads as 'is it mental, or isn't it ?' not to mention the whole wait and see attitude. My physical health problems were never taken seriously. At this point, I would describe my health as 'what remains after you leave years of health problems untreated, plus the lorazepam withdrawal'. An example would be extreme muscle wasting. The clonazepam hasn't exactly been kind either. But we're not talking about discomfort or suffering, basically I'm at the point where the clonazepam keeps me functioning (albeit very low) (sleep/energy). Not a sleeping or calming pill. it's not 'just the benzo', and I'm not 'fine'. The GP actually lied to me, formal medical errors were made. You could not get this in the USA because of medical liability. Here it's illegal too, but I have no recourse ! (GP is the gapetkeeper, cannot be bypassed) In a nutshell: the knowledge of the GP was limited to 'prescribing the smallest dose for the shortest amount of time'. (!) Yet he wanted to manage a taper. Psychiatrists are not an option, you go to a psychiatrist for a mental condition and to get on pills, not off. Addiction doctors ? All about addiction. In the clinic they think they can talk you through it in three weeks ... There is absolutely nothing benzo related in this country (Europe). The last real taper was the lorazepam, and a few short attempts on diazepam. Diazepam won't do. 'functioning' is actually horrific. And at this point I have to taper ? The whole idea is to taper off cautiously while you continue to live normally. I would feel even a tiny cut. Ordinarily I would have to get my health back firs, since a taper is so rough. I guess I'm technically at the point where one would say 'it's not an illness' (|'by the book') more the harm done by action and inaction of doctors. Clonazepam tapers are known to last long. A psychiatric diagnosis carries a huge stigma. At least here, when you have to bypass the GP and he 'doesn't see anything'. Well, I'm not sure if there is a point to this post ... made it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Quick note: I've never heard of clonazepam being called a muscle relaxant. It's a benzo used for anxiety as far as I know. I've been on it for years. It doesn't help me sleep at all, either. Just makes me care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I've heard of it used as a muscle relaxer before, not sure it's proven to work tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) All benzos have muscle relaxing properties, some stronger than others. Benzodiazepines are well known for their strong muscle-relaxing properties and can be useful in the treatment of muscle spasms,[21]:577–578 Edited July 10, 2017 by notloki add citation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Quote Benzodiazepines enhance the effect of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) at the GABAA receptor, resulting in sedative, hypnotic (sleep-inducing), anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), anticonvulsant, and muscle relaxant properties. High doses of many shorter-acting benzodiazepines may also cause anterograde amnesia and dissociation.[4] These properties make benzodiazepines useful in treating anxiety, insomnia, agitation, seizures, muscle spasms, alcohol withdrawal and as a premedication for medical or dental procedures.[5] Benzodiazepines are categorized as either short-, intermediate-, or long-acting. Short- and intermediate-acting benzodiazepines are preferred for the treatment of insomnia; longer-acting benzodiazepines are recommended for the treatment of anxiety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I stand corrected, @notloki. Thanks for clearing that up. 5 hours ago, Bramm said: 'functioning' is actually horrific. Is this due to the muscular atrophy? Just trying to pin down what your symptoms are. When you try to go off the clonazepam, what do you experience? Maybe there is a way to treat those symptoms in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Valium and Ativan are used the most for muscle issues. Klonopin would work, too. It tends to be mostly used as an anticonvulsant or anti anxiety agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Also there are meds like flexaril specific to muscle relaxation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Flexzril does not relax muscles directly. it sedates the person rather than than directly relaxes the muscles. Cyclobenzaprine has been found to be not inferior to tizanidine, orphenadrine, and carisoprodol in the treatment of acute lower back pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 That's why I said "meds like flexaril" simply saying that there are options besides benzos. Also soma has more addiction risk as its scheduled ...personally I've seen it work well and honestly it was just the first one on my mind lol. Notloki's suggestions are definetly valid as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramm Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam it's still quite limited. 'Is this due to the muscular atrophy? Just trying to pin down what your symptoms are. When you try to go off the clonazepam, what do you experience? Maybe there is a way to treat those symptoms in particular?' Partly. Everything would be so different if i had an extra 10 kg of muscle ... There are also some things I find just too embarassing, and that likely cannot be treated with pills for 'symptoms' without causing different problems that would also obstruct a taper/withdrawal ! I guess something could still be done, but I would expect (even if I were in a different healthcare system) 'why would that be necessary ?' 'just taper the clonazepam' unless I would get very, very lucky. It has been a long time since I was 'fine'. I'm basically at the stage where everything affects everything. And in a few years I'll be 50 years old ... I'm getting old, the wear and tear is showing. I don't even need clonazepam as a muscle relaxant, this is far beyond the therapeutic effects ! It may act directly on GABA, but it also does so much more ... And it is very different from lorazepam and diazepam. Almost a different class of drug. Edited July 11, 2017 by Bramm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bramm said: There are also some things I find just too embarassing, and that likely cannot be treated with pills for 'symptoms' without causing different problems that would also obstruct a taper/withdrawal ! --- I don't even need clonazepam as a muscle relaxant, this is far beyond the therapeutic effects ! It may act directly on GABA, but it also does so much more ... And it is very different from lorazepam and diazepam. Almost a different class of drug. 1. That sucks. I'm sorry you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place with this. 2. Clonazepam has never relaxed my muscles. And yes, v. different from lorazepam. My mom takes that and has given me a pill here or there for anxiety, and it works SO much better than the clonazepam I'm usually on. It actually helps me sleep, makes me less nervous. Maybe I've just been on clonazepam too long. It's been like 6 years. I started at 0.5mg twice/day, am now at 2mg twice/day. Not sure when each increase happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramm Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 In my experience with benzos (I tried switching to others) I have noticed that clonazepam seems to have both a kind of 'dampening' effect, and an 'energizing/stimulating' effect. Maybe 'serotonergic' ? Diazepam and lorazepam felt clearly GABAergic. Does this seem familiar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramm Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 A bit of a aside note, would anyone know of a drug that can suppress or dampen disturbing and intense dreams ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Bramm said: A bit of a aside note, would anyone know of a drug that can suppress or dampen disturbing and intense dreams ? I'd start a new thread for this question, Bramm. You're much more likely to get more input. Anyway, when I was like 15 and having terrible nightmares, my shrink put me on Wellbutrin. I stopped having nightmares, but I started hallucinating and had to come off it. There's a good shot it'll help with nightmares if you don't get nasty side effects like I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Do a search for prazosin, several take it here for nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramm Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/8/2017 at 10:37 AM, heilmania said: I'd start a new thread for this question, Bramm. You're much more likely to get more input. Anyway, when I was like 15 and having terrible nightmares, my shrink put me on Wellbutrin. I stopped having nightmares, but I started hallucinating and had to come off it. There's a good shot it'll help with nightmares if you don't get nasty side effects like I did. That's interesting because Wellbutrin caused intense vivid dreams in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heilmania Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just now, jt07 said: That's interesting because Wellbutrin caused intense vivid dreams in me. Weird! Who knows, everything affects everyone differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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