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when all the boxes meld into one

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i didn't know where to write, because the boxes seem so discrete (they aren't, really)

i am a member here known by other name. i have let some know who i am. if you want to know pm me. it's safer this way.

today i did  ;) as it got too much to bear. i'd been heading that way for a while. i went to chat today to divert myself. i deliberated on my new handle and vented privately and saw some journal entries i made about things that were said and moments that hurt deeply but somehow shoved into a hole somewhere to fester..

i can't hold it anymore.

i don't know if i am the only one who is MI in my relationship sometimes. there has been enough craziness in my partner's life that i don't know what's mine and what's not mine. boundaries aren't clear.

i am not going to reveal my gender or the gender of my partner. i am going to try and limit details. i'm not wanting to be evasive - i have to be. it may not work. frankly, if it doesn't work, and shit hits all manner of fan then i will have a clear path to somewhere else. for now, it's not so clear.

becuase i still love.  because partner has been hurt a lot in life. i did some of that - cheated before marriage. well. that's not that much, considering what else happened,  since a young age. partner says 'why me' sometimes for all the shit that's happened, and part of me just wants to cry and hug, and make safety and comfort and peace; the other part of me wants to yell that it's a cycle of abuse, that once a person is convinced that they don't deserve better, and that they are awful person, they can unconsciously manifest that in their life again and again. the martyr will behave as if they are victim, yet constantly go back for more - it reinforces their view of the world.

at this point, i'm the martyr. i am the depressed person who doesn't change. who only spreads sad things talking all the time about bad things, complaining to doctors but never changing. don't always do things around the house. i don't even do them when asked to. sometimes i do. this makes my partner believe that i CAN do these things, but choose not to. my partner does not understand the episodic nature of these symptoms. if i clean up after supper one night, and then don't do it the next night, i am simply doing whatever i choose to.

there are a lot of things i have written down - things that are said to me, situations that happened, feelings i have. i don't intend to rehash old wounds here, except i find that things said to me stay with me. they get incorporated, and sometimes even if my partner says something else that contradicts those statements, i hold onto them.

i don't know anymore.

what is abusive. what isn't. at what point am i just abusing myself, with old words that  don't mean what they used to? how do i start to say 'this hurts' when sometimes, i don't know that it hurts - when i am depressed i agree with negative statements about myself - or set boundaries, when i have let my entire self be completely invisible for so long? maybe i never had a self. pdoc talks about this unstable self. how do i begin to get one, when i hear all these statements about how rotten i am behaving, how much i ignore my partner, how little i seem to care?

i feel like i don't know how to be, anymore, if ever, and don't know whether i should stay in this while i sort myself out. they say don't make any major decisions when ill. but i've been dealing with this episode since 2003. at this point, i am starting to wonder whether what needs to change isn't simply medication or habit. those things will be more difficult to change, when an SO just doesn't believe it's medical, and criticizes every day the things that are wrong.

i haven't sorted out a solid dx. i probably am not medicated correctly. i may be OVER medicated, if what i am dealing with is not my own inner fluctuations, but an unstable, threatening emotional environment.

FECK.  :embarassed:

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Wow. That hurt to read. Real sense of desperation in your words there friend. I have been there myself. Not the dx'd depression part. But the don't have a solid sense of self, so it's fucking up your relationships part. My husband even left me for a time, I had gotten so bad.

I don't know what to tell you specifically to help you, but I can tell you what helped me. When he left, I just freaked out. My whole sense of self was wrapped up in being Marines' wife. Then the boy's mom. Before that it was Mom and Dad's daughter. About a week after he left, I realized I had to figure out how to live by myself, with myself. Without freaking out. So I started on my current path to self-discovery. So far I have changed my outer image drastically. I'm no longer the pretty blonde with the long hair. I have changed the clothes I wear, and the books I read. I have searched out new people to talk to throughout my day. I rearranged the furniture and actually added a few decorations I like. I take more time to take care of my personal needs. I even got a part-time job. A whole new world has opened up for me. I'm happy for the first time in my life.

Now, having said that. I still have the old anxieties that pop up all the time. But, since I'm well on my way to knowing who I am now, they aren't so debiletating(sp). And seeing all the effort that I'm putting into all this, and having meaningful conversations about it, hubby is back and happier than ever. He knows he just has to understand and give me space when I feel I need to be alone for the majority of the week. It's give and take. Compromise, compromise, compromise. But he is willing. That makes all the difference in the world. You gotta talk about it.

If past abuses have plagued both of you, please seek out therapy. Individually. Really you can only be a good partner if you've resolved to some extent your past. Sounds like both of ya'll could use a good dose of healing to be good to each other. And try and cut each other some slack. It goes a long way.

It can get better. Hang in there, seek out help, be patient.

Best wishes, PM me if you wish.


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alert: By no means am I a relationship expert!

In fact, this is the first time I have ever found myself in an actual mature, stable, healthy relationship.  WTF? Yeah.  And a lot of the time, I'm still wandering around asking, "Is this right?"

Relationships are hard no matter what.  And I think they are harder if you add in any MI variant.  Whether that's both parties or just one of you.  In this situation, it sounds like it is only one of you that is MI.  If that is the case, from my own personal experience alone I have found that it takes a very special NT to understand what someone with whatever flavour of MI-ness lives with and to be fully committed to whatever may come up because our diseases are unpredictable.

Skipping back to my previous partner, she just didn't "get it."  No matter how hard I tried to explain it to her...ugh.  But we were so mismatched on so many other levels it wasn't even funny.  I just started dating her in manic desperation so...uh, yeah.  After finally extricating myself from that situation...

I met my current partner.  Like night and day.  Now, this partner did receive a dx of GAD and go around with Effexor but now she is off meds.  But apart from that, different type of human.  More insightful, more...well, she just "gets it."

So after much length (above) my sort of, general point is you really need someone who is understanding and supportive.

Now, for the abuse.  This is tough.  I don't want to be bleak but abuse doesn't just simply "go away."  Especially if it's something that's been going on for an extended period of time.  And that can be abuse in a variety of forms: physical, emotional, verbal...  I used to have problems when my therapist said I was abused by my parents because they never hit us as kids.  Wrong.  The abuse just came in a different form.

Sometimes, things can be corrected with therapy and you can work to curb and stop the abusive behaviour; sometimes you can't.  And if you can't, then you need to do whatever you can to ensure your emotional/physical etc... health and safety are no longer at risk.  And if that means ultimately leaving, then that's it.

It's like stopping the cycle.  Sometimes the only way to do it is to be that drastic.

Okay, this has gotten heavy.  I'll stop now.  I hope this hasn't been offensive in any way.


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heh it was already heavy groovyone, no worries. *I* wasn't offended in the least. I appreciate all of these responses.

I feel like I need to write more. I feel very vulnerable doing this. I realize how much I don't keep myself anonymous, just from the sheer fact of trying to conceal myself here. Well. it's more than personal details that could be traced - one's voice can be unique enough as to be traced. Turns of phrase. References. Moments of interaction. The sheer task of trying to evade someone's monitoring is enormous, especially emotionally.

I don't even feel safe posting about current details right now. what the issues are. What went on today.

So I feel perhaps something of the past will shadow the present, and give me something to process out loud. In the meantime as well, I plan to privately work out some of it.

Some of the things I have heard (paraphrased)

  • messages that I make people uncomfortable and not want to be around me
  • I pride myself on being crazy
  • you think you're so special, you aren't fucking special at all, you are like all the other lazy people who don't htink they should have to work for what it is they want in life
  • you can write on the computer to your crazy friends but you can't write the other stuff (I had to do)?
  • controlling, manipulative
  • self-centred
  • I cause partner to feel inadequate, unwanted
  • I don't want change
  • NO you are not ignoring you are placing it under a microscope

the day before my birthday

'Grow up or get out,'

* said

and I wept inside

like a child

maybe I should not do this hashing out stuff. maybe since 2002 people have been telling me, in a variety of ways, that I shouldn't be here (in the relationship).

It's so unstable I feel threatened and horrible. I do feel trapped, although I told pdoc I want to leave (to which he responded that's good, if I felt I can't leave, that is when I would be extremely dependent).

I want peace, and here is not peaceful.

I promise, I will make change. I don't want y'all to think I am just whining and won't do something. This is a process and I am trying to move along without being in danger from myself. Part of it right now is I have to put some of it 'out there' - break silence, and begin to understand what's really going on. Surrender to the truth.

~the hanged one

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I promise, I will make change

This is so easily said. But you go on to say you realize it is a process. Good. I love your sig line, about getting what you are looking for. I really needed to see that today.

So in return, I will follow your journey and offer what I can.

But be careful. Change is hard. Change hurts. Change is hard to stay put "into". Change is a bitch.

But if it is something you really want? Then it's the easier thing you'll ever do in your life.


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I don't even feel safe posting about current details right now. what the issues are. What went on today.
I can relate to that feeling of vulnerability that is so there in your words. I had somethings to share more privately that I sent to you in a PM.

I was in an abusive relationship that almost ended with me and my kids dead, it was very horrible and I was hugely confused for a long time, BEFORE, and after the actual incident where we were held at knifepoint and almost killed. There were many red flags I ignored along the way.

Not suggesting your situation is like mine was, but I never in a million years would have dreamed he would have gotten violent--at all, much less to that degree, but it was a progression....looking back, and, of course, it started with words.

Best of luck to you.


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Keep working in the direction you need to go, and keep working on yourself, and whatever it is that you need to do, the universe will open up to you, and it will happen.  But first and foremost, always stay safe, and know where the safe places are. Don't take in his/her reality about you. Just keep working with your pdoc, and those who love you. Create the truth for yourself, as you see/feel it, and filter it through your pdoc and good friends. It will grow healthier as you feel better about yourself. Hope I am not being preachy its just that your posts touched me. 

You will be in my thoughts.


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Guest Guest_groovyone_*

I feel like I need to write more. I feel very vulnerable doing this.

I don't even feel safe posting about current details right now. what the issues are. What went on today.

Go slowly.

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when partner is upset and angry, saying things that I consider nasty toward me, I am told I am supposed to go give a hug. I don't get this. Actually no. I get it, but it seems backward and it scares me, and I seem to respond by shutting down not providing affection.

anyway, it's sort of a moot point.

eventually, it came to separation. it's been said and now it is a matter of carrying it through. always a bigger task than saying it.

Today there has been intermittent hostility, that frankly scares me and sends me to unstable places like  ;)   urges and I am basically trying to think of giving in like letting the manipulations control me.

Came across this quote:

It's a commonplace in the psychiatric community that the spouse or partner of someone with BPD is usually the first to present clinically, worried about "going mad" themself.

hmm. not that I doubt I'm MI.

it's so fucked up.


just posting an update.


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I've got BPD and I know that I am hard to live with, but also how much pain I am in, so I am sorry that you are going through this, whichever side you happen to be on. Pm me if you need a confidential shoulder to cry on.

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when partner is upset and angry, saying things that I consider nasty toward me, I am told I am supposed to go give a hug. I don't get this. Actually no. I get it, but it seems backward and it scares me, and I seem to respond by shutting down not providing affection.


Hiya Zombi,

You know what this sounds like? You know those stories where a parent horribly abuses a child, but the child screams in horror at being taken away from the parent, because although they are abused, it's all they know, and that parent is all they have? Way back in the day, social workers used to reconsider their decision to remove the child since the child seemed so attached. Now, I think they get it.

So...giving a hug when treated poorly sounds to me like the same thing. Placating the abuser, asking, in effect, for more of the same treatment. Or like a child, just begging the abuser to stop. The thought of you doing that (hugging someone who, for whatever reason, is being mean to you) makes me want to cry.

Okay, I'll get out of my armchair-psychology-armchair now. But I agree w/ Groovyone--the comments seem abusive and hurtful, and seem to put all the problems on your shoulders.

Please keep posting, and working through this. Anyone accuses you of whining, I'll kick their ass for ya.


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just jumping in on the fly as it were

it takes 2 to tang0/tangle, right?

whatever labels folks use, and i could spout off a bout that...

she has issues too...all god's chillun got 'shoos!!!!

don't sweat dx's

no one's "fault" anyhoo

no one else has to be "wrong" for me to be ok with me

even if they don't like my behavior! even if ...lost my thought...

should have eaten more

i used to rant at/cry/feel hurt by what I thought was my ex

was really in hindsight much more about me and my abandonement shoos.

ex would retreat... scared...uneasy...i imagine ex did'nt know how to respond

ex could not reach out to comfort me

ex didn't want to get hurt? felt upset cause i was ranting?

i made it all about my ex

hard to learn to just be me in all my wonderful flavors

words are difficult sometime. so is everyone & how we feel and what we need.

or rather, i don't always get it...and neither do others

your soon to be ex may have all kinds of stuff; don't compare, comparisons are odious

by comparing i can, if my critical self thought is running it's number, always feel less than

i'm ok, yer ok

i intend not to hurt others or myself.

i intend to be gentle with me first of all.


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Lily, your post on an SI thread struck me hard.

Something I recall experience with:

Z, you didn't notice, therefore you didn't care.


you didn't remember to take out the garbage, therefore you can't be bothered, and must not care.

I think I am going through some of these things now, in a way, to remind myself that there are real reasons I need to leave. I am currently feeling the draw back in. Feeling like there is no reason for me to leave. Feeling like there are more reasons to stay (however nebulous, regret-filled, or fear-based those reasons are)

At the same time as I hear a lot of noise about how bringing all this stuff up is, in a way, throwing it back into the air, reliving pain, making things worse than they have to be.

I hear what you are saying Luli about to heck with labels,

and your observations about your ex are hitting me in important ways, about drawing back, that this is not invalid way, but that doing so is hitting someone else's issues, partner's issues in a real way

I have to go now. I'm trying to keep to my courage, because what I really feel right now is the pull of longing and afraid that I will forget. I feel like I have forgotten so much.

Can't keep sight of how my depression has been confused with the absence of love and the childish desire to be taken care of and never grow up. I have lost sight of myself I guess.

In time,

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

the thing is done, i mean it's over, yet we still talk many times a day so far, and feel that we'rd twist as i imagine going out into the world to do something and not being there to answer the call or being out and getting a call on my cell and facing all of the questions. not able to hold this idea that this is my LIFE. mine.

i'm not there yet. i'm not away. not emotionally.

maybe it's painfully obvious who i am. but it's still safer. just a smidgen safer.

spinning spinning

dangling now darling

falling falling


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i'm not there yet. i'm not away. not emotionally.


This will take time. So take all the time you need. You were in this for "keeps" and it didn't work out. It is no one's fault, just the way the globe spins sometimes.

I don't think there is a time limit on these things, so don't push it.  Just put one foot in front of the other.

Each hour that passes, is one more hour toward getting "you" back.

You will be ok.


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