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Should I submit to a life of bondage to AAPs?


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I have a psychotic disorder, induced in 2001 by smoking cannabis. I do not smoke any more and I have recently quit alcohol which was exacerbating my symptoms. The pdoc says I fit most of the criteria for schizophrenia but as I have no negative symptoms he has dxed Schizotypal disorder or Psychotic disorder NOS

I quit abilify 30mgs 6 weeks ago on the basis that it was only half working - I was still psychotic, ok it was bearable but would you buy a car that only half works or a computer that only works half the time? I have tried other APs - Risperdal (extreme weight gain), Amisulpride (hormone issues), Seroquel (restless legs so bad I had to get out of bed in the middle of the night to jog), the only ones left for me are Olanzapine (wont take due to extreme weight gain) and Clozapine (Pdoc wont give it to me til he is certain its schizophrenia).

I was so proud of myself for coming off meds, I felt great, Im keeping away from the old booze, my ED and SI are gone, but recently my psychosis is getting worse and worse with wild paranoia about my pdoc inserting thoughts into my head, everyones out to get me, everyone can read my mind, people are tracking me, my thoughts are transparent, the phones bugged, theres hidden cameras everywhere, the television is broadcasting my thoughts, everything everyone is saying and doing seems purposefully contrived with the intention of destroying my sanity and irritating me to the max. BUT I DONT WANT TO TAKE AN ANTIPSYCHOTIC! The phuckiatrist will have won! Hes trying to poison me! Hes getting sent on free skiing holiday junkets for every patient he prescribes abilify to! He wants to control me as a laboratory rat! Hes a sadist, a careerist and an arch-manipulator! HE WILL HAVE BROKEN ME AND CONFINED ME TO A LIFE OF CHEMICAL LOBOTOMY! I want to be my own person, well and free from all this crap! I WONT CO-OPERATE WITH HIM! I'LL NEVER BEND TO HIS WILL OR DO A THING HE SAYS! THEY'RE ALL IN IT TOGETHER! if they just give me enough oxazepam I'll be grand!

Yes I know things will continue to deteriorate, psychosis eats the brain ya de yah de yah da, but if I keep to my plan never to see the phuckiatrist again or any of his evil spies maybe nobody will notice and I can be left in peace. Is it too much to want a life without meds? I mean they are all so new, nobody really has a clue what effect they have on you. I dont even know what the purpose of my ranting is any more. Please ignore and pass the benzos....  ;)

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I understand why you quit Abilify. You were on the highest recommended dosage, and it still wasn't working. But you say that you quit because "it was only half working", and you don't want to start on anything else because you don't want to please or "give in" to your psychiatrist, But you still want something to help. To me, it sounds like your thoughts are all over the place. With your post and your stated thoughts, it sounds like you want something to work, but don't want something because of paranoid thoughts.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone here said "then get another psychiatrist", But I'm not going to say that. Mainly because no matter where you go, those same thoughts will tag a long with the next guy.

I can't tell you what you should take and not take. But I will say that their is Antipsychotics out there that can help if you give them a chance at the right dosage. I will also say that if Abilify was only half working, then I'd stay on such and find another med to fill in the gaps. In matter of fact, that is exactly what I did. I was taking 30mg of Abilify and had to add 600mg of Seroquel to "get what the Abilify missed".

It might be best to get on something that could help (even if other peoples sideaffects scare you, it may not happen to you the same way) to try and chip away the thoughts. That way when you start to get better, your thoughts will clear for you, helping you see that the paranoid thoughts in which made you not want to take them seem exactly as that..paranoid thoughts.

Twitch

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I have paranoid sz and your thoughts sound exactly like mine when I'm unmedicated.  I take Abilify and Seroquel, so sometimes you need a combo of AAP's to get the job done.  I wouldn't give up on meds just yet, there are tons out there.  I know it's hard to trust your pdoc because of the paranoia, I've been there before.  Have you ever tried Geodon? It doesn't make you gain weight and doesn't make you sleepy like the others. 

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Birdie Hon,

Sorry that things are so shite. It sounds really really stressful to be the one in charge of having to protect yourself all the time, I remember being paranoid (I am back to the doc today with more paranoia and psychosis right now actually) and it sucks cos it tends to isolate you and make you even more frustrated.

You're right that these drugs are new and we don't know what they do long term. But we do know what psychosis does long term. It fucks your life up. I know that you're a strong woman who essentially wants her life back, and I reckon to do that you're going to need to humour the phuckiatrist and go with some of his ideas. You can always do what you have just done and come off the meds again. But it seems like shooting yourself in the foot to not try.

Can you ring Mind, they have a crazymed helpline and may be able to tell you about new meds, and they are pretty impartial and honest about what works and what is just crappy? I have used them before.

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Thanks for all your replies.

Im still pretty torn as to what to do....

A part of my brain says 'co-operate before its too late' another part is screeching 'the phuckiatrist is trying to poison you and hes putting these thoughts in your head!'. I cant stand the thought of seeing him or co-operating with him. All the phuckiatrists are in it together, so I dont want to see another one. I have major major transference issues....  ;)

Unfortunately UK doctors believe in the cult of monotherapy, they wont prescribe 2 APs at the same time and Geodon is not available here. I will ring the MIND or SANE line for advice and really bend some poor sod's ear with my paranoid ramblings.... :embarassed:

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Blackbird, I really feel for you. I went through a horrid psychotic mania recently where I was convinced the hospital were trying to poison me and experiment on me, and were monitering me through secret cameras in my house. I had dumped my meds before for the same reasons- they were only half working- and then I had a horrendous psychotic mania. The only thing that got me taking meds was a referral back to the first pdoc I ever saw, who I trust with my life (and I now possibly get to keep her, yay!).

Please, please try meds again. I doubt that anyone will leave you alone to get on with things if you don't see a pdoc again...I felt very much like that, fuck them all, I'm not psychotic and I want to be left alone, but now I'm finally out of it I can see how messed up my thinking was and I feel so much better now. If your psychosis worsens can you really continue to function? I know I couldn't, I was screeching at random people in the street to leave me the fuck alone. I couldn't have gone much longer without being hospitalised/sectioned.

Why won't your pdoc prescribe two APs? Mine has done- I'm taking 20mg Zyprexa/Olanzapine as my main AP, and I have 50mg Thorazine/Chlorpromazine added on as a sleep aid and to squash the remaining hypomania the Zyprexa didn't take care of. As for the Zyprexa making people fat...I've found my appetite to decrease on it. But that's only short term. Could it not be worth a trial for a week or two? Or what about one of the old school APs? I've only just started Chlorpromazine so I don't know what it's going to be like long term...we shall see,

I really feel for you, psychosis is horrible and I hope you find a solution.

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You need to be very careful. Until finding the right anti-psychotic I lived in an alternate reality where I was being watched 24/7 and everyone was in on something I wasn't, with inital symptomslike you describe above. I read one of your previous posts (a fe months ago?) where you describe another psychotic symptom I had - romantic obsession. Amisulpride works for me but the other anti-psychotic my psychiatrist has always said might be helpful is clozapine. I think you really need to lay it on thick about how paranoid and low you are getting because otherwise you could get much worse to the point, where like I did, you refuse all medication and create your own hell that gets progressively worse (I have been sectioned twice). Maybe you are nothing like me but it sounds like you definitely need an anti-psychotic and if you haven't tried clozapine then it would be a good idea. Benzos are only a short-term solution as you probably know and extremely addictive to boot.

I know the NHS is a shower of bollocks but try changing psychiatrists until you can try clozapine. And if you can't then maybe taking Abilify again will at least save you from the worst. Seems like some anti-psychotic is needed anyway.

Maybe I'm way off the mark and just looking to be able to council someone like me. I did get pretty far out back in the day and now I've had half a bottle of wine and crazyboards is making me reminisce.

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I know the NHS is a shower of bollocks but try changing psychiatrists until you can try clozapine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just have to respond to that- gave me a bit of a spitting coffee everywhere moment! I've recently seen, in sucession, 3 of the most shit pdocs ever to walk this earth. I think the only decent pdoc is the one attatched to the crisis team, and I'm only getting to see her on a possible permanent basis because they know I fucking will not take my meds otherwise. I guess you could say I have trust issues.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say, was it is possible to change pdocs under our shitty system. And if you're not getting what you want treatment wise (ie clozapine) it really could be worth kicking up a stink. Just remind them of patients choice- you have the right to request a second opinion/to see a different doctor. Of course it depends on whether you are unhappy with your current pdoc- but I don't see why you have to have schizophrenia to get clozapine. Why does schizo = clozapine? A psychotic disorder could cause you more suffering now then someone with milder schizophrenia- does the dx really matter that much to him? It kind of reminds me of the first phuckiatrist I saw who said to be BP 1 i had to have had a hospital admission for mania. I've never been admitted to hospital but I sure as hell have had full manias/am def BP I. I'm ranting now aren't i?

Ok, time to shut the fuck up. Hope I've said something useful. I think tonight's going to be an Ativan night.

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Thanks for your replies lost and whatsgoingon! At least we know we are not alone in our struggles to cope with the N fucking H Bastard S. And we can all commiserate wih each other about the hell that is psychosis.

Things are deteriorating rapidly, I can't eat (well nothing that isn't toast), I can't concentrate, I have abandoned all my hobbies such as reading and watching DVDs which were things I really enjoyed, I cant ever picture myself ever being able to work again, I just lie in bed smoking, everything everyone says and does seems like its purposefully contrived to make me homocidal. Everything that happens seems like it has been designed purposefully to drive me further into madness. I have developed a severe phobia of seeing my phuckiatrist. I keep ruminating on things he has said to me in the past. I dont want to go near him, I cant trust him. Im convinced he's behind everything, I lay awake all last night convinced they were spying on me and implanting thoughts into my head. It is so fucking draining trying to put on a mask of sanity.

You are all totally right, I need to take an anti-psychotic, there is no point in trying to fight it. I just wanted a normal drug free existence so I could turn round and tell them "Ha Im fine!" Plus I have been working really hard to combat my alcoholism and SI and ED. Part of me is convinced that it is prozac withdrawal that is making me feel so rubbishy and the psychosis will go away when the prozac is out of my system. Taking a benzo is wrong. It's like trying to stem a gushing artery with a band aid. I dont know why he wont prescribe 2 APs, thats why he is a phuckiatrist I guess. I just cant face seeing him ever again, and I cant trust any MHP because they are all in it together

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Guest Guestxyz

Hi.

I understand your situation.

Your psychosis seems to be deteriorating, and it seems to become more chronically.

That your psychotic symptoms prevent you from getting the help you need is a very serious thing.

I hope you can hold it together, and visit a doctor you trust (or else one you just don't trust). Trust me, the psychiatrist is not out to get you. Why would he ? His hyppocratic oath would forbid him to do so.

I don't know if you need two antipsychotics or not. I don't know your full history.

But if you look at the spectrum of Risperdal, Seroquel, Zyprexa and the many older typical antipsychotics, there must be something that works for you. And if they work, they usually start to work fast. And "schizophrenia" doesn't mean much.

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I am so sorry you are suffering.

But I am a person who has seen meds do many good things for people who would otherwise be tortured by their own brains.

You would not consider the fact that you have to breathe and eat makes you a slave to air, food and water would you?

The doctor is not trying to "win" or beat you, he wants you to be as happy and as stable as possible. Really!!! Stable happy people are MUCH easier to work with.

And not everyone gets fat on zyprexa. My hubby actually lost weight because he knew the weight gain was a risk and was a little more careful with his eating.

No matter what you decide to do, just keep in mind that their are a lot of people who want to help...it just may be hard to recognize the help for what it really is due to the psychosis.

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Blackbird- in a way, it's probably for the best if you *are* able to see a different pdoc now, until you're stable again, before you make any long term decisions. The best way to do this I imagine would be to visit your GP- in our area we have a crisis team with it's own pdoc who doesn't have any regular patients (except for me! whoops) so patients in crisis can be assessed the same day. Patients are referred through their GP, pdoc, or if they have the number and an arsey mother, themselves. Maybe you have something similar where you are? Or what about going to A and E- ultimately if you see someone different it could help.

In my last mania, my psychosis revolved around thoughts of me being experimented on/poisoned by the hospital. I only took meds because I was able to start seeing the one doctor I was certain *wasn't* harming me, so I really do understand how difficult it is to get help. Sometimes with psychosis, you know your thoughts aren't true, but you can't stop thinking them and they dont stop being frightening. Now I'm out of the psychosis area (all salute Zyprexa!) I can see things much more clearly- my psychosis was feeding off my gut instincts about the shit level of the community pdocs I was passed around between. That's the funny thing about psychosis- it's like an enemy that knows your weaknesses and has fun with them. Or at least it is to me.

Is there anyone, doctor or nurse, you've ever seen that you've trusted? Even if they're not mental health? I love my GP and would go back to her in a split second if things hadnt worked out with getting a bloody good pdoc. I really think you need to start somewhere, with someone who can support you in getting you some help.

Let us know how you're doing.

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Well I went to the GP this morning to try and get some help but I was too paranoid to communicate what I was feeling and it came out a garbled mess and he just looked at me like I was an annoying twat (and he kept patronizingly calling me dear). He couldnt wait to get me out of there so he could go on seeing normal people with bad backs and flus and not have to dirty his hands with the mentally ill.

Consequently I got no help and I have spent the past 4 hours crying and stuffing my face with sedatives. Every thought I have is pure torture. Im never going near another doctor again. I totally give up on any attempt to control this illness, I want to die, and the quickest way to suicide is to leave it unmedicated.

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Guest Guestxyz

Blackbird:  "and the quickest way to suicide is to leave it unmedicated"

Actually, that's probably not true. To take your own life takes a lot of mental strength. Becoming more disabled by chronic psychosis will make it progressively harder to take your own life. Probably.

Please, go and see a doctor. It seems you really don't want to see your psychiatrist.

Getting another psychiatrist would probably take a lot of time.

I'm just giving you a suggestion: go to your GP.

I mentioned something earlier about the many antipsychotics that exist. Most probably there is something for you that works. (and don't be too eager for clozapine/clozaril, side effects and it takes a long time to start working). You could even try Zyprexa. It doesn't make everyone fat. I think that if you go to your GP, and explain that you cannot work at all with your psychiatrist, he'd be willing to prescribe you an antipsychotic. (At least in the mean time, till you get another psychiatrist). It's better than nothing. When an antipsychotic starts working, it usually starts working fast. Maybe your GP and you could agree to experiment with antipsychotics, with regard to the name and dose of the antipsychotics.

Since you have trouble communicating, it could be of great help if you write down what you want to say and show it to your doc. Maybe take someone with you who you trust and who understands you. It could also help to say that you have suicidal thoughts, it might make it seem more urgent for your GP that you get effective treatment NOW.

Taking an antipsychotic now does not mean you have to keep taking them for the rest of your life. In fact, the sooner you get effective treatment, the sooner you become healthy again, and  probably, at some time in the future you can stop taking the antipsychotic (taper down!).

I think your GP violates his hippocratic oath if he refuses to help you. If you have no better idea, you could print this out and show it to him.

And if all else fails there is the option of ECT, as I mentioned before. I'd say it beats killing yourself.

There are also a few alternatives, I don't know much about them (anticonvulsants?), and they are probably not the best approach. See: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:RPyQq...nl&ct=clnk&cd=3

http://www.priory.com/psych/benzos.htm

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Or...you could print out this thread and hand it to your GP. You have managed to express yourself on this thread pretty well despite your current state. Nothing speaks better than your own words.

Please take care of yourself and get some help.

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The first time I tried to get help for my problems, I saw the most unhelpful, crap GP on the planet. It took me another 4 months to go back, see a different GP and finally get help. I was talking about this with my pdoc earlier; she wishes I'd been able to get help earlier on because of how much I've suffered on my own.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes, you just have to give things a go. Could you try and see a different GP? I made a promise to myself that if I were ever to try to kill myself, it'd be when I was sure all my options were exhausted and there was no other answer. Suicide is permanent- even if you think you can;t be helped, don't you owe it to yourself to tick every possible avenue of help off your list first?

I'm probably not helping, but I really feel for you. My paranoid delusions are for me, the worst part of my bipolar, with the voices coming a close second. I know you're in a really horrible place, I just hope you're able to find some way forward.

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Seems like the easiest thing would be to take WZ's advice and copy this thread into a word processor (deleting all reference to this site to avoid future paranoia about docs checking up on you), print it out and then give it to your doc marked "urgent". You don't even need to go to the surgery and conftont the doc: you could mail it or even find out the fax number of the surgery (you can fax from most local libraries and I think some websites if you don't have a fax machine) - with this latter option I'm sure you'd get a very quick response indeed. If you don't like your particular GP then showing this thread to almost any medical professional would spur some action - it reads like pretty worrying stuff. The only good thing is that at least you have some perspective on your paranoia and depression, and can at least be open about it on here, but that could change.

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Well I went to he GP again and consented to take risperdal prn. I usually take up to 3 mgs when I feel really really bad but it doesn't have any effect on the psychosis. I spent the whole of yesterday evening in the cinema convinced that the people in the back row were commentating on my thoughts and this was after taking the risperdal  :embarassed:  I suffer repeatedly from highly unpleasant thoughts that will not go away, I see subliminal messages in everything, I hear muffled voices and weird sounds, I see strange things floating about, I think everyones out to get me and God has made it his personal mission to drive me into madness, the list is pretty endless and the risperdal does nothing. I dont want to go back to the doctor again as he is a patronizing little bitch who calls me 'dear' and obviously thinks Im a stupid cow who should just shut her mouth, take the tablets and piss off. I have a morbid paranoid phobia about my psychiatrist and I cant face seeing him. The GP wont give me another psychiatrist.

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