Homicidal fantasies

[surreal]

Are they healthy or do I need help?

Edited October 6, 2017 by surreal

[jt07]

Why did you delete your question? I saw it, and it was an important question.

[surreal]

6 minutes ago, jt07 said:

Why did you delete your question? I saw it, and it was an important question.

I just added the question back. I don't why I deleted it.

[jt07]

I don't know if they are healthy or not, but I think that it is something you might want to run past your pdoc or tdoc. It's basically like suicidal thoughts. If you have a concrete plan and become a danger to others then at that point you definitely need help. If they are just fleeting thoughts or fantasies, I don't think they are really a problem.

[Gearhead]

What manner of fantasy? Directed toward whom? 

[surreal]

5 minutes ago, Gearhead said:

What manner of fantasy? Directed toward whom? 

I feel like I've already said too much.

Edited October 6, 2017 by surreal

[nestor]

I fantasize about being the next George Zimmerman, killing someone or better yet multiple people and getting away with it while pissing everyone off is my dream. But my fantasies mostly focus on the aftermath and not the killing itself, especially the interviews and reactions, I want a cheap and easy way to fame and infamy and I want a chance for the world to hear my voice. But even if my killings don't become famous and so long as there's no risk of me going to prison, I would be satisfied. My life may be a complete failure, but so long as I get to take someone or someones down with me, it all evens out or even leaves me with a win.

Edited October 6, 2017 by nestor

[Mogli]

On 10/6/2017 at 2:57 AM, nestor said:

I fantasize about being the next George Zimmerman, killing someone or better yet multiple people and getting away with it while pissing everyone off is my dream. But my fantasies mostly focus on the aftermath and not the killing itself, especially the interviews and reactions, I want a cheap and easy way to fame and infamy and I want a chance for the world to hear my voice. But even if my killings don't become famous and so long as there's no risk of me going to prison, I would be satisfied. My life may be a complete failure, but so long as I get to take someone or someones down with me, it all evens out or even leaves me with a win.

I can't tell if this is a serious post or not. @nestorSo causing others to suffer would be gratifying?

[nestor]

5 hours ago, Mogli said:

I can't tell if this is a serious post or not. @nestorSo causing others to suffer would be gratifying?

It's less about making people suffer and more about getting attention.

[Wooster]

So you want to get attention for being a racist murderer then?

That's pretty gross.

[heilmania]

1 minute ago, Wooster said:

So you want to get attention for being a racist murderer then?

That's pretty gross.

I agree. 

[nestor]

It's part of my martyrdom complex, I want to be demonized and hated and persecuted for even though I've done nothing wrong. But even more than a desire for hatred and persecution, I want so much for a few people to support and defend me. It's one thing for people to love you and support you when there's nothing controversial or dangerous about it, but when everyone's against you yet someone is brave enough to stick their neck out for you, that is one of the most beautiful and romantic things ever.

[Wooster]

So on one hand, you believe George Zimmerman did nothing wrong and on the other hand you believe the people who defended him were brave, beautiful, and romantic as though it were some sort of selfless motivation? I think your analogy falls apart pretty quickly because of the person you've chosen to fantasize about emulating.

[nestor]

4 minutes ago, Wooster said:

So on one hand, you believe George Zimmerman did nothing wrong and on the other hand you believe the people who defended him were brave, beautiful, and romantic as though it were some sort of selfless motivation? I think your analogy falls apart pretty quickly because of the person you've chosen to fantasize about emulating.

I'm not talking about George Zimmerman,I'm talking about myself. I will not make the mistake Zimmerman made by actively going after people I think are suspicious, my rules for engagement will be much more strict, the enemy will have to approach me first and make themselves an obvious threat, and I will retreat before shooting them, even though I don't have to, I want to avoid at all costs not only to jail but even going on trial, I don't want to be financially ruined.

[Wooster]

I understand this is a fantasy you've got.

How does this fantasy help you? What function does it fill for you?

[nestor]

14 hours ago, Wooster said:

I understand this is a fantasy you've got.

How does this fantasy help you? What function does it fill for you?

Are you talking to me or surreal?

[Cerberus]

Nestor -

Your entire scenario suffers from a fatal logical flaw. If you commit such an act, one of two things will happen, as a matter of course: You will either a) be killed in the act either by yourself or by law enforcers, or b) be prosecuted and go on trial. There is no possibility that you can avoid one or the other of these outcomes. One or the other outcome has occurred in 100% of such cases. So let us examine each of these scenarios in relation to your stated goal of committing murder and yet enjoying the support of other people for having done nothing wrong without the risk of jail or trial.

Scenario A: When you kill another human being, law enforcement authorities are legally bound to apprehend you, regardless of the circumstance, so that an inquiry can be made. If they are able to prevent the killing, they are legally bound to do that as well, and will kill you in order to prevent it. If a law enforcement officer commands you to put down your weapon, and you fail to immediately comply, you are subject to being killed regardless of the circumstance. If an officer is not present, and but attempts to arrest you after the fact and you resist, you are also subject to being shot as a suspected murderer.

You may say that you would avoid this by killing yourself, but either way, your death would automatically preclude any net gain or positive reward from having committed the deed in the first place. Being dead, you would not be in a position to enjoy the support of anyone, nor would you be in any position to protest your innocence of wrongdoing, or justification for having committed the act. It would simply be assumed that you acted for criminal reasons, and you would be vilified and hated, posthumously, for all time.

Scenario B: Assuming you are not killed, you will navigate the criminal justice system. This is unavoidable. Your assertion that you will have done no wrong rests on the highly dubious notion that someone will have assaulted or threatened you without provocation and that you will successfully employ the laws of your locality to "get away with" the act. The problem with this idea is that you are actively planning this, which means that you will have to provoke someone into giving you the pretext for killing them, which may nullify your defense under the law, and which will certainly give rise to a vigorous prosecution of you under the law. Your defense of this prosecution will be enormously expensive - that is the nature of our legal system. Moreover, unless you possess the means ready at hand to pay a substantial sum to secure a bail bond, you will be incarcerated to await trial. If the judge deems you to be a further threat to public safety, a flight risk, or a risk to your own safety, he or she may refuse the opportunity for bail at all, and send you straight to jail until you are tried.

The result of this scenario is that even if you are (miraculously) not found guilty of murder and sentenced to the very real possibility of many years in prison for premeditated murder, you will emerge from the experience destitute and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to the courts and the legal establishment. You may also be sued separately by the victim(s)' relatives under civil law for restitution regardless of the outcome of the criminal case, and those suits would further destroy you financially simply by defending against them, assuming you could afford to do so at all.

To sum up, your plan is idiotic. You will either die and get no benefit from it at all, or will unavoidably be either jailed, impoverished, or both.

 

One other minor complication: You have been at pains to openly describe your plans on our public boards, which are Google-searchable. With such statements floating around the internet, there is no way whatsoever that you could prevail with a claim that your actions were not premeditated. There is no point in deleting them now; those posts have by now been archived in numerous places on the Net that are beyond your reach, and indeed, have been hardcopied by our staff. Simply by expressing these ideas publicly, you have placed yourself at risk of discovery and investigation by the FBI. Should we be approached for further information by the FBI, we will supply it; please review the User Agreement.

Your best course of action at this point is to forget you ever thought about it.

[nestor]

2 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Nestor -

Your entire scenario suffers from a fatal logical flaw. If you commit such an act, one of two things will happen, as a matter of course: You will either a) be killed in the act either by yourself or by law enforcers, or b) be prosecuted and go on trial. There is no possibility that you can avoid one or the other of these outcomes. One or the other outcome has occurred in 100% of such cases. So let us examine each of these scenarios in relation to your stated goal of committing murder and yet enjoying the support of other people for having done nothing wrong without the risk of jail or trial.

Scenario A: When you kill another human being, law enforcement authorities are legally bound to apprehend you, regardless of the circumstance, so that an inquiry can be made. If they are able to prevent the killing, they are legally bound to do that as well, and will kill you in order to prevent it. If a law enforcement officer commands you to put down your weapon, and you fail to immediately comply, you are subject to being killed regardless of the circumstance. If an officer is not present, and but attempts to arrest you after the fact and you resist, you are also subject to being shot as a suspected murderer.

You may say that you would avoid this by killing yourself, but either way, your death would automatically preclude any net gain or positive reward from having committed the deed in the first place. Being dead, you would not be in a position to enjoy the support of anyone, nor would you be in any position to protest your innocence of wrongdoing, or justification for having committed the act. It would simply be assumed that you acted for criminal reasons, and you would be vilified and hated, posthumously, for all time.

Scenario B: Assuming you are not killed, you will navigate the criminal justice system. This is unavoidable. Your assertion that you will have done no wrong rests on the highly dubious notion that someone will have assaulted or threatened you without provocation and that you will successfully employ the laws of your locality to "get away with" the act. The problem with this idea is that you are actively planning this, which means that you will have to provoke someone into giving you the pretext for killing them, which may nullify your defense under the law, and which will certainly give rise to a vigorous prosecution of you under the law. Your defense of this prosecution will be enormously expensive - that is the nature of our legal system. Moreover, unless you possess the means ready at hand to pay a substantial sum to secure a bail bond, you will be incarcerated to await trial. If the judge deems you to be a further threat to public safety, a flight risk, or a risk to your own safety, he or she may refuse the opportunity for bail at all, and send you straight to jail until you are tried.

The result of this scenario is that even if you are (miraculously) not found guilty of murder and sentenced to the very real possibility of many years in prison for premeditated murder, you will emerge from the experience destitute and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to the courts and the legal establishment. You may also be sued separately by the victim(s)' relatives under civil law for restitution regardless of the outcome of the criminal case, and those suits would further destroy you financially simply by defending against them, assuming you could afford to do so at all.

To sum up, your plan is idiotic. You will either die and get no benefit from it at all, or will unavoidably be either jailed, impoverished, or both.

 

One other minor complication: You have been at pains to openly describe your plans on our public boards, which are Google-searchable. With such statements floating around the internet, there is no way whatsoever that you could prevail with a claim that your actions were not premeditated. There is no point in deleting them now; those posts have by now been archived in numerous places on the Net that are beyond your reach, and indeed, have been hardcopied by our staff. Simply by expressing these ideas publicly, you have placed yourself at risk of discovery and investigation by the FBI. Should we be approached for further information by the FBI, we will supply it; please review the User Agreement.

Your best course of action at this point is to forget you ever thought about it.

I'm quite aware that I have to go down to the station for questioning, of course I intend to fully comply with law enforcement and I will kill myself only if I'm actually arrested charged and indicted with a crime. On point b I'm not actively hunting people down to kill. While I do go on long walks with the hopes that I get in a self defense situation, that's not the only reason for my walks. One reason is that I like to explore the city and see new things. Another reason for my walks is to keep my weight down. And when I don't encounter a self defense situation, I'm a little relieved because I realize the danger a self defense situation would present. And if I do find myself in a self defense situation, I would exercise the absolute most caution. I will not provoke anyone, if someone does appear to be attacking me I will retreat even though I live in a stand your ground state and only if the threat pursues their attack will I kill them.

[Cerberus]

I repeat - there is no way that this fantasy of yours, if enacted, can do anything but make your life more miserable by an order of magnitude. Plus, given the state you live in, it's a reasonable conclusion that any aggressor will be at least as well armed as you are, and at least as willing to use that weapon. That suggests that by taking these long walks looking for trouble that the odds are actually higher that you'll get yourself killed than that you'll be able to defend yourself. It's utter foolishness. No on is going to give you any support for this; they're going to simply think you were an idiot for going out looking for a bad situation and someone to shoot. And they'll be right.

Nestor, all of this makes it very clear that you need to be working with a care provider on addressing these issues, not trying mad schemes to address your inner demons yourself. Are you seeing a pdoc or a therapist? If so, please call them at once to make an appointment and explain all of this so that you can obtain the care you need before you do something that will destroy your life beyond any hope of improvement. If not, it is imperative that you seek out professional care immediately. If you are not under the care of a professional, there is little we can do for you here.

[Wooster]

@nestor your fantasies have clearly crossed over into action, even if it is the action of putting yourself in situations of potential harm. This is beyond the scope of what a peer support site can and should tackle. Please get yourself assessed and treated by a qualified professional. You deserve support to get through this, and we would be happy to hear how you are progressing in treatment.

i don't say this because I'm trying to shut you down. Only because we would do the same if someone were having the same kinds of fantasies about suicide and passively putting themselves in situations where they hope something bad would happen.

 

@surreal as to your original question about whether homocidal thoughrs are bad, the answer is "it depends".

sometimes fantasies are harmless ways too blow off steam about stressful situations. And sometimes, like in the thoughts Nestor describes, there is more time and energy invested in the thoughts, the more dangerous they become to yourself and others. In any case, they are a real and serious symptom that deserve assessment in person by a qualified medical professional.

[nestor]

21 minutes ago, Wooster said:

@nestor your fantasies have clearly crossed over into action, even if it is the action of putting yourself in situations of potential harm. This is beyond the scope of what a peer support site can and should tackle. Please get yourself assessed and treated by a qualified professional. You deserve support to get through this, and we would be happy to hear how you are progressing in treatment.

i don't say this because I'm trying to shut you down. Only because we would do the same if someone were having the same kinds of fantasies about suicide and passively putting themselves in situations where they hope something bad would happen

I'm unwilling to do this because like I said, my walks are not just about hoping someone will attack me so I can kill them, they're also about exploring the city and exercise, if I were to tell someone about my homicidal fantasies, I would be involuntarily detained and my gun and license stripped from me, then if I resumed my walks for urban exploration and exercise I could eventually run into a threat and I will have nothing to defend myself with. Even without the hope of killing someone, I like too much the security and resulting freedom of action my gun gives me.

[heilmania]

5 hours ago, nestor said:

I like too much the security and resulting freedom of action my gun gives me.

What about a taser? Something non-lethal (not that tasers can't be lethal- they certainly can be if used on someone with heart problems, etc.)? Also, plenty of people carry mace or pepper spray, too, for the reasons you said above- they want to feel safer traveling through the city. 

[Wooster]

You may not necessarily be involuntarily hospitalized. There are voluntary treatment options that would allow you to explore your risk of harm to yourself and to others.

However, what's definitely NOT acceptable is to keep actively telling us here about your thoughts and plans without taking steps to make it different.

[Wooster]

If you have a gun and a license to carry it, and you'd like to keep those things it seems to me it would be in your best interests to figure this stuff out. 

[amskray]

Surreal,unfortunately  this thread has gotten side tracked from your original question.  I guess that i would say that having any kind of fantasy isn't necessarily unhealthy.  If someone has insight and, like  you are doing, is able to ask "do I maybe need help?", then that is a healthy step. I would say that it would be good to be on the safe side and talk to a therapist about the thoughts.