"Magic Mushrooms" to treat MI/"Reset Button"

[amskray]

I recently read an article about another study where they used magic mushrooms to treat, I think,depression.  It was a really small study but showed sucess after 2 treatments.  The idea was that triggering a psychotic episode kind of "reset" the brain chemistry. (I am -obviously- not a scientist and apologize for my rally non-scientific explanation ?).

I have had this experience of feeling like a reset button has been activated with my brain chemistry at least 4 or 5 times in my life after really bad episodes of depression.  The most recent was this past summer after my doctor took me off of my duloxetine and tried to start me on another medication.  I responded very badly and was admitted into the acute station at the clinic for a week.  Anyway...I went back on duloxetine and after about 3 weeks I startd to feel REALLY good. Of course it  could just be the relief of not feeling so shitty but it feels different. Like something was "burned off"... kind of like can sense the circuitry  of my brain firing up again.(I have also experienced it after a migraine but to a lesser extent. Like I feel better,emotionally, than before the migraine).

Can anyone relate? Or...?

[Blahblah]

Sign me up! I only wish I had a reset button for my brain. Maybe this happened to you because you went off your med and then reinstated it?

[amskray]

Who knows why? But for me it kind of seems like what happens to the computer sometimes when it needs to be rebooted.  It's just that it's not so easy to turn your brain off and on again. I guess it's also like what happens with ECT. I think they even said that in the article. 

[CeremonyNewOrder]

I'm not sure if I should take magical mushrooms now that I'm diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder but before the onset of my illness, I did mushrooms and it was one of the most positive experiences of my life. I felt completely one with the universe and felt that I loved everyone and everything. Even in my meditation practice I have never experienced anything the same.

 

I really like to see this study. I think people with mental illness should stay way from 90% of drugs but I think mushrooms under supervision could help.

[amskray]

The researchers stressed over and over again that they were not advocating recreational, unsupervised  use. I  would personally be really concerned that I  could develop even more severe mental health issues...I gues what interests me mostly is the idea of resetting the brain. 

[crtclms]

I read an article that said mushrooms could help with migraine, so I bought some from the Netherlands that were medical grade. I'd done mushrooms many times, but these were the only mushrooms that made me throw up, and they weren't very hallucinatory. It did zero for my head. I was bummed.

[aura]

I did shrooms while manic and it did nothing to stop that episode. It was a really positive experience though.

[amskray]

I am over 50 now and waaay  past the "experimental years". I drank a lot but was slways too afraid to take any other drugs. I always felt on the edge of insanity anyway and I was afraid that drugs would push me right over the edge and I 'd never come back. 

[TakeAChillPill]

Alcohol used to reset my brain cuz it would cause me to spin into a deeply pleasurable and unworldly intense euphoria that lasted hours until the alcohol had subsided.  It was amazing and I'm most certain I'll never find anything that would trump it at all.  

Now I take Abilify and if I drink I just feel plain icky.  

[mikl_pls]

Weed made me see the world in a completely different perspective. It made me see "what do I really need to get upset about or be upset about" and it changed my temperament from there on. I have been a different person. That was while I was dating a guy who smoked it though, so when he broke up with me, I wasn't able to get the nerve to get my own... lol 

Never tried anything else. Been curious about shrooms because my brother used to use them and it changed him completely. He used to hate himself, was depressed all the time, would have pseudo-psychotic episodes (he wouldn't be happy with me discussing him here), but after one particular experience, they basically forced him to look at himself objectively, and made him see that he didn't have to be sad and depressed and that he could choose to be happy and like himself. (I wish it were that simple for all of us!) But since then he's been totally different. The same happy, goofy, silly, funny, loving older brother I used to know when I was growing up.  He does see a pdoc but just for ADHD.

I'm afraid of trying them though what with all my psychiatric medications...

[browri]

1 hour ago, mikl_pls said:

I'm afraid of trying them though what with all my psychiatric medications...

If I understand correctly there's a risk of serotonin syndrome. Or maybe that's because of the MAOI they put in ayahuasca tea. Ugh can't remember.

Regardless, shrooms mediate their effect by activating serotonin receptors and if you're taking an antipsychotic you're theoretically wasting some of those shrooms blocking their activity. And combined with an antidepressant I could see them causing serotonin syndrome. Wouldn't be a surprise.

[mikl_pls]

21 hours ago, browri said:

If I understand correctly there's a risk of serotonin syndrome. Or maybe that's because of the MAOI they put in ayahuasca tea. Ugh can't remember.

Regardless, shrooms mediate their effect by activating serotonin receptors and if you're taking an antipsychotic you're theoretically wasting some of those shrooms blocking their activity. And combined with an antidepressant I could see them causing serotonin syndrome. Wouldn't be a surprise.

That's right... Their effect is mainly through the 5-HT2A agonism, isn't it?

DO NOT WANT SEROTONIN SYNDROME.

[Blahblah]

I've been following this topic for awhile. Researchers are finding many positive clinical effects of psychedelics (magic mushrooms, MDMA, LSD and ayuhuasca) as a promising form of treatment for mental illness (depression, anxiety, PTSD, addiction). I think the explanation about how the drugs re-route the circuitry/ longterm pathways in the brain is very interesting (check out the visual graph of the brains) In theory, maybe this is sort of what ECT does?

Does anyone know exactly where they are doing these clinical trials/studies at the moment? Seems mainly in the US and Netherlands...btw, I am not condoning that anyone just go and start taking these drugs by themselves..Big risk of Serotonin Syndrome and psychosis. Researchers have the participants off all medications for awhile before starting the treatments.

http://www.businessinsider.com/psychedelics-depression-anxiety-alcoholism-mental-illness-2017-1

http://www.businessinsider.com/when-psychedelics-approved-for-mental-illness-depression-2017-1

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2127802-psychedelic-drug-ayahuasca-improves-hard-to-treat-depression/

http://www.newsweek.com/mental-health-can-ayahuasca-sacred-plant-amazon-help-addiction-and-depression-645826

[echolocation]

i know this is a bit of an old topic, but i also have had a chemical "reset" from shrooms! I did them a couple years ago before i was diagnosed/medicated, and for probably two weeks afterwards i felt wonderful. everything that had given me anxiety seemed so small and insignificant. i did them with some good friends during a time where i was very depressed, and it was such a fun, bright experience, like a beacon in what felt like an endless night. i felt completely cleansed. 

[browri]

thinking about the pharmacodynamics of it all, psilocybin is a tryptamine. Much like LSD (which, by contrast, is an ergotamine) it is a potent agonist of the 5HT_2A receptor, but the difference lies in the ultra-tight binding affinity that LSD has for that receptor. While both psilocybin and LSD have fairly short half-lives, the psychological effects of LSD for whatever reason last far longer. In PET scans they observed that this was because LSD takes a very long time to dissociate from the 5HT_2A receptor even after blood plasma levels have tapered off. Psilocybin on the other hand is slightly more intermediate which may explain why subjective reports indicate that the effects last ~5 hours or so whereas LSD can last 12-24.

Psilocybin is also an agonist of 5HT_1A which should cause downstream dopamine release and activation of the dopamine receptors. This should theoretically have a more calming effect than LSD, which can result in bad trips. At least my understanding is that psilocybin is less likely to cause bad trips.

Psilocybin also activates 5HT_2C receptors which can make you feel full and maybe even nauseous. Its activation of 5HT_1D would make it similar to the triptans that are used for migraines like Imitrex.

What's interesting though is that despite the fact that the 5HT_2A activation should REDUCE dopamine release, 5HT_1A activation INCREASES dopamine release. Clinical studies showed that Haldol could effectively be used to bring someone on psilocybin out of a trip. Whereas it was less effective against LSD which binds to the dopamine receptor to a certain extent where psilocybin does not.

All-in-all, psilocybin SEEMS far more "wholesome" (if you can actually call it that) or therapeutic than something like LSD which could have catastrophic consequences and there's really no way for you to know if it will without actually trying it.

Like I said earlier though, keep in mind that if you take AAPs, they're all 5HT_2A antagonists which will effectively blunt the effects of psilocybin (maybe LSD, but you'll likely need something stronger in that case). Therefore, some of the content would be "wasted" or you would just have to take more to get the same effect.

As for whether or not it "resets" brain chemistry, it's hard to say. Theoretically all of these actions should result in reduced outflow overall of dopamine, serotonin, and potentially other neurotransmitters while the substance is in your system. When the activation of those neurotransmitters' respective receptors is reduced due to lower outflow, the brain should naturally and automatically adjust the "pumps" to account for it and then as the psilocybin tapers off, you're left with increased outflow of serotonin and dopamine at the same time which together would provide a level of euthymia that likely would only be achieved using combos of medications.

As @mikl_pls was indicating, using these "sessions" to be introspective can potentially have a lasting impact. There's evidence that simply creatively stimulating yourself can have positive impacts on brain activity especially in the limbic system. So perhaps sessions of "chemical reset" combined with therapy may have a longer-lasting effect than the typical maintenance pharmacotherapy or psilocybin without talk therapy sessions. It may be even more useful for people who don't get much out of therapy because they are unable to put themselves into a state of mind that allows them to "train" their brain to function differently. This is why they're looking at psilo- or MDMA-assisted therapy as a genuinely effective clinical option.

[confused]

I know someone who is having good luck with taking a small amount of shrooms for depression. He has never experienced psychosis and does not take an ssri. When i talk to him, i think, i want what he is having, but i don't want another psychotic episode or seratonin syndrome.  

 

[notloki]

The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) is doing trials right now with MDMA for PTSD and they have trials coming up with Psilocybin. All government approved.