wookie Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Is this true? My counsellor says I need to get away from these meds. What better things are there for me to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I'm not sure that meds=Alzheimer's because then no one would take them. Some say they can lead to dementia but if you need them you need them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquarian Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I posted about dementia & benzo research recently. Here: That said, I still think it's a worthy effort to try to reduce one's reliance on benzos (if possible) by using skills learned in therapy (for instance) and/or using other non-benzo meds. That said (yet again), I remain on a tiny dose of valium taken at night (I tapered off xanax and onto valium many years ago) and my pdoc doesn't have a problem with it. I did have a 2-year period I stopped taking the tiny dose of valium but then went back on it for various reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crtclms Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 One of the things that happens to people early in Dementia and Alzheimers is that they start becoming anxious and irritable. Since it isn't yet known they have dementia, they are prescribed benzos. That worsens their dementia, and that's when they often get diagnosed. So the benzos were prescribed because of symptoms of dementia, but they think the benzo came first. I am pretty sure that is not true in every case, but it is one scenario. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 I am anxious and irritable but my memory hasn't failed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 3 hours ago, wookie said: I am anxious and irritable but my memory hasn't failed me. I think the issue is whether long-term use causes Alzheimer's. The one study I know has proven correlation but not causation as has been pointed out already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaryland Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I read an article about benzos and Alzheimers too, and ever since then I've been worried that I'm definitely going to get it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianOCD Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Chances are we're probably higher risk than people not on the meds, but it doesn't mean guaranteed alzheimers/dementia or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper29 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Somebody (not a doctor) recently told me I was going to get Alzheimer's from my meds. I told her that if I lived long enough to get Alzheimer's it would be due to the meds. Maybe that's messed up, but that's how I conceptualize the risk in my own mind. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 True. Old age is never really pretty. Something is gonna get me. I've gotten to that point in life where unmedicated bipolar depression will kill me faster than the meds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) On 10/19/2017 at 5:10 PM, wookie said: Is this true? My counsellor says I need to get away from these meds. What better things are there for me to take? Why is a counselor making these kind of comments ? Did he/she go to medical school ? You should worry about anticholinergics, they are more likely to cause a dementia. Benzos are not an anticholinergic but many psych meds are. Most of the AP/AAP's are anticholinergic. For starters: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25930085 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667 Edited June 27, 2018 by notloki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, notloki said: Why is a counselor making these kind of comments ? Did he/she go to medical school ? You should worry about anticholinergics, they are more likely to cause a dementia. Benzos are not an anticholinergic but many psych meds are. Most of the AP/AAP's are anticholinergic. For starters: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25930085 Yeah that silly new bipolar dx had my doctor yank out my antidepressant and put me on an AAP- seroquel. Do I ever need the sleep and it is helping with that as well as lifting my mood. If I die senile but comfortable that is okay. I haven't updated my med profile, and haven't been near a benzo in a while since I made that statement. So my thoughts have changed since then. That counselor was creepy I must admit. I dumped her like a hot potato as she sort of squicked me out. As for meds, currently it's hard to get a benzo when everybody who is treating me wants to treat my bipolar first. For a while I think the benzo was a small bandaid for my mental health issues and it really was no longer cutting it. Edited June 27, 2018 by wookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notloki Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, wookie said: If I die senile but comfortable that is okay. Who is going to pay for your care ? Medicare does not pay for long term care. You will have to yourself. Do you have enough money saved for that ? Do you expect your family to take care of you ? Is it fair to take over people's lives ? My mother's Alzheimer's stole 10 years of my brothers and my life as we took care of her at home. The nursing home was just too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 There are some ways to do it to make it less difficult...not easy...but possible. You are right Medicare doesn't cover but Medicaid covers my grandfathers nursing home after he gave them all his money and my family does/will have long term care insurance in case they end up in a nursing home facility. That must have been really difficult taking care of a loved one in that shape, and I can definetly understand why you feel that way about end of life care. Unfortunately though, I think mental illness causes us to prioritize in ways that are really uncomfortable...if a med is currently saving your life you can't really give up on it in favor of the long game, kinda like how people take lithium even though it's hard on the kidneys over time. Sucks, cuz it seems like you can't win either way 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 @wookie On top of the links that @notloki provided, here's another benzo / anticholinergic one. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/two-types-of-drugs-you-may-want-to-avoid-for-the-sake-of-your-brain AED's might as well. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180409103901.htm What about getting on lithium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, argh said: @wookie On top of the links that @notloki provided, here's another benzo / anticholinergic one. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/two-types-of-drugs-you-may-want-to-avoid-for-the-sake-of-your-brain AED's might as well. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180409103901.htm What about getting on lithium? That's always a good option to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper29 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Medicaid will cover long term nursing care, they just take all your assets ... Nobody wants to get Alzheimer's or does it on purpose to screw over their family. As Icerberg said, we have to prioritize in ways that are often uncomfortable. If the choice is between psychosis now or dementia in the future, how do you make that decision? It's not selfish to not want to be psychotic. Sheesh. Lithium has its own side effects. I know someone who almost died from kidney failure on it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 24 minutes ago, Juniper29 said: Medicaid will cover long term nursing care, they just take all your assets ... Nobody wants to get Alzheimer's or does it on purpose to screw over their family. As Icerberg said, we have to prioritize in ways that are often uncomfortable. If the choice is between psychosis now or dementia in the future, how do you make that decision? It's not selfish to not want to be psychotic. Sheesh. Lithium has its own side effects. I know someone who almost died from kidney failure on it. We all have horror stories about one med or another. Lithium has also been used effectively for decades...every pdoc I've talked to (and even a nephrologist when I was first put on it) seem to think if you do the regular blood work and stay within acceptable blood levels you should be ok, and if there is a problem it's typically slow moving enough that you can catch it. Of course there are some where it goes bad...which is why you need to go low and slow...but doesn't every med you start come with a horror story? Not at all discounting @Juniper29 because it's important to know the risks, but I've also known people who have been on it for like 20 years without any perminant damage...comes down to those difficult choices again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper29 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, Iceberg said: We all have horror stories about one med or another. Lithium has also been used effectively for decades...every pdoc I've talked to (and even a nephrologist when I was first put on it) seem to think if you do the regular blood work and stay within acceptable blood levels you should be ok, and if there is a problem it's typically slow moving enough that you can catch it. Of course there are some where it goes bad...which is why you need to go low and slow...but doesn't every med you start come with a horror story? Not at all discounting @Juniper29 because it's important to know the risks, but I've also known people who have been on it for like 20 years without any perminant damage...comes down to those difficult choices again Yeah, I didn't mean to say lithium is bad or scare anyone away from it ... Just that there are risks with any med. I also don't know if the person this happened to was being appropriately monitored or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 I want to thank everyone for their input. I was tried on lithium and will consider it again. I was maybe titrated up too quickly starting at 450 mg for 5 days then 900 mg then onward and upward. Just had such a severe mood reaction that it was scary. Seroquel is working well so far and I know many people who take it. Because of a possible risk of dementia should I stop it? No. I am working with a doctor on it and am definitely being closely monitored. So if another 20 or so years of relatively stability happens because of my meds i'll take it. I'll worry about the other stuff if it ever arises. Can't control everything in life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceberg Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Amen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt07 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) As if we don't have enough to worry about ... I'll just leave these here: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/895997 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22915794 https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/8/4/e019399 Edited June 28, 2018 by jt07 added link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 19 minutes ago, jt07 said: As if we don't have enough to worry about ... I'll just leave these here: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/895997 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22915794 https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/8/4/e019399 Ha. Damed if we do. Damned if we don’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rextasy Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) Your counselor is not a doctor. But many docs are saying this now. I really suspect it's a combination of the weight of the addiction treatment industry, fear by doctors of being seen as overprescribing, and the genuine addcition to and abuse of these drugs. As has already thoroughly been discussed, cause and effect hasn't been show and can't because of the nature of the disease. Edited August 9, 2018 by rextasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychomike Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i90 Without a doubt one of the best studies on this matter ever done. They worked very hard to get to the con founders and eliminate them something other studies have not done. The study was published by BMJ and they are very particular. The results show little to no association with Alzheimer’s or dementia. I’ll place my bets with this very well done prospective study with extensive follow up and testing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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